Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / May 2005
PSA 5.6
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Jim Turner - 30 Apr 2005 13:39 GMT Age 64
April 2003 PSA = 1.05 April 2004 PSA = .95 April 2005 PSA = 5.6
My GP set me up to see a urologist in two weeks. Needless to say I'm more than a little worried.
I've been reading this group and library books about the prostate and I've gained a lot more knowldege than I had three weeks ago.
I wonder if anyone would tell me what to expect when I see the urologist. I realize the DRE will be one thing, but what else happens on the first visit ? X-rays ? Ultrasound ? I don't really mind, but I figure the more I know the less I'll worry.
Symptoms: Frequent urination for the past four years. Mildly difficult urination for the same period. Started taking saw palmletto on the recommendation of a friend last year and it helps a lot. 80 mg extract once a day.
Jim
James A Honeychuck - 30 Apr 2005 14:33 GMT Welcome to still another Jim.
Some subscribers to this newsgroup have been offered bone scans, but with a PSA of 5.7 I was not given anything but a needle biopsy at Johns Hopkins.
I assume the urologist will offer to do a biopsy within a couple of months because of the sharp rise in the past year, and/or if he or she can feel any abnormalities in the prostate gland.
The biopsy is not a big deal. Many previous posts about it.
jimhoney not a doctor
> Age 64 > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Jim Leonard Evens - 30 Apr 2005 14:40 GMT > Age 64 > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > My GP set me up to see a urologist in two weeks. Needless to say I'm > more than a little worried. That is perfectly normal. The odds are still that you don't have prostate cancer. It could easily be prostatitis. If you do have prostate cancer, it is most likely at an early stage and can be cured.
> I've been reading this group and library books about the prostate and > I've gained a lot more knowldege than I had three weeks ago. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > on the first visit ? X-rays ? Ultrasound ? I don't really mind, but > I figure the more I know the less I'll worry. The urologist will review your case, do another DRE, and will almost certainly recommend a biopsy. As I noted, a large increase like that could be do to prostatitis, and more likely than not, you don't have prostate cancer. But it still has to be ruled out, and a biopsy is the only way to do that. It is unlikely the biopsy will be done at the first appointment since you have to clear the lower part of your colon. The doctor will also likely prescribe antibiotics to avoid infection. Some doctors start you with the pills the day before but others wait until the biopsy. Most men find a biopsy annoying, but tolerable. Mine was like a typical dental procedure. They go more easily if the doctor first gives you a local anesthetic. If for some reason, your biopsy is likely to be difficult, it can be done under sedation. You should get all this straight at your appointment if the doctor decides on a biopsy.
Ultrasound imaging is part of the biopsy procedure, used mainly to guide the probes. Rarely does prostate cancer show up in the ultrasound image. If you do have prostate cancer, your doctor may also order further imaging tests. This might include an MRI of the prostate area or a bone scan to look for metastases. But such tests are hard to interpret and it is not clear they add much in most cases to what the biopsy shows, so many urologists won't bother with them in a typical case. It really depends on the details of the case and the urologist.
> Symptoms: Frequent urination for the past four years. Mildly > difficult urination for the same period. Started taking saw palmletto > on the recommendation of a friend last year and it helps a lot. 80 mg > extract once a day. Saw Palmetto can be a mixed blessing. If I remember correctly it can mask an increase in PSA. Also, it doesn't really do anything that can't be done by prescription drugs.
> Jim Claude - 30 Apr 2005 17:44 GMT "Leonard Evens" <len@math.northwestern.edu> wrote in message
> Saw Palmetto can be a mixed blessing. If I remember correctly it can mask > an increase in PSA. Also, it doesn't really do anything that can't be > done by prescription drugs. Proscar is one of the prescription drugs that also lowers PSA (another of the things my previous internist did not know).
Alan Meyer - 30 Apr 2005 20:15 GMT > ... > Saw Palmetto can be a mixed blessing. If I remember correctly it can mask an increase > in PSA. ... I have seen a number of studies on Pubmed of saw palmetto in the treatment of benign prostatic hyperplasia, for example
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=9609640
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=12092634
that show no effect of saw palmetto on PSA.
But the problem with these studies is that they were on men with BPH, not prostate cancer. It is conceivable to me that saw palmetto acts against PCa, lowering PSA, while not lowering it for men with BPH.
PC-SPES, a mix of eight different herbs including saw palmetto, does appear to lower PSA. See
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra ct&list_uids=11059508
We may have to wait for more evidence before we know whether saw palmetto, by itself, does or does not lower PSA in men with prostate cancer.
But on another topic:
> Also, it doesn't really do anything that can't be done by prescription drugs. This may be an advantage of saw palmetto. It appears to be pretty benign and may be cheaper than the prescription drugs.
Alan
Steve Kramer - 30 Apr 2005 18:09 GMT Fortunately, Jim, you do qualify as a member of our fine group here. And, while your concern is warranted, there are at least three prostate problems that may cause your sudden rise in PSA.
