On July 13, the following exchange occurred between Steve Kramer in the
USA and Douwe in The Netherlands (I have started a new thread because in the
original one the messages were going far afield from the original topic.
Hope this common Usenet protocol doesn't cause "Larry Larsen"
undue heartburn).
Well, come to think of it, I don't care about the state of LL's
digestion. Oops; this could become a whole new thread! ;-)
Anyhow, enough fun; to business.
The following is my message to Douwe. First in Dutch, then in English:
Douwe:
Ik gebruik een computer vertaalprogramma en enkele vertaling van
Engels aan het Nederlands zou onhandige uitdrukkingen kunnen bevatten.
Gelieve te excuseren de gebreken. Als er om het even wat zijn die er
niet in slaagt om steek te houden, gelieve me te vertellen en ik zal
proberen om u bij te staan.
Na het lezen van uw berichten, geloof ik dat u verdere studie van uw
voorwaarde en zijn behandeling nodig hebt.
Bijvoorbeeld, heb ik nooit een chirurgische procedure vernomen die uit
het schaven van de prostate klier impliceert. Ik geloof dat een
dergelijke procedure onmogelijk is. In chirurgie, moet de klier totaal
worden verwijderd.
Betreffende straling: deze behandeling gebruikt straling om de
prostate kankercellen te doden. Tezelfdertijd doodt het de gezonde
prostate cellen. Het resultaat is een dode prostate klier. De
procedure impliceert "het branden" in de betekenis van hoge hitte
niet. ALS kanker tot de klier beperkt is, zou dit het moeten genezen.
Nochtans, begrijp ik dat uw kanker voorbij de klier heeft uitgespreid.
Deze verspreiding wordt genoemd "metastase." Het meervoud is
"metastasen" en duidt meer dan één metastaseplaats aan.
Dergelijke plaatsen zouden in de rudimentaire blaasjes, de
bekkenlymfeknopen, en/of de beenderen in het vroege stadium kunnen
zijn.
Betreffende cryosurgery: Dit is het bevriezen van de prostate klier,
die holle sondes gebruikt waardoor het vloeibare gas wordt
doorgegeven. De huidige procedure gebruikt vloeibaar argon. De
doelstelling is het zelfde als straling, om de klier en kanker te
doden.
Om het even welk van deze procedures konden in tijdelijke incontinence
en erectiele problemen evenals andere bijwerkingen (se's) resulteren.
Ik begrijp dat u nu medicijnen neemt die bedoeld zijn om uw ziekte te
veroorzaken om zijn vooruitgang te vertragen of tegen te houden. Als
ik correct ben, en uw rapporten van uw klinische status ook correct
zijn, kan dit uw beste hoop zijn van het blijven leven tot iets anders
definitief uw leven beëindigt.
Hier zijn mijn suggesties voor verdere studie:
1. Verwijs naar de website van het Prostate Instituut van het
Kankeronderzoek bij; http://prostate-cancer.org/index.html
Daar zult u veel nuttige informatie vinden.
2. Koop en bestudeer -- gelezen niet, STUDIE, _ Inleiding op Prostate
Kanker _ door Stephen B. Strum, MD, en Donna Pogliano. Buiten de
minimale royalty die zij hebben ontvangen, profiteren zij niet van dit
boek. Ik moet zeggen dat dit boek letterlijk gered mijn leven.
***************
Douwe:
I am using a computer translation program and some of the translation
from English to Dutch might contain awkward phrases. Please excuse the
flaws. If there is anything that fails to make sense, please tell me and
I will try to assist you.
After reading your messages, I believe that you need further study of
your condition and its treatment.
For example, I have never heard of a surgical procedure that involves
scraping out the prostate gland. I believe that such a procedure is
impossible. In surgery, the gland must be totally removed.
Regarding radiation: this treatment uses radiation to kill the prostate
cancer cells. At the same time, it kills the healthy prostate cells. The
result is a dead prostate gland. The procedure does not involve
"burning" in the sense of high heat. IF the cancer is confined to the
gland, this should cure it.
However, I understand that your cancer has spread beyond the gland. This
spread is called "metastasis." The plural is "metastases" and denotes
more than one metastasis site.
Such sites could be in the seminal vesicles, the pelvic lymph nodes,
and/or the bones in the early stage.
Regarding cryosurgery: This is the freezing of the prostate gland, using
hollow probes through which liquid gas is circulated. The present
procedure uses liquid argon. The objective is the same as radiation, to
kill the gland and the cancer.
Any of these procedures could result in temporary incontinence and
erectile problems as well as other side effects (SE's).
I understand that you are now taking medications that are intended to
cause your disease to slow or stop its progress. If I am correct, and
your reports of your clinical status are also correct, this may be your
best hope of continuing to live until something else finally ends your life.
Here are my suggestions for further study:
1. Refer to the web site of the Prostate Cancer Research institute at;
http://prostate-cancer.org/index.html
There you will find much helpful information.
