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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / February 2005

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robotic LRP

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yelnats - 01 Feb 2005 12:54 GMT
I have read several discussions that were posted describing their results
with robotic LRP(mrbill and jhlms). If anyone would share where they had
their surgery performed and if their results were good. I'm looking for a
surgeon who has done enough procedures that he is past the learning curve.
Thanks, yelnats.
James A. Honeychuck - 01 Feb 2005 14:06 GMT
Although I had a standard RRP at Johns Hopkins Bayview Hospital in 2002,
 that surgeon (Dr. Pavlovich and a colleague I don't think I met) is
now reporting identically good results with the robotic procedure.

jimhoney
standard RRP age 52, cured, no significant side effects

> I have read several discussions that were posted describing their results
> with robotic LRP(mrbill and jhlms). If anyone would share where they had
> their surgery performed and if their results were good. I'm looking for a
> surgeon who has done enough procedures that he is past the learning curve.
>  Thanks, yelnats.
Gary G> - 01 Feb 2005 16:10 GMT
There
> Although I had a standard RRP at Johns Hopkins Bayview Hospital in 2002,
>   that surgeon (Dr. Pavlovich and a colleague I don't think I met) is

> now reporting identically good results with the robotic procedure.
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> > surgeon who has done enough procedures that he is past the learning curve.
> >  Thanks, yelnats.

I had a robotic radical prosectomy on Nov.23, 2004 in Detroit by Dr.
Menon. I was diagnosed by the PSA test 5.3 at a yearly physical, my
biopsy in September showed I had cancer in one core out of 12. I am 52
and from Chicago area and drove up with my wife the day before surgery.
Pain was minimal, approx 2 hours in surgery, one night stay in the
hospital,the catheter was out at 7 days and I had clear nodes and
margins  with a Gleason 6 for the tumor.  All the robotic patients(5)
were walking by 8 pm that night and I got out of bed by myself the
first time. I ate T-Day dinner back in Chicago on the 25th.  Only ate
20% of normal but it was the best turkey dinner I ever had.

I just got my first post PSA back at 0.05 so I am quite happy.  I feel
like I probably dodged PC but will have to follow up with the PSA
tests.

Amazingly, I was pad free at 2 weeks. I did Kegals when ever I could
remember to do them prior to surgery.  I considered this the major
issue prior to surgery.  I only drip now (2 months)  when I
laugh/sneeze/cough too hard and it is only a drop or two.

The following is a research report by Dr. Menon and others that you may
want to read.

http://prostate-cancer.org/education/localdis/Tewari_NerveSparingRP.html

Another website that discusses where the DaVinci Prostatectomies are
done at:

http://www.davinciprostatectomy.com/hospitals.html
Please read the other info at this site.

It is importent to ask how many are done at the hospitals mentioned
since many of them do not have the numbers.  The DaVinci machine is
also used on other procedures.

I found this website google newsgroup while searching for ED material
and I have found it very interesting and supportive.  I pray for all
the men that continue their struggles against PC and all of us that
continue with the incontenance, and ED issue.

Gary Gunnerson
yelnats - 02 Feb 2005 03:05 GMT
Thanks to everyone for responding. I was particularly interested inthe
reply from Gary G. since his biopsy readings are very similar to mine. My
PSA was 7.4, my biopsy showed I had cancer in one core out of 12, a
Gleason score of 6 (3+3), stage T1c, and I'm 60 y.o.. I think that most
urologist would advise treatment for my cancer, but one prominent surgeon
advised me against surgery and suggested I return in 6 months for a repeat
biopsy(watchful waiting). What advise did Dr. Menon give you, Gary, when he
was confronted with basically the same set of readings in your case(only
exception is that you are slightly younger than me)?  I know looking at
the web site you sent me that they have predictability tables for cancer
outcomes.  Also, you mentioned that you were from the Chicago area. I know
from looking at the DaVinci websight that there are some surgeons in
Chicago that are doing the DaVinci robotic surgery.  Did you research any
of them and which ones?  Why did you choose Menon?                        
               
Gary G> - 02 Feb 2005 15:57 GMT
> Thanks to everyone for responding. I was particularly interested inthe
> reply from Gary G. since his biopsy readings are very similar to mine. My
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Chicago that are doing the DaVinci robotic surgery.  Did you research any
> of them and which ones?  Why did you choose Menon?

