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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / July 2005Is this a good sign?
Last night my wife and I were having an intimate cuddle in bed. There was no contact with my genitals (still got the catheter in there and it's less than a week since surgery). After a while, I had a sensation of warmth and some faint twitching from my penis. When I took a look, it was noticeably larger than "normal" (since surgery): longer, more filled out, maybe 20% bigger overall. Definitely not anything you could ever call an erection, but some small signs of erectile activity. I fiddled briefly with the tip, but got no noticeable pleasure sensation and it didn't get any bigger. The presence of the catheter is pretty inhibiting to any serious effort in that direction (and obviously I don't want to go blind/grow hair on the palms of my hands :-) ). My question is, from the experience of those of you who have had surgery, should this give me hope? Or is this very small level of erectile function quite usual, but meaningless? Or am I just imagining the whole episode? I know a lot of you use phrases like "no action at all", but do you really mean no response whatsoever, or just nothing useful?  SignaturePeter Headland > Last night my wife and I were having an intimate cuddle in bed. There > was no contact with my genitals (still got the catheter in there and [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > erectile function quite usual, but meaningless? Or am I just imagining > the whole episode? Well, something is better than nothing, but my advice is to stop thinking about this until the catheter comes out. Also, ask your doctor how long after surgery you should wait before trying sexual activity. My doctor wasn't concerned about my having erections with the catheter in place, but the mechanics of sex could open up something that was sewed up and you don't want to chance that. > I know a lot of you use phrases like "no action at all", but do you > really mean no response whatsoever, or just nothing useful? > Well, something is better than nothing, but my advice is > to stop thinking about this until the catheter comes out After several hour's thought, I keep finding this reads the same way - patronising and unhelpful. "Well, something is better than nothing"? Excuse me? And where exactly do you get off telling me what I should be thinking about (for my own good, I suppose)? For the record (and as I thought I made pretty clear), this was something that happened spontaneously, not something I was "thinking about". I also thought I made it pretty clear that we weren't "trying sexual activity" when it happened. It would have been much more useful if you had chosen to answer my question and describe your experience (I know that you had at least partial erections with the catheter in, but I don't know whether that translated into high grade potency within a few weeks of surgery). I am hoping we will get enough answers across the spectrum to see if there is any pattern, for good or ill, to these early twitches; your experience may well be "as good as it ever gets" and could provide a useful end point to that spectrum. SignaturePeter Headland >>Well, something is better than nothing, but my advice is >>to stop thinking about this until the catheter comes out [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Excuse me? And where exactly do you get off telling me what I should be > thinking about (for my own good, I suppose)? Sorry for the impression I made. I didn't mean to be patronizing in any way. Needless to say we have all had such concerns. All I meant is that any response with the catheter in is probably a good sign, but it may also be misleading. We all differ, but I think it is safe to say that that most of us have experienced ups and downs in this area---no puns intended. It is important not to read to much into early signs of recovery. (I have a friend whose doctor reported he had an erection on the operating table shortly after the surgery, but this turned out to be a false sign.) On the other hand, it is also important not to be discouraged if nothing further happens for months afterward. Some of us are lucky and have erections within weeks of the surgery, but generally it takes quite a bit longer. Also, if erections return, they may vary in intensity from week to week, so you shouldn't get excited if you still have some problems. The usual rule of thumb is that it takes most men between 3 months and a year, but it can take up to four years. I took me 18 months despite some early signs of the kind your describe. From my own experience, I think the best advice is to relax, concentrate on trying to resume sexual actvity---as soon as your doctor thinks appropriate---by whatever means works, and let the erections take care of themselves. At the same time I have to say that this advice is probably impossible to follow. I certainly had a hard time with the same concerns. But it is better to try to follow it as much as you can. > For the record (and as I thought I made pretty clear), this was > something that happened spontaneously, not something I was "thinking > about". I also thought I made it pretty clear that we weren't "trying > sexual activity" when it happened. I did understand that. > It would have been much more useful if you had chosen to answer my > question and describe your experience (I know that you had at least > partial