I had an RRP two months ago and have my 1st PSA test in two weeks. My
father was diagnosed with Pca in his mid 70's and opted for Watchful
Waiting. At age 77 he had a heart attack and was told he needed new
heart valves to survive but was only given a 20% chance of surviving
the surgery. He was a retired Cardiologist and asked the surgery be
done knowing the risks. The medical team, however, had other ideas and
convinced my mother that his quality of life afterwards was not
promising with his Pca diagnosis (back in 1988 before early PSA
detection was available). He was awake but not told of the medical
decision to let him die. Instead, they "changed his medication" which
meant knocking him out with a drug in his IV until he died two days
later. This has always bothered me as a medical ethics question. The
Pca diagnosis seemed to be a primary factor in this decision.
jimhoney - 03 Sep 2004 08:23 GMT
> I had an RRP two months ago and have my 1st PSA test in two weeks. My
> father was diagnosed with Pca in his mid 70's and opted for Watchful
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> later. This has always bothered me as a medical ethics question. The
> Pca diagnosis seemed to be a primary factor in this decision.
Did they say what stage his case was? Of if there is no record, did he have
any symptoms yet?
jimhoney
Jim Hammond - 04 Sep 2004 03:25 GMT
> > I had an RRP two months ago and have my 1st PSA test in two weeks. My
> > father was diagnosed with Pca in his mid 70's and opted for Watchful
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> jimhoney
I don't know the medical record, but he was having trouble getting
around and did not often leave his condo. The Pca may have metasized
to his bones and may not have. I did not live close by and was not
privy to the details.
jimhoney - 04 Sep 2004 11:00 GMT
> > > I had an RRP two months ago and have my 1st PSA test in two weeks. My
> > > father was diagnosed with Pca in his mid 70's and opted for Watchful
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> to his bones and may not have. I did not live close by and was not
> privy to the details.
Suggest getting a copy of the death certificate. It may list primary and
secondary causes. If you see the words "highly metastacized," your concern
about medical ethics may be unwarranted. If not, then the question remains,
can a surgeon refuse to do surgery? I honestly don't know.
jimhoney
c palmer - 03 Sep 2004 09:02 GMT
hi jim - i think we all question some of these decisions made by the
doctors when it comes to our fathers. i know i question the doctors
that treated my dad on the same watchful waiting.
not knowing all the facts in your case, but commenting on the 20% chance
of survival. since your father was a cardiologist, he very well knew
the diagnosis, the risk and the prognosis.
just focusing on that part of the situation, i would have to say that it
was your father's decision to go for it and that decision should have
been honored.
i can't really say anything regarding the medical team and what caused
them to make this decision.
i would say that if it bothers you, go ahead and research it in order to
get some closure. i did this, when my mother died.
hope this helps.
~ curtis
knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
Gary Nichols - 04 Sep 2004 13:52 GMT
>I had an RRP two months ago and have my 1st PSA test in two weeks. My
>father was diagnosed with Pca in his mid 70's and opted for Watchful
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>later. This has always bothered me as a medical ethics question. The
>Pca diagnosis seemed to be a primary factor in this decision.
I hate to bother you in your time of sorrow but 'knocking him out' and
letting him die rather than try to save his life is, to me, a definite
breach of medical ethics. It's gruesome. How does anyone know what
someone wants for their 'quality of life' unless they ask him. He
requested that the surgery be done. They should have acquiesced to
his wishes.
You should talk and talk and talk to the doctors involved.
My prayers are with you and your family.
This whole thing has made me cry for your poor father.
Gary Nichols
Steve Kramer - 04 Sep 2004 18:48 GMT
There are several reasons I can think of to dismiss the thought. Most
prominent is, there is nothing you can do about it. Next is, you had
nothing to do with it.
But, if you could do something about it or did have something to do with it,
there would still be some really good reasons. I watched my father die of
PCa and he had a heart attack along the way.... I sure wish he had died of
the heart attack.

Signature
Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA .07 .05
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04
non illegitimi carborundum
> I had an RRP two months ago and have my 1st PSA test in two weeks. My
> father was diagnosed with Pca in his mid 70's and opted for Watchful
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> later. This has always bothered me as a medical ethics question. The
> Pca diagnosis seemed to be a primary factor in this decision.