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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / March 2005

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Looking for help after Bladder/Prostate removed

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pcrider - 24 Mar 2005 03:22 GMT
I'm a single, 47 year old male. I had surgery about 3 years ago. I had
Invasive Bladder cancer, and the doctor told me my only option was to
have it(the bladder) removed. He wanted me to have a "neo-bladder"
surgery(they use a section of your colon to create a new bladder), said
it would let me have a normal life after a few exercises.

The Day Before the surgery, in the hospital already on medications, was
the first time he mentioned that I "MIGHT" have problems with erections
after the surgery, and have to take viagra. He failed to mention at any
time that removing the prostate would end ejaculation completely. He
also failed to mention that I would be sterile, for lack of any
ejaculation at all. He also failed to mention that he would make no
attempt to save the nerves needed to have erections. In short he sold me
on the operation like a bad used car salseman. Not telling me these
things in time that I could have looked at the options has trully
destroyed my life. There were options at the time.

The reality is that going to the bathroom has become my whole life. I
have trouble doing the exercises that do seem to help with bladder
control. I have always had ADD, though I was never treated for it, and I
just can't seem to keep up the routine of constantly doing them.

Bowel movements are very small because of the smaller colon, and
therefore frequent to the extreme. My back side gets really sore from
going all the time. Often I have to stay at home until I'm sure I've got
it out of the way for a while, causing me to avoid any kind of social
commitments.

I can't have erections at all. Taking the oral drugs does almost nothing
at all - I feel a little flushed, but thats about it. Even using the
injections produces only a shadow of what I would call an erection. I
could have penetration sex, but the penis is very small and deformed
when using the injections. I don't have to tell you that it isn't fun to
use a needle on your penis.

I am looking for ways to improve the situation. I need to at least be
able to have a fairly normal erection if I'm ever going to have a normal
life. Currently my motivation is about zero.

I often dream of shooting the bastard that did this to me in the back.
Looking at him as he lay on the ground realizing that I just paralized
him for life, and repeating those words back to him, "well it's better
than being dead".

Mike Brooksher
I. P. Freely - 24 Mar 2005 04:03 GMT
1. I had both my prostate and three feet of colon removed at the same time 6
months ago. I can still have orgasms, may regain erections some day (no hope
of NATURAL, unaided erections for you at 3 years out), and see minimal
effect on my bowel habits (softer stool, primarily, often requiring extra
paperwork, but no other inconvenience). Other than using more TP and diaper
rash ointment than a year ago, my colon resection was a bump in the road.
2. I'd sue this nincompoop up one side and down the other, IF he had any
other way to save your life without making you sterile and impotent. He
should have informed you OF THE SIDE EFFECTS OF YOUR TREATMENT. OTOH, I'd
guess he had no other options.
3. Actually you can still father a child; it just won't be as much FUN as it
would have been four years ago, because your orgasms will squirt urine
rather than sperm -- a given with any prostatectomy -- and because gathering
your sperm will involve your doctor rather than your lover.
4. It's pretty likely that before your PC reached your bladder, it involved
the nerves that control erection, in which case they were doomed anyway.
5. I don't have ADD, and it's STILL tough to remember to do my Kegels.
Schedule them into any of several electronic reminders and do them by the
clock.
6. You and/or your partner can still provide your orgasms -- unless maybe
your doc used a cherry bomb to remove your prostate and bladder -- and there
are several ways to do the same for your parner, with or without medical,
surgical, and/or mechanical technology. I'd think that exploring the many
alternative routes to solo or duet orgasm may take your minds off the
methods that don't work anymore.
7. Vent. Get thoroughly pissed off. Chew the SOB out loudly from his crowded
waiting room and inform the state medical boards for his not telling you of
the SEs even if they were unavoidable.
8. Find out why removal of a small piece of colon caused your bowel
problems. That doesn't seem right to me, but I'm a patient, not a doctor.
This may be medically or therapeutically repairable and/or legally
actionable.
9. Then concentrate on #6. You aren't GONNA have a thoroughly normal life
again, but then who does . . .  past, oh, about, say . . .  47? By then most
of us need glasses, and many start to feel a little stiffer where we don't
want to feel stiff and a little less stiff where we DO want to feel stiff.

I.P.

