Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / March 2005
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Horace Ridge - 26 Mar 2005 21:54 GMT I was diagnosed a year ago with enlarged prostate. I take 5mg of Proscar daily. I had Polio in 1940 at age 10 and am confined to a wheelchair and lately notice slight pain in the penis which seems to let up a little when I get out of the chair. I also have had 2 heart attacks and a triple heart bypass, I also have arthritis, a 3 centimeter tumor on one kidney, high blood pressure, Diabetes type 2, Colon problems, Eyesight getting poor, various other aches and pains.. I am 75 years old, 5'8" 200 pounds and keep hoping my heart will take me and not have to put up with these other ailments. Can anyone tell me what to expect next with the prostate problem,my doctor doesn't talk much....or answer questions easily. I am not depressed and have no fear of death,but I am afraid of pain...Thanks in advance for your help. ...in Ohio
Stavros Moschos - 26 Mar 2005 22:33 GMT Dear Horace,
I, too, have serious other problems plus PCa. (I am 76.)
First, having an enlarged prostate does not mean that you have PCa and there is no reason to fear something that you have no reason to think that you have. Nor do I think (and others may help on this) that any consequences of an enlarged prostate include great pain or pain that can't be managed, Has your doctor taken PSA tests as part of your usual blood work? You can certainly ask him point blank if he has considered a biopsy and just tell him your worry.
But I would tell you not to worry yourself about pain--you have enough to deal with. Even if you were to develop PCa, the pain you fear would still be down the road. Don't upset yourself about something that may never happen and you have no real reason to think will happen.
>I was diagnosed a year ago with enlarged prostate. I take 5mg of Proscar > daily. I had Polio in 1940 at age 10 and am confined to a wheelchair and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I am not depressed and have no fear of death,but I am afraid of > pain...Thanks in advance for your help. ...in Ohio I. P. Freely - 26 Mar 2005 23:56 GMT 1. RUN to a different doctor. Not because you MAY have PC; because your doctor is all but useless when you need facts for your peace of mind, not merely procedures and pills to preserve your pulse.
2. Keep asking questions here, elsewhere, and with your next doctors, and take advantage of your sedentary lifestyle to dig into the internet and a bookstore. There's great peace of mind in knowledge, and it can get you through much of this.
3. I hear that pain part. Living's fine, death's fine if inevitable and imminent, but dying in severe pain is a crappy, avoidable way to end a good life like you've led (else you'd be depressed). Pain is curable in at least four, often sequential, ways: a) meds that leave us conscious and alert, b) meds -- primarily big doses of morphine -- that render us essentially unconscious, c) refusing food and water, and d) more active solutions. I have no intention of putting my wife through prolonged (b), so if (c) is denied by some damned lawyer or judge or whining activist, my (d) is going to be highly dramatic, very messy, thoroughly explained, and very public, to make a point for all to consider. No one but my wife or myself gets to dictate the end of my life.
I.P.
>I was diagnosed a year ago with enlarged prostate. I take 5mg of Proscar > daily. I had Polio in 1940 at age 10 and am confined to a wheelchair and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > I am not depressed and have no fear of death,but I am afraid of > pain...Thanks in advance for your help. ...in Ohio Heather - 27 Mar 2005 03:48 GMT Well, that was a bloody uplifting, supportive answer (sarcasm mode on)!!
And how the hell can you make such inane judgements based on one post from a man who has many serious ailments, and merely wants some reassurance and advice on BPH.....not one of your bombastic ravings about the medical profession or right to die or whatever your latest *cause* is...
This is exactly the type of crappy post that I personally object to you, because you don't stop to think how you affect either this poor man or any other person who is lurking and wants some reassurance or solid answers.
Now....just back off on your personal vendettas and try answering with some semblance of caring or support....it would be a most pleasant change. But unfortunately, not likely to happen.
I could killfile you.....but I would rather make sure you are not off on another one of your tirades and scaring the hell out of newbies.
I make no apologies to the ng for this post. You have no idea how many I have written, then deleted. But I draw the line at his frightening folks away from the caring, supportive people that are on here.
