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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / June 2004

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Biochemical relapse after RP

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Just - 17 Jun 2004 17:25 GMT
There seems to exist a "consensus" (sort of) regarding the following:
- biochemical relapse after RP if you reach 0.2 PSA
- salvage radiation desirably under 1.0

I have a doubt though:
- should you have salvage readiation as soon as possible after you
reach 0.2 to maximize efficacy.
- should you wait until you are close to 1.0 to postpone any
undesirable side effects of salvage radiation.

I did not find published studies / documents that cover this specific
issue. My uro says that there are conflicting views on this but he
favours RT soon after biochemical relapse. He also advised that side
effects of conformal radiation are minimal if done by an expert and he
does not see this as an issue...

Anyone else has further info / comments?

Tks.

Just
Dave P - 17 Jun 2004 20:24 GMT
A recent report stated that for Salvage Radiation to be most effective it
should start befor the PSA reaches 1.

I did read research last year and one report stated (in the study) there was
statistical significance for success for people getting  SR with a PSA of
.46 or lower.

I believe that there was a 77% chance of biochemical free relapse at the 5
year mark - for men that received SR before there PSA hit .46
That's close to 8 out of 10 men having a chance for cure or at least long
term remission. These numbers were almost the same as for men that received
adjuvant radiation.

A study just came out yeseterday JAMA and the lead researcher/physician
stated that he would give every men that had a positive margins radiation
regardless of psa - even if it was <0.1  Alot of people disagree with him
since a high percentage of men that have positive margins never have an
increase in their psa.

SR is still controversial and confusing.  It works for some men and not for
others since there are so many variables invovled - positive margins,
seminal vesicle involvement, time to psa rise, doubling time, gleason grade
etc.... Most of the research over the past few years state that the chances
for a cure or long term remission is 50/50 with Salvage radiation.

My rad/onc told me that there is a 50% chance that after SR your PSA will
be<0.1 and a 50% chance after that it will remain <0.1 So he was telling me
the chances of it working long term were around 25%.

My answer would be yes to get SR as soon as possible after you know your psa
is rising. To get it before your psa reaches .46 would be ideal according to
one study.  Only problem is you might not have a rise or your doubling time
may be well over one year OR it may stay at 0.2 etc...

This is why you have to stay on top of things with your physician and get
2nd and 3rd opinions with specialists. Most people wait a few months to find
out if it is a true rise - 3 continous rises - over 9 months  or wait for it
to double once again from 0.2 to 0.4 etc......

The choice is yours. It is better to be totally informed about SR before
making a decision. Ask the experts (rad/onc, surgeons etc) in your area or a
close major metropolitan area before you make a decision. Most of the
members of this newsgroup are also experts in PCa in my opinion.

Wishing you the best of health.

Dave P

> There seems to exist a "consensus" (sort of) regarding the following:
> - biochemical relapse after RP if you reach 0.2 PSA
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Just
Just - 18 Jun 2004 10:37 GMT
David,

Many thanks for the information.

Would you by any chance have a link for the report that mentions
"statistical significance for success for people getting  SR with a
PSA of .46 or lower"? Many thanks.

From all I have read so far, I am inclined to have SR immediatly
if/when PSA reaches 0.2 (particularly if I have constant/regular
increases on all future readings - actually I am getting increases
since April 2002...).

Just

PSA 18.5 12/1998 @ 52
Biopsy 03/1999 G7 (3+4)
RRP 03/1999 G7 (3+4), T2b
Extra-capsular extension: negative
Lymph node involvement: negative
Seminal vesicle involvement: negative
Perineural invasion: negative
Surgical margins: negative
PSA  <0.04 to 0.14, increases on all readings (5) since April 2002
PSADT 1.53 years (0.2 possibly in 1st QT 2005 if trend persists)
Erections: Caverject or V

>A recent report stated that for Salvage Radiation to be most effective it
>should start befor the PSA reaches 1.
[quoted text clipped - 65 lines]
>>
>> Just
Dave P - 18 Jun 2004 14:53 GMT
Just,

No I dont have it sorry.

You will have to search for it using the search tool on the below link site.
There are so many. It may take some time to find it. As you search you find
a trend - the lower the psa before SR the better the chance for cure or long
term remission. In one years time it seems that there have many numerous
studies that indicate that SR is more beneficial than what people once
thought. In the search tool type: salvage radiation and prostate cancer
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed

This link below has a study that states that SR worked best for patients
that had 0.6 or below
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstra
ct&list_uids=14532786


Good luck.

Dave P

> David,
>
[quoted text clipped - 92 lines]
> >>
> >> Just
 
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