Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / June 2005
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Michael Kiely - 13 Jun 2005 22:54 GMT I think I just received my membership card in this group today. From the posts I've seen, you seem to be a caring and well informed, well, family.(?) While I can hardly say it is a pleasure to join, I look forward to our give and take -- and your guidance.
I have "adenocarcinoma" in one core with a gleason score of 6. My Uro said that was cancer in 5% to 10% of the prostate. I have high-grade PIN in "part C, as well as in several other cores," according to the biopsy report. One core has "chronic and focal acute inflammation with atrophy of the prostate." Two cores have "Intraepithelial neoplasia, high grade, focal, of prostate." Four cores have "benign hyperplasia of prostate."
In a descriptive section, the report says, "Present in two of three core fragments in part C are foci of moderately differentiated invasive adenocarcinoma of intermediate nuclear grade having architectural features of Gleason's pattern 3. On the slides, the larger focus measures about 0.1 cm, and the smaller is about 0.6 mm. Together, they occupy between 5 - 10% of the total area in part C. No perineurel invasion is identified."
Does this last sentence mean I have no cancer outside the prostate? I forgot to ask that question.
I'm 60 and in otherwise excellent health. I run around 20 miles a week on a track behind our house. (That's about two pairs of running shoes a year! I see there are some runners among you.)
What did I leave out?
I would appreciate any feedback you feel is appropriate.
Michael K
Wayne - 13 Jun 2005 23:56 GMT >I think I just received my membership card in this group today. From the >posts I've seen, you seem to be a caring and well informed, well, family.(?) [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >track behind our house. (That's about two pairs of running shoes a year! I >see there are some runners among you.) That is a serious problem, but you can increase the milage on your shoes by applying some glue over the heel worn spots with a hot glue gun. You must repeat this every few days, as it wears away, but it adds very many miles.
Kidding a little of course. No joy, but a warm welcome to the club anyway. No, the biopsy is not sufficient to declare no cancer outside the prostate. "No perineurel invasion is identified" just means the bioposy samples did not identify any at the limited locations of the cores. However your case of one core with Gleason 6 is relatively low grade, which probably does means about 99% chance of none outside yet, according to the Partin tables (books below, and online too). That is the good news, you have time to cure this thing.
First thing to do is to make sure your doctor got a second opinion on the biopsy lab work. I'd assume that is pretty standard, to be sure it is accurate before planning action based on it. Second thing is to read at least a couple of Prostate Cancer books, Walsh or Dummies for example are excellent. Only after you acquire some understanding do you decide a plan.
I didnt understand most of the words in your report, but the pathololgy report after RRP surgery will be greatly more accurate. The report wont get any better after they get it out to look at it (all they can do is find more). But they can actually see and test all of the margins then, which will be meaningful. And you will know then it is gone.
My own case was very similar, age 66, PSA 4.3, one of 12 cores with Gleaon 6. Pathology reported two palatable tumors after they got it out. Nothing palatable via DRE. The side effects of RRP are far from trivial, but I'm glad the cancer is gone now.
Wayne
Stephen Jordan - 14 Jun 2005 04:14 GMT On June 13, responding to Mike, Wayne wrote in pertinent part:
> My own case was very similar, age 66, PSA 4.3, one of 12 cores with Gleaon > 6. Pathology reported two palatable tumors after they got it out. Nothing > palatable via DRE. I know that criticizing a poster's errors in language is considered to be flaming, but I got such jolt out of the above, that, meaning no offense, I just have to comment.
About tumors, Wayne, of course, meant to write "palpable," meaning "obvious." What he wrote was "palatable," meaning "delicious." This brought to my sick mind visions of eating -- and enjoying -- tumors. Ech.
To wax didactic, this would be a "malapropism," which is defined as, "(t)he usually unintentionally humorous misuse of a word, especially by confusion with one of similar sound." (Dictionary.com)
OK, got that out of my system and school is dismissed ;-)
Except for Mike's hard school of learning about the nature of his disease and what best to do about it.
I very strongly recommend reference to the website of the Prostate Cancer Research Institute at http://prostate-cancer.org/index.html There, Mike will find objective information and references that should help him immensely in the coming struggle.
All the best, and do keep us informed.
Regards,
Steve J
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.'' --Sir Winston L. S. Churchill
Wayne - 14 Jun 2005 04:49 GMT Oops! Yes, you're right of course, it was the wrong word, not what I intended.
Peter Headland - 14 Jun 2005 17:22 GMT Given the fad for women to fry and eat their placentas after birth, maybe I should be demanding to be allowed to eat my prostate?
 Signature Peter Headland
Ron C - 14 Jun 2005 00:39 GMT Hi, Michael, and welcome (although we all wish you didn't have to be here). Surgery is not the only option for this disease, although it is highly favored in this NG, especially for "victims" of your age. At 62 with a Gleason score of 6 and 10% cancer in one core, lesser amounts in two others, I opted for brachytherapy instead and am pleased with the results so far. You'll have to decide what treatment option is best for you, and as you probably already know, it's not an easy decision to make. As the previous respondent said, take some time and read, then ask questions. See a surgeon and a radiation doc, and ask pointed questions about their experience, expertise and success rates. Then make your choice, say a prayer, cross your fingers, and hang in here with the rest of us.
