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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / May 2005

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John Raymond - 14 May 2005 23:54 GMT
I've been lurking for a couple of weeks absorbing all the information here
and would like to introduce myself.

My name is John Raymond, I'm 61, a retired computer programmer and live in
Northeast Pa. Active in gardening, do-it-yourself, hunting & shooting,
swimming, reading, computers and taking my wife shopping ;-)

My history, PSA last year was 3.75 this year jumped to 4.57 and my PCP
sent me to a urologist, did the usual and decided that a biopsy was
warranted, that came back positive with a Gleason of 5 (2+3). The cancer
was in microscopic amounts in both sides.

I've been reading all the literature and web information I can get, also I
have a brother-in-law that just went through this in the last year. So I
have been filled in a lot.

I've talked with my urologist, who feels that surgery is the best answer
for a "young guy", of course he is a surgeon.  I've also talked with 2
rad-onc and they feel that brachytherapy will give me as good results as
the surgery, of course that's their field.

I've had two heart attacks in the last 18 years, the last a year and a
half ago, had two stents put in. I am in good condition now, exercise an
hour every other day. My PCP feels that in light of my heart that
brachytherapy is the better option for me.

I just wanted to jump in as this seems to be an active, informed and
intelligent group.

I have made the decision to go ahead with the brachytherapy as it fits my
life style and goals.

Thanks for listening
John
OCL - 15 May 2005 00:45 GMT
> My history, PSA last year was 3.75 this year jumped to 4.57 and my PCP
> sent me to a urologist, did the usual and decided that a biopsy was
> warranted, that came back positive with a Gleason of 5 (2+3). The cancer
> was in microscopic amounts in both sides.

John: Sounds like you've done your homework and you've made the
decision for treatment that's right for you and I am sure that it is going
to take care of your PCa!

I don't know if you have considered as a factor that yyour Gleason of
2+3 and the "microscopic amounts" are based on the biopsy and that
there is some possibility that you could have more cancer present and
of a higher grade.  You didn't mention how many cores you had in your
biopsy and how many were positive and what the estimated percentage
is.  The only reason I bring this up is that my own post-surgery
pathology showed much more extensive cancer than the biopsy
indicated and I was upgraded from Gleason 3+3 to 4+3.  In
retrospect the surgeon and I both agreed that surgery was the best
choice.  Unfortunately we don't always know this until after surgery.

Fred
James A Honeychuck - 15 May 2005 00:58 GMT
Get a second opinion on the biopsy slides!  Gleason 5 is down in the
gray area.

jimhoney
standard RRP age 52, cured, no significant aftereffects

> I've been lurking for a couple of weeks absorbing all the information here
> and would like to introduce myself.
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Thanks for listening
> John
Stephen Jordan - 15 May 2005 03:00 GMT
On May 14, James A Honeychuck replied to John Raymond:

> Get a second opinion on the biopsy slides!  Gleason 5 is down in the
> gray area.

Jim didn't post any recommendations, so I will:

 David Bostwick (Bostwick Labs, Virginia) [800] 214-6628
 Francisco J. Civantos (Florida) [305] 325-5587
 Jon Epstein (Hopkins) [410] 955-5043 or 410-955-2162 (Dr. Epstein does
not do ploidy analysis)
 David Grignon (Michigan) 313-745-2520
 John McNeal (Stanford) [650] 725-5534
 Jon Oppenheimer (Tennessee] [888] 868-7522
 Dianon Laboratories 1 [800] 328-2666 (select 5 for client services)
 UroCor, Inc. 1 [800] 411-1839

My second opinion was done at Bostwick Labs, and produced useful info that
was *not* reported by the local lab. Verrrry interesting.

It costs $350 - $500. Most if not all insurers, including Medicare, will
pay for it.

AIUI, most medics know about the specialist labs, but do not volunteer the
info. Surprise!

Regards,

Steve J
MH - 15 May 2005 02:32 GMT
Hi, John....

Sounds like you have made the decision that is best for you... and that is
just as it should be.  We all have to look at the options... educate
ourselves... and then choose the best route for ourselves.  Brachytherapy is
certainly a very valid option these days!

I wish you well!

MikeH
30 months post LRP

> I've been lurking for a couple of weeks absorbing all the information here
> and would like to introduce myself.
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Thanks for listening
> John
Steve Kramer - 15 May 2005 12:10 GMT
Welcome to the club, John!  Sorry to report you've passed the single
qualifier to join.  But, it should be of some great relief to you to know
that of all the people I've met here in the last 3+ years, your Gleason is
among the lowest score I've seen and only have seen it among less than 2%.

As such, you have every option in the world and almost all of them will have
great chances to be cures.

Please keep us posted.

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum

> I've been lurking for a couple of weeks absorbing all the information here
> and would like to introduce myself.
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Thanks for listening
> John
Stavros Moschos - 15 May 2005 16:24 GMT
I, too, believe that you are making the right decision and that with such an
early stage of PC you will be just fine.  I wish you the best.

 .
> I've been lurking for a couple of weeks absorbing all the information here
> and would like to introduce myself.
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> Thanks for listening
> John
Alan Meyer - 15 May 2005 18:23 GMT
> ...
> My history, PSA last year was 3.75 this year jumped to 4.57 and my PCP
> sent me to a urologist, did the usual and decided that a biopsy was
> warranted, that came back positive with a Gleason of 5 (2+3). The cancer
> was in microscopic amounts in both sides.
> ...

