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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / May 2004

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Lupron question??

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Beverley - 20 May 2004 02:19 GMT
Ok guys. My FIL is on Lupron. Gosh, does he need happy pills big time!!!
Would you say this is a normal side effect of Lupron? Or is he just a normal
cranky old man getting worse in his old age? He's 82, he's had a stoke, his
BP problems are hopefully under control, he's blind in one eye (not fixable)
and in general the body is wearing out! But he's making everyone's life
miserable.
:-(
Bev
MH - 20 May 2004 02:31 GMT
Sounds like *his* life is miserable, Bev.... and misery loves company. :-(

Would he be willing to talk with someone about possible depression?  A
therapist or mental health professional?  Sounds like there is more going on
that just Lupron shots.

I wish I had a good reply for you.  You are always so helpful to others
here.

Take care,
MikeH

> Ok guys. My FIL is on Lupron. Gosh, does he need happy pills big time!!!
> Would you say this is a normal side effect of Lupron? Or is he just a normal
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> :-(
> Bev
c palmer - 20 May 2004 02:43 GMT
well bev - it's going to get worse.........for a little while.   as the
lupron sets in and his moods starts swinging and he's already unhappy,
so when he hits the lows, don't be surprise if he starts crying at the
drop of a hat and sometimes you  don't need the hat.

it hit my dad hard.  he was a stone wall all his life, and i never saw
him cry, even when he had to have 130 stitches put in his face from a
knife fight. (i told you he's a stone wall)  well, after being on lupron
for while, he would start crying and what's different that a normal
crying person is that he's still trying to tell you something through
the tears.  

i hope that helps.

~ curtis

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."
John Loomis - 20 May 2004 03:16 GMT
Lupron.....Jeez...I was ready to figure out what diagnoses I have, and was
ready for ebrt...... Anyway, i thought ebrt was the way to go and directed
per. Dr. in a small town/
to get Lupron.  I chose that path, went into the Docs office, he had me pull
my pants down, and inject in my butt Lupron.
It cost 1500.00.
Well, I figured, we are getting cured?
No way....The Lupron, not only increased my testosterone, heavily, and then
blank....nada.....
So, Lupron tells the testosterone to hurry up and get more, and then falls
fast...
I had hot flashes, redness, sweating, and felt bad at the joints?
I am younger, and realize we are talking about apples and oranges.
Lupron is like menopause...It makes you feel not too good.....
Hope I helped, just me, John Loomis...full of pis and vinegar
> Ok guys. My FIL is on Lupron. Gosh, does he need happy pills big time!!!
> Would you say this is a normal side effect of Lupron? Or is he just a normal
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> :-(
> Bev
olfart - 20 May 2004 03:45 GMT
> Lupron.....Jeez...I was ready to figure out what diagnoses I have, and was
> ready for ebrt...... Anyway, i thought ebrt was the way to go and directed
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Lupron is like menopause...It makes you feel not too good.....
> Hope I helped, just me, John Loomis...full of pis and vinegar
John,
Your Dr forgot to give you Eulixen for 30 days before the Lupron shot to
eliminate or at least minimize the testosterone flash. I got it and the
first 6 weeks or so after the Lupron I still had some of the side effects
you mentioned. Bet you really felt like crap until your system stabilized.
Beverley - 20 May 2004 04:45 GMT
FIL is on his 3rd(?) three month Lupron shot. Seems he is getting crankier
with each one. I'm not talking about depression. Depression I think we could
all handle but this is getting really bad and my MIL will not stand up to
him. She just tries to smooth things over. Okay, she's the one who has to
live with him but he's making her life miserable and everyone else's, too.
Bev

