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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / June 2005Where is the progress?
Year 1903, the Wright brothers performed the first powered flight. 1969, only 66 years later, man sat his foot on the moon. THAT's progress! 1891, the fist prostatectomy was performed. Today 2005, 114 years later...well... There is still no way to tell if a man have PC other than with a biopsy, a method that can easily give a false negative answer, in which case the patient is happily leaping home from his doc, only to find himself back at the docs office a couple of years later with back pain and a PC, in maybe a terminal stage. The prostatectomy has developed a bit as such; laparoscopic, robotic, but basically the same method as 1891, with the same side-effects, with the same uncertainty if you are cured or not. Same goes for radiation of all its kinds. And the drugs still all seem to be of the palliative purpose. With this progress rate, there's gonna be an other hundred years of research before we can properly diagnose and treat PC, at least! Gee... by then, we'll have created an atmosphere on Mars! The planet Mars will be populated with emigrated families from the Earth, living in their Mars-cities. The kids will attend their Mars-schools. The husband will sit in his sofa watching Mars-television AND... I wouldn't be surprised, if he still suffers from PC! Why is it so hard to deal with this disease? Where is the progress !? Finding a cure for PC, THAT would be a leap for mankind rather than walking on the moon, but I guess the news-value wouldn't be as "hip" huh? Some say the answer is around the corner, well, there's apparently very big blocks here in PC-city... /Roger Hm...did I write "fist" prostatectomy... of course I mean FIRST never the less... >Year 1903, the Wright brothers performed the first powered flight. >1969, only 66 years later, man sat his foot on the moon. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** >---------------------------------------------------------- Well put! I've often wondered about that myself lately. It is not promoted much like some of the more "designer diseases" by the media either, with little attention given to it by comparison. I think that one of the ways to deal with this and most other diseases is on the cellular level. Stem cell research is an important step in that direction. Engineering is just math and physics, well understood to the levels required to achieve your list and limited primarily by funding. OTOH, we just don't understand the human body that well yet. Even if funding were much greater, medical science just isn't as discrete. A set of equations devised by one person can prove or enable a physics or engineering challenge, but one medical case is just anecdotal, proving almost nothing because the variables are so numerous and unidentifiable. Until we can understand the body's systems, functions, and minutest parts down to the molecular level and define them in equations, medicine remains "fuzzy studies" -- empirical "data" - not engineering. After all, WE (including moi) built space hardware and Mars habitation is just civil enginering, but God or Mother Nature built mankind -- and threw away the blueprints. I.P. > Year 1903, the Wright brothers performed the first powered flight. > 1969, only 66 years later, man sat his foot on the moon. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Year 1903, the Wright brothers performed the first powered flight. > 1969, only 66 years later, man sat his foot on the moon. [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > /Roger Tell me which cancer has ever been really cured? Sure there are treatments and drugs and radiation, but cancer is for the most part natures way of telling us we're living too long. Our ancestors were eaten and slain, and died of exposure and common colds well before they were 30. We fight this battle to live forever with modern medicine, and for the most part have succeeded in extending our average lifetimes by 50 years. Sorry but as much as I love life, I'm a fatalist and realist by nature.  SignatureJK Sinrod Sinrod Stained Glass Studios http://www.sinrodstudios.com/ Coney Island Memories www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories/ Right on, JK. It seems everyone feels entitled to live forever, at least 'til 100 or so unless they are 100 and then they want another year or two, and if medical science can't get them there they feel slighted, insulted, "Why me?", dumb doctors, etc., etc.. Well, "Why not you?" So many people blubber over a bad diagnosis at age 60 when they ought to be grateful they made it that far - a life longer than most people have ever had. Every time I hear a "Why me" whiner I suggest he visit a childrens' cancer ward. I'm going to delay the end as long as I can because I'm pretty sure there is nothing after but I go when I go and I hope I can be helpful and useful to others along the way. We're all playing the same game, we each are dealt a hand, and we do the best we can with it. My greatest fear is that someone will come along with some kind of longevity pill that only the privileged few can have - politicians, priests, and a few mafia dons. Now that would really fry my butt. Dave Perry I kind of always thought that going was a part of the deal. Like you say Dave, we are all dealt a hand and we have no choice but to play it. But in this game we all reach a point where we have to fold. There is no winning. Pass go. Get a new life. As to the privileged and the politicians, as far as I am concerned they can stay here. If there is an "up there" I would just as soon not have them there. > Right on, JK. