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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / August 2005Trimix Experimentation Update.
Tried them all except the implant so far. First MUSE. Results not a great erection and discomfort (and expensive - $150.00 for six). Then tried Caverject. Nice hard erection but quite uncomfortable (I try not to use the term "painful" but it bordered on that). Then got a Rejoyn pump. That worked great to produce the erection but I am apparently allergic to the material that the rings are made of because I get bad skin irritation when using them. Tried a different lubricant just in case that was the problem, but no difference. Never got to the third ring, working from the largest to the smallest, because rings one and two did not maintain the erection. So the pump sits in the closet. Will try that again if I can ever find rings made of a different material. Then to trimix prescribed by an ED specialist. Works fine but like the Caverject is very uncomfortable. Hard to enjoy intercourse like that. Last stop was bimix. Nada there. No pain, but also no erection even at a higher doseage. Back to the drawing board. Starting to think about the implant. Now trying the trimix again, but at a lower dose. I use insulin needles and do not remember the conversion from ml to units, but I was using 50 units on the insulin scale. At least that is what the pharmacist told me was the right dosage for what the doctor had prescribed. On the second round with trimix I tried 30 units first. That did not produce an erection sufficiently stiff for penetration. No pain though. On the second try I used 40 units. Stiffer erection but not successful at penetration. Some discomfort, but not much. Looks like it will take the full 50 units to get where I need to be. And for those new to this and facing making some decisions, let me again say that the injection itself does not hurt. I can feel the needle going in, but it is not painful. Avoid the veins though. I hear that can hurt. So, the insurance here does cover the implant surgery. What to do??? > Tried them all except the implant so far. First MUSE. Results not a > great erection and discomfort (and expensive - $150.00 for six). Then tried [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > in, but it is not painful. Avoid the veins though. I hear that can hurt. > So, the insurance here does cover the implant surgery. What to do??? I don't have any personal experience, but I've seen it said that the pain goes away with continued use. Perhaps you should ask your doctor about that. Supposedly men who have had implants inserted are happy with them, but it is an irreversiable step and perhaps you should make sure you exhaust all other possibilities first. Hello David, I was in a similiar boat many years ago. I had RP when I was 49 in 1999. It took me 2 years to finally achieve some standard of function. At first Viagra was worthless...The pump was like a toy, and was a novelty and sorta worked and sorta didnt. My Dr. gave me prostaglandin. I used a diabetic needle and kept a diary sorta..... I think over about 35 or more injections, I was sometimes pleased and other times sore and hurting. The best time to use the injection for me was in the morning. One could walk off the stuffiness, and pain if it occured better than laying in bed at night tossing and turning. I tell you I had an erection for 2 to 3 hours sometimes....that was no fun! Anyway, after 2 years and trials and errors, I tried viagra again, and things started.......hum..... I am about back to 85% now without anything and this is 5.5 years later.I can actually get 100 % sometimes and with Viagra, about 1/3 of a 100 mgs pill I get top results. So, I had one nerve spared, and feel that I am doing really good now. Good wishes, and keep trying.....Things to come back to life....I know! John Loomis > Tried them all except the implant so far. First MUSE. Results not a > great erection and discomfort (and expensive - $150.00 for six). Then [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > in, but it is not painful. Avoid the veins though. I hear that can hurt. > So, the insurance here does cover the implant surgery. What to do??? Always great info here. I'd like to ask...and David S...you may want to add something... About injections, when the guys mention 'pain'...what do they mean? They usually say that the 'injection' is not as bad as we would initially think...but that there is pain upon erection. What is the pain? Pressure? Throbbing? Sharp aches? Dull? See my point? David S. wanted to call it 'discomfort'...just short of pain. What kind of discomfort? Thanks so much as always, Ron B. Chicago Hi Ron: Two points I guess. The first involves getting over the idea of sticking a needle in your penis. That was a problem for me for awhile. The first shot was administered by a male R.N., so that is when I found out that it did not hurt at all. It helps to put pressure on the penis with one hand as the injection is made from the other side. Not a lot of pressure. Just hold it firmly. On the erection "discomfort", that for me was pressure and it hurt worse when the organ was touched. That makes it kind of tough to have intercourse. The pressure "pain" was constant, not a throbbing hurt. Once in it was okay, but getting there was a problem. The discomfort, pain, pressure, whatever, was there until the drug began to wear off. It was uncomfortable to even sit and there was no way to put on underwear until it began to subside. I know that is kind of unclear on what I mean. Let's say I would take the "discomfort" of the erection any day over a tooth ache. A bad charlie horse is "painful". Hope that helps describe better what I mean. Thank you. David S. (limp and leaking) > Always great info here. > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Chicago David S And Ron B, I've used the shots hundreds of times. I started on caverject impulse system. The needles it comes with are way too big, and there is not much flexibility on the dose. Getting