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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / March 2005Looking for advice
Hello My father 66 has been diagnosed Prostate Cancer four months ago. Earlier in September 2004, The Ultra Sound report showed that the prostate gland of my father measuring 45*48*56 MM with a volume of 70 ml. According to ultra sound report: Modest to severe enlarged size prostate gland with low reflectivity parenchyma suggestive of BPH with Prostatitis. No mass seen. In October 2004 a doctor performed a minor operation using laser surgery. After biopsy report he told me that it is a very aggressive type of prostate cancer and the survival rate is 50%. He said that we cannot perform an open operation. The conclusion of this biopsy report is that: Neuroendocrine Carcinoma. Then he recommended me to take him for chemotherapy. After the four cycle of chemotherapy, the MRI report indicate that although the tumor is reduce more than 50% however there is still a large amount of residual disease. The disease infiltrates into both seminal vesicles which are large and bulky. It infiltrate into the bladder with involvement of the bladder base. It infiltrates into the para-prostatic fat with extension to the pelvic side wall on the left side and infiltration of the obturator internous muscle. The bladder trubeculated. The disease is still T4 and M2 equivalent to stage D. No evidence of disease outside the pelvis. Now When I asked the ONCOLGY DOCTOR about the condition of my father disease, she said that after the completion of 6th cycle, he recommends my father to under go radiotherapy. She still gives me no hope for my father. When I met the UROLOGIST after the four cycles of chemotherapy, who performed the laser surgery of my father, told me that this diseases can be relapsed and then the only solution for that it will put the Cathedar to my father life time for passing URINE. He also told me that to complete the six cycle of chemotherapy. I have also been informed that this prostate cancer is locally advanced regarding my father case. But now my father has been feeling relaxed during passing the urine without any Cathadr. I am very much concern about my father’s condition. Could you please give me your humble opinion? I will appreciate this very much. Thanks Regards Faraz Faraz, I am not a doctor, and I am not qualified to comment on what the doctors have told you. If you are asking if it is possible to recover from stage T4 or M4 prostate cancer, so far as I have read, the answer is no, nobody ever does. You should make the best use of the couple of years or so which your father will live. I wish I could say something more optimistic. I am sincerely sorry for this misfortune. Jim P.S. You are also at risk for this disease, so see the doctor every year to catch the disease early. > Hello > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Faraz Hi James, Thanks for your reply. Regarding my father' case the tumor is T4 M2. It is in the pelvis only. Doctor said it is non metasis. Do you know what the M2 means? Also about Non metasis. Thanks Faraz > Faraz, > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] > > > > Faraz Can someone answer these questions please. I never read the later chapters of Dr. Walsh's book and I don't have a copy of it at hand. jimhoney > Hi James, > [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] >>> >>>Faraz T4 means it has reached the lymph nodes. M means it has reached the bones. I don't think I remember what M2 means specifically.  SignatureProstate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor > Hi James, > [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > > > > > Faraz The conclusion of this biopsy report is that: Neuroendocrine Carcinoma. The disease infiltrates into both seminal vesicles which are large and bulky. It infiltrate into the bladder with involvement of the bladder base. It infiltrates into the para-prostatic fat with extension to the pelvic side wall on the left side and infiltration of the obturator internous muscle. The bladder trubeculated. The disease is still T4 and M2 equivalent to stage D. No evidence of disease outside the pelvis. I have also been informed that this prostate cancer is locally advanced regarding my father case. Could you please give me your humble opinion? I will appreciate this very much. Thanks Regards Faraz ======== hi faraz - i reduced your post down to the key points. also there seems to be terms used in the TNM staging system and the Jewett-Whitmore staging system what i've also done is reduced a lot of data down as to how it applies to your father's condition. i hope this explains what at what stage he has. hope this helps ~ curtis ======================= The T stage of the disease refers to the form of the primary tumor within the prostate. The N stage refers to the status of the lymph nodes near to the prostate (the pelvic lymph nodes). Finally, the M stage refers to the degree of metastasis -- the degree to which prostate cancer has traveled out of the immediate area of the prostate to other organs of the body. Stage T4a and stage T4b are stages of prostate cancer which had no true equivalents in the Jewett-Whitmore system. Tumor