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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / October 2004Post Seeding Experiences Urination Issues!!!
Hi: I am due for seeing on Nov 2, and just got the following "form letter" from my Physician, which contains information I did not have before. This sounds much more unpleasant (and limiting) than anything he had prepared me for in our "decision making" discussion. I have seen people on here who claim to have taken relatively long trips a day or so after seeing, and others who appear to have had "just a bit" of trouble with the urination. My question is : Do the effects that are outlined here match the experiences of others, or is my doctor trying to put the "worst case" so that I am prepared for what might (PERHAPS) happen. Id appreciate your reactions. Thanks John Baker ______________________________________________________________________ WHAT TO EXPECT AFTER SEEDING For the first weeks you may have very strong urges to urinate, without result; this may be accompanied by pain (often severe) in the prostate area. You may have great difficulty getting a stream started. Finally painful urination starts, dribbling at first You will very likely find yourself involuntarily straining hard to go, so be prepared to sit down on the toilet quickly since you may often have a minor bowel movement, especially when a stream develops. Lightly massaging the end of the penis helps to start the process, also pressing with stiff fingers into the belly at bladder level. Urges to urinate come about every hour or so, night or day, so be prepared to lose a lot of sleep. The nights seem to be worse, for some reason. During the day you may find it beneficial to anticipate the urge to go by attempting to urinate at less than hourly intervals. Don't make any plans involving trips or activities that would keep you out of reach of a bathroom for more than an hour, or that put much drain on your physical capabilities. After 3 or 4 weeks the daytime "events" will become less painful and more manageable, but nights can continue to be painful. Medication will be offered, but its effect is hard to measure. After 5 or 6 weeks the nights will probably start to ease up. At this point you may be down to what the handout literature claims as "after effects": "Frequent urination, with burning, sense of urgency, weaker stream". John, that is about right. I found the best relief whenever I had to urinate but could not was to sit is a bath tub of warm water. Never had to be catherized as some, just remember about sitting in the tub. As in all things, it'll will over...... Good luck. By the way, I would still go the sedding route if I had to do it all over. Mike > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > down to what the handout literature claims as "after effects": "Frequent urination, with > burning, sense of urgency, weaker stream". > I am due for seeing on Nov 2, and just got the following "form letter" from my Physician, > which contains information I did not have before. This sounds much more unpleasant (and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > or is my doctor trying to put the "worst case" so that I am prepared for what might > (PERHAPS) happen. (su-nip the letter, for brevity) I just concluded a course of high-intensity IMRT, not brachytherapy, to which latter I think John refers. Not, of course, exactly the same, but somewhat similar in that they're both RT. And, to get to the point, my side effects are/were remarkably similar to those outlined in the letter. Perhaps I can therefore provide some insight. I suggest consulting with the medic re: use of Flomax to aid in urination. It has worked well for me, both after my cryo in 11/03 and presently. It relaxes the muscles and eases matters considerably. Info can be found at: http://www.rxlist.com Not that it's not slower; it's an improvement over the scary scenario in the letter. The sensation -- to me -- is more like a chill than a burning. Also: the risk of a small BM does exist. I've found a small dosage (half that which is recommended, but that's just me) of loperamide HCl (generic Imodium A-D) aids quite a bit in controlling this. Not to pun, but it will, er, pass. I do suspect that the medic was indeed presenting a worst-case scenario. It's called "defensive medicine." Defense of the medic, not the patient. Regards, Steve J __ "Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.'' --Sir Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill Hi again.. Thank you for your observations. I guess I am a bit upset that this is so different from the information I see in many of the web sites explaining seeding and what happens. Most of them say you are "back to normal activities" within a few days -- your comments make me feel that this is far from the case! Love to hear from others.. Thanks again John Baker >Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >down to what the handout literature claims as "after effects": "Frequent urination, with >burning, sense of urgency, weaker stream". Hi John, These are NOT the normal side effects (possibly the worst, but not the norm). I had a seed implant 6/2/04 w/Pd103 seeds , the worst was about three to four weeks post implant , with steady improvement after that with respect to urinary function (retention and urgency). Four months post implant my only complaint is about the Lupron that I've been on since last Nov. I think, most folks who have gone the brachytheraphy route would generally agree with what I've stated as far as side effects are concerned. There are two other men who participate in this group, who have had a similar procedure about the same time that had similar results with respect to side effects. Bottom line (in my opinion, which is worth what you're paying for it) your Dr. is either; covering his butt by painting the worst case scenario and hoping for better results or he is sold on the idea that surgery is the only route to go. The choice of treatment protocols is a tough choice to make, but, it's your choice and should only be made following due research and discussion with other medical professionals and your loved ones. Tom > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > down to what the handout literature claims as "after effects": "Frequent urination, with > burning, sense of urgency, weaker stream". John, I had none of the experiences mentioned. Some months prior to the seeding I had a TUIP to enlarge the urethra. The urologist said it was needed to prevent blockage from the swelling. The morning after the seeding I went to the urologists office to have the catheter removed. Then I was instructed to drink a large amount of water to see if I could urinate. No problem. I then began the two hour drive home. I had some urgency which meant that when I had the urge I had better not wait. Any leakage was controlled with a folded paper towel in my shorts. I had NO pain urinating, no problem starting the