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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / September 2005

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The Return Of Willie... a story of hope

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Glassman - 15 Aug 2005 23:00 GMT
   It's been 3 years post RP, and sex has been borderline OK. I get hard
only with physical stimulation, never on it's own. I can only keep it
workable if vertical, never prone or it goes away.  Sex only works doggie
style which is a knee killer. All through this time I always felt that
things were still improving, inspite of many that feel that the curve for ER
improvement flattens out after a year or 2.   Very tiny hints of
improvement, nothing ever major. Well with the help of 1/2 a Viagra under my
tongue the other day, I had an erection that could only be described as cold
rolled steel!  It was almost painful. My wife and I were laughing, thinking
about the 36 hour pill, with the 4 hour erection warning.  We're too old for
a workout like that anymore. Willie was back! For the first time I can say
that it was 100% plus. I'm writing this graphic detail to offer hope for
those out there that haven't been so fortunate yet. Don't give up. Keep
practicing. It can still improve with more time to heal.

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

I. P. Freely - 16 Aug 2005 00:10 GMT
Well at least you've got your namesake back! Congrats!!
Now if I could just get completely RID of mine.

I.P. Freely

>    It's been 3 years post RP, and sex has been borderline OK. I get hard
> only with physical stimulation, never on it's own. I can only keep it
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> those out there that haven't been so fortunate yet. Don't give up. Keep
> practicing. It can still improve with more time to heal.
Beverley - 16 Aug 2005 01:03 GMT
Yippee!!!
That is wonderful news.
Bev

>     It's been 3 years post RP, and sex has been borderline OK. I get hard
> only with physical stimulation, never on it's own. I can only keep it
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> those out there that haven't been so fortunate yet. Don't give up. Keep
> practicing. It can still improve with more time to heal.
John Loomis - 16 Aug 2005 02:26 GMT
Yes....Yipeeeeeeee, but no pee in that......
Johnny   That is my real name...
John Loomis
> Yippee!!!
> That is wonderful news.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>> those out there that haven't been so fortunate yet. Don't give up. Keep
>> practicing. It can still improve with more time to heal.
Howard and Hope - 16 Aug 2005 01:53 GMT
Goodluck...It has been 6 months for me since my robot surgery (They said
they took erectile nerves both sides as a PRECAUTION?) well, Willie
remains DEAD to this day...pump just makes it hurt..gave that up...even
Mary and her 5 daughters fail...my wife???? She quit a long time ago.
Yes, can have dry orgasm with mr softy...maybe in 3 years Willie may
arise from the dead ?    Howie
John Loomis - 16 Aug 2005 02:24 GMT
Hey Man........
No apology!
I do 1/3 of viagra, and talk about a nice return....
Yes, it takes time, and me it took 2 years and then some change.
Willie is more like Wily the Fox.....
Sticking his nose out very proud...
I do put a part of a pill under my tongue too.
I use 100 mgs......cut it into pieces......and use 1/3 or so depending on
the time of day and the mood.
Seems to work wonders.
I can have sex without, but seems that you are always wondering if things
are "up" to par down there....

Good News for You J Sinrod..
And Like your name say's////
J Sin "ROD"
Keep it up and tell those folks that worry after 6 months....
I never worried....just kept working at it......
John Loomis,
I smile for you and your wife!  have fun!

>    It's been 3 years post RP, and sex has been borderline OK. I get hard
> only with physical stimulation, never on it's own. I can only keep it
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> those out there that haven't been so fortunate yet. Don't give up. Keep
> practicing. It can still improve with more time to heal.
MH - 16 Aug 2005 03:09 GMT
Thanks for sharing your news, JK....
I'm almost 3 years post op and no real signs of life.  Maybe all is not lost
yet.

Facing another surgery on August 24th... the *C* word again, unfortunately.
Hopefully, it was caught early.  But Willie will be on a back burner for
awhile...

