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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / May 2004Learn something new every day-IMRT
Had a lengthy chat with my 2 Rad Oncs. I have 15 more IMRT's to go to finish up and as I have said in previous posts I've been having alot of urinary and prostate swelling probs. I assumed that once I finished the IMRT that I could get my URO to repair the plumbing. They would like me to wait at least 4-6 mo before having any"major work" done. What I didn't know is that the IMRT treatments continue to kill cells during that time even though I have finished the actual treatments. I don't think it will be a problem for me - just thought I would pass along this info since I might not be the only one who didn't realize how long the IMRT continues to work. Age - 69 8/12/02 - PSA 3.7 10/13/03 - PSA 4.69 11/11/03 - PSA 4.8 11/18/03 - Biopsy - 10 cores one core-25% of core-Gleason 4+4=8 all other cores benign tissue 12/10/03 - Consult - Oncologist 12/16/03 - Consult - Radiation Oncologist Treatment Plan - Northeast Ga Cancer Center HT - started 12/17/03 - Eulixen & Lupron (2nd 4 mo Lupron-4/26) 2/10/04 - Started - Flowmax and Megastrol Radiation - IMRT to begin 3/30/04 - 42 treatments Good luck, ol, I hope things don't get any worse for you. FWIW, my oncologist told me that I shouldn't experience anything worse than I already have ( completed the last of 25 EBRT's last Friday). Hope that's true for you, too. Time is the ultimate arbiter so we'll see . . . Larry Hi Larry.... Ron had 25 EBRT two weeks after the second HDR and I read up on side effects coz we were going to Quebec. The one they warned us about did happen. Day 14 after the end of EBRT you may feel really tired.....Ron did......right on the button!! Got better in a day or so. He really had no after effects other than some fatigue as I recall. But something I am having him checked for right now is his haemoglobin...he seems to tire easier even now. (we won't mention his age, grin) My chiropractor suggested it as he thought radiation could cause a bit of anemia. Just something to look out for.....let us know how you feel on Day 14!! Cheers.....Heather > Good luck, ol, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Larry Hi Heather, Well, on day 14 (5/28) I will be on an airplane from STL to SEA. Non-stop. So maybe I'll just sleep on the plane and all day - and all weekend. I'll let you know how it goes. Thanks for caring, Larry > Hi Larry.... > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > > > Larry hi ol - the time delay is correct. another way of explaining this is look at a microwave with a piece of meat in it. you set the timer to 4 minutes. when the timer goes off. you open the door and pull out the meat - question???? - what is the meat still doing??? answer - cooking, even though you have removed it from the microwave, you can hear it sizzle and it will sizzle for a short time before it stops. that is basically how the radiation works on the human body. hope this helps, ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." oh, geez, curtis..........can you get any more descriptive??? I, personally don't care (I had LRP in March), but those anticipating or concidering RT might be a bit "antsy" about their decision (RE: thread re: Surgery vs Radiation). Perhaps a little less "color commentary"? respectfully, jh > hi ol - the time delay is correct. another way of explaining this is > look at a microwave with a piece of meat in it. you set the timer to 4 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." JH, I think it was an appropriate description of the time delay, we're all big boys with essentially the same problem and sometimes a little humor goes a long way, please try not to be offended by a little tongue in cheek humor. By the way, my pop-corn gets pop'd on June 2 ;-)) Tom > oh, geez, curtis..........can you get any more descriptive??? I, > personally don't care (I had LRP in March), but those anticipating or [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is > > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." I understand that the post was "appropriate"....HOWEVER, don't y'all read the post as I did??? Here I am...standin' in front o' the grill....family waitin' fer them famous family recipe ribs....just searing to perfection...........the sizzle....the sound.... Can I be more descriptive? That's what I read... If I were to be anticipating RP (and I'm not too sure I won't as an adjuvant therapy), I certantly would'nt want to think of the procedure as a sizzling "piece o' meat" inside o' ya....way too much (colorful) information. respectfully, jh > JH, > I think it was an appropriate description of the time delay, we're all big [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > > "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is > > > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." JH, I understand, jes turn em when ther reddy, not too much sauce;-)) Tom > I understand that the post was "appropriate"....HOWEVER, don't y'all read > the post as I did??? Here I am...standin' in front o' the grill....family [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > > "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is > > > > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." > I understand that the post was "appropriate"....HOWEVER, don't y'all read > the post as I did??? Here I am...standin' in front o' the grill....family [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > respectfully, > jh Well, then look at it like this. It's a particle accelerator, not a microwave. And it whisks away cancer cells like magic.  