is still localized to the pelvic region, but has definitely escaped from the prostate and seminal vesicles. Stage T4a disease In stage T4a disease the tumor has escaped from the prostate and may invade any or all of the following: the bladder neck, the external sphincter (which helps to control urination), and the rectum. Stage T4b disease In stage T4b disease the tumor has escaped from the prostate and may invade the levator muscles and/or may be fixed to the pelvic wall. Stage N+ disease If a case of prostate cancer is described as N+ this means that microscopic amounts of prostate cancer can be recognized in the pelvic lymph nodes or that the disease has extended into the rectal area. This stage is similar to stage D1 in the Jewett-Whitmore staging system. Sometimes physicians will use the following subclassifications of stage N+: Stage Nx: The presence or absence of cancer in the pelvic lymph nodes cannot be assessed. Stage N0: There is no sign of cancer in the pelvic lymph nodes. Stage N1: There is metastatis in a single lymph node (not more that 2 cm in greatest dimension). Stage N2: Either there is metastasis in a single lymph node (2 - 5 cm in greatest dimension) or there are multiple lymph node metastases (none more that 5 cm in greatest dimension) Stage N3: There is any metastasis in the lymph nodes more that 5 cm in greatest dimension. Stage M+ disease If prostate cancer is clearly evident outside the pelvic area (most commonly as distant foci of cancer known as metastases), the disease is classified as M+, which is almost exactly comparable to stage D2 of the Jewett-Whitmore system. As with the classification of nodal status described above, we often find the following terminology applied: Stage Mx: The presence or absence of distant metastasis cannot be assessed. Stage M0: There is no sign of distant metastasis. Stage M1a: There is distant metastasis in the non-regional lymph nodes. Stage M1b: There is distant metastasis in the bone. Stage M1c: There is distant metastasis at other sites. Hormone-resistant disease In the old Jewett-Whitmore staging system, physicians often used the term stage D3 to refer to patients whose prostate cancer was no longer responding to hormonal therapies. There is no equivalent to this stage in the new TNM system. knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc Great breakdown Curt, May I copy this for a record? Dwight > The conclusion of this biopsy report is that: Neuroendocrine Carcinoma. > [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc thanks dwight - if you email me directly, i'll send you the complete breakdown on everything. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc Hi Curtis and every one, Thanks that you did it for me. Thanks for giving me this information. It seems that the stage of cancer in my father’s case is equivalent to stage 2, after reading the information which I got from you. However according to MRI report, it is written that the disease is T4 M2 equivalent to stage D. Here I am little bit confuse. What does its means (stage D)? Is it possible that after Chemotherapy M2 will reduce to M1 or M0 and T4 reduce to T3 or T2…..? Also what does the following means? 1. The disease infiltrates into both seminal vesicles. 2. It infiltrates into the para-prostatic fat with extension to the pelvic side wall on the left side and infiltration of the obturator internous muscle. 3. The bladder trubeculated. Could you please inform me about it? Thanks With Best Regards Faraz > The conclusion of this biopsy report is that: Neuroendocrine Carcinoma. > [quoted text clipped - 103 lines] > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc hi faraz - i've been down this road before with my own father. at stage D - he is not curable. he is able to be treated to both extend the quality of his life and the quantity of his life, but the end result is that he is not going to beat prostate cancer unless a miracle happens. the questions you are asking about the s.v. and bladder are statements where they have said that the prostate cancer is outside the prostate and has gone into other parts of the body that they know of. now, how long will he live - i don't know. this is the guessing game. chemo helps, but the side effects are tough. strontium 89 can be used if pain becomes an issue. i wish i could offer some words that would make the prostate cancer go away. the only thing i can tell you is that you might want to look into alternative medicines. some people has said it has helped but these are treatments that are not approved. you are do different web searches and explore different paths and see if this is a way you might want to go. another possibility is to get your dad enrolled into a clinical trial. here - he will be given medicines or treatments that are not approved for public use because they are in the experientment stages. they won't do anything to harm your dad, just that these are not FDA approved. you did ask about if a treatment will reduce the staging and the answer is no. prostate cancer NEVER gives up anything it has done. that is what makes this cancer so deadly. you stated that your dad has an aggressive type of prostate cancer and for that i would like to express that this is also the type of treatment you are going to have to do to fight for your dad's life - to be aggressive in the treatments are well. please be advised, that you can still learn from this. as you know, your dad didn't not feel bad or show symptoms and that's the way prostate cancer works. because your dad has prostate cancer means that you are in a higher risk of developing this too - later in life and will want to monitor your psa closely. this did not mean that because you will have the same condition as your dad's condition. because if it is caught early enough, then it IS CURABLE. this was not the case of your dad. how's your dad doing as to responding to treatments? is he feeling ok? able to enjoy life? able to travel? best wishes. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc Hey guys.....minor point here, but I think *Faraz* is a female name. As is her posting name......Marjina. Perhaps he/she could clear this up and then we won't be advising this person to get PSA checks. Heather > hi faraz - i've been down this road before with my own father. > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc From: janeysmith@hotmail.com (Heather) Hey guys.....minor point here, but I think *Faraz* is a female name. As is her posting name......Marjina. Perhaps he/she could clear this up and then we won't be advising this person to get PSA checks. Heather ============ thanks heather - never dawn on me on the name. duh....... hit me with another piece of spam, will ya........ then i guess this means she won't be getting her prostate checked? :)) hey, gotta have some fun a with a serious subject. but allow me to get serious for a sec. since faraz is a woman, then her male children would be at risk and she needs to be aware of that as they grow into that age group when prostate cancer can develop. i don't know if she knows that are not, which is why i'm bringing it up. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc > since faraz is a woman, then her male children would be at risk and she > needs to be aware of that as they grow into that age group when prostate > cancer can develop. i don't know if she knows that are not, which is > why i'm bringing it up. Nice save......LOL!! But you are right. I just thought we should clarify whether or not it's a she or he. Cheers.....Heather (almost ready to load on XP....going slightly nuts here) > From: janeysmith@hotmail.com (Heather) > Hey guys.....minor point here, but I think *Faraz* is a female name. As [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc Faraz, you absolutely MUST read some of the PC books. Not only will they answer the first hundred questions you CAN think of, they will also bring up and answer ANOTHER couple of hundred vital questions you HAVEN'T thought of while clarifying the answers you already have. Only after reading some books will you also know when your confusion -- and our apparent contradictions -- are based on lack of knowledge even at the top expert, medical professional levels vs disagreement due to our lack of -- or advanced -- expertise. Keep asking here, but start reading also. The books will clarify your staging (the TNM business) questions, but the best place for such detailed discussions as "It infiltrates into the para-prostatic fat with extension to the pelvic side wall on the left side and infiltration of the obturator internous muscle and The bladder trubeculated" may well be right here, even if the answer is nothing more than, "M>0 => palliation only", which means he's incurable so the exact path of the cancer is not relevant. Are you asking Google about these terms? "trabeculated bladder", for example, pops up right away in detail. I.P. Hi, Thanks for your reply. Mashallah the condition of my father is good. After chemotherapy the Dr suggest radiothropy. I would like to inform eveyone my name is Faraz Khan . I am male. Age 32 I also like to say that earlier before diagonising a prostate cancer of my father I also did th PSA test, but according to my family DR. this test was ok. and he said there is no prostate cancer according to PSA. But After biopsy we recognized this disease. So Is this PSA test reliable regarding diagnose of prostate cancer? Thanks Regards Faraz Khan > Hi Curtis and every one, > [quoted text clipped - 132 lines] > > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc From: marjina98@hotmail.com Hi, Thanks for your reply. Mashallah the condition of my father is good. After chemotherapy the Dr suggest radiothropy. I would like to inform everyone my name is Faraz Khan . I am male. Age 32 I also like to say that earlier before diagnosing a prostate cancer of my father I also did the PSA test, but according to my family DR. this test was ok. and he said there is no prostate cancer according to PSA. But After biopsy we recognized this disease. So Is this PSA test reliable regarding diagnose of prostate cancer? Thanks Regards Faraz Khan =================== hi faraz - if you to have pca at age 32, this would more along the very rare side at that age. what you really want is a base line. you have to know your number. just do the annual checkups and that should be enough. at this point in time, there is nothing to lose sleep over. now, it