Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / March 2005
at the crossroads
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Clarence Crow - 25 Feb 2005 18:55 GMT Hi again all,
Yesterday my primary care physician (G.P.) told me I was overdoing it, trying to get in 3 days work a week whilst on ADT. My Rad starts in 3 wks and I've blocked out a time slot for that to exclude work for the 5-6 wks period. Also I'm in for HDR Brachytherapy on my 70th birthday, July 11, 2005. Then I'm back on ADT for another 12 mths.
I'm aware of the diminishing QOL caused by the SEs, but I'm finding it difficult to throw in the towel re work, even though I'm getting less interested in it. Just being there gives me contact with other persons in the non-PCa world and keeps my mind away from brooding. The job is also high-pressure. I'm a Consultant Estimator in the Construction and Resources Sectors, but I've been doing this for over 30 yrs, so I can deflect a lot of the stressful moments from past experience.
To pull the plug on this, what can I do? Teach kids that don't want to learn, don't want to work and can't even play Scrabble, 'cos they don't know words? I think NOT!
Maybe, I could find some persons in my own age bracket, who knows?
One thing, I don't want to be a usenet groupie, who has no other place to go.
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Steve Kramer - 25 Feb 2005 22:57 GMT > Hi again all, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I'm aware of the diminishing QOL caused by the SEs, but I'm finding it > difficult to throw in the towel re work, I'm with you, Neville. Who can possibly tell you how much work you can or cannot do while on ADT or RT? Admittedly, I'm 20 years your younger, but I never took a day off work during RT or ADT.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum
I. P. Freely - 25 Feb 2005 23:13 GMT Keep it coming, guys. My oncologists see at least your statistics every time we talk, and I've got to tell him in 14 days whether to continue after my 28-day ADT trial or $#!+can it. So far I haven't felt a thing except T flare, which feels GREAT.
And you must have a better job than I ever found.
I.P.
> "Clarence Crow" <crow@perch.biz> wrote in message >> Yesterday my primary care physician (G.P.) told me I was overdoing it, >> trying to get in 3 days work a week whilst on ADT.
>> I'm aware of the diminishing QOL caused by the SEs, but I'm finding it >> difficult to throw in the towel re work, Clarence Crow - 26 Feb 2005 00:30 GMT >Keep it coming, guys. My oncologists see at least your statistics every time >we talk, and I've got to tell him in 14 days whether to continue after my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I.P. They should've given you at least 1 wk on anti-androgen tabs to suppress the testosterone flare and the hot flushes. (I stayed on those for 10 wks before the dual modal effect almost drove me insane [sic]).
28 days should be enough time to feel the ADT start to bite. It usually kicks in at the 3 week mark and gets progressively worse.
Re: my job....I designed and set up the Computerised Estimating system in the main Company I've been contracted to since 1987, and have managed the upgrading etc. as the Hardware and Software technology moved upwards.. Seemed to be the right and natural thing to do at the time, but now, it's proving good Insurance ;)
Maybe I'll tough it out after all!
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I. P. Freely - 26 Feb 2005 01:27 GMT No way, Clarence. I LOVE the flare. I sleep better, bound out of bed in the morning, and feel like a kid until bedtime. I can see why so many tired old men w/o PC take T supplements. Right now I'm ENJOYING the only SE I've noticed. The down side: both my experience so far and the literature indicate that my 28-day trial isn't long enough to get past the flare, that T suppression can take several weeks. IOW, 1. My trial may tell me nothing, 2. I may crash AFTER the trial, making it useless as decision fodder, and 3. It renders my med onc's promise that one month on ADT will paint a good picture of one's long-term SE cocktail, and 4. Thus lessens my faith in his other promises which disagree with the literature.
Or maybe I'll crash next week and confirm his promises and my concerns.
I.P.
"Clarence Crow" <crow@perch.biz> wrote >
> They should've given you at least 1 wk on anti-androgen tabs to > suppress the testosterone flare and the hot flushes. (I stayed on > those for 10 wks before the dual modal effect almost drove me insane Clarence Crow - 26 Feb 2005 00:33 GMT >> Hi again all, >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >cannot do while on ADT or RT? Admittedly, I'm 20 years your younger, but I >never took a day off work during RT or ADT. But I'm less stable-minded than you, and the tantrums really drain me ;)
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I. P. Freely - 26 Feb 2005 01:29 GMT How do these tantrums work with driving? I get angry enough at idiot drivers withOUT ADT.
I.P.
"Clarence Crow" <crow@perch.biz> wrote >
> But I'm less stable-minded than you, and the tantrums really drain me Clarence Crow - 26 Feb 2005 03:07 GMT >How do these tantrums work with driving? I get angry enough at idiot drivers >withOUT ADT. > >I.P. The road-ragers that fill your rear-view mirrors when you have to slow down for an intersection.