Take care... and enjoy!
MikeH

>>    It's been 3 years post RP, and sex has been borderline OK. I get hard
>> only with physical stimulation, never on it's own. I can only keep it
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>> those out there that haven't been so fortunate yet. Don't give up. Keep
>> practicing. It can still improve with more time to heal.
Peter Headland - 16 Aug 2005 02:31 GMT
Thanks for that - I know it has been less than 6 weeks since my op, but
a fellow gets to wondering if his old friend will ever stand up for him
again and your story does indeed hold out some hope...

I'd also quite like to stop dribbling/squirting when aroused - I do
find it rather distracting (but I guess I'll get used to it if it
doesn't go away)...

Signature

Peter Headland

Aussie Ron - 16 Aug 2005 03:21 GMT
> I'd also quite like to stop dribbling/squirting when aroused - I do
> find it rather distracting (but I guess I'll get used to it if it
> doesn't go away)...

I hope you have better luck than I have, Peter, I've had it since my RRP in
Dec 2001.

Some good news though - the other day for the first time in those years I
experienced some pre-ejaculate after (embarrassed look) spending some time
with internet porn.

All the best and hang in there (so to speak),
Ron ...
I. P. Freely - 16 Aug 2005 05:21 GMT
"Aussie Ron" <wrote
>  I experienced some pre-ejaculate after (embarrassed look) spending some
> time with internet porn.

Some people have complained that this forum qualifies. ;-)

I.P.
Glassman - 16 Aug 2005 03:44 GMT
> Thanks for that - I know it has been less than 6 weeks since my op, but
> a fellow gets to wondering if his old friend will ever stand up for him
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> find it rather distracting (but I guess I'll get used to it if it
> doesn't go away)...

 That's where the good news ends.... 3 years and still squirt when aroused.
I go bathroom several times during fooling around to remain dry.

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Peter Headland - 16 Aug 2005 02:38 GMT
BTW, for those of you who have not yet visited JKS's web sites, I
strongly recommend them. The stained glass is really lovely and the
Coney Island pieces fun and moving by turns.

Signature

Peter Headland

pmoore11@columbus.rr.com - 16 Aug 2005 19:38 GMT
Congratulations, JK...  Borderline sex sucks...so, you give me hope..  All
the suggestive talk on here about "3 times the climax as before" ...  "two
hours after RP I screwed the nurse" (of course, I'm being facetious (lol)….
I just haven't had anything close to what is was like pre-op…. but, I
seriously doubt if many of us in this “club nobody wanted to join” do..
And, I'm not about to stick a needle in my dick no matter how much I'd like
to get a hard-on…  (None of the 3 sex candies do anything (well, not much)
for me yet, either..)

Now at 9 months post-op, I did have a “dry dream” (lol) the other night
which woke me up - which reminded me I needed to “go”… so, when I reached
down, through half closed sleepy eyes, to “aim” over the rim I was
astonished, “OH, MY GOD!!”  I yelled out… as my hand grasped what seemed
like a member of the family from the ancient past…  Which vanished
completely with the first squirt….  “sh.t!!!” I yelled, again.   (It was
like getting a hole in one in golf - and, nobody around to see it… lol)

“What's all the chatter down there, old man?  Who are you talking to?”  
("You wouldn't believe me if I told you," I mumbled under my breath….. "but,
I know who would…" (lol)

Thanks for the perspiration er inspiration, JK,

Paul

 Age: 63
10/04: PSA = 10.4, T1C, Gleason 7 (“in a few samples”)
11/04: RP “looks like we got it” - sparing one and a half bundles of nerves
05/05: PSA = less than 0.1
08/05: Good bladder control - no erections (yet)
Steve U - 16 Aug 2005 22:46 GMT
Paul,
Your declaration "And, I'm not about to stick a needle in my dick no
matter how much I'd like to get a hard-on..." caught my attention. You
might want to reconsider. Using the Gauge #31 5mm Ultrafine needles, it
hurts less than being attacked by a well endowed mosquito. The trade
off is a split second of mild discomfort for an hour of pure delight!
I've used them so many times, that I'm already breathing hard when I
draw up the injection. And I am a real sissy when it comes to pain!
Steve U
pmoore11@columbus.rr.com - 18 Aug 2005 15:46 GMT
Thanks for the advice, Steve.    I have given serious consideration to the
shots, but to be quite frank there is more to my reluctance than just the
pain.  Even more than the fact that they are so damned expensive…  Not all
SEs of this recovery process are physical…  or, reside in us survivors….