2. Buy and study -- not read, STUDY, _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_ by
Stephen B. Strum, MD, and Donna Pogliano. Other than the minimal royalty
they receive, they do not profit from this book. I must say that this
book literally saved my life.
Goed geluk,
Good luck,
Steve J
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small,
large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good
sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming
might of the enemy.''
--Sir Winston L. S. Churchill
Douwe - 14 Jul 2005 10:13 GMT
"Stephen Jordan" <mycroftscj@earthlink.net> wrote...
The following is my message to Douwe. First in Dutch, then in English:
Douwe:
Ik gebruik een computer vertaalprogramma en enkele vertaling van
Engels aan het Nederlands zou onhandige uitdrukkingen kunnen bevatten.
Gelieve te excuseren de gebreken. Als er om het even wat zijn die er
niet in slaagt om steek te houden, gelieve me te vertellen en ik zal
proberen om u bij te staan.
2. Buy and study -- not read, STUDY, _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_ by
Stephen B. Strum, MD, and Donna Pogliano. Other than the minimal royalty
they receive, they do not profit from this book. I must say that this
book literally saved my life.
---
Thank you Stephen for your trying to make me comfortable.
I wish I had such a translator machine, it would save some time.
But than, the doctors gave me 4 month up to a year, to live. Those 4
month have passed.
Unlike you, I desided to live my life to the best I am able to and it is
a little effort to curl the corners of my mouth upwards; it helps a lot.
Study? I do live in an apartment building, no elevator. Soon I'm not
able to walk down those stairs (5th floor). So I study the neighbours,
living in this block. Soon I need them to visit me, or I am lonesome
during day time, wile my dear wife works for income.
So you see, Stephen, my urgenties differ a bit from yours.
I hope you have a long and healthy life, after this little problem is
over.
I'll be her until about August 2007, when the first pension-check comes
in.
For your translate computer:
Mijn fouten in taalgebruik hier? Zelfs in het Nederlands maak ik fouten.
Het is soms moeilijk om me te concentreren, met tranen in de ogen en
kanker uitzaaiingen vanaf het bekken, naar boven naar de neus, en weer
terug tot onder de voeten. Andere mensen hier in de groep lazen mijn
tekst en wisten wat ik bedoelde. Jij niet? Oh... je wilde mij helpen? Op
jouw manier dus. Is die beter dan de manier van anderen?
Het gaat je goed.
Douwe
Steve Kramer - 14 Jul 2005 11:40 GMT
<<For example, I have never heard of a surgical procedure that involves
<<scraping out the prostate gland. I believe that such a procedure is
<<impossible. In surgery, the gland must be totally removed.
I think there is a treatment for some prostate conditions (not cancer) where
they go up the penis to scrape something in the prostate. I read about it
long ago when I was still hoping my PSA was elevated due to a non-cancerous
condition.
Douwe - 14 Jul 2005 11:49 GMT
"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote...
> I think there is a treatment for some prostate conditions (not cancer) where
> they go up the penis to scrape something in the prostate. I read about it
> long ago when I was still hoping my PSA was elevated due to a non-cancerous
> condition.
=TURP
Douwe
Bill - 14 Jul 2005 15:42 GMT
Douwe, you didn't answer my query in another thread - are the Douwe M.
I know from Lijndonk (sp?)?
Bill Denton
RP 2/12/02
PSA .60
Memphis
Douwe - 14 Jul 2005 15:53 GMT
"Bill" <zerospam@midsouth.rr.com>wrote...
> Douwe, you didn't answer my query in another thread - are the Douwe M.
> I know from Lijndonk (sp?)?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> PSA .60
> Memphis
I did answer, Bill and no, I'm not.
Regards
Douwe
Ron B - 14 Jul 2005 12:06 GMT
Steve Kramer noted:
::I think there is a treatment for some prostate conditions (not cancer)
where they go up the penis to scrape something in the prostate.::
Yes, it seems...many years ago...they would describe the prostate like
an orange peel where you scrape out the pulp.
I never understood that but I recall the example.
Anytime the prostate was mentioned...the old 'orange peel' thing would
be mentioned.
Now we're up to walnuts.
Ron B.
Chicago
Steve Kramer - 14 Jul 2005 22:59 GMT
Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe soon someone will create a stainless steel replacement
prostate.

Signature
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum
> Steve Kramer noted:
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Chicago
Stephen Jordan - 14 Jul 2005 18:42 GMT
On July 14 (Bastille Day) Steve Kramer responded to me:
> <<For example, I have never heard of a surgical procedure that involves
> <<scraping out the prostate gland. I believe that such a procedure is
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> long ago when I was still hoping my PSA was elevated due to a non-cancerous
> condition.
Yes, TURP (Trans-Urethral Resection of the Prostate).
I was focused on PCa tx.
Regards,
Steve J