SignatureProstate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .27 .37 .75 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .07 .05 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04 > > I understand that the post was "appropriate"....HOWEVER, don't y'all read > > the post as I did??? Here I am...standin' in front o' the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Well, then look at it like this. It's a particle accelerator, not a > microwave. And it whisks away cancer cells like magic. LOL.....have you ever thought of going into politics?? HF Politics? LOL Now *THAT'S* a funny one. I'm too opinionated, and my language would make a sailor turn red from embarrassment. Besides, I'm too lazy to run!!!!! jh > > > I understand that the post was "appropriate"....HOWEVER, don't y'all > read [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > HF > > Well, then look at it like this. It's a particle accelerator, not a > > microwave. And it whisks away cancer cells like magic. > > LOL.....have you ever thought of going into politics?? Sorry....I was kidding Steve......should have taken your post out, grin. But you sound like a red-headed Canadian I know well......lol. Heather > Politics? LOL Now *THAT'S* a funny one. > I'm too opinionated, and my language would make a sailor turn red from [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > > > HF > > > I understand that the post was "appropriate"....HOWEVER, don't y'all > read [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > LOL.....have you ever thought of going into politics?? Can't. I tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I wouldn't survive one press conference. Curtis, That's a good analogy. Tom > hi ol - the time delay is correct. another way of explaining this is > look at a microwave with a piece of meat in it. you set the timer to 4 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." >Subject: Re: Learn something new every day-IMRT >From: PALMER_ENT@webtv.net (c palmer) [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >"Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is >invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." That is a useful analogy for describing that delayed effects occur. At high intensity levels radiation literally cooks flesh- the microwave oven makes radiation with a klystron tube. At lower levels the radiation does its damage by damaging DNA. A chromosome is a string of DNA. Bits of the string that direct the construction of a particular protein are each called "genes". Many genes do nothing useful at all and damage to them does no damage to you. Others are constantly busy and damage to them can kill rapidly. Bone marrow and the cilia in the small intestine are most sensitive. Others come into play only when the cell divides. If those are damaged the resulting cells may not be constructed properly and may not operate properly, so the cell dies. That is the primary source of cancer cell deaths from radiation. Anemia should show up rapidly but nerve damage after a long delay. Some of the damage may be in genes that limit growth rates, and may cause affected cells to become cancerous. thanks danny - you gave an excellent technical explanation for it. i just did the simple version. i hope that anybody who had radiation or is thinking about radiation don't take this the wrong way. it is a fact of life on what danny said. all the facts need to be put on the table, just as all the facts need to be put on the table for surgery, cyrosurgery, or hormones. to help add clarification to what danny is saying, a common compliant when getting radiation is being tired. this is the anemia effect and it affects people differently as they get the treatment, but it still happens. ~ curtis knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." Hmmm, so my guess was right perhaps......and my chiropractor suggested Ron's blood count could be down. We should get the results midweek.....we shall see. But I expect he is slightly anemic. Btw.....he never got very many side effects and he told me one time that he 'knew' things were still working on the prostate.....just a strange feeling he said, no obvious one. Night....Figgs > thanks danny - you gave an excellent technical explanation for it. i > just did the simple version. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > "Many more men die with prostate cancer than of it. Growing old is > invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so." I'd say my hubby had a very long case of being tired. Not super tired just went to bed earlier and weekend naps. Of course any excuse for a weekend nap works in this household! LOL But I never thought about the anemia thing. In fact I think I just might buy him a good multi-vitamin with some iron and have him take it. Might help, won't hurt. And on his next doc visit I'll have them do some extra blood work. (Wish I could give him some of my iron - I have too much and too much is worse than not enough!) My hubby said he could tell that the battle was going on long after all treatments stopped. He's only recently quit complaining about it. Yet, he will still say something is still going on inside. With brachytherapy the prostate dies and what is left is bits of seeds and scar tissue. Bev > Hmmm, so my guess was right perhaps......and my chiropractor suggested Ron's > blood count could be down. We should get the results midweek.....we shall [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Night....Figgs I hadn't thought of it either, Bev. And I was telling our chiropractor that Ron seemed more fatigued than usual.......and that it wasn't really his age. Dr. Dave then told me that radiation often caused anemia and to get his blood count checked. You put it better than I did.......Ron said he was aware that things were still going on in the prostate, but he couldn't describe the feeling. I wonder how long HDR and EBRT keep on tickin?? Best....Heather > I'd say my hubby had a very long case of being tired. Not super tired just > went to bed earlier and weekend naps. Of course any excuse for a weekend nap [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > > > Night....Figgs > I hadn't thought of it either, Bev. And I was telling our chiropractor that > Ron seemed more fatigued than usual.......and that it wasn't really his age. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Best....Heather Hi Heather; My Drs. told me that the EBRT continues to work for 4 to 6 months after treatment is complete. I'm on # 29 of 42 treatments along with Lupron and fatigue wise I'm generally a little more tired than normal, but have an occaisional day when I feel like I've been hit with a Mack truck. Had blood work last week and the white cell count was within limits, but I don't know the exact number. Don't know how much of the fatigue is caused by HDR and how much by EBRT. Current plans are to stay on Lupron for the next 2-3 years so I guess I'll find out. Good thoughts to you both. Age - 69 8/12/02 - PSA 3.7 10/13/03 - PSA 4.69 11/11/03 - PSA 4.8 11/18/03 - Biopsy - 10 cores one core-25% of core-Gleason 4+4=8 all other cores benign tissue 12/10/03 - Consult - Oncologist 12/16/03 - Consult - Radiation Oncologist Treatment Plan - Northeast Ga Cancer Center HT - started 12/17/03 - Eulixen & Lupron (2nd 4 mo Lupron-4/26) 2/10/04 - Started - Flowmax and Megastrol Radiation - IMRT to begin 3/30/04 - 42 treatments Thanks. I didn't really notice it till the good weather got here and he was working on the car. Got kind of *gray around the gills* at times....pure exhaustion I figure. He finished the EBRT at the end of September, so guess the radiation has finished its job. He doesn't go back until August which is a year from the two HDR treatments. Of course it wouldn't be his age.......would it (VBG). Nah!! But he went from all of the treatment stuff to a long cold winter where he didn't do much and we are just noticing it now. I will let you know what his haemoglobin count is. You just take it easy and snooze when you need to.....I am sure that the treatments you are doing are whacking you out. Cheers.....Heather > Hi Heather; > My Drs. told me that the EBRT continues to work for 4 to 6 months after [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > 2/10/04 - Started - Flowmax and Megastrol > Radiation - IMRT to begin 3/30/04 - 42 treatments Promised update regarding the 14day syndrome. Day 14 (Friday, May 28) came and went without much of a problem. I felt drained yesterday though. Don't know how much to attribute to the EBRT. It's been a long two weeks with lots of travel and that alone can be tiring with or without PCa. Today, I feel great. Also, my peeing was going along so well I discontinued my Flomax. Bad idea. Had a very difficult time peeing last night - up all night and a big struggle to get anything going. Started it again this morning after breakfast. I haven't had any problems with the bowels as others have reported in other threads. I feel very fortunate, all in all. Larry "Larry" <llarsen@remove.yahoo.com> wrote in message news:... > Hi Heather, > > Well, on day 14 (5/28) I will be on an airplane from STL to SEA. Non-stop. > So maybe I'll just sleep on the plane and all day - and all weekend. I'll > let you know how it goes. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Day > > 14 after the end of EBRT you may feel really tired.....Ron did......right > on > > the button!! Got better in a day or so. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > > > > > Larry |
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