appears that the there is a possibility that if you develop prostate cancer later in life, it may be of the aggressive type and this is the knowledge you have that makes you a winner right now. here's some points to consider. - if you get an aggressive prostate cancer, the psa level may not climb that much due to the fact the prostate cell structure is damaged as far as it making psa, so it could get a better foot hold before the psa number goes up to trigger for a biopsy. - this is why tracking your psa numbers are so important. a .75 psa number rise in one year is enough to trigger a reason for a biopsy. and this number may be well below the 4.0 cutoff. prostate has been found in men with psa's in the 2's and 3's. - consider your options now and pray that you are never in a position that you ever need them. by doing this will accomplish two things. one, you will have thought it through without the short time frame that you have to make a decision if you had pca. the second reason is that once you have made a decision, then as you watch the news and events in the field of prostate - there might be something better in the way of treatment that you have opted for and then you could switch to that option because you had a standard to compare it to. as to your father - since he hasn't had the radiation, this would be something he could do and radiation does kill a lot of the pca cells and without a lot of side effects. again, i wish both of you the best. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc On February 18 (my time) Faraz wrote: (snip) > I also like to say that earlier before diagonising a prostate cancer > of my father I also did th PSA test, but according to my family DR. > this test was ok. > and he said there is no prostate cancer according to PSA. > But After biopsy we recognized this disease. > So Is this PSA test reliable regarding diagnose of prostate cancer? The short answer to the question is, unfortunately, no. PSA is an enzyme that is produced by normal prostate tissue. Its primary function is to liquify semen before it is ejaculated. It can change, even in the course of a day, depending upon a number of factors. These include sexual activity, a DRE (digital rectal examination), bicycle riding, prostatitis, an infection, BPH (benign prostatic hyperplasia -- it "just grows") anything that massages or irritates the prostate. The PSA blood test results in a number, not a yes or no answer. In Faraz's case, with a father who has PCa, it is recommended that he have at least yearly PSA tests, along with DRE's. These will enable Faraz to track any changes and establish a baseline value. It has been recommended by Stephen Strum, MD, a well-respected medical oncologist, that a PSA reading of 2.0 on someone in his high-risk position is reason to investigate further. So: a high PSA test in and of itself is *not* diagnostic of cancer. It may, depending upon the size of the test result and the DRE, require a biopsy. A biopsy should be the reliable word on the presence of cancer. A complicating factor, though, is that it can miss small tumors. If a high PSA persists, and there is no explanation, it might even be necessary to redo the biopsy. And I hope that Allah is merciful to Faraz's father. Regards, Steve J __ "Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.'' --Sir Winston L. S. Churchill Hi, Faraz, You don't mention your father's PSA, but I assume it is quite high. Nor did you mention his Gleason, but at this point, it may not matter. From that which you have related, it is apparent that your father has advanced prostate cancer. There is currently no cure for advanced prostate cancer. When the cancer is fully contained within the prostate or even if there are small metastices, there are some things that can be done to reduce significantly the amount of cancer in one's system and to extend his life. However, your description seems to indicate considerable involvement of most organs around the prostate. That does not preclude additional mets outside the prostate area, including possibly in ribs, other organs, other bones, etc. In other words, if I accurately understand your father's plight, I believe your father's condition is serious and the best you may accomplish is to help him through this stage in his life without pain. SignatureProstate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor > Hello > [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > > Faraz Hi, Thanks for all of you who are giving me the useful information and wishes. Regarding my father’s case my Urologist said that we can’t remove this tumor through surgery. Although I read that if the tumor is localized or limited spread, the best option is the surgery. Sometime I think that may be the surgery is the best option for him, but as I discussed earlier, the Chemotherapy treatment is going on. Here I am confuse that what can I do. Should I meet another Urologist? Thanks Regards Faraz > Hi, Faraz, > [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > > > > Faraz hi faraz - removing the prostate will not make the prostate cancer go away. if you are going to try any kind of treatment of the chemo, radiation would be less invasive of the body and would yield about the same end results. yes, you should meet with another uro if you have doubts and to discuss treatment options. best of luck, ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc Hi Curtis, If the cancer is still confined to the prostate and one removes the prostate then the cancer is gone - isn't that so?? Reuben >hi faraz - removing the prostate will not make the prostate cancer go >away. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." >http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc If all the cancer is in the prostate and the prostate is removed, then the cancer is gone. The problem is no one can tell you for sure any cancer is confined to the prostate. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum > Hi Curtis, If the cancer is still confined to the prostate and one > removes the prostate then the cancer is gone - isn't that so?? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > >http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc On February 20,Faraz wrote: > Although I read that if the tumor is localized or limited spread, the > best option is the surgery. > Sometime I think that may be the surgery is the best option for him, > but as I discussed earlier, the Chemotherapy treatment is going on. > Here I am confuse that what can I do. > Should I meet another Urologist? Judging from Faraz's first post, his father's tumor has been diagnosed as stage T4, "equivalent to Stage D." That is metastatic disease. Apparently it is confined to the pelvic area, but is widely distributed according to Faraz's earlier postings. I am not a doctor, but it is my belief that the tumor has spread too far for surgery to be useful. I recommend that an oncologist -- a specialist in cancer -- be consulted. A radiation oncologist will probably recommend radiation treatment, and I think that has already happened. The other subspecialty of oncology is "medical oncologist." I recommend that a medical oncologist be consulted. Perhaps a combination of radiation and the current chemotherapy will help, but it must be understood that, once the cancer has spread beyond the prostate capsule, it is incurable. The most that can be done with current medical science is to slow it down. Maybe, with luck, its advance can even be stopped. By the way, which drug is used for the chemotherapy? Regards, Steve J Hi all of you, I am thankful all of you who are giving me these information. Etoposide and Cisplatin are the chemo drugs which oncologist suggested. Now out of six cycles, five have been completed. But before taking the six cycle of chemo Dr. found that my father’s has a rising cretine, after performing the blood test. So they did the ultrasound of kidney, and they found that the kidneys are going to infected, so Urologist of my father first tried to insert DJ standing from kidneys to bladder through Cathedar, but he said that he didn’t find the way because of tumor. So on his recommendation, the radiographer specialist tried to insert DJ standing using PCN insertion from outside, but he also didn’t find the way to pass DJ standing from kidney to lower area, so finally he fix the tubes outside the body of my father in order to work the kidney properly. Both the two tubes/pipes are coming from both the kidneys. Now the urine is coming from this procedure. I am very disheartened about this situation. Dr. said that this is a temporary procedure. Once the obstruction will go then they remove this pipe/tubes and my father will pass urine normally without cathadyr. I would like to say that before putting these tubes/pipes outside the body of my father, he was passing the urine normally with some pain. There is a last cycle of chemo still remaining. I hope that these tubes will be gone soon and my father will feel easy. Thanks Regards Faraz > On February 20,Faraz wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Steve J Faraz, tubes protruding from a human being are discomforting at the least, but at least in his case, they are temporary. And the alternative is death by kidney failure. Your father is in our prayers. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum > Hi all of you, > [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > > > > Steve J Hi Steve and every one, Thanks for your reply. Dr. are going to complete the 6th cycle of chemo and may be after that they started raditheropy. Will the last cycle of chemo reduce the tumor, because these drugs are also very heavy? Should the raditheropy useful in my father's case. After Cyctoscopy of my father, He(Urologist) said that there is a good channel. What does it means, because my Dr. is very reserved to answer my questions and in that stage I can't argue with him. Now the cathadyr is removed from the Urether but still the two pipes from both the kidneys are using for Urine. Regards Faraz > Faraz, tubes protruding from a human being are discomforting at the least, > but at least in his case, they are temporary. And the alternative is death [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > > > > > > Steve J I don't understand the chemo reference. Chemo has not been successful with PC. Are you referring to ADT (aka HT)? I.P. > Hi Steve and every one, > [quoted text clipped - 109 