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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / December 2004New To Group
I'm 63, in good health. First PSA four months ago = 5.0 Second PSA three days ago = 5.6 Physician asked me if I wanted to wait a month for another PSA to see if it raises or goes down or go for a biopsy. I told her let's do the biopsy. I'm scheduled for December 28th. She told me not to worry much since a PSA of 5.6 at my age isn't a surprise and besides, I have an enlarged prostate due to medications and blood pressure. I have no symptoms of anything wrong down there. I joined this group as it's time I found a warm friendly place to discuss this and probably obtain some answers and reassurance. Thanks for being here for us. I asked her how the biopsy is performed and she said it's like a rectal exam except that a small needle is inserted into the prostate a few times. I asked if it was uncomfortable and she said it feels like a rubber band snapping on your skin. I hope she is right. I'm not one that tolerates pain well. They are going to send me some anti-biotics to take before the procedure. Is there anything else I should be aware of? I am pretty apprehensive about this and rightfully so. No matter what the outcome, I will obtain a second opinion before I will allow any surgery to take place. I see there are all sorts of procedures to remove the cancer, some better than others. Which is the best recommended procedure? The Veterans Administration will probably be doing the procedure as they are the ones that discovered my high PSA. Anyone have experience with the VA in these sorts of operations?? They are not always up to date or have the latest equipment. If it should come out that I do have prostate cancer, my disability rating will go up since it's probably directly related to Agent Orange in Vietnam. Stafford hi stafford - you didn't say which area you live in. some va hospitals are better than others. if you do have pca, and you can prove you were "in vietnam" then your rating will go up. by "in vietnam" i'm referring to standing on the soil itself, not in the water. i'm still fighting the VA for over 20 months now and they will now give me credit for being up to the water's edge, but not touching land, what a crock!!!! but i just located my old C.O.and he's now a retired admiral, so hopeful, i can make some headway. if you have any questions on the VA, email me. in response to your concerns, i put some answers in between........ I'm 63, in good health. First PSA four months ago = 5.0 Second PSA three days ago = 5.6 question - did they treat you with any antibiotics before pulling the psa test the second time? reason - you may have a mild prostate infection. ========== I asked her how the biopsy is performed and she said it's like a rectal exam except that a small needle is inserted into the prostate a few times. I asked if it was uncomfortable and she said it feels like a rubber band snapping on your skin. I hope she is right. I'm not one that tolerates pain well. They are going to send me some anti-biotics to take before the procedure. Is there anything else I should be aware of? I am pretty apprehensive about this and rightfully so. No matter what the outcome, comment - that sounds about right. they will give you an enema before the procedure to make sure no fecal material can cause infection. ============= I will obtain a second opinion before I will allow any surgery to take place. I see there are all sorts of procedures to remove the cancer, some better than others. Which is the best recommended procedure? comment - depends on many different factors to go into right here. wait till you get to that bridge. ======== The Veterans Administration will probably be doing the procedure as they are the ones that discovered my high PSA. Anyone have experience with the VA in these sorts of operations?? They are not always up to date or have the latest equipment. comment - normally, i would agree, but i had my surgery at scott air force base and the equipment and staff were super. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc > hi stafford - you didn't say which area you live in. some va hospitals > are better than others. if you do have pca, and you can prove you were [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc I'm familiar with the VA myself but not when it comes to the seriousness of having an operation, etc. I was in Nam twice, on the ground. My file is stamped "Agent Orange" and I'm listed in the Agent Orange Registry. Therefore it's a no brainer when it comes to obtaining an increase in my rating. I'm also retired Army and my current 30% comes out of my retired pay and I get it back in the form of a check from the VA. Really sucks. But if I come back with a higher rating of 50% or more, the compensation will be a separate payment. But money isn't the issue here either. I'm fully retired now and my current income is only $200 less than what it was when I was working. The time before the VA tested me I had another PSA done through Tricare which was elevated somewhere around 4+. At that time