> I'm a single, 47 year old male. I had surgery about 3 years ago. I had
> Invasive Bladder cancer, and the doctor told me my only option was to
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> Mike Brooksher
pcrider - 25 Mar 2005 17:39 GMT
I have just recently had a colonoscopy done, and it showed that the
colon is restricted, "shrunk" at the sight where I had radiation therapy
close to the anus. I am still checking into it, but so far all the
doctors I've talked to say it would require another surgery to fix, and
they don't recomend it.

As for "he had no other options" Please don't say that, it was never up
to him. Until he is the only surgen in the world there ARE options.
By not telling me he cheated me out of a descicion that was mine and
only mine to make no matter what the outcome. The fact that nerve
graphing was already in practice even as close as the KU Med Center
where I see a Urologist now regularly.... OK you said he should have
told me, your right, but NEVER give the choice to your doctor. Don't
even imply that a doctor has reason, or the right to make the decision.
If you allow that you will always be at the mercy of the first moron you
see.

Other than that Thank you for the encouragement sincerely,

Mike Brooksher

> 1. I had both my prostate and three feet of colon removed at the same
> time 6 months ago. I can still have orgasms, may regain erections some
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
>>
>> Mike Brooksher
I. P. Freely - 26 Mar 2005 03:28 GMT
> I have just recently had a colonoscopy done, and it showed that the
> colon is restricted, "shrunk" at the sight where I had radiation therapy
> close to the anus. I am still checking into it, but so far all the
> doctors I've talked to say it would require another surgery to fix, and
> they don't recomend it.

One of the main reasons I chose RP over RT.

> As for "he had no other options" Please don't say that, it was never up
> to him. Until he is the only surgen in the world there ARE options.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> where I see a Urologist now regularly.... OK you said he should have
> told me, your right, but NEVER give the choice to your doctor.

If your neurovascular bundles were cancerous, you indeed had no options
(other than a sural nerve graft, which would be highly unlikely to help if
both nerves had to go).

I.P.
pcrider - 26 Mar 2005 13:22 GMT
>> I have just recently had a colonoscopy done, and it showed that the
>> colon is restricted, "shrunk" at the sight where I had radiation
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> I.P.

It was up to me not him, particulars about the cancer will not change
that. I don't understand your motives for trying to justify what he did,
but I'm not going to argue about it. I just wish people were protected
from doctors like the one I had.

Mike Brooksher
I. P. Freely - 26 Mar 2005 22:28 GMT
"pcrider" <p_c_r_i_d_e_r@c_o_x.n_e_t> wrote >
> It was up to me, not him [to choose based on SEs],
> particulars about the cancer will not change
> that. . . .  I just wish people were protected
> from doctors like the one I had.

It's left up to us patients to do that. It takes little more than a flicker
of interest from a relevant listener for me to launch into a "vehement
tirade" about the complexity of PC and the necessity of researching it. I
don't force it on them, but if they ask a few questions in response to my
opening sentence or paragraph, they're going to get some thorough answers. I
don't know of any other way to help others avoid the avoidable aspects of
PC -- e.g., delayed detection, advanced cancer, inappropriate treatments, SE
surprises -- than pitching the necessity of reading to anyone who has a
prostate or loves anyone with a prostate.

I think we have almost an obligation to offer appropriate listeners a
sentence or three meant to raise their curiosity. If they respond with
interest -- as MANY do -- I gradually introduce more information on the
importance of early detection, PC's complexity, the need for reading up on
it and selecting a special doctor and getting second and third opinions from
all three PC specialties, then, if they wish, direct answers to their more
detailed questions.

Who but us is gonna do this? Few doctors have the time, and not that many
even KNOW some of the major SEs.

I.P.
Steve Kramer - 24 Mar 2005 09:42 GMT
Though it's off topic, I'm sure in the last three years you've had occasion
to research your condition; albeit too late.  What did you find regarding
alternatives to surgery?

Signature

PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0
Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05
PSA  .07 .05 .06 .05

non Illegitimi carborundum

> I'm a single, 47 year old male. I had surgery about 3 years ago. I had
> Invasive Bladder cancer, and the doctor told me my only option was to
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> Mike Brooksher
James A Honeychuck - 24 Mar 2005 13:22 GMT
I hate to sound unsympathetic to someone like Mike who is really
suffering.  But we are living in the information age, when it takes only
seconds to find anything from authoritative information to wild rumors
on the Internet.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/treatment/bladder/Patient/page4

Surely there's an on/off topic lesson to be learned here.  Don't go
under the knife passively, **seek out** full information on what the
doctor is offering.

jimhoney

> Though it's off topic, I'm sure in the last three years you've had occasion
> to research your condition; albeit too late.  What did you find regarding
> alternatives to surgery?
Clarence Crow - 24 Mar 2005 21:27 GMT
>I hate to sound unsympathetic to someone like Mike who is really
>suffering.  But we are living in the information age, when it takes only
>seconds to find anything from authoritative information to wild rumors
>on the Internet.

