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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / February 2005

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Robot assisted prostate surgery

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Ake Wikstrom - 05 Feb 2005 10:21 GMT
I would like to know if anyone has made a scientific study comparing
the results from ordinary open surgery with robot assisted surgery?
Steve Kramer - 05 Feb 2005 11:53 GMT
I am sure there are studies in progress.  But, I believe RLRP is just too
new to have a lot of long term studies out about it.

I have, as others have, considered that there is nothing much to study.  The
technology is sound.  If a doctor is trained and experienced in its use and
if he was a decent prostate surgeon in the first place, the operation should
not be any different.  If anything, considering the prostate is blown up on
a T.V. screen, the operation should be more detailed and exacting.

What things really boil down to is weather it's worth all the fuss.  Healing
times are roughly half on average to an RRP.  But, is that worth it?

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0
Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron (1 mo) 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .07 .05 .06
Lupron (4 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50)
non Illegitimi carborundum

> I would like to know if anyone has made a scientific study comparing
> the results from ordinary open surgery with robot assisted surgery?
Ake Wikstrom - 07 Feb 2005 20:31 GMT
Dear Steve!
I believe that robot assisted surgery is major step forward. The
healing time is very short, a couple of weeks instead of 6 to 8 weeks.
The blood loss is in the range of 1-2 dl instead of 1-2 liters. The
possibility for nervesparing is high. Intelligent tools are easy to
manouvre inside the body and the surgeon has a very good view of the
area.I think the learning curve for an experienced surgeon can be very
fast. Overall i judge the method to be worth it. The overall cost for
a patient is roughly the same independant of method but the result can
be much better.
It would however be very interesting to find a study comparing
different methods. I believe the the technique has been in use for
several years so there should be some experience gathered. I wait and
see.

> I am sure there are studies in progress.  But, I believe RLRP is just too
> new to have a lot of long term studies out about it.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> > I would like to know if anyone has made a scientific study comparing
> > the results from ordinary open surgery with robot assisted surgery?
Steve Kramer - 08 Feb 2005 11:23 GMT
Thanks for pointing out, Ake, that my missive was somewhat negative as
written.  That was surely not my intent.

As a matter of fact, I am, thus far, a fan of RLRP.  I have often said that
if it was available when I had my little problem, I would have traveled to
Detroit or Texas to avail myself of it.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0
Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron (1 mo) 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .07 .05 .06
Lupron (4 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50)
non Illegitimi carborundum

> Dear Steve!
> I believe that robot assisted surgery is major step forward. The
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> > > I would like to know if anyone has made a scientific study comparing
> > > the results from ordinary open surgery with robot assisted surgery?
James A. Honeychuck - 05 Feb 2005 13:44 GMT
A scientific study would be interesting, but possibly more important
would be the results achieved by a particular surgeon.

I think a good surgeon could provide you that comparative information.

jimhoney
standard RRP age 52, cured, no significant aftereffects

> I would like to know if anyone has made a scientific study comparing
> the results from ordinary open surgery with robot assisted surgery?
Alan Meyer - 05 Feb 2005 17:56 GMT
>A scientific study would be interesting, but possibly more important would be the results
>achieved by a particular surgeon.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> I would like to know if anyone has made a scientific study comparing
>> the results from ordinary open surgery with robot assisted surgery?

I did a search on Pubmed.  I found lots of studies of outcomes
from the point of view of surgical complications, incontinence, recovery
time, and other measures that can be taken within a year or so of the
procedure.  However it appears that the procedure was first practiced
in 1998, so long term data is not available.

It also appears that, as with radical retropubic prostatectomy, the
procedures used by different surgeons are different - sometimes
quite different.  Certainly LRP, and I presume RRP, techniques are
developing over time.

As for getting info from a good surgeon, I'd prefer the scientific
study if good ones were available.  It would be a rare surgeon
indeed who would tell you that the technique he uses is inferior
to the technique used by someone else.  So when two surgeons
use two different techniques, either they both think that the two
techniques are pretty comparable, or else one of them is misguided.
But which one is it?

Scientists on the other hand are perfectly objective, with no bias
in their study designs or observations.  That's right, isn't it? ;^)

   Alan
James A. Honeychuck - 05 Feb 2005 18:18 GMT
Obviously I didn't say that clearly.  I meant a good surgeon would
provide you comparative information on his own results with the two
forms of surgery.

jimhoney

>>A scientific study would be interesting, but possibly more important would be the results
>>achieved by a particular surgeon.
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
>
>     Alan
Alan Meyer - 06 Feb 2005 00:10 GMT
> Obviously I didn't say that clearly.  I meant a good surgeon would provide you
> comparative information on his own results with the two forms of surgery.

Information gets easily scrambled in my brain.  Forgive
the misinterpretation.

   Alan
 
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