I just realized......it has been 2 years exactly since I first came on here looking for help and answers.....you guys are the best!! And Bev too, grin.
Heather
> I.P.'s self-indulgent ranting snipped....... > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > I am not depressed and have no fear of death,but I am afraid of > > pain...Thanks in advance for your help. ...in Ohio Clarence Crow - 27 Mar 2005 19:27 GMT >I make no apologies to the ng for this post. You have no idea how many I >have written, then deleted. But I draw the line at his frightening folks >away from the caring, supportive people that are on here. <snip> I guess you, (and a lot of others in the inner circle), also either killfile, ignore or draw the line at refractory, pragmatic, old Aussie bastards on Rad as well...
-- Reader to complete... -- Please reply to this ng as my email adress is fake:
-- Regards
-- CC
Heather - 27 Mar 2005 19:43 GMT > >I make no apologies to the ng for this post. You have no idea how many I have written, then deleted. But I draw the line at his frightening folks
> >away from the caring, supportive people that are on here. > <snip>
> I guess you, (and a lot of others in the inner circle), also either > killfile, ignore or draw the line at refractory, pragmatic, old Aussie > bastards on Rad as well... Nah!! I like pragnatic, old Aussie bastards (on Rad or off).....grin. My best bud on the internet lives in Queensland and he is a hoot!! You guys have the most wicked sense of humour, which I love.
I just didn't have an answer for your question......and perhaps that is the same for the others on here. I believe it was re a TURP possibly causing flow problems and that you are now on Flomax.
Ron had the same HDR treatment as you did....but had no flow problems. And he unfortunately had a very bad reaction to the Flomax. Good thing he didn't need it. He kept passing out when he stood up for 24 hours after just one pill. They hadn't seen that at the hospital before either.
Hopefully the Flomax does the job and you don't need the catheter. The way they do the HDR here is two 6-hour day sessions at the hospital...and the catheter comes out just before we leave. As he was frozen with a saddle block anaesthesia, he never felt it. Don't know if that helps you at all.
Cheers from the top side of the world.....Heather (and Ron)
Clarence Crow - 27 Mar 2005 20:50 GMT <snip>
>> I guess you, (and a lot of others in the inner circle), also either >> killfile, ignore or draw the line at refractory, pragmatic, old Aussie [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Cheers from the top side of the world.....Heather (and Ron) Glad to be WBd into the circle ;) Just to set the record straight, I was getting restricted flow after my 3rd session of 23 of EBRT. My total HDR is way down the track, like mid July, when I have 3 sessions in 48hrs, with a day each end. I actually either get the epidural or the general anaesthetic, (my choice, plus dependent on other medical symptoms), on my 70th birthday, July 11, 2005. What a blast! The Flomax is working wonders right now. I WAS warned about the effect of it's lowering your blood pressure and possibly causing dizziness or passing out, but only had one close call on that on the 2nd day when I had overlapped the timing of the dosage. BTW: I now have experienced the "2 tier" Medicare system here. They gave me a card on it at the Hospital Pharmacy. But because I'm "ancient", I still only pay AUD4.60 per scrip up to 52 scrips when they become free. Additionally, I'm to see a Uro outside the Program and he will bill me at the "ancient's" rate. Then I get an "ancient's" Medicare Rebate, which means I'll only end up paying around AUD10.00 for him.
I'm currently working on a scheme to disguise my apparent **affluence and receive at least AUD1.00 of the Aged Pension, just to get the "freebie" benefits. It's damned difficult to get as most of the money is reserved for the "great unwashed" drug addicts and unemployables of ALL races.
** I have over AUD3,000.00 worth of Bills sitting in the in-tray, including GST to pay by March 31!!. Puts a hole in the bucket :-(
-- Reader to complete... -- Please reply to this ng as my email adress is fake:
-- Regards
-- CC
Heather - 27 Mar 2005 21:06 GMT G'day Mate......sorry for the mixup. I knew your HDR was down the road, but blame it on failing brain cells, grin.
Your medical system is very, very similar to ours. We pay either $4.11 or $6.11 after an initial $100 in August, for each prescription, regardless of the real price. There is some *gold* in these Golden Years after all. (G) And we have GST as well as you. Must be the Brit influence after all these years. LOL.