erections with the catheter in, but I don't know whether that > translated into high grade potency within a few weeks of surgery). I wouldn't call them partial erections, but I did have some sort of response. But they didn't translate into anything at first. I used a pump successfully for 18 months before some sort of erections arose. I suspect that had more to do with my age, 67, at surgery than anything else. I am > hoping we will get enough answers across the spectrum to see if there > is any pattern, for good or ill, to these early twitches; your > experience may well be "as good as it ever gets" and could provide a > useful end point to that spectrum. It would be interesting to see what repsonses you get. But I hope you won't get discouraged if you detect a pattern, and then you seem not to be following it. > Sorry for the impression I made. I didn't mean > to be patronizing in any way. Sir, you are a true gentleman and I apologize for doubting you. SignaturePtere Headland It hurts me just to think about having an erection while the catheter is still in! But good for you. I think Leonard is right though. Wait for the catheter to be removed before experimenting. In my case, "no action at all" means just that. Nada. No sign of life. No swelling. And also, two years post op, the feeling is not there like it used to be. I do not think, however, that my experience is typical. A lot of men have reported that after a few months they are back to normal in terms of the sensation. Good luck. David S. > I know a lot of you use phrases like "no action at all", but do you > really mean no response whatsoever, or just nothing useful? > It hurts me just to think about having an erection > while the catheter is still in! This and the many comments about "counting the hours" and the like, lead me to believe that people's catheter experiences vary quite widely. While I find the cath. a nuisance, and it has an annoying habit of blocking off when I lie down or even recline my chair (causing me to have to wake up several times a night to "pee" by standing up until it drains), it isn't painful - I really don't notice it most of the time. Apart from the obvious concerns about straining tissue that is meant to be healing, the only reason I would really *not* want to get a full erection with a catheter in is that there is not enough slack (hm, that sounds more boastful than I intended :-) ). SignaturePeter Headland No, I think on the subject of the catheter, the opinion has been fairly constant. By the time we got rid of it, we were oh so happy it was gone. Give it another week or so to see if you are the exception. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum > > It hurts me just to think about having an erection > > while the catheter is still in! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > erection with a catheter in is that there is not enough slack (hm, that > sounds more boastful than I intended :-) ). I have to admit that I did not have "pain" with the catheter (until they removed it!), but I surely did hate that thing. Unfortunately I do not think I will ever have the chance to find out for myself if having an erection with one in hurts or not. :((( > > It hurts me just to think about having an erection > > while the catheter is still in! [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > erection with a catheter in is that there is not enough slack (hm, that > sounds more boastful than I intended :-) ). Yes, that is a very good sign but ignore it for the time being with the cath still in. In fact just the thought of having an erection even just a partial erection is almost a painful thought with the cath still in there. It is not unusual for some guys to experience some stirrings at this early stage and for most of them they were able to be very successful after the cath was removed. But seriously do not encourage it while you are still healing. If it happens again, it happens, but don't set out to make it happen. Bev > Last night my wife and I were having an intimate cuddle in bed. There > was no contact with my genitals (still got the catheter in there and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I know a lot of you use phrases like "no action at all", but do you > really mean no response whatsoever, or just nothing useful? I don't think your stirrings are too significant at this early stage. I had lots of "signs" that things were coming to life down there but they all proved to be false. For instance, my concerns regarding erections caused me to get a few arousing dreams (like the old days) which I viewed as a sure sign of future success and upon awakening I was sure I had had a full erection but there was no full erection, only some stirring. ("In you dreams buddy"). I discovered very early on that I would achieve a partial erection when sitting on the toilet and also standing in the shower, but again, nothing of use in the sack. I had numerous "morning erections" that turned out to be small blips on the erection scale but nothing more significant. So, I experienced a lot of signs that were encouraging but so far nothing especially useful. I am now at 2 years post-op, and with considerable mental focus and lots of manipulation I can get an erection that is about a 4 on a scale of 1 to 10 with no vitamin V, 5 being the cutoff between "go" and "no go". Since I was only about a 6 pre-op I guess I'm making some progress but not yet "all the way". Lots of good orgasms