the doc put me on antibiotics. I had another test and they said it was fine. So I was surprised that it had went up when the VA did it. At any rate I'm keeping the two separate for now until the time comes to need a second opinion. If I allow Tricare to operate, the operation will take place outside of the VA and in a civilian hospital. I know what you mean about the VA's being different. I live in Olathe, KS and use the Leavenworth (Eisenhower) VA Hospital. Three turns and 40 minutes and I'm there. The place is immaculate compared to other VA hospitals I've seen. I've actually complemented the custodians for doing such a great job of keeping the place clean. The staff is also great. No shouting at the patients and always willing to help. I feel comfortable there for now. But my concern is with their equipment in the operating room. You know they have had funding problems in the past and I've seen some old hospital equipment in use that you can't give away now. I can only hope IF they do the operation, they perform current procedures like laser, etc. Fortunately for me now I'm not working and therefore being off work isn't an issue during recovery. I know I'm putting the cart ahead of the horse here, but I like to be prepared. There were some Navy vessels that sailed up the Saigon River and in some of the canals in Vietnam. They were well within the combat zone. I'm not familiar with Navy rules, but it would appear to me that anyone in or near Vietnam would qualify for the Agent Orange Registry. The stuff was airborne too. Anything to save a buck. I can only imagine what's going to happen when this mess in Iraq is over and our men and women are discharged and file VA claims. They only just recently recognized the Gulf War Illness as a valid health issue. The ones getting care at Walter Reed will eventually be turned over to the VA system for care. The system may get overloaded and funding will have to be a top priority. Thanks for serving Palmer and 'Welcome Home Bro'. Stafford hi stafford - again, my comments are in between your concerns....... ----------- I know what you mean about the VA's being different. But my concern is with their equipment in the operating room. You know they have had funding problems in the past and I've seen some old hospital equipment in use that you can't give away now. I can only hope IF they do the operation, they perform current procedures like laser, etc. Fortunately for me now I'm not working and therefore being off work isn't an issue during recovery. I know I'm putting the cart ahead of the horse here, but I like to be prepared. ------> when i got the bad news, i finally decided to go standard RP/nerve sparing. this particular VA hospital didn't do that. when i got onto the operating table to do the biopsy and when i got on the table to be checked for the colon, i felt that fred flintstone should have been standing there as my doctor because of how old the equipment was. the only piece of new equipment was a color monitor that i could watch as they shoved the scope up my colon. but i had a full bird as my uro and he got me transferred to scott, where he did the nerve sparing, saving me from the VA's approach to this treatment of no nerve sparing. (the VA's exact comment was, we don't do nerve sparing - our job is to get the cancer out) i want to also point out that when i asked the newsgroup at that time, i was told that other VA hospitals were doing nerve sparing - to keep looking till i found one. ================== There were some Navy vessels that sailed up the Saigon River and in some of the canals in Vietnam. They were well within the combat zone. I'm not familiar with Navy rules, but it would appear to me that anyone in or near Vietnam would qualify for the Agent Orange Registry. The stuff was airborne too. Anything to save a buck. -------------> i agree with you about the navy and vietnam. PBR"s were all over the place. my unit was credited for rescuing 16 pilots that were shot down in north vietnam in 1966. but it's that clause that the VA has said about "in country" that is stopping men who served their country and paid the price. i'm in the agent orange registry, but they still are fighting me because the records seemed to have disappeared that would prove i was "in country". and this may be hard to believe but the air force claims are worse than mine. you know, the men who served in those planes - risking their lives - if they were not stationed on land itself, but off shore - out of country. if they were to land on base for refuting, but never got out of their plane and touched the land, then, they are said to never had been "in country". go figure. ============== I can only imagine what's going to happen when this mess in Iraq is over and our men and women are discharged and file VA claims. They only just recently recognized the Gulf War Illness as a valid health issue. The ones getting care at Walter Reed will eventually be turned over to the VA system for care. ---------> they are already getting claims from the iraqi war in the VA system for PTSD. these men that have killed the enemy, had buddies killed, on body detail all qualify. you're right - the VA systems is under staffed and over worked and trying to operate within the budget given. there are going to be good men and women who are going to fall through the cracks of the system - unfortunately. ========== Thanks for serving Palmer and 'Welcome Home Bro'. Stafford -----------> and may i return the compliments........... ;) (hand salute) i'm going to find out how good tri-care is in about 11 months. any suggestions or comments? ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc > hi stafford - again, my comments are in between your concerns....... > ----------- [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc Concerning Tricare: I have Tricare Prime. It only cost us $465 a year for family coverage. There is only my wife and myself, but if we had kids, any number, the cost would be the same. I pay $15 per Dr Visit and get this,,,, only $3 for a 30 day supply of medication. Most pharmacies take Tricare. Now I can get a 90 day supply for $3 if I use the mail order pharmacy or it's free if I go to a military pharmacy. Can't be beat. You first have to find and select a Primary Care Physician (Primary Care Manager) who will be in charge of your care. Not all physicians do Tricare. There are some hospitals that do. We are waiting for the Olathe Medical Center (one of the largest in Kansas) to accept Tricare. They already do on an as needed basis and they write off what Tricare doesn't pay. Good deal. You are supposed to notify the VA that you have Tricare so that they can "coordinate" your care. Yeah, right. That takes away the unbiased second opinion. I'm keep the two separate. If I get caught, all they can do is call me a "bad boy". Visit the Tricare website at http://www.tricare.org or just type tricare in a search engine. All the info you need is on their website. I had a HMO under the Federal Health Benefit Program since I retired from the USPS in February. The cost was $100 a month and $15 per prescription and $15 per office visit. Soooooo, it's a no brainer what I chose to do. When I turn 65, I can get Tricare For Life at NO cost as long as I also take Medicare Part B which is currently around $65 a month out of Social Security. Still not a bad deal and you will never get a medical bill. All prescriptions are free too. Have to get something for being a lifer in the Army. Cheers. hi stafford - thank you for the info and the basics of what it's all about. you probably explained away 1500 pages of of gov't issued instructions, subparagraphs, memos, revisions, and that last sentence at the end of the whole mess that references you back to the beginning of the pubs again. it sounds like a good plan. i definitely paid the dues for it and will be using it shortly. may your biopsy come back clean and you don't get the invite to join this club. :) ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." http://community.webtv.net/PALMER_ENT/doc Tri-Care is as good as you wish. There are 2 or 3 levels available, with lower co-pay plans costing more. I use TriCare Standard (or Basic or whatever it's called, aka Champus) simply because it allows me to choose any doctor and facility I wish. The paperwork is a nightmare, between the TriCare and the doctors' billing and the secondary insurance, but it's all workable and beats the $18k + $7k deductible my brother has to pay for his health insurance. I.P. "c palmer" <PALMER_ENT@webtv.net> wrote > > i'm going to find out how good tri-care is in about 11 months. any > suggestions or comments? "Stafford" <privacy@is.better.org> wrote in message news: > There were some Navy vessels that sailed up the Saigon River and in some of > the canals in Vietnam. They were well within the combat zone. I'm not > familiar with Navy rules, but it would appear to me that anyone in or near > Vietnam would qualify for the Agent Orange Registry. The stuff was airborne > too. Anything to save a buck. Sure, anything to save a buck on the backs of the rest of us Vietnam vets who didn't choose to blame it for for all of our health problems. Trying again . . . Take a Tylenol before the biopsy (if the doctor doesn't object), and I'll bet you a prostate that you'll hardly notice the biopsy (presuming the doc dabs some Lidocaine on the site first). Your PSA is low enough that the delay of a third PSA check won't incur any more risk, but all I'd need for a biopsy is a 5, let alone a 5 and a 5.6. There are VA hospitals, and there are VA hospitals. Many of them are co-located with university teaching hospitals, which means you get premiere care. Anybody in a white coat at my local VA hosp is a U of WA med school physician, for example, and my prostate was removed (hence the bet) by very experienced faculty surgeons. I have a whole gaggle of oncologists and/or urologists watching my case. Second opinion? How about months of research, including 4-5-6 books, 4-5-6 doctors (including both surgeons and radiation oncologists), and many authoritative websites (e.g., universities, hospitals, cancer institutes not trying to sell any snake oil)? You have a HUGE decision to make, and, unless