I have a new Mazda SP23, so I leave them behind when the lights change. One guy in a Mitsubishi ES wound it up so far to pass me, he forgot about the radar trap over the crest of the hill.
I'm a tad more sedate now, but not due to the ADT ;)
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Steve Kramer - 26 Feb 2005 11:37 GMT > How do these tantrums work with driving? I get angry enough at idiot drivers > withOUT ADT. Mind over matter. As soon as you have inculcated that you have PCa (and in your case a double dose), you realize that there is a definite order in life.... a definite hierarchy, if you will, of what is most important, next most important, next most important, and so on. Then you realize there is really two lists in your life; the things you care about and the things you don't. If you're halfway intelligent, when you see someone coming up the right side when the expressway is backed up for a mile, you train yourself to immediately remember, in the scheme of your life, it really doesn't matter anymore. So, you don't wait until just the right moment, throw your 4x4 to the right running him into the guardrail, jump out of the truck, grab the shotgun and eliminate that lump between the guy's shoulders. .... you find you get by just running him into the guardrail.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum
JerryW - 26 Feb 2005 14:19 GMT > .... you find you get by just running him into the guardrail. Heh, heh, heh.......
I. P. Freely - 26 Feb 2005 17:55 GMT Funny you should mention that. I DID nudge a bumper into the side of a (closed) right-lane runner years ago when he decided it was moi he was going to break in front of when his lane ended at the well-publicized orange barrels. But it wasn't about road rage, it was about education. He learned not to try to force an old $3,000 truck out of his way with a new $45,000 sedan. ;-)
I.P.
>> How do these tantrums work with driving? I get angry enough at idiot > drivers [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > you > find you get by just running him into the guardrail. Clarence Crow - 26 Feb 2005 21:58 GMT >> How do these tantrums work with driving? I get angry enough at idiot >drivers [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >really two lists in your life; the things you care about and the things you >don't. <snip> Steve
I've been a List man since somewhere in the '60s, I was involved with Success Motivation Institute at various levels of the Pyramid. At least I got out with my skin after a year.
Another benefit was Time Organisation where I had to make a List of things to do as in Imperative, Important, Tomorrow and Forget it. My wife said I'd become an unbearable nagging nitpicker, as I was doing all of this Literally.
What the chief leeches at SMI didn't include was a dimension for "Unscheduled", which in Real Life can take up to 60% of your day. (I now include and target for 40% and seldom score <50%).
The scars of all of this have still left me very intolerant of persons who "blind-side" me and the ADT inspires me "turn over the desk and stomp out!"
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Steve Kramer - 27 Feb 2005 03:12 GMT > >> How do these tantrums work with driving? I get angry enough at idiot > >drivers [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > who "blind-side" me and the ADT inspires me "turn over the desk and > stomp out!" Then you know what's on the one list. Obviously, your job is on the other.
 Signature PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05
non Illegitimi carborundum
Harold - 25 Feb 2005 23:41 GMT Clarence:
You know best about how you feel and what you want to do. You should do what you feel like doing.
I was 64 years old when I started treatment.
I had ADT3 for 21 months and while I didn't feel the same as I did before ADT I managed to get through it. It was tolerable - not terrible.
I also had 12 weeks of chemotherapy (50 mg Taxotere once a week) while still on ADT3 and at the end of that therapy I certainly felt beat up but I was able to keep moving - somewhat slowly - which helped me mentally.
I also had 43 sessions (5 days a week for 8-1/2 weeks) of Intensity Modulated Radiation Therapy (IMRT) after having completed the chemo three months earlier and was still on ADT3 while doing the radiation therapy. Granted toward the end I was weary but I also felt it was important to maintain as much a normal lifestyle as possible.
2 days after completing IMRT I drove (well, my wife and I drove) from Los Angeles to the San Francisco area to attend the annual BIG GAME between Cal and Stanford and a couple of days later drove back to Los Angeles.
I say all this not because I want to say "Hey look what I did" but rather to provide an example of what can be done. Having ADT3, chemotherapy & radiation therapy did not confine me to my house to sit, brood and feel sorry for myself.
You seem to indicate you want to stay on the job and live at least a somewhat normal life so I'm just encouraging you to make the decisions you feel best about and not based on what some physician "thinks" how you feel. You said you are finding it difficult to "throw in the towel re work." Well, then don't unless it becomes apparent to YOU that you are doing yourself more harm than good.
We all react differently to treatment regimens and we do need to take care of ourselves but we also need to keep on living while doing treatment we hope will keep us alive.
Best regards to you.
Harold
Clarence Crow - 26 Feb 2005 00:52 GMT >Clarence: > >You know best about how you feel and what you want to do. You should >do what you feel like doing. <snip> You've certainly had the main course and all the 'entrees when it comes to PCa. Congrats. for hanging on!.
