Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / December 2004
After Surgery Update!
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Bob Anthony - 18 Dec 2004 18:26 GMT Hi All!
I lived through the robotic laparoscopic surgery that I had on the 12/14/04! I was diagnosed before surgery as a T1c, 3+3, with a PSA of 7.6 in August 04. After the surgery the numbers are T2c, 4+3, not sure of pre-op PSA...I will find that out 12/20. (I forgot to ask at the time I was in the hospital because it was just over night). PSA after surgery is immeasurable so the doc said, and a follow up PSA in 3 months. Organ confined is yes. No seminal vesicle involvement. No lymph node involvement. I had both nerves spared. My surgeon said that the op went very well and the catheter will come out 12/20 after doing a cystogram first just to check. Over all, the catheter is a pain, as well as some abdominal discomfort, but I guess this is to be expected after having surgery just a few days ago. I am slowly getting some of my appetite back, but not ready for the Outback Steakhouse just yet. I guess I need some of your thoughts as to how I did, and maybe what I can expect too or any other ideas, suggestions or advice. I'm concerned about reoccurrence of course, and the risk levels associated with my numbers. Thanks to all!
 Signature Bob Anthony
Alan Meyer - 18 Dec 2004 19:15 GMT > Hi All! > > I lived through the robotic laparoscopic surgery that I had on the 12/14/04! Congratulations! The worst part is now behind you.
> I was diagnosed before surgery as a T1c, 3+3, with a PSA of 7.6 in August > 04. > After the surgery the numbers are T2c, 4+3, not sure of pre-op PSA. ...
> ... I'm concerned about > reoccurrence of course, and the risk levels associated with my numbers. You can't help but be concerned, but I think your chances are still good in spite of the new numbers.
A _lot_ of the people diagnosed as T1c, 3+3 are in fact T2c and Gleason=7. That was my own case. My first diagnosis was the same as yours, and my second opinion, done by people I think highly of at the National Cancer Institute (I work there as a computer programmer), was the same as what you got after surgery. Underdiagnosis seems to be very, very common.
I had radiation instead of surgery. I'm certainly not out of the woods yet and my PSA is far from undetectable but (knocking furiously on wood) I'm cautiously optimistic.
Alan
Leonard Evens - 18 Dec 2004 20:05 GMT >>Hi All! >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > A _lot_ of the people diagnosed as T1c, 3+3 are in fact T2c and > Gleason=7. The pathological stage, as determined in postsurgical pathology, must be at least T2a. T1c only refers to a presurgical staging and means nothing was detectable on DRE. With the whole prostate available, the pathologist can see where the cancer is. T2a means it is just on one side. There are two different schemes for the case where it is on both sides. An earlier classification distinguished T2b and T2c, but I believe that has now been simplified to just T2b. But some pathologists still use the older classificatory scheme. It is extremely common to find cancer in both lobes of the prostate in postsurgical pathology. So there is no special significance to the T2c pathological staging.
It is also not uncommon for the Gleason score to go up in postsurgical pathology, but of course it would have been better if it hadn't.
> That was my own case. My first diagnosis was the same as > yours, and my second opinion, done by people I think highly of at [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Alan frankB - 18 Dec 2004 20:48 GMT > Hi All! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > reoccurrence of course, and the risk levels associated with my numbers. > Thanks to all! Hi Bob
Glad everything OK. I had an RRP so I'm not sure if my after effects were the same as you might expect. Aside from the slight discomfort from the incision the only pain I had was in the perineum(sp?). That lasted a few weeks gradually diminishing. Also I thought I had somehow contracted hemorrhoids! I had a hard time being comfortable sitting. Using a ring pillow helped and that too slowly went away. I had no trouble moving my bowels the whole time.
As for the foley, it was a pain but the discomfort was minimal. You'll come to find the most comfortable way to attach the tubing. Be sure that it is secure, either with tape or elastic straps, other wise it will become a problem. Empty it frequently. I would disconnect the bag when I took a shower but my daughter, a nurse, said that was not a good idea as the end of the tube should be sterile. I don't know about that but I told her I wouldn't (but I did).
I'm sure you will get a lot more help from the other guys, but that's a start. Good luck and don't get discouraged! You're in a lot better condition than you were before.
Frank
I.P. Freely - 19 Dec 2004 02:45 GMT My post-op discharge nurse got angry when I asked about showering with the urine collection system opened to the atmosphere. She demanded that I plug it or leave it intact . . . whatever it takes to maintain a closed system.
I.P.
> I would disconnect the bag when I took a > shower but my daughter, a nurse, said that was not a good idea as the end of > the tube should be sterile. I don't know about that but I told her I > wouldn't (but I did). Richard - 18 Dec 2004 22:20 GMT Congrats on having the worst behind you! I had an RP in 1/03. My Gleason was 3+3, psa 8, T1c. Post-RP path. showed 3+4, stage T3 (some extracapsular extension but got clean margins).
So far my PSA is undetectable, I feel great, and no incontinence to speak of. I work out more and eat better now than pre-RP.
Your numbers and other data sound real good. One thing to confirm is if your post-path Gleason score is 4+3 or 3+4. Since the first number is the predominant cell pattern, I would be surprised if a 3+3 became 4+3, unless there is disagreement on the predominant pattern. A 3+3 commonly becomes 3+4 after surgery. A 3+4 has a lower recurrence rate than a 4+3. So you might want to double check, or even have the hospital ship some pathology slides out to a good outside pathologist for a second opinion if there is lack of agreement (I did).