With a Gleason 5 and microscopic tumors, I'm surprised no
one mentioned watchful waiting to you.  With a very small non-
aggressive, and slow growing cancer, you might be able to control
it just with diet.  Lycopene, gamma Vitamin-E and green tea
extract all appear to have some ability to control PCa and might
be all you need for a very weak cancer.  This is something you
might ask your doctors about.

The key part of watchful waiting is "watchful".  If you try it (or even if
you don't) you should probably get a second opinion on the biopsy
slides to make sure the cancer really is as non-aggressive as the
first lab thought.  Also, you might go to a more frequent PSA test
schedule to be sure that, if the cancer does start to grow, you'll find
out as soon as possible.

> ...
> I've had two heart attacks in the last 18 years, the last a year and a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> life style and goals.
> ...

If you do opt for treatment, my totally amateur, non-expert and
not to be taken too seriously opinion is: brachytherapy is the easiest
treatment to get with the fewest common side effects.  It's not
recommended by itself for aggressive cases where surgery or
external beam radiation (with or without brachytherapy, and often
with hormone therapy) are used.  But it is supposed to be as
effective as the more radical treatments when used on relatively
easy cases.

If all goes well, you'll spend no more than one night in the hospital
and some patients don't even spend a night.  You should have
very little pain.  I had some soreness and used an ice pack off
and on for a day or two.

The radiation takes place over a period of weeks or months and
the side effects, if you get them, take a while to show up.  You
may have difficulty urinating due to swelling of the prostate
tissue around the urethra tending to close it off.  If that happens,
(it happened to me) Flowmax may relieve the symptoms and
you might be on that drug for a few months.

You might have blood in the semen.  You might have some pain
during sex.  Eventually, you might become impotent.  If that
happens, depending on how bad it is, you may be able to
overcome the problem with Viagra (though I don't know if
Viagra is advisable for a man who has had heart attacks.)  The
most common long term problem is impotence - but that is
true for all of the treatments.  In my own case I came out a
little less potent than before, but not much.  I can still rise
to the occasion.

Other serious side effects are possible, but less likely with
brachytherapy than with surgery or external beam radiation
(again - this is my non-expert opinion.)

Good luck.

   Alan
Steve U - 15 May 2005 22:02 GMT
John Raymond
Sorry to learn of your misfortune.
My PCa stuff is:
age 50 PSA 4.5
Bx showed High Grade PIN
5 months later PSA 5.6
repeat Bx 1/12 cores <1mm gleason 3+3=6 stage T1c
RLRP 2-11-04 at age 50
Favorable path, 5 small foci of 3+3, organ contained
Post op PCAs  <0.1
Now dry and have my erection back (better with drugs).
If I had a Gleason 5 and coronary artery trouble, I would get brachy
therapy too.
>From my experience with PIN (going nuts waiting for the repeat biopsy),
I know that the waiting part of watchful waiting is not for me!
Good luck.
Steve U
Steve U - 15 May 2005 22:02 GMT
John Raymond
Sorry to learn of your misfortune.
My PCa stuff is:
age 50 PSA 4.5
Bx showed High Grade PIN
5 months later PSA 5.6
repeat Bx 1/12 cores <1mm gleason 3+3=6 stage T1c
RLRP 2-11-04 at age 50
Favorable path, 5 small foci of 3+3, organ contained
Post op PCAs  <0.1
Now dry and have my erection back (better with drugs).
If I had a Gleason 5 and coronary artery trouble, I would get brachy
therapy too.
>From my experience with PIN (going nuts waiting for the repeat biopsy),
I know that the waiting part of watchful waiting is not for me!
Good luck.
Steve U
kh - 16 May 2005 11:57 GMT
> I've been lurking for a couple of weeks absorbing all the information here
> and would like to introduce myself.
...

> I've talked with my urologist, who feels that surgery is the best answer
> for a "young guy", of course he is a surgeon.  

My uro also strongly advocated for surgery but allowed that Rad
was a viable alternative.  He did give me the "you're young" pitch,
I was 57 at diagnosis.  He referred me to Inova's cancer center
where he has a good rappor with the rad-doc.  

The two of them guided me through this, answering my questions and
taking me through the treatment.  Both were there for the seeding,
and I see both on an alternate basis every three months for a year
for followup.

I wanted the best shot at retaining potency and the minimum
interference with my work and life schedule.  Rad gave that to me,
I have no complaints.  

> I have made the decision to go ahead with the brachytherapy as it fits my
> life style and goals.

What's good is that you have made the decision for treatment.  There
are a few not-so-fun tests and preps but pretty much the same
discomfort as the biopsy.  

Post seeding, you'll probably do better that I did.  I was in the
middle of the 2nd Lupron shot and that knocked my blood sugar to the
sky.

I am 7 months post seeding and doing great.  I've cut out the
Flomax.  The two post seeding PSA's were < 0.1 which is just fine.

The rad doc said that I might see a PSA bounce the next time or at
the 1 year mark but he was optimistic.    
Alan Meyer - 16 May 2005 21:21 GMT
...
> Post seeding, you'll probably do better that I did.  I was in the
> middle of the 2nd Lupron shot and that knocked my blood sugar to the
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> The rad doc said that I might see a PSA bounce the next time or at
> the 1 year mark but he was optimistic.

The Lupron can eliminate all PSA for quite a long time after the
last injection.  In my case I had no detectable PSA until a test about
8 months after my last Lupron shot.  Then the PSA was all over the
map for a while.

Now it seems to be settling back down.  At least I hope it is.  If yours
goes up for a while, don't be too alarmed unless and until you see
a steady upward trend.

   Alan
 
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