so I can't complain in that department but none of the good old sweaty "in and out" action. Viagra helps a little but not enough. Anyway, I hope your stirrings are the real thing and there's a good chance they are. Mine have been mostly false alarms. Dave Perry > Last night my wife and I were having an intimate cuddle in bed. There > was no contact with my genitals (still got the catheter in there and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I know a lot of you use phrases like "no action at all", but do you > really mean no response whatsoever, or just nothing useful? I too had some stirring while the cath was in. Were they an omen of things to come? Hard to say (no pun intended). fromthe time the cath was removed until 9 months later, I was on a regimen of 10mg Cialis every other day. Erections did come back - with some seriuos stimulation. I'm now a year out and require 100mg Viagra to achieve a sufficient erection. by sufficient I mean good enough for intercourse. My wife thiks I would do even better if I lost some weight - she's probably right. BTW, I'm 48 years old. My brother, who had his procedure 3 weeks before me and is 5 years older is able to achieve sufficient erections without the aid of meds. Just goes to show how we're all different. I wonder how much of it has to do with attitude? My suggestion would be to keep a good attitude about it, once the cath comes out and the doc gives you the okay - practice, pratice, practice... Good luck, Sandy K. It's probably not a good thinkg to have an erection with a catheter inserted, but the fact that you are already having some reaction is definitely a plus after RRP. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum > Last night my wife and I were having an intimate cuddle in bed. There > was no contact with my genitals (still got the catheter in there and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I know a lot of you use phrases like "no action at all", but do you > really mean no response whatsoever, or just nothing useful? Reading the variety of response, I am getting the sense that the stirrings I experienced may well mean nothing at all. Seems like (as with so many aspects of all this) people's experiences are all over the map - folks who recovered erectile function early may look back at their early stirrings and figure that they were a good omen, but the stories from people who got the stirrings but not much else suggest to me that there may not be a whole lot of correlation. SignaturePeter Headland Hello Peter Headland.... Like your name suggests, you will not only have a Peter, but some "Head" land.... Yes, you are recovering, and quite early. I would never confront my wife with a catheter.... I waited till it was out, and then did I get a surprize... Not going to tell that.... That is my personal experience. So, wait a bit, kiss and snuggle, but get the dam catheter out..... Walk, run, drink lots of fluid, test yourself, do Kiegels.. Good wishes Peter... Your wife will love you with no cum.....It is not so messy, and you still get orgasm Believe me, I like the prior, but prefer to be alive and talk about the past and the present.. It seems you are past the prior, and ready for the present..... > Last night my wife and I were having an intimate cuddle in bed. There > was no contact with my genitals (still got the catheter in there and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I know a lot of you use phrases like "no action at all", but do you > really mean no response whatsoever, or just nothing useful? I remember reading someone report here that he had intercourse with his wife while the catheter was still in. Just bend the tubing down the length of the penis, insert..... > Hello Peter Headland.... > I would never confront my wife with a catheter.... YYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW! SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum > I remember reading someone report here that he had intercourse with his wife > while the catheter was still in. Just bend the tubing down the length of > the penis, insert..... > > > Hello Peter Headland.... > > I would never confront my wife with a catheter.... FWIW, I just got spoke with my surgeon, and he says 4 weeks before intercourse (if such is possible), 6 weeks before vigorous intercourse. Well, a guy can hope, I suppose... Also FWIW, he seemed to feel I might actually need these guidelines - he is pretty optimistic on both incontinence and potency given how smoothly the operation went (and he should know). But, as always, we will see what reality has to say about all this. SignaturePeter Headland > My question is, from the experience of those of you who have had > surgery, should this give me hope? Hope is good. I had a few similar early erections, then a relapse where I wasn't hard enough for penetration. It was a slow progression for me, somewhat mental because it just "feels different". Now, at age 60 and nearly 1.5 years post RRP, I can usually perform normally. You have to have patience with this thing, and remember life is never the same from day to day, even with a prostate. Having a supportive partner is great, too. Best wishes. SignatureWake PSA 3.8, 11/2003 @58yrs Biopsy positive 5% in 1 of 10 cores T1c Gleason 3+3 RRP 1/12/04 Pathology agreed with biopsy + Negative margins PSA - 4/29/04: <0.1 Mostly Dry - July '04 PSA - 10/5/04: <0.1 PSA - 4/05 : <0.1 |
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