The Foley Cath is the worst part; you will be a happy guy the day you get it out! I had bladder spasms, some abdominal pain, and some constipation for a week or two. After they took the Foley out, I felt much better.
I found over the next few months I rapidly improved my energy level, and over several months my body gradually returned to normal.
As for risk of recurrence, it is never zero; confirming the correct Gleason score and talking to your surgeon will help clarify the risk. You will adjust to that, although most of us still get a little stressed waiting for the results of the PSA test every 6 months. We adjust to it.
> Hi All! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > reoccurrence of course, and the risk levels associated with my numbers. > Thanks to all! Bob Anthony - 19 Dec 2004 00:33 GMT PS: Anyone experience a slight swelling from the incision are from where they took out the prostate? It is about 2 inches with some firmness and tenderness underneath. My brother in law is a doctor and he checked it out today. I am worried that it is a hernia caused by the incision, but he said that is not the case. Just swelling and it is normal.
 Signature Bob Anthony / R A P Marketing Services
Rob Constable - 20 Dec 2004 19:56 GMT I remember having a little swelling early on, that just went away. The other thing I remember is feeling a whole bunch of pings and pangs for a few weeks while I was walking that had me wondering about hernias, but it all turned out to being me just being very sensitive to what was going on down there... Hopefully same boat for you..
Prostate Cancer Survivor (That is the Plan -:)) PSA 3.64 3/17/2004 @ 45 Biopsy 4/01/2004 G6 (3+3), T1c RRP 7/15/2004 Post-op Pathology G6(3+3), T3cN0M0 %15 of Prostate involved Positive margin at Apicular end PSA .0
I.P. Freely - 20 Dec 2004 20:05 GMT I had twinges of discomfort and/or pain for over a year after hernia surgery years ago. The doc said it's expected, that it's just scar tissue getting tugged and tweaked.
I.P.
> I remember having a little swelling early on, that just went away. The > other thing I remember is feeling a whole bunch of pings and pangs for > a few weeks while I was walking that had me wondering about hernias, > but it all turned out to being me just being very sensitive to what was > going on down there... Hopefully same boat for you.. Steve Kramer - 21 Dec 2004 18:29 GMT Welcome to the club, Rob. Looks like you had a good doc, catching it at 45 with less than a 4 PSA.
 Signature Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron (1 mo) 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non Illegitimi carborundum
> I remember having a little swelling early on, that just went away. The > other thing I remember is feeling a whole bunch of pings and pangs for [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Positive margin at Apicular end > PSA .0 Mike - 22 Dec 2004 04:13 GMT Steve, Had my RRP surgery on 11/10. After a few tough weeks post op, I'm doing very well. I would like to add to your comment regarding kudos to Rob's Doc. I am 47 years old with a PSA prior to surgery of 1.7. My psa of a year ago was running between 2.3 and 2.6. My uro thought even that was too high for a 46 year old. After 3 biopsies spaced 3 months apart, cancer was found. Gleason of 6 (3 + 3) and pathology confirmed same gleason score and pT2c stage.
Some doctors today, especially the younger ones do not use the standard 4.0 ng/ml as a rule. Its a great thing when a doctor discovers cancer before any symptoms can show up.
> Welcome to the club, Rob. Looks like you had a good doc, catching it at > 45 [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> Positive margin at Apicular end >> PSA .0 Rob Constable - 22 Dec 2004 15:14 GMT Thanks Steve. My other set of circumstances that I didn't mention in my tag line that helped the doc make sure he was sensitive to it is that my father died of Prostate Cancer in 2000, and my younger brother (2 years younger) had an RRP when he was 40, so the biopsy results were not much of a surprise. Prostate Cancer Survivor (That is the Plan -:)) PSA 3.64 3/17/2004 @ 45 Biopsy 4/01/2004 G6 (3+3), T1c RRP 7/15/2004 Post-op Pathology G6(3+3), T3cN0M0 %15 of Prostate involved Positive margin at Apicular end PSA .0
Steve Kramer - 20 Dec 2004 01:03 GMT You came through it with good grades. Those "contained" and "negative involvement" statements are everything you wanted to know. Stage and Gleason scores are important ofr treatment decisions, but those other two are you most important information after surgery.
Congratulations. You got a hell of a chance of a cure.
 Signature Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron (1 mo) 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non Illegitimi carborundum
> Hi All! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > reoccurrence of course, and the risk levels associated with my numbers. > Thanks to all! ButtercupsDad@dog.net - 20 Dec 2004 20:50 GMT With your path report I would not think too much about reoccurrence. Guess you had the catheter out today. Do not be surprised if you leak for the first few days. Most here seem to dry up within the first few weeks. Depends Guards worked best for me. I did not like the briefs because they made me sweat. Also, the Guards can be changed without taking off your pants. A big advantage when going back to work.
For exercise most here will probably advise just plain walking. Work up slowly of course. Watch the lifting. They tell me that it takes a lot longer for things to heal up inside the body, so you do not want to put strain on anything in there.
Good luck to you.
Thank you. David S.
>Hi All! > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >reoccurrence of course, and the risk levels associated with my numbers. >Thanks to all!
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