lines] >> > > >> > > Steve J Hi, Now the Oncologist and the Urologist (both are working in the same hospital) said that we will not give the 6th cycle of chemo to my father. Because it will not help any more and it affect the other parts of the body like kidneys. So why they gave the 5th cycle of chemo to my father because after the 5th cycle his kidneys affected and now he is passing urine through the two pipes which are coming from kidneys. She and the urologist told me that now they recommend that we are going to radiotherapy and one of their colleagues (radiotherapist specialist) will perform this. My father and I are upset about that. We are not making a decision about this. Could you please suggest about it? Thanks Faraz > I don't understand the chemo reference. Chemo has not been successful with > PC. Are you referring to ADT (aka HT)? [quoted text clipped - 114 lines] > >> > > > >> > > Steve J Hi, Urologist said yesterday that we are planning to give radiotehropy , but my father is not agreed. Dr said that the disease is now aggressive because of chemos. He said that the reason that why the blood is coming from Penis is the tumor. I am concerned about the two pipes coming from the kidneys.My father is not feeling easy. BEcause of these pipes he is restricting his movement, now all the time he stays on the bed. Earlier the angiographer told me that these are temporary but yesterday urologist did not give me a positive reply about this procedure. He said that if he removes the pipes which are coming from the kidneys, the urine is coming out from this holes. He said that this is not the PC, however it stays here. As I read on the net the main destination of Neuroendrocine CA is in Appendix. Unfortunately in my father's case it chose the prostate. Dr. still said that there is a good Prostatic channel, means he can pass urine normally , but the tumor is in between kidneys and bladder. Thanks Faraz > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 135 lines] > > >> > > > > >> > > Steve J I empathize with you Faraz. I am one of a few people here who watched their father go through this dreaded disease. It's a miserable think to have to go through. SignaturePSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05 PSA .07 .05 .06 .05 non Illegitimi carborundum > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 164 lines] > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Steve J Hello Every One, Now the Urologist told me that we will make an artifical channel in order to pass urine.He said that he will perform open surgery and use large intestine and connect this to the bladder and join an artifical tube which comes outside in order to pass urine. Although he is not agreed to cut this tumor. This is a shocking news, because earlier the Dr told my father that you can feel much relief to pass the Urine normally through DJ Standing procedure, which he said earlier that he can perform this through Cystoscopy. In operation theature he told me that he failed to pass the DJ standing though URethra now the Angiographer do this procedure.At that time he didn't inform me the consequences of these PC insertion procedure. Now he said that your father will never pass urine through Penis/normal way and we have to make a channel. In the mean time he also said that there is a good prostatic channel. After 3rd cycle of chemotheropy the tumor became soft and shrink and then after 4th cycle of chemo the Oncologist said that it is enough, the chemo will not affect more , but the Urologist insist that we have to complete 5th and 6th cycle and he told the Oncologist to do that. After 5th cycle of chemo his critinine was rising and Ultrasound reveals that both the kidneys were going to affect. So why they gave 5th cycle if they knew that this will not help. My father's urea and critine was under control after 3rd and 4th cycle and he was passing urine normally. After 5th cycle of chemo he was also sufferd from high grade fever. So Oncoloigst gave him CYSPROXIN and TAZOCINES injection also for one week. Now after that procedure (PCN Insertion) he is not in good condition. It is not easy to hold the two begs of urines which comes from the kidney. Earlier Both the Oncologist and Urologist gave us a good hope that after this treatment (Chemotheropy and DJ standing through Urethra) your father will feel relief. Now at that time both of them show the reverse of this situation. I and my father want that the PCN insertion procedure will be gone soon and my father pass the urine normally. But the UROLOGIST made us afraid that if we dont agree to make an artifical channel, then after removing these two tubes the urine will be leak. At that time my father feels that urine is coming into penis but when he go to toilet only some drops of blood pass not urine. Some time he feels very much pain in penis. Please give an early reply. I am looking forward to your kind suggestion. Thanks Faraz > I empathize with you Faraz. I am one of a few people here who watched their > father go through this dreaded disease. It's a miserable think to have to [quoted text clipped - 199 lines] > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > Steve J
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