On a lighter note, where else can a SIG of perf_ked strangers (and, we are
(lol) talk about our private parts and thoughts as casual as discussing the
merits of a good bottle of vintage port?   (This newsgroup is awesome.)

However, I can't enjoy that bottle of port anymore - because of the
increased depression (had been declared clinically depressed prior to RP -
but, mildly so) created by the removal of my “manhood” - which wasn't
totally unexpected.  What was surprising was the fact that I became more
reliant on the daily consumption of alcohol…  So much so that 3 weeks ago I
joined a little “breakfast club” called AA..

I'm now cancer free, 21 days sober - and, back to selfishly thinking about
my dick… (Sorry, Bev, I know I'm a “tad” crass… (lol)

(Has anybody else slipped into my pattern above… that would care to admit
it??)

Paul
Steve Kramer - 19 Aug 2005 21:41 GMT
I think all of us were depressed at some point during the diagnosis,
prognosis, treatment, side-effect process.  As with all things human, we all
got it at different times and at different levels.  But, for those in the
top of the 'bell curve', I'd guess there was moderate depression shortly
after the diagnosis and lasting through the first months after initial
treatment.

As far as alcohol, that's probably another DNA strand issue.  I really,
really like a good beer when it's hot; or a Manhattan or Maker's Mark when
I'm keyed up.  But, after five days of being keyed up and taking half a
bottle of booze, I sometimes go months without another drink.

Fingernails and back molars are my vices.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> Thanks for the advice, Steve.    I have given serious consideration to the
> shots, but to be quite frank there is more to my reluctance than just the
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> totally unexpected.  What was surprising was the fact that I became more
> reliant on the daily consumption of alcohol.  So much so that 3 weeks ago
I
> joined a little "breakfast club" called AA..
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Paul
Glassman - 17 Aug 2005 05:35 GMT
> Now at 9 months post-op, I did have a "dry dream" (lol) the other night
> which woke me up - which reminded me I needed to "go". so, when I reached
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> "What's all the chatter down there, old man?  Who are you talking to?"
> ("You wouldn't believe me if I told you," I mumbled under my breath...
"but,
> I know who would." (lol)
>
> Thanks for the perspiration er inspiration, JK,
>
> Paul

  Paul this is probably the only place you can tell this story and have me
say, "been there, done that". We all understand. From your signs of life I
can tell you that you are on the right, if slow, path to a good time. Keep
practising. Some may think me nuts, but I am a "firm" believer in at least 1
or 2 orgasms a day. Call me compulsive, but so far it's working.

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

judamd@aol.com - 17 Aug 2005 15:42 GMT
I'm a "believer" too, just not a doer.  Wow, 1 or 2 orgasms a day.  I'd
be a bloody pulp if I tried to match that.  Not uncommon in teen years,
but not now.  Good for you.
Dave Perry
JK@work - 17 Aug 2005 19:39 GMT
> I'm a "believer" too, just not a doer.  Wow, 1 or 2 orgasms a day.  I'd
> be a bloody pulp if I tried to match that.  Not uncommon in teen years,
> but not now.  Good for you.
> Dave Perry

   It's not that "hard" to do. You don't need to abuse yourself, at least I
don't. Some guys need the real thing, but I'm lucky that memories and porn
work fine. Don't forget this is strictly for medical reasons. LOL

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
http://www.sinrodstudios.com/
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories/

Ron B - 17 Aug 2005 23:02 GMT
Good goin', J.K.

:-)

Ron B.