<snip>
(excerpt from previous reply)
/begin
Exactly! Both my Rad Onc and PC Physician (GP), guffaw loudly when I
espouse anything I've gleaned from the net, albeit a kosher website or
a usenet group. They just say the net's full of misleading crap!

So I asked them each, did they reserve the right to mislead me and
feel their positions were under threat?

Just more GUFFAWs from each of them, and "Gerroutofheah" or I'll bill
you for a double appointment!
/end

-- Reader to complete...
-- Please reply to this ng as my email adress is fake:

-- Regards

-- CC
I. P. Freely - 24 Mar 2005 22:05 GMT
Don't these docs realize that "the net" includes all the major research
universities and hospitals, the entire alphabet soup of cancer agencies,
pros and cons of meds from A33 monoclonal antibodies to Zoloft, the contents
of worldwide trials, peer-reviewed studies and meta-studies of many of those
trials, Quackwatch, and countless other reliable resources? It's those docs
who should be laughed at, at least once a patient demonstrates the ability
to distinguish facts from opinions from BS. Mine give me homework
assignments now, such as, "Go read up on this med and that protocol and tell
me what you find."

The funny part is when I come back with, "Nobody knows. It's all still
guesswork, with clinical trials TBD", to which the doc knowingly smiles and
says, "Just thought I'd let you find that out for yourself, and hoped maybe
you'd find something useful we'd not seen yet."

I.P.

>>I hate to sound unsympathetic to someone like Mike who is really
>>suffering.  But we are living in the information age, when it takes only
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Just more GUFFAWs from each of them, and "Gerroutofheah" or I'll bill
> you for a double appointment!
pcrider - 25 Mar 2005 18:10 GMT
You are really kidding yourself! There is a lot of information out
there, thats the problem. Finding information that applies to you when
you know only what your doctor tells you leaves you at his/her mercy.
You think its as simple as typing in "bladder cancer" at google? Knock
yourself out, now go tell your doctor you know it all, and see what
happens.

> I hate to sound unsympathetic to someone like Mike who is really
> suffering.  But we are living in the information age, when it takes
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>> occasion to research your condition; albeit too late.  What did you
>> find regarding alternatives to surgery?
pcrider - 25 Mar 2005 18:04 GMT
> Though it's off topic, I'm sure in the last three years you've had
> occasion to research your condition; albeit too late.  What did you
> find regarding alternatives to surgery?

First off it was bladder cancer, not prostate cancer. The prostate was
removed as a side effect. Second there was no alternative to surgery. I
am sure of that. I've talked to people who have had bladder resections
done, removing only part of the bladder, and leaving normal usage. What
other treatments actually apply to me I can't say. I have only his
diagnosis to go by, the bladder/prostate is gone I can't get a second
opinion.

My biggest gripe is I could have at the very least had the nerve
graphing done, so I could have a normal relationship. Also although I am
not thinking about it now, I was at the time still hoping (though only a
little) that I might have another child. Whether it ever happened or
not, I could have at least done a little sperm banking so I could have
the choice should the opportunity arise.

Mike Brooksher
I. P. Freely - 26 Mar 2005 03:23 GMT
The sural nerve graft helps the odds of potence VERY little, if any, if the
neurovascular bundles must be removed, and your doc should have discussed
all that long before treatment. This is why several of us harangue people
about researching before choosing.

I.P.