> > Lupron.....Jeez...I was ready to figure out what diagnoses I have, and was
> > ready for ebrt...... Anyway, i thought ebrt was the way to go and directed
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> first 6 weeks or so after the Lupron I still had some of the side effects
> you mentioned. Bet you really felt like crap until your system stabilized.
olfart - 20 May 2004 13:07 GMT
> FIL is on his 3rd(?) three month Lupron shot. Seems he is getting crankier
> with each one. I'm not talking about depression. Depression I think we could
> all handle but this is getting really bad and my MIL will not stand up to
> him. She just tries to smooth things over. Okay, she's the one who has to
> live with him but he's making her life miserable and everyone else's, too.
> Bev

Some of it could be the way he is feeling physically. In my case with Lupron
and 31 of 42 Rads completed I have some really good and some really crappy
days. As soon as I get up in the morning I can tell how it's going to go
that day. If it's one of those days where the Mack truck just backed over me
and my energy level is about zero, I tend to get a antsy. I may have planned
a project for the day, work in the yard or in my shop and I don't have
enough energy to get up and dressed. I was probably up every hour the night
before trying to pee with a case of the runs thrown in for good measure.
Other days I feel pretty good. I know that these side effects are just
annoyances that will soon pass and that things could be alot worse than they
are, but I have always been very active and not being able to do what I
want, when I want is a bummer. If he has interests (hobbies, etc) that he is
unable to do because of the way he feels, he might be able to develop some
other interests that don't require as much energy.
Age - 69
8/12/02 - PSA 3.7
10/13/03 - PSA 4.69
11/11/03 - PSA 4.8
11/18/03 - Biopsy - 10 cores
one core-25% of core-Gleason 4+4=8
all other cores benign tissue
12/10/03 - Consult - Oncologist
12/16/03 - Consult - Radiation Oncologist
Treatment Plan - Northeast Ga Cancer Center
HT - started 12/17/03 - Eulixen & Lupron (2nd 4 mo Lupron-4/26)
2/10/04 - Started - Flowmax and Megastrol
Radiation - IMRT to begin 3/30/04 - 42 treatments
Steve Kramer - 20 May 2004 11:50 GMT
As you know, I've been on Lupron for 10 months.  I think I swap moods a tad
more quickly than I did without Lupron.  But, I don't know if it's
stress-induced or Lupron.  Things are pretty dysfunctional at work.  In any
case, it has not been anything that I don't recognize in myself almost
immediately and, immediately thereafter, change for the benefit of those
around me.

I think some people use Prosac, Depression, Hormones, etc. as an excuse to
behave badly.  He still has a brain and he knows how to use it.  Tell him to
stop the crap!

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .07 .05
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04

> Ok guys. My FIL is on Lupron. Gosh, does he need happy pills big time!!!
> Would you say this is a normal side effect of Lupron? Or is he just a normal
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> :-(
> Bev
Tom C - 21 May 2004 01:34 GMT
Bev,
I've only been on Lupron about half the time that Steve has, however, I must
agree that it's a pain in the butt to experience the symptoms that a lot of
women go through during menopause and I don't like it either, but the Lupron
may be helping him. Perhaps what he needs is a good *sit down and listen
session* to make him aware of the fact that his loved ones care about him;
and stop making things miserable for them, they are only trying to help him
and accommodate his needs and desires.

Some of your previous posts hinted you might be  from the Chesapeake Bay
region, if your FIL is / was a waterman (some of the best folks I've had the
opportunity to know), that explains his cantankerousness ;-))

Tom

> As you know, I've been on Lupron for 10 months.  I think I swap moods a tad
> more quickly than I did without Lupron.  But, I don't know if it's
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> > :-(
> > Bev
jhlms - 21 May 2004 02:08 GMT
Steve,
I don't know Lupron.
I don't know mood swings.
....and I certainly don't know mental/emotional disorders.
But I think you'll agree that each and every individual reacts differently
to medications based upon existing prescribed meds, environment, current
(and past) emotional state, and so on, and so on.
IMHO,Bev's FIL needs to be seen by a therapist.  If he refuses to go, a
suitable relative should discuss his "state of mind" with a physician to
determine if the gentleman is clinically depressed.
Personally, I would think twice about the "tough love" approach until it was
*REALLY* determined that the old codger was pulling the **I'm sick, and hate
it, so I'm gonna make everyone miserable because of it** routine.
There might be something chemically going on that you, yourself, did not
experience.
Respectfully,
jh