I read quite a bit after the biopsy and before the biopsy diagnosis of
1 core out of 12 that I either had cancer or not.  I also at that point
didn't like the biopsy that much and the thought of doing them every
six months to a year for a biopsy wasn't pleasant.  I also have a
friend in Indiana that was a urologist that said if it happened to him
that he would go to Mayo where he trained for the RRP and Detroit if he
was to get the robotic RP.  I have a busy schedule with 4 kids and
after reading the the info decided to see Dr. Menon  in early November.

My original biopsy was reviewed by multiple pathologists to make sure
it was cancer and I wanted a second opinion on the slides.  My
urologist friend said that to talk to John Hopkins that they consulted
in this in their pathology department.  I did and they concurred with
the original diagnosis.

By the time I saw Dr. Menon I also read stats that said that watchfull
waiting in Europe is higher and they have a higher cancer mortality in
men.  He concurred that it is best to get rid of the cancer while you
can, while it is small and hopefully contained in the prostate. You
have a better chance for contenance and getting an erection the younger
you are and smaller the cancer is.

As I see it if you get another biopsy in 6 months chances are nothing
much will happen since prostate cancer is slow growing.  On the other
hand, the  PC could start to spread faster and you get end up either
with the PC in the margins or outside of them.  With one core out 12 I
had 1% by volume cancer.  A second biopsy may not have found it again
it.  This wouldn't mean that I didn't have cancer but they didn't find
it.  Then I would be looking at getting biopsies every six months to  a
year for a long time. Sounds expensive and a good deal for the
urologist and radiologist since radiation or a RP would be coming up
anyway.

The day I got my Robotic RP, another gentleman (62) had his out.  He
had gone two years without a PSA and they found a little cancer outside
the margins.  I think his PSA was in the 8 to 10 range.  He was very
depressed about it since he was a family doctor and he really stresses
to his patients the importance of yearly PSAs. He muttered do as I say
not as I do.

Almost every RP ends up either upgrading the tumor or keeping it at the
same stage.  I have not heard of anyone saying there tumor grade was
lowered.

Hopefully my reply answers your question, I pretty much made the
decision to have it out.  The question for me was published results and
recovery times.
Mayo,Hopkins and Menon (and others) publish their results.  This was a
one time decision for me and I tried to make it with the most info that
I could get.
yelnats - 03 Feb 2005 03:44 GMT
Thanks for the reply. What you say makes a lot of sense. I have had my
biopsy reviewed by 2 different pathologists locally and a pathologist at
Northwestern Hospital and they concur as to volume and grading. Having
another biopsy to me would be a waste of time.  Like you said, just
because they didn't find PC on a second biopsy would mean they just missed
it.                                               You mentioned that you
were pad free at 2 weeks. How is the potency issue at this point? I
understand Menon has a high success rate.                    
Steve Kramer - 03 Feb 2005 00:05 GMT
We debate what treatment is best, but I think nearly all of us would say
that any treatment is better than none for a 60-year-old in good health with
your numbers.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0
Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron (1 mo) 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .07 .05 .06
Lupron (4 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50)
non Illegitimi carborundum

> Thanks to everyone for responding. I was particularly interested inthe
> reply from Gary G. since his biopsy readings are very similar to mine. My
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Chicago that are doing the DaVinci robotic surgery.  Did you research any
> of them and which ones?  Why did you choose Menon?
I.P. Freely - 03 Feb 2005 01:20 GMT
Seminal vesicle involvement, by definition, => T3c.

I.P.

"Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote >
Steve Kramer - 03 Feb 2005 01:55 GMT
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.  I've never noticed that before.  I'll have to look back at
the post-op biopsy results.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0
Seminal Vesicle involvement, Neg margins
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Lupron (1 mo) 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .07 .05 .06
Lupron (4 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50)
non Illegitimi carborundum

> Seminal vesicle involvement, by definition, => T3c.
>
> I.P.
>
> "Steve Kramer" <skramer@cinci.rr.com> wrote >
Danny McCarty - 04 Feb 2005 04:18 GMT
>Subject: Re: robotic LRP
>From: "yelnats" black@EMAILPROTECTED
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>of them and which ones?  Why did you choose Menon?                        
>                
If the pathologist is sure that that one core has cancer, you have prostate
cancer.  It might be quite prevalent throughout your prostate in spite of being
found only in that one core.  You are lucky you found it- get rid of it.
jhlms - 01 Feb 2005 20:58 GMT
My surgery was performed in Arlington, TX. by Dr. David Lee with Urology
Associates of North Texas.  You can access their web sit at www.uant.com.  I
especially invite you to view the video which includes an interview with Dr.
Lee.

jhlms

>I have read several discussions that were posted describing their results
> with robotic LRP(mrbill and jhlms). If anyone would share where they had
> their surgery performed and if their results were good. I'm looking for a
> surgeon who has done enough procedures that he is past the learning curve.
> Thanks, yelnats.
JerryW - 02 Feb 2005 01:06 GMT
While I had the standard RRP, I personally know one person in our Man-to-Man
group who also had robotic LRP by Dr. Lee in Arlington, TX. He is doing well
and was very satisfied with his surgery.
Signature

JerryW
jweindel at flash dot net

2/11/04 PSA 2.6, Suspicious DRE (age 62)
2/23/04 Biopsy: Gleason 3+4=7, T2a, left lobe
5/18/04 RRP, Path: Gleason 4+3=7, T2c, both lobes
7/13/04 PSA <0.1
10/12/04 PSA <0.1
1/18/05 PSA <0.1

> My surgery was performed in Arlington, TX. by Dr. David Lee with Urology
> Associates of North Texas.  You can access their web sit at www.uant.com.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>> curve.
>> Thanks, yelnats.
MH - 02 Feb 2005 00:39 GMT
*Holes* fan??  ;)

I had my LRP November 21, 2002, at Northside Hospital in Atlanta.  It was
performed by Dr. Scott Miller.  Fantastic staff at the hospital.  I spent
one night.  Catheter was in for about 3 weeks total.... but continent since
about 6 weeks post-op.

Goodluck!
MikeH :)

>I have read several discussions that were posted describing their results
> with robotic LRP(mrbill and jhlms). If anyone would share where they had
> their surgery performed and if their results were good. I'm looking for a
> surgeon who has done enough procedures that he is past the learning curve.
> Thanks, yelnats.
mrbill@misterpond.com - 04 Feb 2005 05:22 GMT
Yelnats,
Here is somemore info for you.
Dr. David Lee performed my robotic procedure in Arlington, TX.  The
group of doctors is in an organization called: Urology Associates of
North Texas, and their website is www.uant.com

Here is a recently announced merger that makes them the largest group
of urologist in the United States:
http://www.uant.com/news/UANT-UCNT.html

Certainly something to take note about.  If there is a need, they have
the expertise to take care of it.

MrBill
age at diagnosis 48
PSA 1.4
Gleason 3+3=6
T2c
12 cores, 5 right positive, 1 left positive
robotic RRP 12/15/03
Post-op Pathology G7(3+4)
PSA 4/2/04, 7/8/04, 10/11/04 = <.1
pad free 8/15/04
age 49

> I have read several discussions that were posted describing their results
> with robotic LRP(mrbill and jhlms). If anyone would share where they had
> their surgery performed and if their results were good. I'm looking for a
> surgeon who has done enough procedures that he is past the learning curve.
>  Thanks, yelnats.
 
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