> My biggest gripe is I could have at the very least had the nerve
> graphing done, so I could have a normal relationship. Also although I am
> not thinking about it now, I was at the time still hoping (though only a
> little) that I might have another child. Whether it ever happened or
> not, I could have at least done a little sperm banking so I could have
> the choice should the opportunity arise.
jhlms - 26 Mar 2005 04:00 GMT
I.P.
Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda............
My God, man...I'm sure pcrider is real impressed with you opinions of what
he SHOULD have done, but right now he SEEMS to be looking for support from a
group that touts support, but only offers advise on what he should have
done.  Not a lot of support there, pilgrim.
The damage has been done.  It's been three years, and our friend is still
suffering, and you choose to explain what he should have done to prevent (or
at best mitigate) his loss..........??????   That's not support.  That's
bullshit !!!
If we REALLY want to support our comrade, we'll put away the shoulda,
coulda's and give this man at least a freakin' hug................
Damn!!!!!!

jh
> The sural nerve graft helps the odds of potence VERY little, if any, if
> the neurovascular bundles must be removed, and your doc should have
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>> not, I could have at least done a little sperm banking so I could have
>> the choice should the opportunity arise.
I. P. Freely - 26 Mar 2005 06:19 GMT
I suggested to him that the nerve graft he wishes he had gotten would not
have helped him, so maybe he can stop agonizing over it. That factoid should
last years, whereas a hug lasts for minutes.

Then I gave him a fact he can use as rationale for switching doctors or
confronting this one: the doc was wrong in not discussing all this in
advance.

Then I put his justified misery to good use as an example, motivation, and
encouragement for others to do more homework and for him to do more next
time.

So in one short paragraph, I gave him a reason not to second-guess his
treatment, gave him specfic cause to fix his doc or change docs, and tried
to help him and others appreciate the necessity of research.

You toss the guy a fish stick; I'll do my best to bake him some salmon,
teach him how to catch more, suggest that the only REAL flaw in his
treatment may have been in its discussion rather than its execution, and
point out to him and others that they can avoid much of this worry, and
sometimes real mistakes, by research. After all, pcrider has more treatments
ahead; knowledge then will do him a lot more then than a hug now.

You do it your way: I'll do it mine. I try to solve problems, not cover them
up.

I.P.

"jhlms" <jhlms@sbcglobal.net> wrote..
> I.P.
> Woulda, Shoulda, Coulda............
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>>> not, I could have at least done a little sperm banking so I could have
>>> the choice should the opportunity arise.
pcrider - 26 Mar 2005 14:56 GMT
On 25 Mar 2005, you wrote in alt.support.cancer.prostate:

> I suggested to him that the nerve graft he wishes he had gotten would
> not have helped him, so maybe he can stop agonizing over it. That
> factoid should last years, whereas a hug lasts for minutes.

It makes sense to stop agonizing over it. Thanks for that. I am still
considering the nerve graphing though, its just to bad I couldn't have
done it when the odds were in my favor.

> Then I gave him a fact he can use as rationale for switching doctors
> or confronting this one: the doc was wrong in not discussing all this
> in advance.

I asked what he did to save the nerves after the operation, since he
didn't
talk about it before the operation. He said "nothing, I just took it
out."
That was the last time I saw him.

> Then I put his justified misery to good use as an example, motivation,
> and encouragement for others to do more homework and for him to do
> more next time.

You really should have said that in the first place instead of trying to
justify what the doctor did.

> So in one short paragraph, I gave him a reason not to second-guess his
> treatment, gave him specfic cause to fix his doc or change docs, and
> tried to help him and others appreciate the necessity of research.

Your right people should do research, but they should have a guarenteed
legal
right to be informed. Anything less should be treated as criminal. Law
suits
only drive up the cost of health care. If they mutilate you by not
telling
you the whole story, treat them like any other criminal. A used car
salesman
can go to jail for selling you a crappy car, but a doctor can destroy
your
life, and you can't touch him, because "he had reason". Thats not right.

Personally I think a law should be passed requiring a doctor to provide
a  
written list of what he/she proposes to do, including all known side
effects,
AT THE TIME THAT HE/SHE PROPOSES SURGERY. To be dated, signed, and
witnesed
in a formal fashion. Otherwise you will have no recourse after the fact.

You were asked to fill out tons of papers to protect the
hospital/doctor, not
one of those papers was to protect you.

Trust me, once its done EVERYONE will be trying to justify what he/she
did.
The first response you get from anyone even people who have no clue what
happened will be, "but he had to, it was cancer". Its usually followed
by
"cancer is bad cuz my grandma had it and...". Until they are held  
accountable they will go on doing whatever they feel like, and getting
away
with it.

Its to late for me, but a LOT of people would definately benefit from
such a
law.

> You do it your way: I'll do it mine. I try to solve problems, not
> cover them up.
>
> I.P.