> As you know, I've been on Lupron for 10 months.  I think I swap moods a tad
> more quickly than I did without Lupron.  But, I don't know if it's
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> > :-(
> > Bev
Alan Meyer - 21 May 2004 03:55 GMT
...
> Personally, I would think twice about the "tough love" approach until it was
> *REALLY* determined that the old codger was pulling the **I'm sick, and hate
> it, so I'm gonna make everyone miserable because of it** routine.
> There might be something chemically going on ...

That's an excellent point jh.

There's a good chance that the problem is psychological
or even age/dementia related.  But it would be terrible
to treat the guy that way if, in fact, there is a correctable
medical problem.

If it comes down to tough love, then it would be good for
his relatives to know that they really gave him the benefit
of the doubt and did everything they could to find a
medical solution before doing what might need to be done.

  Alan
Steve Kramer - 21 May 2004 11:58 GMT
I have very little experience with Lupron and all my experience with mood
swings and depression are with those around me.  But, I know therapy is like
boat ownership -- you pay lots of money but nothing changes.  But, hey,
that's my hang-up.

The other thing I know about mood swings and derpressionis that when they
are behaving badly and you tell them about it, they recognize it and
sometimes change.

You can also require a change if you have the muscle.  My  SIL was about the
worst I've seen, but when she was told to stop calling my home or I'd have
her arrested, she stopped calling.  Months later, she started behaving and
now respects me more than anyone else.

> Steve,
> I don't know Lupron.
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
> > > :-(
> > > Bev
Alan Meyer - 20 May 2004 22:22 GMT
> Ok guys. My FIL is on Lupron. Gosh, does he need happy pills big time!!!
> Would you say this is a normal side effect of Lupron? Or is he just a normal
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> :-(
> Bev

There are two issues here.  One is what to do with your
father-in-law.  If he's a guy that will open up to a counselor,
that would be a good thing to try.  If he's willing to listen
to reason from family members, that's another.  If he's
willing to take Prozac or some other anti-depressant
or happy pill of some kind, that's a third.  But he may
well not be willing to do any of those things.

Which brings us to the other issue.

The other issue is protecting everyone else in the family.
I'm sure all of you want to do your best by him, but you've
also got to recognize that if he won't listen to advice and
won't let up, then you've got to still be nice to him, but
not allow yourselves to get too upset or too ready to jump
to do his bidding.

His situation is very hard.  There's no doubt about it.  It
would depress anyone.  Some people can rise above
that.  Some can't.  The people who love him can
understand and sympathize with him.  But they can't
allow themselves to be sucked down the drain with him.
That won't help him at all.  It will just hurt you.  So
you've got to give yourselves permission to be a little
callous sometimes - understanding that it's not motivated
by callousness and it's not really hurting him, it's just
doing what needs to be done.

Well, I've said before that I'm not a doctor.  Now I'll
say that I'm not a professional counselor either (though
I'm married to one and could probably play one on TV :)
So that's my non-professional 2 cents.

   Alan
bowichpapa@webtv.net - 21 May 2004 03:38 GMT
One thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the
possibility of dementia.  It's a real possibility in an 82-year old who
has both age and a stroke affecting him.  Personality changes are common
in dementia.
Steve Kramer - 21 May 2004 12:06 GMT
I concur.  And if it is a stroke and part of the brain was affected, it is a
long, upward fight to bring back normalcy.  Dementia is about as bad.  The
bad thing about dementia is that the person can be perfectly justified in
acting teh way he is acting depending one what he thinks he is responding
to.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .07 .05
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04

> One thing that I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is the
> possibility of dementia.  It's a real possibility in an 82-year old who
> has both age and a stroke affecting him.  Personality changes are common
> in dementia.
 
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