Chicago
Gogarty - 18 Aug 2005 00:40 GMT
>I'm a "believer" too, just not a doer.  Wow, 1 or 2 orgasms a day.  I'd
>be a bloody pulp if I tried to match that.  Not uncommon in teen years,
>but not now.  Good for you.
>Dave Perry

"When I was young and in  my prime
I used to do it all the time.
But now that I am old and gray,
I only do it once a day."
Glassman - 20 Aug 2005 05:43 GMT
> I'm a "believer" too, just not a doer.  Wow, 1 or 2 orgasms a day.  I'd
> be a bloody pulp if I tried to match that.  Not uncommon in teen years,
> but not now.  Good for you.
> Dave Perry

   I find that for whatever reason the pain that I used to have with
multiple ejaculation orgasms, is not happening now. Maybe some of the pain
area nerves are still asleep?
Signature


JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Beverley - 17 Aug 2005 22:26 GMT
Compulsive???
ROTFLMAO!
Bev

> > Now at 9 months post-op, I did have a "dry dream" (lol) the other night
> > which woke me up - which reminded me I needed to "go". so, when I reached
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> practising. Some may think me nuts, but I am a "firm" believer in at least 1
> or 2 orgasms a day. Call me compulsive, but so far it's working.
Steve U - 16 Aug 2005 23:01 GMT
JK,
Excellent news! By the way. two years is not the finish line. There is
a short article in the Journal of Sexual Medicine Vol 1 (Supplement)
2004, page 33 by  by Rabani, Patel, Scardino (all at Sloan Kettering)
and Mullhall ( at Cornell) that "After Nerve Sparing RP, erectile
function continues to improve up to 4 years postoperatively." I saw
Dr.Mulhall this summer, and he told me continued improvement up to
three years out is not at all uncommon. Certainly it is always welcome!

Steve U
Buttercup's Dad - 17 Aug 2005 23:17 GMT
Walsh's book said 4 years too.  I am at 2 with no sign of life.  Willie has
not forgiven me for the trauma I put him through I guess.  He just lays
there and dribbles.

> JK,
> Excellent news! By the way. two years is not the finish line. There is
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Steve U
MH - 17 Aug 2005 23:57 GMT
> Walsh's book said 4 years too.  I am at 2 with no sign of life.  Willie
> has
> not forgiven me for the trauma I put him through I guess.  He just lays
> there and dribbles.

Same here, David... but it has been almost 3 years!

MikeH
Cancer2x - 26 Aug 2005 21:34 GMT
> Same here, David... but it has been almost 3 years!
>
> MikeH
****>> 9 going on 10 for me.  Nerve-sparing RRP in 1996.  Nothing came
back - no erections, no orgasms, zip.

Cancer2x
Steve U - 26 Aug 2005 22:45 GMT
Cancer2x,
I'm sorry for your trouble. Sounds brutal. Have you tried the shots, or
a VED, or considered an implant? I love the shots ( I still use them
even now that pills really work), could get used to a VED, and would
definitely get the implant if the other choices didn't work.
Steve U
Heelas - 27 Aug 2005 00:01 GMT
I am surprised at the lack or orgasms. They seem unrelated to the erections.

Robert

> Cancer2x,
> I'm sorry for your trouble. Sounds brutal. Have you tried the shots, or
> a VED, or considered an implant? I love the shots ( I still use them
> even now that pills really work), could get used to a VED, and would
> definitely get the implant if the other choices didn't work.
> Steve U
Cancer2x - 29 Aug 2005 15:37 GMT
Anorgasmia happens with some RPs.  The British Medical Journal had an
article that stated, although not common,  it could happen in as much as 10%
of men with RP.  All I know is that for the first few years I kept trying,
and got a few bad 'burning' sensations in the beginning.  then even that
stopped.  Finally, after maybe hundreds of attempts, I stopped trying.  I
gave up on the erections, but hoped at least to be able to have an orgasm,
or the sensations of orgasm - something!

Now, after almost ten years, it is a moot point, I guess.

With any of these treatment options, you roll the dice, regardless of the
Pollyanna statements from Surgeons who want you on the table.  Anything can
happen.

Cancer2x

>I am surprised at the lack or orgasms. They seem unrelated to the
>erections.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>> definitely get the implant if the other choices didn't work.
>> Steve U
Cancer2x - 29 Aug 2005 15:41 GMT
> Cancer2x,
> I'm sorry for your trouble. Sounds brutal. Have you tried the shots, or
> a VED, or considered an implant?