>You seem to indicate you want to stay on the job and live at least a >somewhat normal life so I'm just encouraging you to make the decisions [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >care of ourselves but we also need to keep on living while doing >treatment we hope will keep us alive. I have a few other ailments that are flaring as a result of the ADT. I'm trying to medicate myself against these flares, hence getting some better pain-killers for Osteo Arthritis. (I don't need a Bone Mineral Density test right now). So I'll be soldiering on at work for a while yet. I do have to take off the time for the RAD as the Clinic is a 90 mile round trip each day.
Thanks for the encouragement.
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Gut-Buster - 26 Feb 2005 12:30 GMT > To pull the plug on this, what can I do? You can stop thinking in boxes.
When I started working, I was a sales assistant in a music store and moved on to a clothes store. I got jack of that sort of life and went into accounts and on to working 3 years in a bank. After that I landed a great job in accounts again (9 day fortnight, good pay) for 7 years before they retrenched 56 of us, no warning. By that time I was 29 and thinking my time was limited in the accounts area but landed a stressful job in charge of the whole finance side for a wine import company. I lasted a good 3 months before I got sick from an overactive thyroid and chucked in the towel. That was fixed and I moved back into accounts again and worked my way up through the levels in a car company until I was second in charge of finance there. At that point I was working 8AM to 10PM no break, 5 days a week and 9AM to 4PM Saturdays and was starting to go crazy.
I decided my life and wife were worth more than that and changed career entirely and went to an internal sales rep for a printing company and ended up going through quite a few companies always doing better and better until I had a great job, company car, great pay and then got pretty sick with yet another health problem. 7 years later and somewhat better though never going to be what I was before, I realised I could earn some money again and took up computer repair.
Look to what skills you have, what interests you have and use them. If you aren't hard up for money, do the thing you like and can do on a casual basis where you name your own hours. That is ALL I can do now. I don't earn enough to live on and my wife has to work and support us both but I still earn SOMETHING and don't feel quite as much a bludger as I used to do.
Added to all this the prostate problem and many other problems. However, I still get up each day, do what has to be done and continue till it IS done. I worked a 23 hour shift (for myself) last week and followed it with an 18 hour one. I don't want to do that again and will turn it down in future as it badly affected me but the pay was good. I have a reputation for honesty and good work where I live, too.
If you aren't fully incapacitated, you aren't too old and useless unless you decide to be that or allow it to be the case. If people tell you that you CANT do something, amuse them by agreeing then go and do it anyway. You'd be amazed how many people are kept happy by being treated like idiots.
I. P. Freely - 26 Feb 2005 18:06 GMT Whewwww! I once had two bosses who expected us to work like that. The immediate superior just EXPECTED it, HIS boss even ORDERED me to work 18 hour days for two years. My reply was the same it has always been to tyrants like that: "Go abuse someone else. If you need that much work done, go hire some more people." I then cut back my usual 45ish hours a week to 40.0 hours except when *I* determined more hours were really justified. It didn't help my career, but it sure helped my self-esteem and my sanity. BTW, these bosses were a Lt. Col and a Colonel, but we were in a New Mexico reasearch lab, not a combat zone.
I.P.
> At that point I was working 8AM to 10PM no break, 5 days a week and 9AM to > 4PM Saturdays and was starting to go crazy. Clarence Crow - 26 Feb 2005 21:35 GMT >> To pull the plug on this, what can I do? > >You can stop thinking in boxes. You can think about boxes, but when you're in one, you can't think ;)
<snip> /begin "a lot of stuff about the writer's personal versatility and accomplishments..." /end <snip>
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Gut-Buster - 28 Feb 2005 11:59 GMT >>> To pull the plug on this, what can I do? >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > /end > <snip> You ask for help and you answer like that? I hope your problems aren't small ones!
Bob Taylor - 26 Feb 2005 15:36 GMT I think going to work during treatment has a very positive effect, at least in my case it did. The oncologist that I see even encouraged me to work during chemotherapy, which I was able to do 4 days a week. Aside from seeing supportive riends and colleagues on a daily basis, it is important to feel you are able to make a contribution... Also, it gets your mind off your illness for a while.
> Hi again all, > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > -- CC Clarence Crow - 01 Mar 2005 21:11 GMT Hello again
Approximately a week ago I posted "at the crossroads", (about ceasing work after a lifetime of it),to which I received quite a number of different responses.
I then concluded that everyones' circumstances, (including mine), would be different, and that no inspiration or solution could be gleaned from the varied responses.
So I'm sorting myself out, taking Meds for my OA and still working when I'm able.
I'll see what I feel like when I come out the other sides of RAD and HDR Temp Brachytherapy, whilst still bearing the SEs of ADT for at least another 12 months.
Thanks for all the responses and accompanying tales
.
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