I believe your uro will merely give you the finger wave and interview you. He will then set you up for a biopsy. BTW, you need not get a second opinion. You will want a biopsy with as many needles as they are willing to throw into the prostate. If you have cancer, you want to know now while you can still cure it.
Once you have the biopsy, if it's clean, your uro will probably set you up with antibiotics to see if they work on your prostate problem. Of course, you'll get antibiotics for the biopsy too.
If the biopsy shows cancer, they may send you to a bone scan and CAT scan, but those are almost unnecessary at your PSA level (depending on the stage and Gleason).
At that point, you will go into research overdrive trying to find the best treatment for Jim Turner. We will all help, of course, but the decision will be yours.
And, I'm getting ahead of myself. It is our sincerest hope that you never join our club, but if you do, you will be welcome with open arms.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum
> Age 64 > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Jim Dick Smith - 01 May 2005 00:46 GMT Should Jim also be given a FreePSA test also?
Jim Turner - 29 May 2005 12:31 GMT > Age 64 > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > on the recommendation of a friend last year and it helps a lot. 80 mg > extract once a day. I want to thank everyone for their kind and thoughtful replies. I went to the Urologist a few days ago. I know as little today as I did when I posted this.
He took my history and did a DRE. He said he wanted me to take another PSA in two months. That was it. I figured he might tell me something about the results of the DE, but I was wrong. I was in and out pretty fast.
A couple weeks before the appointment, I was pretty worried so I went to a local lab and had another PSA. I suppose I had hoped that there had been a mistake on the first test. This time it showed a reading of 2.4. Which shows there was no mistake, but it was lower than the first (5.6). The first and second were from different labs and I realize they vary. Surely the doctor wasn't offended by my having done this ?
Whatever, I'm suppose to see him again in July.
Reuben Rothstein - 29 May 2005 16:16 GMT Jim,
I am 65 and went though a very similar series of events.
Don't settle for anything less than a biopsy, none of the tests are as accurate as biopsy. Further more early detection is crucial in over coming any problem, if there is any.
Reuben
>> Age 64 >> [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > >Whatever, I'm suppose to see him again in July. OCL - 29 May 2005 16:21 GMT >> Age 64 >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >> My GP set me up to see a urologist in two weeks. Needless to say I'm >> more than a little worried.
> He took my history and did a DRE. He said he wanted me to take another > PSA in two months. That was it. I figured he might tell me something > about the results of the DE, but I was wrong. I was in and out pretty > fast.
> A couple weeks before the appointment, I was pretty worried so I went to > a local lab and had another PSA. I suppose I had hoped that there had [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Whatever, I'm suppose to see him again in July. Jim: You mentioned in the your first note that you were worried and now you say that you are "pretty worried" and so you went to a local lab for another PSA. If I were in your situation and felt the kind of worry and anxiety that it sounds like you are feeling, that alone would lead me to get a second opinion from another urologist and I would ask that urologist for an ultrasound and, more importantly, a biopsy.
I would ask your first urologist's office for a copy of your records in which should be some indication if the urologist felt anything in the DRE. He should have told you when he did it, but didn't. I hate it when that happens. You have a right to know.
Since you've had the urination problems and saw palmetto helped, it could be that you have a low grade infection or inflammation or an enlarged prostate. That could kick out that level of PSA and give you the urination problems. But, you are worried that you might have Prostate Cancer and if you have PCa you want to know as early as possible. There is no good reason not to do one.
Best wishes! I know this is the pits, but you'll be okay! I doubt that the urologist felt anything in the DRE or he wouldn't be waiting until July (at least if he is competent he didn't feel anything). Your PSA has bounced around some. Get a second opinion if you can.
You don't need to live with the worry!
OCL
Steve Kramer - 29 May 2005 17:14 GMT Jim,
Doctors are as concerned for their work, on average, about as much as anybody else is, on average. Computer techs look at their work and don't explain themselves. Firemen put out fires and don't explain themselves. But, if you ask a question, some of them will talk for hours.
Call your new urologist's office and tell the nurse that you are scared, that the doc told you nothing and you have some questions. He'll call you later in the day, probably. Have a list of questions waiting. Your first one should be, "hey doc, what do you think it is?"
And the next time, ask the questions at your appointment. Sometimes, you have to catch him on the way out and say, "doc?" My doc is like that. He's in and out until I say, "doc?" Then he sits down and we talk.
Speaking of which, during my visit on Thursday, I told him that I'm having incontinence problems while golfing. He asked me how my game was going. I told him it was getting noticeably better last year, but this year it's really bad. He looked at me and said, "you know, now that you are on Lupron, you can hit from the ladies' tees."
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum
> > Age 64 > > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Whatever, I'm suppose to see him again in July. OCL - 29 May 2005 20:00 GMT > He looked at me and said, "you know, now that you are on > Lupron, you can hit from the ladies' tees." Steve: I hope your uro doesn't mind if I pass this along to a friend of mine who is on Lupron and is golfing! How funny! Love the wit!
OCL
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