*****>> Thanks. It has not been easy. Ruined my marriage.  I did try the VED
a couple of times - didn't work, and was painful as hell.  I threw it out.
I tried Viagra once, Cialis once, and Levitra once - no responses outside of
headaches and stuffy noses.  I will not stab my dick with a needle (!).  As
far as an implant, there is NO way I am ever letting another person anywhere
near my crotch with anything sharp ever again.

If I had the choice to do over again, I would NEVER have an RP!

I would take back my prostate, cancer and all, in a heartbeat.

Cancer2x
Ron B - 29 Aug 2005 20:38 GMT
I sorta hate to refer to you as Cancer 2x but as long as you post
it...I'l go with it.

I understand no erections (I'm at 5 mos. post op without them) but
orgasms might be possible.

I know from your post that there is a certain pecentage that don't have
orgasms...but maybe...just maybe...with lube...and manual stimulation
and adult video...you might come close.

That is my hope for you...not a prescription.

Try as best you can...and then please...post again...we all want to
help.

Ron B.

Chicago
Cancer2x - 29 Aug 2005 21:06 GMT
>I sorta hate to refer to you as Cancer 2x but as long as you post
> it...I'l go with it.

*****> I use that nick as I have two unrelated primary types of cancer -
Prostate Cancer and Soft Tissue Sarcoma.

> I understand no erections (I'm at 5 mos. post op without them) but
> orgasms might be possible.
>
> I know from your post that there is a certain pecentage that don't have
> orgasms...but maybe...just maybe...with lube...and manual stimulation
> and adult video...you might come close.

*****>> Been there, done that, for a few years, many times. Nada.

> That is my hope for you...not a prescription.
>
> Try as best you can...and then please...post again...we all want to
> help.

*****>> I tried two years ago again for a bit.  At this point, it is moot.

Thanks for the response -

Cancer2x
Steve U - 29 Aug 2005 22:37 GMT
Cancer2x,
If you have not tried the shots, you might me suffering more than
necessary. They don't work for everybody, but when they are good, they
can be wonderful. I've used them hundreds of times, even after the
pills started to kick in, and even when I got enough erection back to
get by with nothing. The injection hurts, at most, about 1/3 as much as
as a fingerstick blood test. Once you get the medication and dose
right, you might be able to be as rigid as you ever were, for an hour
or so. A few months post op, my wife commented" You know, I don't feel
sorry for you any more. Every time you get the shot stuff out, you have
a big smile!" It's true.
Steve U
kh - 02 Sep 2005 20:00 GMT
> I tried Viagra once, Cialis once, and Levitra once - no responses outside of
> headaches and stuffy noses.  

You might try Vitamin-V again.  While I went the Rad route, I also
had two doses of Lupron-Depot.   Things went flat for almost a year
so I understand your frustration.

During the Lupron time, I experimented with Vitamin-V and had some
good results.  I did not like the blue-headache either.
 

What I found was that the timing was critical and as the Uro said,
the vitamins don't work on their own, you have to want to do it and
you have to work at it.  

It's not enough to think "happy thoughts".  It takes the right
"touch" in addition to visualization, setting the mood, an eager and
squealing partner.   You can't just pop the pill and go.  

The way I look at it, the medical procedures left us (surgery and
rad both) sorta like the way women are.  

You remember when you were younger and if a woman said, "you
ready?" well, you were ready.  

But most times, it seemed to take hours and flowers and dinner
and poetry to get "her" ready.   Well, I figure that's the way we
are now.

Since I went Rad, I'm having a comparatively easy time.  Some
mornings I wake up "swinging heavy".   I get firm enough for
penetration.  I don't last as long as I used to, only 2 or 3
minutes.

I suspect the problem on the Rad side isn't that the radiation
damages the nerves or the valves, it's that without a good load of
prostatic fluid, we don't get the "If I don't empty this soon, I'll
go nuts" signals.  

So it takes a little more effort but then, that's part of the fun.

Like most rad-graduates, I can function without vitamins but a
little helps.  


Glassman - 04 Sep 2005 01:49 GMT
> > Cancer2x,
> > I'm sorry for your trouble. Sounds brutal. Have you tried the shots, or
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> far as an implant, there is NO way I am ever letting another person anywhere
> near my crotch with anything sharp ever again.