Good luck.
Ron Carter
Peter Headland - 14 Jun 2005 01:08 GMT "Perineural invasion" means the cancer is spreading along nerves within the prostate; it doesn't tell you anything about whether it has extended beyond the prostate capsule. Recent studies by some of the best in the field suggest that this very common finding is meaningless.
Biopsies can never tell you that there is definitely no cancer outside your prostate. They usually cannot tell you even if there is. Only surgery could give you any reasonable indication about that (and even then, the cancer might have metastasized to a different site, though that seems very unlikely in your case).
The inflammation and atrophy are very common and don't mean anything at all in respect of cancer.
For future reference, "prostatic intraepithelial neoplasia" = PIN. Generally considered to be precancerous, but might not become so for many decades.
All-in-all, that is pretty good pathology, given that it is positive at all. But get a move on and choose a treatment plan - you can't ignore this.
As others have said, a second opinion on the pathology from a top-rated centre might be illuminating.
 Signature Peter Headland
Glassman - 14 Jun 2005 01:21 GMT > I think I just received my membership card in this group today. From the > posts I've seen, you seem to be a caring and well informed, well, family.(?) > While I can hardly say it is a pleasure to join, I look forward to our give > and take -- and your guidance. Consider yourself a lucky guy! How's that for a positive spin on things? You got yourself diagnosed early, and there's a very good chance you'll die of getting hit by a truck before you croak of PCa. Read and absorb all your options. My personal and slanted advice is to find the best experienced surgeon and hospital in your area and have an RP. I'm 55 and 3 years post surgery. I'm very pleased with where I am in life now. Good luck!
 Signature JK Sinrod Sinrod Stained Glass Studios www.sinrodstudios.com Coney Island Memories www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories
John Loomis - 14 Jun 2005 02:24 GMT Hello JK. Sinrod, Nice post and right to the point. I was back east for a week. It was extremely fun, and hot. 94o and hello.....very high humidity... Good info to Michael Kiely. John Loomis
>> I think I just received my membership card in this group today. From the >> posts I've seen, you seem to be a caring and well informed, well, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > surgeon and hospital in your area and have an RP. I'm 55 and 3 years post > surgery. I'm very pleased with where I am in life now. Good luck! David S. - 14 Jun 2005 12:18 GMT Hello Michael, welcome to the "family". This is without a doubt the best ng that I have ever seen. You will find a wide range of topics here. Do not be put off by the humor when it presents itself. There is also frank discussion that some find offensive, and we have unfortunately lost members over some of it. Do not be afraid to ask any questions here. We are all here for information and support. You will no doubt run into a lot of practical problems as you progress through this experience. There are a lot of resources available to help you educate yourself, e.g., the phoenix5 web site. Take a look at Joe's recent post, "1300 Page Prostate Cancer Website". There is a wealth of information there.
On your numbers, you appear to be in good shape. I was PSA 5.0, PSA Free 6%, Gleason 6 (post surgery path report reported Gleason 5), 6% in two of ten biopsy specimens, prostate 30 grams. They told me that there was almost no chance that the cancer had spread when I was diagnosed, and after the RRP the path report showed organ contained disease, clear surgical margins, and lymph nodes clear. I wish you the same!
Good luck.
Thank you. David S.
> I think I just received my membership card in this group today. From the > posts I've seen, you seem to be a caring and well informed, well, family.(?) [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Michael K Steve Kramer - 14 Jun 2005 12:58 GMT Hi, Michael.
Did the report mention your Stage (T1a, T2b,...) or your overall Gleason score (3+3=6, 3+4=7, ...)?
The "last sentences" merely means that the biopsy did not identify any escape from the capsule. You won't know for sure until and unless your prostate is removed and biopsied on a lab table.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum
> I think I just received my membership card in this group today. From the > posts I've seen, you seem to be a caring and well informed, well, family.(?) [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Michael K Peter Headland - 14 Jun 2005 17:26 GMT > The "last sentences" merely means that the > biopsy did not identify any escape from the capsule. No, it doesn't mean that. See my posting above above, and: http://prostatepointers.org/prostate/oppenheimer/oppenheimer3.html (in the 5th paragraph up from the end).
 Signature Peter Headland
Stavros Moschos - 14 Jun 2005 22:33 GMT Welcome from a less-than-a year member. You have come to the right place, with knowledgeable, intelligent, and, above all, very caring and sincere people. Being here has made an enormous difference to me as I have dealt with PCa--I only wish I had known of it earlier. But true support is here and, as I have gratefully learned, some very real and important helpful suggestions. By the way, as I read your information, I believe that you have every reason to be very optimistic. But, of course, you must make a treatment decision and take care of your PCa. The very best of luck to you.
>I think I just received my membership card in this group today. From the >posts I've seen, you seem to be a caring and well informed, well, [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Michael K
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