stream and no accidents. The only unexpected problem was the sensation that I was sitting on a billiard ball (swelling) that lasted for several weeks. ---MIKE--- > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > John Baker > ______________________________________________________________________ John, I just want to add a little balance for you here. I had seed implants on July 14, 2004. I'm 57 years old. I had 2 painful urinations immediately after the implants and after the catheter was removed and then everything returned to normal with the help of FloMax. My doctor gave me an open ended prescription and told me to take 1 or 2 every day as needed. I found I needed 2 for about the first 6 or 7 weeks and then went down to 1 per day. My only side affect has been more frequent urination, up to maybe 5 or 6 times per day and 2 times at night. I have had no trouble starting the stream, no burning and no trouble stopping the stream. I've also had no trouble holding back if it was not convenient to go. I would describe my side affects as minimal to non existent. I was back to virtually normal activity the day after the implants. I know this is not everyone's experience but not everyone has the worst case side affects and at least according to my doctor most of his patients are closer to my story than the worst case described by your medic. I hope this eases your mind a little. Doug Sounds like your doctor is CHA (Covering His *ss). Most everyone goes through this with minimal problems. The doctors usually prescribe Hytrin or Flomax and you will begin taking that right away. Also you will be given an antibiotic usually started right before surgery. And some sort of anti-inflammatory to help to keep the swelling down. When you receive your seeds it might be as an out-patient or a one night stay in the hospital. My husband had his seeds placed about 8:30 AM and was in the car on his way home by noon. (I drove - not him!) The important thing is to stay quiet for several days after the seeds are placed. Be a total couch potato!!! If you don't you chance dislodging a seed! My husband was given Hytrin and was allowed to take up to 6 mg a day. At first he took them at night but realized they wore off and so did the effect so he took them at night and during the day. He'd still get up maybe twice through the night to urinate. During the day he never passed up the opportunity to use the bathroom. About 2 hours was the max time he could go without taking a break. Road trips were wonderful. Usually I'm the one asking for a pee stop and for a change he was suggesting it. Now's he's back to being a camel . :-( As for the pain with urination. Some guys have problems for a few weeks, some only for a few days. Occasionally someone will have a major problem. My husband was one of the unlucky ones who had problems that lasted for months. He had the white knuckled, want to drop to your knees kind of pain trying to start the stream even with the Hytrin. The doctor said the swelling was putting pressure on a nerve that was controlling the valve coming off the bladder. Two and a half years later and he has no problems but once in a while he will get an occasional twinge as he starts. So yes, it can happen but it is very rare! The kicker is he was so occupied with the "normal" pain he didn't notice he had a slightly different pain with his urination. Seems he picked up a bladder infection and didn't realize it until he was in deep trouble. One night in the ER with three rounds of IV antibiotics, a Rx for more antibiotics and he was fine. He has no memory of ever having a bladder infection before in his life. Bev > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > down to what the handout literature claims as "after effects": "Frequent urination, with > burning, sense of urgency, weaker stream". > Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > John Baker __<Snip>____________________________________________________________________ John, These responses are typical of the group of men getting seeds and EBRT when I was there in GA. One or two of our group of about 20 close comrades had more trouble, but most didn't have near the "worst-case scenario" your letter described. I am 55, had seed implants on Wed., 2/25/04. Drove 120 miles home, over complaints of wife/copilot, the next day. Worked my Postal route that Sat. Three weeks later started EBRT(6wk.). Stayed there four nights each week and came home to work Saturdays. I had some early urgency effects, well handled with Flowmax and planning my stops. Like Stephen, not so much pain as it was a cold shiver(?) when urinating. If only my bad knees were so little trouble! Best regards, Terry Hi: All I can say is that you guys are terrific! I know of no one in my small world who has had this procedure, so had no one to ask and compare notes with. The responses here reassure me that, while no one knows until its over, the warning note was intended to cover the doctor so that if things did go bad I could not say "no one told me what to expect!" You have eased my mind no end. It sounds as if bladder infection is really more of a risk than the urination issue, and I will ask my doctor specifically about that. Thank you all very much John Baker >Hi: > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >down to what the handout literature claims as "after effects": "Frequent urination, with >burning, sense of urgency, weaker stream". Hi John, My 2 cents, 110 PD-103 Seeds June 10, 2004 after 5 weeks of Four-Field EBRT My experience immediately following was unpleasant (sometimes very unpleasant) but bearable peeing. Since I may not have complained about it in my postings (can't remember - senior moment) I may have given the false impression that I had no problems at all. I forgot what it was like to be able to pee without straining or feeling discomfort. Then, at one month and five days, it was like turning on a switch. My first "successful" pee was such a shock it was cause for celebration and I had to tell everyone - including this newsgroup :-) I started out with two Flowmax per day and have been on one per day since August. I try to cut back further but when I do, I quickly notice digression and resume the one per day. I occasionally use a pad just in case but have never needed it. Even on long plane rides. I would just make sure I've gone before the announcement for final approach. One side-affect I still experience is that I suddenly get the urge when my body senses that I can. Very strange. I can be in a car for a long time and be just fine but as soon as I get out of the car, I have to race to the bathroom. The urge comes about very suddenly but only when I have the opportunity to go. Also, I have to remind myself to go before getting in the shower or run the risk of pulling a George Castanza. :-> Once it decides to go, and nothing brings about that urge like running water, it does what it wants. Larry |
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