  So few tries at helping yourself, makes alot of us scratch our heads in
wonder? Your choice.

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Reuben Rothstein - 04 Sep 2005 07:41 GMT
For most of the men, after a long marriage,
under pressure to "perform", home is not the best place
to get Willie re-started. One needs an understanding lover.
Anyway - it shouldn't be done in a once in a while trials,
but rather a continues effort.
You must be relaxed in an erotic atmosphere for a whole week.
Cialis is a weak one, try the others, 1 full strength pill every other
day.
Even if you don't have a woman every day - help the organ to get blood
in.

Good luck

>> > Cancer2x,
>> > I'm sorry for your trouble. Sounds brutal. Have you tried the shots, or
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>   So few tries at helping yourself, makes alot of us scratch our heads in
>wonder? Your choice.
Cancer2x - 07 Sep 2005 16:34 GMT
>   So few tries at helping yourself, makes alot of us scratch our heads in
> wonder? Your choice.

*****> Was WAY more than a 'few' tries. Went through a course of each of the
drugs - multiple attempts.  Tried the VED multiple times to no avail, and
much pain. Tried the Viagra and Levitra again, even - several attempts each.
Nothing happened.

It has been now almost ten years.  I think that any hopes I had for the
recovery of function are officially dashed.  I will not stab myself, nor
will I ever let a doctor anywhere near my crotch with anything sharp ever
again.

I was 49 at surgery, and was all but guaranteed that erections would return
as I was previously healthy and active.  They have no idea whether or not
anything will return, they just say it to get you on the table, as most who
do enough research realize that surgery is about the same as any other
therapy in outcomes, but far worse in side-effects.  No one would ever agree
to it if surgoens told the truth at their patient consultations.

If possible, I would take back my prostate, cancer and all, in a New York
minute.

Cancer2x
I. P. Freely - 07 Sep 2005 17:11 GMT
> I would take back my prostate, cancer and all, in a New York minute.

Was it the docs, or the cancer, that ended your sex life? i.e., Did they
HAVE to sacrifice your sex life to save your life?

Did you inform them in advance that you valued the former over the latter? I
made my preferences crystal clear, in writing, before surgery, and gave them
PAGES of thoroughly researched criteria/preferences when the topic of
adjuvant hormone therapy came up.

Did you spend a few hundred hours intensely researching PC in general, your
particular case, and its treatments before choosing your treatment? If not,
maybe you could get a little satisfaction from haranguing others to do
exactly that, because few docs  tell us enough to make a decision like that.
I had a whole team of good docs who never rushed me and spent hours
answering my questions, but that was no substitute for studying a dozen
books and spending hundreds of hours online here and on responsible
websites.

How does a Noo Yawk minute compare to a Bahston minute?  ;-)

I.P.
Cancer2x - 07 Sep 2005 18:08 GMT
>> I would take back my prostate, cancer and all, in a New York minute.
>
> Was it the docs, or the cancer, that ended your sex life?

******>> It was both, in my view.

i.e., Did they
> HAVE to sacrifice your sex life to save your life?

*****>> They did not - one nerve was supposedly "saved", and should have
allowed for erections again after appropriate healing time.  I am not so
sure they were as skilled in the technique back then as today, maybe, but
certainly this was NOT the expected outcome!

> Did you inform them in advance that you valued the former over the latter?

*****>> Many, many times.  I was admonished not to worry, it would all be
okay, I was young, theoretically confined cancer, one nerve spared. Nooooo
problem!

> Did you spend a few hundred hours intensely researching PC in general,
> your particular case, and its treatments before choosing your treatment?

******>> Yes, in fact, I did.  Took five months of researching and
agonizing. Seeds were too new at the time, with not enough history (and no
one here to do them), and the docs I saw ALL claimed they could do this and
still save my sexual function.  I trust all docs now about as far as I can
toss a cement truck .

> How does a Noo Yawk minute compare to a Bahston minute?  ;-)

*****>> My docs were in Bahston .... and were full of themselves, methinks.
If I HAD to have surgery today, I would NOT be in Boston! I would hasten to
Baltimore or Sloan Kettering.  Otherwise, Photon Beam, and/or HDR at Loma
Linda.  I would never, ever, have this surgery again.  Especially where the
long-term outcomes are now so similar, but with differing side effect
profiles.

