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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / May 2005

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Lycopene, Saw Palmetto Fail in Prostate Health Trials

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c palmer - 31 May 2005 01:23 GMT
Lycopene, Saw Palmetto Fail in Prostate Health Trials

By Ed Susman

SAN ANTONIO, TX -- May 26, 2005 --

Two popular natural treatments for prostate health -- lycopene and saw
palmetto -- proved ineffective in controlled clinical trials,
researchers reported here May 22nd at the American Urological
Association (AUA) Annual Meeting.
Peter Clark, MD, assistant professor of urology at Wake Forest
University in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, United States, presented
results of a study that tested the impact of lycopene -- the compound
that makes tomatoes red -- on men with recurrent prostate cancer. The
goal of the trial was to see if lycopene could control PSA levels.

The investigators enrolled 36 men with recurrent cancer who were
administered different doses of lycopene extract, ranging from 15 mg to
120 mg a day, for 12 months. At the end of the trial, doctors determined
that lycopene had no effect on the recipients:

--None of the 35 patients who completed the study showed any response.

--The PSA doubling time prior to entry into the trial averaged 3.7
years; at the end of the trial, the doubling time was 4.1 years, not a
statistical difference.

--The PSA slope -- another method of analyzing the marker -- prior to
lycopene was 0.010; after lycopene, it was 0.011. Again, that
represented no change.

A similar negative finding was reported for an experiment involving saw
palmetto, an herbal remedy widely used for treatment of benign prostatic
hyperplasia.
Andrew Avins, MD, assistant professor of medicine and epidemiology at
the University of California, San Francisco, United States, explained
that the aim of the trial was see if the use of saw palmetto could
improve urinary flow among men with benign prostatic hyperplasia.

The placebo-controlled trial, funded by the National Institutes of
Health's National Institute on Complementary and Alternative Medicine,
enrolled 225 men with documented disease. Over one year, the men made
eight office visits for evaluation in several urinary health-related
outcomes.

"In contrast to most prior studies," said Dr. Avins, "we found no
significant benefit of saw palmetto on urinary symptoms or objective
measures of benign prostatic hyperplasia over a one-year period."

"We have shown, however, that well-designed clinical trials can be
performed to determine if alternative therapies are effective," he
concluded.

[Presentation title: Prospective Dose Escalation Trial of Lycopene in
Men With Recurrent Prostate Cancer Following Definitive Local Therapy.
Abstract 1014.]    

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
Leonard Evens - 31 May 2005 14:45 GMT
> Lycopene, Saw Palmetto Fail in Prostate Health Trials
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> results of a study that tested the impact of lycopene -- the compound
> that makes tomatoes red -- on men with recurrent prostate cancer.

Note that this study doesn't say anything about whether or not lycopenes
might help prevent prostate cancer in the first place or whether or not
they might help avoid recurrence after treatment.

> The
> goal of the trial was to see if lycopene could control PSA levels.
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
> http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc
OCL - 31 May 2005 19:26 GMT
> The goal of the trial was to see if lycopene could control PSA levels.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> --None of the 35 patients who completed the study showed any response.

Interesting.  What do you think they mean by "recurrent cancer"?  I assume
that means that they had PCa and that they were somehow treated for it
(surgery, radiation?) and then it came back?

> "In contrast to most prior studies," said Dr. Avins, "we found no
> significant benefit of saw palmetto on urinary symptoms or objective
> measures of benign prostatic hyperplasia over a one-year period."

Could be that I was an anomaly or that it was the placebo effect, but
when I had mild benign prostatic hyperplasia three years ago, I self-
medicated with saw palmetto an within three weeks had significant
improvement.  That's not all that interesting because the BPH could
have been on the way out anyway.  But, I withdrew from saw palmetto
three times subsequent to that and each time the BPH returned and
each time it went away when I began taking the saw palmetto again.
All three of the urologists I consulted suggested continuing the saw
palmetto since it was obviously working for me.

This study as they say contradicts other studies that have been done
that have shown some usefulness in saw palmetto for some people.

So that's interesting.

OCL
Ed Friedman - 31 May 2005 19:41 GMT
>>"In contrast to most prior studies," said Dr. Avins, "we found no
>>significant benefit of saw palmetto on urinary symptoms or objective
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> OCL

OCL,

I don't think that this study actually contradicts the other studies.
According to the model that I have published, decreasing DHT (which is
what saw palmetto does) will not result in a decrease in either BPH or
prostate cancer unless there is a significant amount of testosterone(T)
present.  Since men with prostate cancer, especially "recurrent cancer"
tend to have a much lower level of T than men who don't, then saw
palmetto would have no beneficial effect for them.

Ed Friedman
OCL - 31 May 2005 22:20 GMT
> I don't think that this study actually contradicts the other studies.
> According to the model that I have published, decreasing DHT (which is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> tend to have a much lower level of T than men who don't, then saw palmetto
> would have no beneficial effect for them.

Ed: The "catch" though in this newspaper article that cites the two
studies is that they were two different studies and only the first
one about lycopene was conducted with men with "recurrent cancer."
The study about saw palmetto was with men with BPH.  The  way
the article was worded made it sound like either the same men
were used for both studies or the men with BPH had recurrent
cancer.  That's why I wondered how the men with recurrent
cancer had already been treated.  The article didn't say.  If they
had recurrent cancer were they treated prior to taking the lycopene?
In what way?  Did they all have prostatectomies?  Radiation?
No treatment?  Was there a difference between them according
to the kind of treatment they already had?  So I would need to
read both of these studies to really be able to comment on them.
I've sure learned never to rely on newspaper summaries of
medical studies for accurate information.

What I hear you saying is that a man like me who had a mild
case of BPH and no prostate cancer - at least none that we
were aware of - would tend to have higher testosterone than
men with recurrent prostate cancer and so the saw palmetto
might have more of an effect on me.  But, I assume these men
in the saw palmetto study aren't the "recurrent cancer" people.

I would like to know if there were *any* men who took the
saw palmetto whose BPH improved and if there were, then
why in them and not in enough men to affect the averages.

OCL
Bill - 31 May 2005 16:09 GMT
Some day the medical establishment will realize that it is not any one
thing that makes the difference - it is a combination of heredity, what
you eat and don't eat, stress levels, exercise, general health, and
just plain luck. It is pointless to do these studies of single
variables in a vacuum.  

Bill Denton
RP 2/12/02
PSA .45
Memphis
Alan Meyer - 31 May 2005 21:41 GMT
> Lycopene, Saw Palmetto Fail in Prostate Health Trials

Damn!

That's not what I was hoping to hear.

   Alan

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