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > priests, and a few mafia dons. Now that would really fry my butt. > Dave Perry With this progress rate, there's gonna be an other hundred years of research before we can properly diagnose and treat PC, at least! Gee... by then, we'll have created an atmosphere on Mars! The planet Mars will be populated with emigrated families from the Earth, living in their Mars-cities. The kids will attend their Mars-schools. The husband will sit in his sofa watching Mars-television AND... I wouldn't be surprised, if he still suffers from PC! ========== yeah, it was all that eating the high caloried fat foods in space while waiting to land on a foreign planet, but look on the bright side. he will be able to have the surgery there..... well, no, he won't..... why? because of all the radiation he was exposed to in space...... then another thought, if he got all that radiation in space, he would already have the treatment before he had pca..... go figure.. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc You hit on the cure Curtis - space travel. Just shoot all men over 40 up in space for awhile and the radiation will kill their prostate. Now that is settled. What about eggs, are they okay to eat or not? > then another thought, if he got all that radiation in space, he would > already have the treatment before he had pca..... go figure.. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc On June 25, roger wrote, in pertinent part: (snip) > 1891, the fist prostatectomy was performed. That would be in Tucson, Arizona, by George Goodfellow (yup, that's his name), a perineal approach. I dunno the result. This was the standard prostatectomy method until 1947, when an English surgeon, Terrence Millin, reported on the retropubic approach. There's some fascinating history at http://www.prostate-cancer.org/education/localdis/brosman_RP2003.html One bit of fascinating history is that only 7% of men diagnosed with PCa were considered to be surgical candidates (and few of them were cured) until *1982* when Walsh came on the scene. Yes, *seven* percent. So I reckon that there has been some progress. But not enough. > Why is it so hard to deal with this disease? Where is the progress !? > Finding a cure for PC, THAT would be a leap for mankind rather than > walking on the moon, but I guess the news-value wouldn't be as "hip" > huh? It is extremely frustrating to see men who refuse even a PSA test ("my doc sez there are too many false positives"), who refuse even to consider the possibility (until too late) that there is something wrong "down there." It's unmanly, so they just suck it up and soldier on -- until it kills them after a bout of horror in the final stage. As as been said, unless there's morphine enough, the patient will die screaming. Is that graphic enough? Is that manly enough? I've seen some discussion elsewhere on the question that Roger poses. One theory that seems to make sense is that men simply won't deal with it as the ladies have dealt with BCa, and homosexuals have dealt with AIDS. Men have not pressed the issue with their legislators and others who control the allocation of research money. And in many cases we see right here on this NG dedicated and loving women who are trying to help their men. Where are the men, themselves?? In short, men have not raised the general and particular hell that has led to such progress in the BCa and AIDS fields (yes, there's more yet to do). But I think I detect a glimmer of hope, and will try to help nurture it. For example, last week's successful PCa conference in Washington. The final session last Sunday was devoted to a call to arms by, among others, Dr. Stephen B. Strum. Regards, Steve J ".....never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee." -- John Donne Relax...... How many open up a human body and change it? It is easy to put together metal, and harware, crank it together , fly off. I love the new things that are happening. Anyway, cancer is inward, and not so well developed. Cancer is cell life, and hormone related, and also part parential involved. Many Dr.s I know want to fight this disease. So do I. Give them time! John Loomis, and also fixed, with a smart Dr. and such. Think about the Ford brother.... Do you think we need more cars, or highways......humn Anyway........Thank god for the poilio vaccine You are a good guy. Me........... > Year 1903, the Wright brothers performed the first powered flight. > 1969, only 66 years later, man sat his foot on the moon. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Year 1903, the Wright brothers performed the first powered flight. > 1969, only 66 years later, man sat his foot on the moon. > > THAT's progress! > > 1891, the fist prostatectomy was performed. OOOOOO that REALLY has got to hurt! The single finger prostate check was painful enough for me! > Finding a cure for PC, THAT would be a leap for mankind rather than > walking on the moon, but I guess the news-value wouldn't be as "hip" [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > /Roger Roger, You are being way to harsh in your assessment. The problem is not that progress has not been made, but rather that the medical establishment is very slow to change their ways. If you want 0% chance of death from PC for early stage, check out: http://prostateweb.com/pdfs/ASCO_PCF_02_2005.pdf If you want 7.4% chance of death from PC for late stage, check out: http://www.asco.org/ac/1,1003,_12-002636-00_18-0034-00_19-0034127,00.asp I'd like to tell you that 0% chance of death from PC for late stage is just around the corner, but unfortunately, we have to wait for the FDA to approve estrogen receptor-alpha blocking drugs first. Then, according to my model: http://www.tbiomed.com/content/2/1/10 it should be possible to put an end to death from PC. Ed Friedman |
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