All therapies are a crap shoot in PCa, but surgery has the most known
morbidities.

After these nine, long, miserable sexless years, I would *definitely* take
back my prostate again, cancer and all!

Cancer2x
Ron B - 07 Sep 2005 20:08 GMT
You've proven to me that you're no dummy.

You did a lot of research and made a decision. You say that you'd never
have done it ...if you knew what you know now.

Fear is MY middle name (It's really 'Frank', but the 'F' might as WELL
be fear, considering how I approached my RRP surgery. :-))

The guys here have held my hand, taught me plenty, and continue to
listen and offer support..for which I am most grateful.

I'm only 5 months after RRP and though I don't have erections...though I
take Cialis 20mg every other day (as per my doc)...I DO have orgasms.

Using videos and manual stimulation, I have hope.

Please believe that I want only the best for you.

(I am SURE that the guys here feel the same)

Steve (SMU) is an expert on the injections...and though I shudder at the
thought...I kinda think that if things went as long as you describe...I
might consider them.

As afraid as I am...I might try ANYTHING if I felt as bad as you
describe.

Don't do ANYTHING now...just read the posts and digest what you will.

I think that things can improve...though I can't be sure.

I totally understand your resignation.

Just hang in there...read the posts...and say whatever you feel.

No harm in doing THAT.

We're all here to help...and if we can't...so BE it.

I understand your feelings about docs so I have no agenda to push.

Just come here and bitch...maybe you'll feel better just saying how you
feel.

It's OK.

I wish you the very best,

Ron F. B.

Chicago
I. P. Freely - 08 Sep 2005 02:46 GMT
"Cancer2x" <wrote...

>  I trust all docs now about as far as I can toss a cement truck.

I've gotten that way, too, at least until I'm with one long enough to
evaluate him/her and place increased trust. And at some point we must trust
one if we want to get cured and time won't do it.

> If I HAD to have surgery today, I would NOT be in Boston! I would hasten
> to Baltimore or Sloan Kettering.

My surgeon/urologist/oncologist is a S-K product with an excellent
reputation. He was certain I'd be dry within weeks. I'm not, and we're
approaching a year. I suspect there are still some unknowns, that Walsh's
approach to discovering the erection nerves needs to be extended to the
continence system.

I.P.
Steve Kramer - 08 Sep 2005 14:50 GMT
I would certainly be interested to find whether your could bring back your
sex life.  Obviously, it would take some mind alteration.

My willie has been dead for more than two years and all but dead for almost
five.  But, I do wonder about the future... about a cure... about life after
Lupron....  Can the beast in willie be awakened after so long?

As for your situation, I think you could possibly be happy again, but you'll
likely have to lose the needle phobia to do it.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> >> I would take back my prostate, cancer and all, in a New York minute.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> Cancer2x
Glassman - 09 Sep 2005 05:27 GMT
> >   So few tries at helping yourself, makes alot of us scratch our heads in
> > wonder? Your choice.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> much pain. Tried the Viagra and Levitra again, even - several attempts each.
> Nothing happened.

  Sorry but your post said a couple or a few times, making it sound like a
very short effort for so many years. You can still have a sex life.
Different, but still good. Out there is a good woman that loves oral sex,
drinks like a fish, and has delicate ankles. I just got a batch of porno
DVD's. Let's see.....  10 DVD's at 4 orgasms each.....

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Ron B - 09 Sep 2005 14:16 GMT
"Out there is a good woman that loves oral sex, drinks like a fish, and
has delicate ankles. I just got a batch of porno DVD's. Let's see.....
10 DVD's at 4 orgasms each....."

:-)
Steve Kramer - 18 Aug 2005 11:41 GMT
Take heart, David.  Mine took 2½ to forgive me.

.... at which time I showed my appreciation by microwaving him....

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> Walsh's book said 4 years too.  I am at 2 with no sign of life.  Willie has
> not forgiven me for the trauma I put him through I guess.  He just lays
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> >
> > Steve U
 
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