further tests indicate urgency, months to make it. Many of your questions have been discussed in just the month or two I've been here, and I'm sure those were old topics to older heads. I.P. > Trying again . . . > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > I.P. Ok IP. Apparently you are in the Seattle area and use the Seattle VA who partners with the UW. When I lived in Federal Way I used the UW Clinic there in partnership with the VA. That was great as I could get an appointment most anytime I wanted and didn't have the hassle of going up to Seattle to sit all day. I just got off the phone with a retired Army Colonel I served with. He's retired now and lives in the DC area. He said he knows one of the top Urologist in the country in Washington, D.C., and if I needed some assistance in getting a second opinion, to contact him. I just might do that. Regardless of what the biopsy shows, it will do good to get a second opinion anyway and possibly a second biopsy just to be sure. A friend of mine was diagnosed as being clean upon biopsy only to learn on second opinion that he wasn't and he had to have his prostate removed (Group Health did it). Then the VA stepped in and gave him a disability rating of 60% and tied it to Agent Orange. He's doing very well. I do miss Seattle. We live near Kansas City now. > I'm 63, in good health. > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Is there anything else I should be aware of? Most men who have biopsies find them about as painful as a typical dental procedure except they don't last as long. Many urologists administer an anesthetic before collecting the samples, and that helps. The procedure itself is not as stressful as the worry about the results. It is more likely than not that you don't have prostate cancer. So try, if you can, to assume the best, and worry about it afterwards if it works out differently. > I am pretty apprehensive about this and rightfully so. No matter what the > outcome, I will obtain a second opinion before I will allow any surgery to > take place. Second opinions on the biopsy are often recommended. If cancer is detected, estimating the Gleason score is to some extent subjective. That score is helpful in evaluating treatment options, so it is important to get it right. You might start doing some reading to educate yourself about the subject should it turn out you have prostate cancer. Many of us have found Patrick Walsh's Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer helpful. There is also a similar book by Sheldon Marks. And www.phoenix5.org is a fairly comprehensive website. But don't try to figure it all out yourself. As a layman, you don't have the expertise and experience to judge what is right if you find conflicting advice. Ultimately you have to choose a doctor you trust and do what he or she says. If you do choose surgery, make sure the surgeon is very experienced in the nerve sparing technique and has a good track record. > I see there are all sorts of procedures to remove the cancer, > some better than others. Which is the best recommended procedure? At your age, most authorities would probably agree that surgery and radiation are roughly equivalent. That is why you should do some reading and see what makes the most sense to you. Avoid approaches like cryotherapy. Personally I don't see any advantage of seeds over external radiation, but seeds certainly have their enthusiasts. > The > Veterans Administration will probably be doing the procedure as they are the > ones that discovered my high PSA. Anyone have experience with the VA in > these sorts of operations?? They are not always up to date or have the > latest equipment. Several men here have been treated at VA hospitals, and they will probably respond for themselves. But there is a lot of variation among hospitals and doctors in the VA system. Quality ranges from poor to excellent, and you of course want the excellent. > If it should come out that I do have prostate cancer, my > disability rating will go up since it's probably directly related to Agent > Orange in Vietnam. That seems to be the case. I don't know if it has ever been proved conclusively, but the VA seems to accept that there is a relation. > Stafford > I'm 63, in good health. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > down there. I joined this group as it's time I found a warm friendly place > to discuss this and probably obtain some answers and reassurance. What is Stafford's TNS stage? This would be determined via a DRE (digital rectal examination). By "first PSA" does Stafford mean that he had never had a PSA test before? If so, why did he have the first one done four months ago? Until recently, the maximum normal PSA reading was 4.0. There are some who recommend that the cutpoint be 2.5. An enlarged prostate, if caused by the condition called BPH (benign prostate hyperplasia), could cause a higher than normal PSA. Or it could be caused by infection. Or stress, including ejaculation within the previous 72 hours. I wonder whether there is more in the background than we have before us. > I asked her how the biopsy is performed and she said it's like a rectal exam > except that a small needle is inserted into the prostate a few times. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Is there anything else I should be aware of? That antibiotic will probably be Cipro. The morning of the procedure, Stafford will have to give himself an enema to cleanse the rectum. This, after taking care what he eats during the preceding many hours. IMO, the absolute minimum number of core samples should be twelve. If Stafford's prostate is enlarged, more cores might be required. Bear in mind, though, that I am not a medic, just a victim. And, whatever the pathology report says, *have the slides AND the paraffin block sent to a specialist* for a second opinion. This is absolutely vital! The path report on the biopsy samples will determine the future course of treatment, maybe even of Stafford's life. There are specialists around the country. My second opinion was done by Bostwick Labs in Virginia, though I'm in Arizona. I think they can be found on the PCRI website, infra. Otherwise, ask me and I'll be delighted to help. Also: any patient has the right to palliation of pain. Stafford should, if he wishes, demand sedation or anesthesia. I have twice done so, and the result was very good. > I am pretty apprehensive about this and rightfully so. No matter what the > outcome, I will obtain a second opinion before I will allow any surgery to > take place. I see there are all sorts of procedures to remove the cancer, > some better than others. Which is the best recommended procedure? That is up to Stafford. There are many variables, and Stafford must educate himself, select his treatment based upon an *informed* decision, and never look back. The operative word is *informed*. Two books on the subject are: _A Primer on Prostate Cancer_ subtitled "The Empowered Patient's Guide" by Stephen B. Strum, a medical oncologist specialising in prostate cancer, and _Guide to Surviving Prostate Cancer_ by Patrick Walsh, a urologist/surgeon. Online resources abound. I recommend these two useful sites, among many: Prostate Cancer Research Institute: http://prostate-cancer.org/index.html and the support group Us Too! http://ustoo.com/ Us Too! has local chapters, and Stafford might find one convenient to him on the above website. If Stafford has joined the PCa club, which no one wants to join, his life has fundamentally changed. I and the others on this NG are ready, willing and able to help him cope. Regards, Steve J __ "Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.'' --Sir Winston L. S. Churchill >> I'm 63, in good health. >> [quoted text clipped - 96 lines] > might of the enemy.'' > --Sir Winston L. S. Churchill To answer your questions: I've had PSA tests done for many many years and they have all been within normal limits. Up until four months ago when it was higher than 4 and the physician put me on antibiotics. I had another PSA a month later and was told it was ok. Not so, when I went to the VA to establish my records since I moved here, I had to undergo more exams to establish a baseline for my new physician. My PSA was 5. I had another PSA a month later - four days ago, and it was 5.6. I feel waiting another month or six weeks for another PSA test is unwarranted and opted for the biopsy. I have a good friend out in Seattle that underwent the placement of seeds in his prostate with outstanding results. He has been cancer free now for three years. He's the one I'll need to lean on for close support and advice. But it's also great to have such a newsgroup as this to voice your concerns and receive support and information without all the crap that sometimes goes on in newsgroups. I am most appreciative for the answers I have been receiving on this. It will definately make the forthcoming road I have to travel easier. Hopefully you are correct in that it's my enlarged prostate causing the high PSA. I will ask for sedation during the biopsy. I'm a chicken when it comes to poking me with needles. Welcome. The rubber band analogy is a very good one. The needle is threaded inside a very long device, of which only a finger length goes up inside you. The device is about the thickness of a cigar, so it should not hurt at all. Few men here have reported any pain. I remember one man who said he had some kind of cramps for many hours afterwards. He seems to have been very tense about the whole thing. The more you can relax, the better. Here's wishing you the all-clear. jimhoney standard RRP age 52, cured, no significant aftereffects > Welcome. > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > jimhoney > standard RRP age 52, cured, no significant aftereffects Thanks Jim. Your response was very enlightening and puts me more at ease. I would have paid big bucks for a female Urologist! You're a lucky man... LOL  SignatureJK Sinrod Sinrod Stained Glass Studios www.sinrodstudios.com Coney Island Memories www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories Stafford, Your prostate problem and age could certainly cause you a 5.0 or higher PSA. The biopsy was absolutely painless, during