Take care and Ron had a saddle block anaesthesia, which in his opinion was the best way to go......but that is up to you and your doctors.
All the best.....Heather (and I know of what you speak with regard to your influx of unemployables......thanks to my friend in Queensland)
> Glad to be WBd into the circle ;) > Just to set the record straight, I was getting restricted flow after [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > -- CC I. P. Freely - 28 Mar 2005 18:48 GMT "Heather" <janeysmith@hotmail.com> spewed
> Well, that was a bloody uplifting, supportive answer (sarcasm mode on)!! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > have written, then deleted. But I draw the line at his frightening folks > away from the caring, supportive people that are on here.
> I.P.'s self-indulgent ranting snipped....... Lessee -- 1. I gave Harold advice that may greatly increase his knowledge of his problems, may mitigate or even cure some of them, and may thus give him greater peace of mind. Nothing I know of disperses fear as thoroughly and lastingly as knowledge about the source of the fear, and a good doctor should provide that.
2. I encouraged him to keep asking questions of all available sources, and pointed out an advantage of his mandatory sedentary lifestyle, that it gives him far more time to research his issues than most of us feel we can spare.
3. And then in one paragraph I a) agreed with him that pain IS worthy of fear, that he's not alone in feeling that way; b) commented on his strong spirit as manifested by his lack of depression in the face of adversity and surmised that it indicated he has had a good life (which I find very comforting whenever I consider playing Woe Is Me, which I don't see in Harold's post); c) gave him an escalating sequence of four means of eliminating or mitigating his worst fear: pain; and d) illustrated dramatically that not only can we stop being victims, but we can also help motivate others to stop being victims, and maybe even influence "the system", through heightened public awareness, to let more people choose their own final chapter, as Harold implies he'd prefer.
Now, what did YOU contribute to Harold or to the topic in general? You offered nothing but vitriol, I tried to offer substantive help. I can't please everybody, so I was trying to help Harold, not please you. And to top it off, now you've hijacked Harold's thread to indulge in your shoulder problem. Is that your "caring support"? To each his own.
I.P.
>> >I was diagnosed a year ago with enlarged prostate. I take 5mg of Proscar >> > daily. I had Polio in 1940 at age 10 and am confined to a wheelchair [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> > I am not depressed and have no fear of death,but I am afraid of >> > pain...Thanks in advance for your help. ...in Ohio Heather - 28 Mar 2005 19:35 GMT >>>I'll close with my pain story, hopefully you'll get a laugh at my expense<<<
I was merely replying to the above statement.......which followed an excellent explanation to HORACE about his problems by "ckh".
HF
> And to top it off, now you've hijacked Harold's thread to indulge in your > shoulder problem. > Is that your "caring support"? > To each his own. > > I.P. Tom Cular - 28 Mar 2005 21:25 GMT I.P., I must give you credit (9 out of a possible 10) for being the most negative and abrasive personality I've heard from in this group in the past year and a half. You've been dealt a tough hand to play, for sure; there is no doubt about that, and I'm sure that influences your thinking and your attitude. I'm not advocating a "Polly-Anna attitude", but is it so difficult to not dwell on the negative aspects of this disease, it's treatments and possible side effects and to not condem treatments that others have chosen or had (possibly without any knowlege of treatment options or effects)? Not everyone in this boat has the options available to you ( having been on the Govt. tit for your short career). Make a fresh pot, and smell the coffee! Tom
> >>>I'll close with my pain story, hopefully you'll get a laugh at my > expense<<< [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > > > I.P. Olfart - 28 Mar 2005 21:54 GMT > I.P., > I must give you credit (9 out of a possible 10) for being the most negative [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Make a fresh pot, and smell the coffee! > Tom I'll drink to that - double cream, no sugar
I. P. Freely - 29 Mar 2005 01:23 GMT > I.P., > I must give you credit (9 out of a possible 10) for being the most [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Govt. tit for your short career). > Make a fresh pot, and smell the coffee! Let me get this straight. I try to relate useful facts, sometimes add topical opinions and suggestions identified as such and intended to help solve a PC problem, and avoid ad hominem attacks. Heather: 1. Posts five messages in this thread, all unrelated to Horace's plea for help, 2. Posts a venomous, inane, OT, unhelpful, non-responsive, ad hominem assault in Horace's thread, 3. Hijacks Horace's thread to whine about her shoulder and chit chat OT about OZ and Aussies? 4. Offers not one shred of assistance, not even the hugs she advocates, to Horace. After which you say I'm more negative and abrasive than Heather.