I apreciate your trying to help IP, hugs are a nice sentiment, but I was
really looking for treatment options. Drugs, surgeries, devices, you
name
it.. Whatever it takes to get back to as close to normal as possible.
I'll be
starting/looking for threads on vacum devices, and any other ideas I
hear of.
I have seen the effects of implants, and I am really put off by it. If
there
is no other option I may never recover. I have gotten a few ideas.

Mike Brooksher
I. P. Freely - 26 Mar 2005 22:08 GMT
"pcrider" <p_c_r_i_d_e_r@c_o_x.n_e_t> wrote >
> I.P. wrote
>> Then I put his justified misery to good use as an example, motivation,
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> You really should have said that in the first place instead of trying to
> justify what the doctor did.

I really meant to EXPLAIN, not JUSTIFY, the doc's actions and lack of
discussion. I don't feel there is ANY justification for not telling you
everything. In fact I think no treatment should be performed until the
patient can prove he has carefully read at least one of a short list of top
PC books, unless the pt flat refuses to do so after being strongly advised
to do so. The first uro surgeon I talked with was good, but no way did he
have the time to give me a course in PC 201, without which patients with
average IQ and options should not proceed, IMO.

>> So in one short paragraph, I gave him a reason not to second-guess his
>> treatment, gave him specfic cause to fix his doc or change docs, and
>> tried to help him and others appreciate the necessity of research.

> Your right people should do research, but they should have a guarenteed
> legal right to be informed.

Yup. I Googled some "Patients Bill of Rights", and was stunned that not even
the CANCER Patients Bill of Rights includes the right to be informed in
detail of al the (realistic) options and the primary and side effects of
each.

Sorry I'm not much on hugs, guys. I never had any as a kid -- not one that I
can remember -- and learned to place my faith in temporary and/or permanent
solutions to problems, rather than palliation, when a choice exists.

I.P.
David S. - 24 Mar 2005 13:22 GMT
I would seek out a new doctor in order to explore what may help you have a
more normal life.  It does not sound right to me that the bowel surgery
should result in what you describe.  You can also find a urologist that
specializes in the penile implant surgery.  That may give you a more
satisfactory sex life, but you must realize that it will never be the same
as before.  I had RRP almost two years ago now, and I am still impotent and
incontinent, so you are not alone in that department.  Just yesterday the ED
specialist told me that there is really no chance for me to have a return to
normal sexual function, so I am still trying to digest that idea.  The uro
that did the RRP told me last November that my incontinence will never get
better, so I have started looking into the artificial sphincter, although to
be honest at this point I do not think I will opt for further surgery.
Enough about me; this is suppose to be about you.

On the doctor that did this to you, I would suggest getting an opinion from
another physician knowledgeable about the cancer.  It could be that the
surgery that you had was necessary, and that the problem is not really
medical malpractice as much as a failure of giving proper informed consent.
That does not make it right, but it is a different situation from having
been mutilated by an incompetent surgeon.  As to lawyers and law suits, I'll
leave that up to you.  I would concentrate on getting better and having a
more normal life, i.e., try to stick with the positive.  Revenge may be
sweet, but it won't give you an erection.

Good luck to you.

Thank you.
David S.

> I'm a single, 47 year old male. I had surgery about 3 years ago. I had
> Invasive Bladder cancer, and the doctor told me my only option was to
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
>
> Mike Brooksher
pcrider - 25 Mar 2005 18:31 GMT
> I would seek out a new doctor in order to explore what may help you
> have a more normal life.  

I am talking to doctors as much as I can afford.

It does not sound right to me that the bowel
> surgery should result in what you describe.  

Again I'm talking to doctors as much as I can afford. Recently had it
looked at, so far it doesn't look good, but time will tell.

You can also find a
> urologist that specializes in the penile implant surgery.  That may
> give you a more satisfactory sex life, but you must realize that it
> will never be the same as before.  

I do. I'm not looking into implants at this time. I take it you do not
have the implant? Are you thinking about it?

I had RRP almost two years ago now,
> and I am still impotent and incontinent, so you are not alone in that
> department.  Just yesterday the ED specialist told me that there is
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> started looking into the artificial sphincter, although to be honest
> at this point I do not think I will opt for further surgery.

artificial sphincter? Do you know where I can get more info on that?
I'll check on it along with everything else.

Enough
> about me; this is suppose to be about you.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> informed consent. That does not make it right, but it is a different
> situation from having been mutilated by an incompetent surgeon.

I'm not going to comment on this again at this time. I get to angry.