and after, for me. I was given some happy juice. I am told that I was awake, but I don't remember anything. Same as my colonoscopy. Some here have complained of pain, but most have had no trouble with biopsies. At least one guy had an easy biopsy and another more painful one. Make sure you're doc applies desensitation medication and/or happy juice. SignatureProstate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron (1 mo) 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non Illegitimi carborundum > I'm 63, in good health. > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > > Stafford >Subject: New To Group >From: "Stafford" privacy@is.better.org [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >pain well. They are going to send me some anti-biotics to take before the >procedure. Yes, a very thick rubber band... There is no "sharp" pain, no pain like a knife or needle, but it is "pressure". The anticipation is the worst part, like dental work. Just practice a bit of meditation. You will be glad when it is over, don't underestimate it, but do relax. >Is there anything else I should be aware of? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Stafford (snippage) > I asked her how the biopsy is performed and she said it's like a rectal exam > except that a small needle is inserted into the prostate a few times. I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Is there anything else I should be aware of? Stafford, When I first joined this group there was some mention here that one or more individuals experienced a LOT of pain during their biopsies. And that is the part I dwelled on. I was expecting a tremdous amount of pain when I went in for my biopsy. Looking at the needle didn't help either. It was an 18 gauge needle that looked like it was as big around as a coat hanger! Then the uro had me lay on my side and used the ultasonic probe as advertised with the needle in place. He snapped it the first time and I said "Is that it?" It was virutally painless for me. he took 12 samples in different areas of the prostate. Each time the needle is sent through the wall of your rectal colon into different areas (and two sides) of the prostate. When it was all done, I was given one more antibiotic pill to take. I did have some discomforting aching in my rectum but it was nothing like I had geared myself up for. It was a piece-o-cake! Joining this group helped me realize two things; one, I wasn't in this boat alone, and two - educate myself by reading Walsh's book and Sheldon's book on surviving prostate cancer. And I suggest the same for you. Read up! Ask questions. Get second opinions if necessary. Explore all the avenues available and then make a wiser decision armed with knowledge. 63 is still pretty young you know.... Philski A special thanks to everyone that responded to my original posting. All responses have been very comforting and reassuring. I received my written instructions today for the biopsy and they said that I should take the Cipro two days before twice a day and one the morning of the procedure (10 am). Then one following. I'm going into this like I go to the dentist but not worried about pain. I'm already on Percocet for another problem and the more I think of it the more I think the Percocet may be part of my prostate problem. It is enlarged and as someone pointed out, it could be the reason for a high PSA, even the nurse pointed that out to me. The type of pain I have cannot be subdued by any other pain reliever that I know of. I've tried other stuff to include vicodin to no avail. The doc even wrote me for Oxycodone, a immediate response version of Oxycontin which is delayed release. It didn't do as good a job as the Percs, so he put me back on them. I've read where narcotic medications can enlarge the prostate and it's advised that people with enlarged prostates not take narcotic medications. What am I to do? As long as my prostate stays clean I suppose there isn't a problem. I may want to have a TURP one day as my urine flow has slowed down a bit and erections are hard to achieve now. I'm also on blood pressure meds which lower my sex drive anyway. Maybe a TURP which I'll inquire about will help both with the PSA and my urination. They put me on Prazosin capsules and told me to take one or two a night. I was doing that and it did help but boy does it have side effects. I don't want to get out of bed in the morning. Well, hell, I'm retired anyway and I'm usually now in bed until 8 or so. The Uro nurse told me to lay off of them to see if I can stand not peeing three or more times a night. I'm trying. Cut off for liquids is around 7 p.m. I suppose the TURP (Ream Job) is a different issue altogether. I'll be hanging around a bit to see how my biopsy turns out so I can let you all know about it. Thanks again for the education. Stafford (my middle name) > (snippage) > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Philski Right, TURP is an entirely different issue, a debulking procedure for noncancerous prostate glands. Hope all goes well for you. jimhoney |
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