the dose right was a challenge. Also, after orgasm the erection hurt like hell for 2-3 hours. It felt like being stung by a bunch of bees al over my penis. I swithced to smaller needles and to bimix with good results. Several months later I tried caverject again and it didn't hurt any longer. Nothing works for everybody, but I think most people give up way too soon on the shots. With practice, the injection is very quick and close to painless. Having an erection that is like a rock for up to 2 hours is worth considerable suffering. I think using shots on a regular basis helped get my erection back. Pre-op I could not have sex twice with the same erection. Now it is not unusual. The seduction is the limiting factor, not the erection. Steve U Hi Steve: I agree with you that a lot of guys give up too soon. Several here have reported that the discomfort is less the longer one uses the injections. For the time being I intend to stick with the trimix, so I will report if that is my experience over time. Thank you. David S. > <snip> Nothing works for > everybody, but I think most people give up way too soon on the shots. > Steve U > I started on caverject impulse > system. The needles it comes with are way too big, and there is not > much flexibility on the dose. My doc told me not to use their needles but to get the diabetes hypos. They worked very well.  SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum Steve Kramer I agree with your doc. The diabetic needles are MUCH better. The smallest I have found are BD Ultrafine Gauge #31 5mm. They are also the best! Steve U They gave me insulin syringes, but I do not know the gauge. The first had real short needles and worked great. The second set I got had a longer needle and when I tried to insert it all the way I hit something hard, urethra??, and had to back off some. It did not hurt, but I had to learn to insert those only so far. > Steve Kramer I agree with your doc. The diabetic needles are MUCH > better. The smallest I have found are BD Ultrafine Gauge #31 5mm. They > are also the best! > Steve U > ... Then got a Rejoyn pump. That > worked great to produce the erection but I am apparently allergic to the > material that the rings are made of because I get bad skin irritation when > using them. ... I have no experience with this, but I wonder if it's worth a phone call to the manufacturer. Maybe they have other rings or can advise you on a lubricant that will keep the ring from contact - or something. I'm able to get by with Viagra, but I've thought that if and when that's not enough, the pump might be the least invasive and least radical of the next things to try. It might be worth making some phone calls and experimenting to see if you can get it to work better. Alan I have not been able to contact Rejoyn and began to wonder if they are still in business? They have, or at least had, a customer service email on their web site which I tried to use to pose my questions, but never got a response. When I go to www.rejoyn.com I get some marketing company. There are phone numbers there, so I will try that next. Thank you. > > ... Then got a Rejoyn pump. That > > worked great to produce the erection but I am apparently allergic to the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Alan David S.: When you tried Caverject do you recall the dosage? I tried it at 20 mcg. and got very little action, just a sensation that reminded me of the good ole days. My urologist said that Caverject can be used at dosages up to 40 mcg., but warned me about an overreaction. Since I have 20 mcg on hand I am nervous about one stick much less two for experimentation. I also assume the discomfort from the drug would increase, but perhaps not. I have tried the Osbon pump and it works, but I am not allegic to the rings. If you haven't called the manufacturer and discussed the problem you may want to. It is possible, that they have options they don't advertise with the literature. I found that Osbon was helpful and did have various equipment options I was not aware. Just an FYI Mike > Tried them all except the implant so far. First MUSE. Results not a > great erection and discomfort (and expensive - $150.00 for six). Then tried [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > in, but it is not painful. Avoid the veins though. I hear that can hurt. > So, the insurance here does cover the implant surgery. What to do??? Mike, Caverject can be purchased in vials containing up to 40 mcg. so there is no need for two needle sticks to take the dose higher than 20. Another benefit of buying it in vials instead of already in a syringe is that you can use much smaller needles, plus, any medication left over can be stored in the refrigerator for next time. Steve U I went with the Rejoyn pump because of the lower cost, but I can see where the customer service support from Osbon is worth the extra cost. I'm sorry, I do not remember the Caverject dosage. The nurse, a male, did everything including drawing up the saline (or whatever the liquid was). At the time I was still concerned with the injection itself, but got over that fast when I knew it did not hurt at all. Thank you. > David S.: > When you tried Caverject do you recall the dosage? I tried it at 20 [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > in, but it is not painful. Avoid the veins though. I hear that can hurt. > > So, the insurance here does cover the implant surgery. What to do??? Boy! We sure go to an awful lot of trouble, expense and pain just to get an erection. How much fun can sex be when almost by definition there can be no spontaneity? That has always been my larger problem with any method, including Viagra and even Levitra. Cialis I am now trying. That 36-hour window shows promise. But the expense, the expense... Gogarty, Regarding lost spontaneity, I've learned to savor the the anticipation when I know it is a "shot night!" The return on investment for drug expenses is also better than for everything else I buy. Steve U |
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