As to
> lawyers and law suits, I'll leave that up to you.  I would concentrate
> on getting better and having a more normal life, i.e., try to stick
> with the positive.  Revenge may be sweet, but it won't give you an
> erection.

Your right, it is time to get past that. I am looking at everyway to
return to as close to normal as possible.

Thanks David, and good luck to you too. Let me know if you find out
anything,

Mike Brooksher

> Good luck to you.
>
[quoted text clipped - 48 lines]
>>
>> Mike Brooksher
judamd@aol.com - 24 Mar 2005 18:51 GMT
Mike, my cousin's husband just had exactly the same surgery you had -
bladder removal due to bladder cancer, prostate gone (don't know about
nerves), piece of colon used to reconstruct a functioning bladder.
He's only about 6 weeks post-op so there is no telling what his
ultimate side effects will be but he's enduring quite a bit right now
what with an infection, self-catheterization, a midnight run to the
emergency room, mucus in his urine, etc.. I'm sure you know all about
this and then some.

I'm appalled at the bed-side manner of your doctor who told you all the
side-effects at the last minute although I doubt the outcome would have
been much different if he had told you earlier.  What were the other
options available at the time?  Bladder cancer is bladder cancer and it
has to come out.  If he actually botched the surgery you could sue for
malpractice but short of that you can't sue him for being an a.shole.
Looking for something positive, when I was searching for a surgeon for
my prostate cancer, I happened onto a doctor who specializes in urinary
reconstructive surgery - he fixes botched surgeries, accident cases,
etc..  He's at UCSF but I'm sure there are others around the country.
Perhaps you could consult with one of these to see if there is anything
that could be improved in the voiding departments.  I doubt there is
much that can be done for erections that you haven't already pursued.

Dwelling on "killing the bastard" won't help.  I wanted to kill a
bastard who was a bit of a torment during my high school years.  But
then I learned just recently his wife died early on and he had to raise
three children alone and then he recently died of MS.  Now I feel badly
that I felt that way all those years.  He wasn't that big a bastard.

Anyway, check out the possibility of some reconstruction or other
treatment.  Good luck to you.
Dave Perry
pcrider - 25 Mar 2005 18:35 GMT
judamd@aol.com wrote in news:1111686676.137014.280250
@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com:

Thanks Dave I am looking into as much as I can. One of the bigest
problems I have is that doctors seem to have this, "you just have to
deal with it" attitude. Eventully I will get through to them though.

Thanks again Mike Brooksher

> Mike, my cousin's husband just had exactly the same surgery you had -
> bladder removal due to bladder cancer, prostate gone (don't know about
[quoted text clipped - 28 lines]
> treatment.  Good luck to you.
> Dave Perry
smu53@aol.com - 25 Mar 2005 01:01 GMT
Mike,
Your story is very sad. I have no experience with bladdder
cancer/removal, but I have a lot of experience with penile injection
following RP. Have you tried the small needles? I use #31 gauge needles
that are only 5/16th inched long. Mosquitoes are better endowed!They
hardly hurt at all. If you use Caverject Impulse system, those needles
are like harpoons. Has your doc tried changing the dose? Or tried
different meds like bimix or trimix? I thinkthe injections are
massively under-used and under appreciated. They work great for me.  It
does take some work to get the dose right, but it is worth it!
Steve U
pcrider - 25 Mar 2005 18:46 GMT
smu53@aol.com wrote in news:1111708896.573646.326980
@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

This is something I'll look into. The needles I have are 1/2" 30 guage,
I'll ask for smaller ones. So far I have only used one drug - I'm
reading from the label, ALPROSTADIL DILLUTION. I had already thought
about asking for a different type I'll bring these up next time I see
him. Have you ever used any other type of therapy to increase bloodflow
etc..?

Thanks Steve it helps,

Mike Brooksher

> Mike,
> Your story is very sad. I have no experience with bladdder
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> does take some work to get the dose right, but it is worth it!
> Steve U
smu53@aol.com - 26 Mar 2005 01:50 GMT
Mike Brooksher,
I like alprostadil the best, but I was on bimix for several months, and
it is good too. Depending on insurance it might be cheaper because it
is composed of two drugs with no patent protection. They are papaverine
and phentolamine.  The three pills (Viagra/Levitra/Cialis) work well
for me but I still like the shots better because I can adjust the dose
exactly, they work fast, the  erections are perfect, and they last.
Plus they are covered by my insurance!
SteveU
 
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