That manifestation of your judgment, neutrality, and observational powers renders your opinion of me moot, IMO. While I WANT to be surrounded by touchy-feely people and pleasant chatter when I have no more dilemmas and only one faculty left and pull my plug, I need PROBLEM-SOLVERS when I have a problem to solve. Maybe it hasn't dawned on some of you that I'm on the computer to solve problems -- mine or anyone else's that I may help -- not have a party. This isn't a social event for me; it's a job, and I don't have the time, skills, or desire to pursue the impossible task of satisfying every personality.
The archives are at your fingertips. Please show where I've "dwelled on negatives" other than to respond with facts when others mislead newbies about treatment pros and cons. And while in the archives, please show where I've ever condemned (look in the dictionary) treatments others have chosen. What "short career" are you talking about? And are you now denigrating veterans' rights?
If your "fresh coffee" is a euphemism for sticking one's head in the sand, I decline. My life's far too important to me and my wife to consider only one side of a life-altering issue. Again . . . do you want your hypothetical son to don rose-colored glasses and read coffee grounds to choose his fate, or would you rather he educate himself and select treatment based on facts, pros and cons?
If some of you would concentrate more on PROSTATE CANCER and less on how others choose to address it, maybe we could stay more on topic, learn a few more PC facts, hear a few more PC opinions, stir up less rancor, and actually help a few people deal with their PC rather than criticizing how others choose to live their lives and write about PC.
I apologize to Horace for allowing myself to get sucked off-topic by the PC Police. Best wishes to a fellow who appears to be keeping a level head despite a huge slate of medical problems. I think that demonstrates a sound, solid psyche, which will probably serve you very well over the coming years.
Now can we make this about Horace again, rather than about whether people like my work face?
I.P.
Steve Kramer - 29 Mar 2005 22:32 GMT You should have been here when Wolfgang was pissin' all over everyone. IP is 2nd at best.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum
> I.P., > I must give you credit (9 out of a possible 10) for being the most negative [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > > > > > I.P. ckh - 28 Mar 2005 13:53 GMT > I was diagnosed a year ago with enlarged prostate. ...
> I am not depressed and have no fear of death,but I am afraid of > pain...Thanks in advance for your help. ...in Ohio If your enlarged prostate makes urinating difficult, your doc's may recommend medication or surgery to open up the passages, but nothing like what you experienced with a triple bypass.
At your age and with your other health issues, if you are diagnosed with prostate cancer in the future, they might recommend a dose of hormones or some external radiation therapy.
For either hormones or rad, the side effects generally fall into the category of "mild discomfort", easily tolerated.
I say that while griping about hormones. What happened to me is probably not applicable to you or it may be an issue.
When I was diagnosed with prostate cancer, I also clocked a fasting blood sugar of 130. My doc said to handle the cancer, 1st priority and knock off 10 pounds, then we'll look at the sugars.
A fasting 130 isn't good but when you weigh 197 and stand 5'7" and fly a desk, it just says to get off your butt, knock some weight off, and get some exercise.
Well, I went around the barn and back with the cancer, lots of high tech tests, two Lupron shots, 25 IMRT sessions, 97 Palladium-103 seeds, I was buying Fleets by the caselot.
I was feeling good about the cancer, two < 0.1 PSAs, the hot flashes were fading, I was sleeping through the night, but then the doc did another fasting blood sugar, 300.
The kicker is, this is after losing 12 pounds.
It's been suggested (by I.P.) that the Lupron slamming my Testosterone is responsible for the high blood sugar. I sure hope so.
I was supposed to get the 3rd Lupron shot at the end of January. I declined it. At that time I had one < 0.1 PSA, since then, early March, I had the 2nd < 0.1 PSA.
I'm a little more confident that I did the right thing. (I'm going on and on about the sugar because diabetes is one of your issues.)
The doc put me on Glucophage in February. He doubled the dose a couple weeks ago.
I'm 2 months past due for the Lupron. My weight is dropping at the rate of about one pound a month. As the fatigue (a side effect of both the Lupron and Radiation) fades, I've been increasing my level of exercise.
In the last two weeks, my morning blood sugar has dropped from 200 to below 150 in a gradual descending arc. 200, 180, 160, 150, I've had a couple readings below 150 so I am encouraged.
I don't know if it's the glucophage, the exercise, the diet (no more 32 ounce Pepsi's, no white bread, small quantities of carbs), the weight loss, the rising testosterone, or what.
My opinion - The treatment for prostate cancer can be very easy, no pain, not even discomfort.
There are complex side effects to the treatments. I am very wary of the Lupron. I actually hope it's the Lupron, which will fade, and not some catastrophic endocrine system failure.
That my blood sugar is falling is encouraging.
I'll close with my pain story, hopefully you'll get a laugh at my expense.
Last summer, the guys I work with were going on and on about a Ryobi weedwacker with detachable cutting heads. I got one.
I was eager to try it out. I filled the tank with the 2-stroke fuel and, PULL! P-p-p-pup-pup.
PULL! P-p-p-pup-pup.
PULL! P-p-p-pup-pup.
PULL! P-p-p-pup-pup.
Then I looked down and saw the red switch. OFF-ON.
The next day my arm hurt.
Over the next few months, it kept on hurting. I didn't pay much attention as I was pre-occupied with finding the best prices for Fleets, it's the six-pack at Sam's Club.
Then after all the treatment, about December, I noticed that my right arm was hurting like I've never felt pain before.
If I picked up my umbrella from the passenger seat, my shoulder hurt like a knife stabbing into the joint. Once I reached back to get a newspaper off the back seat and it hurt so bad that I almost passed out. This is a blinding, paralyzing pain.
I finally went to an orthopedic surgeon. It's called a "frozen shoulder", he said. It will get better on it's own over 3-5 years.
I can go to physical therapy where a 6 foot tall blonde Valkyrie named Brunhilde will teach me discipline and the joy of pain.
Or, the doc can knock me out for 2 minutes and just YANK on my arm.
I looked up some exercises on the Internet and have been doing them for the last month. I do not have full mobility yet but I am much better. The doc said, "you can't do it yourself, it will hurt too much."
Well, maybe.
Heather - 28 Mar 2005 18:25 GMT You did have me in stitches......I have had a frozen shoulder and it ain't fun, grin. Mine just came on for no apparent reason. But it crept up on me so slowly that by the time I hit an arthritis doctor, I had no use of my left arm from the shoulder to the elbow......muscles had atrophied.
Btw.....the (EX) family doctor (a total jerk) partially owned an alleged physio clinic.....wasted 9 months at this useless place. The specialist was rather angry with said Family Doc (saw it in her face) and I had a shot of cortisone in the rotator cuff at the hospital. I had always said I would NEVER have a shot of cortisone, but you can imagine how that went out the window with the pain I had.
3 months of PROPER physio at the hospital (which wasn't all that bad to be honest) and the cortisone shot gave me back 95% of the use of my arm.
Then my chiropractor asked if he could try something that might be painful. I said "sure". He manipulated the shoulder and arm and tore the lesions that had formed down deep, which restricted full movement. It wasn't the least bit painful....but I have a pretty high pain threshold.
They did tell me at the hospital that they could do the knocking out and yanking it (tearing the lesions I assume) but that it would be rather painful afterwards for a bit. So I passed on that one. Apparently they do a 360 degree *swing* with the arm to tear them.
Keep on doing the exercises....use those stretchy bands and stuff. This will work. It must be genetic coz my younger sister has had both shoulders frozen and just went the physio route.
Cheers.....Heather (still chuckling at "On/Off Switch", lol)
> I'll close with my pain story, hopefully you'll get a laugh at my > expense. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Well, maybe.
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