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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / May 2004

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Steve Kramer - 30 Apr 2004 11:49 GMT
I'm sitting in the patient room, working through some HIPPA paperwork,
thinking about a hell of a lot of stuff I got going on at work (worked 7
a.m. to 9 p.m. yesterday) and the doc comes in and hands me a piece of
paper.  I say, "Oh, that's right!  My PSA."  He looked at me oddly like it
should have been the most important thing in my life.

In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1, .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03

c palmer - 30 Apr 2004 12:43 GMT

doc comes in and hands me a piece of paper. I say, "Oh, that's right!
My PSA." He looked at me oddly like it should have been the most
important thing in my life.

Signature

hey steve - #14  doesn't count because you said after 13 psa testings is
when it stops bothering you.   congratulations on the new low
numbers.....

~ curtis

btw - it doesn't apply to me.  i've only had four psa tests so far......

knowledge is power - growing old is mandatory - growing wise is optional    
"Many more men die with prostate cancer that of it. Growing old is
invariably fatal. Prostate cancer is only sometimes so."

jk - 30 Apr 2004 13:28 GMT
> I'm sitting in the patient room, working through some HIPPA paperwork,
> thinking about a hell of a lot of stuff I got going on at work (worked 7
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.

  Sounds good Stevie.... maybe that retirement will be longer than you
thought?

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

ButtercupsDad@dog.net - 30 Apr 2004 13:48 GMT
Congratulations to the Membership Director for the low PSA!  

That reminds me, I get post-op PSA number two on Monday.  I am more
worried, at the moment at least, about the high blood pressure.  Wish
I could drop 20 pounds.

>I'm sitting in the patient room, working through some HIPPA paperwork,
>thinking about a hell of a lot of stuff I got going on at work (worked 7
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
>In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.
Steve Kramer - 01 May 2004 02:15 GMT
You and I have been linked lately.  I too am worried about my GP.  When I
got the PSA, I also got the blood work up.  My triglycerides are up to 260.
He's going to have a fit.  Total 180 and LDL 95, so that's good.  HDL still
not high enough.  I'll have to drink more beer.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03

> Congratulations to the Membership Director for the low PSA!
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> >
> >In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.
jk - 02 May 2004 03:13 GMT
> Congratulations to the Membership Director for the low PSA!
>
> That reminds me, I get post-op PSA number two on Monday.  I am more
> worried, at the moment at least, about the high blood pressure.  Wish
> I could drop 20 pounds.

 Atkins. Read the book. I lost and kept off 50 lbs for 5 years, cholesterol
down, and am off my BP meds.

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Steve Kramer - 02 May 2004 11:26 GMT
> > Congratulations to the Membership Director for the low PSA!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>   Atkins. Read the book. I lost and kept off 50 lbs for 5 years, cholesterol
> down, and am off my BP meds.

Be careful, however, to follow it to a tee.  went on the diet 6/1999.  Was
in the hospital 10/1999.  In my case, I didn't eat enough in the way of
salads and ended up with Diverticulitis.

Which, btw, caused me to postpone my PSA for 1999 which is why it was 16
when I was finally dx'd.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1, .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04

Leonard Evens - 02 May 2004 15:21 GMT
>>Congratulations to the Membership Director for the low PSA!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>   Atkins. Read the book. I lost and kept off 50 lbs for 5 years, cholesterol
> down, and am off my BP meds.

The crucial thing is keeping the correct balance between input calories
and output calories.  It doesn't really matter how  you go about it.
Some methods work for some people and some for others.  Some people
can't manage whatever they try.

I've eaten a relatively high carbohydrate, low fat diet for many years,
almost the exact opposite of the Atkins diet.  For most of this time I
was slightly overweight, but not so you would notice.  I take Naproxen
regularly because of arthritic problems in my spine, and that has tended
in recent years to raise my blood pressure---approaching the high normal
range and sometimes exceeding it.  But last summer I managed to lose
another 20 lbs, and now my blood pressure is normal. Also, carrying less
weight around may help my back. My cholesterol levels are very low, and
have been for at least 30 years, and I've never needed blood pressure
medication.
Larry - 02 May 2004 16:25 GMT
re:
> The crucial thing is keeping the correct balance between input calories
> and output calories.

I agree wholeheartedly. A year and a half ago I was 211. I joined a health
club, started exercising regularly, modified my diet and dropped my weight
to a low of 186. My exercises include cardio and strength, so I lost
significantly more than 25 lbs of fat given the increase in muscle mass.
Learning I had PCa was the ultimate downer. I was feeling so good about
myself. I liked the way I looked. Now, when I look in the mirror, I see the
scar from the Lymph Node disection and wonder if I'm growing boobs.
Enough self pitty. I'm concentrating hard on keeping up my exercises though
I don't seem to manage the same levels as I did and I'm back to the low
190's.
BTW - my diet modification consisted of eliminating dairy (substituting soy
products) - except for the occasional pizza, eliminating all read meat -
except for the occasional steak reserved for business trips. I went to whole
grain breads and cereals found in the health food section. I also increased
my portions of fruits and vegetables. I totally eliminated greasy fast food
which never played much of a part in my diet anyway - except for the
occasional KFC or Egg McMuffin. They're totally gone now.

Consume fewer caleries than you burn. It really is as simple as that. Get
out and exercise - even if it's just a walk around the block. I'm
backsliding a little now with my weight but I know what the problem is and
intend to keep working at it.

Best of luck in whatever works for you.
Larry
jk - 02 May 2004 21:02 GMT
> >>Congratulations to the Membership Director for the low PSA!
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> have been for at least 30 years, and I've never needed blood pressure
> medication.

   The thing to remember about all this is that people with a weight
problem, usually cannot follow a low calorie and exercise routine. Sure it's
a way to lose weight and stay in shape, but there are other ways that work
as well. There are many skinny guys out there that can eat whatever they
want, and stay thin forever.  Not me. I like to eat huge portions. Eating
low carb, I can eat twice as many calories without gaining weight, because
my body burns fat for fuel, not carbs. Excess carbs are turned into fat
cells, excess dietary fat is excreted by the body. This is a simple fact.
The old calories/weight formulas don't apply universally if you strictly
limit fat producing carbs. There are documented cases of people that ate
4000-5000 daily calories of ONLY meat and fat, (I'm not recommending this),
and lost weight. For myself I eat lots of salads and veggies with my
protein, and nuts. It's been 5 years of a strong heart and great blood work,
so you can't knock success.
Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Joe \(Shaw\) - 04 May 2004 05:56 GMT
I just finished the 2 week "Induction" phase of Atkins.  I worked my way up
to 198 pounds (not 200, not 200, not 200!) since my LRP in October 2001.
Frankly it sounds like hokum to me and doesn't make a heck of a lot of
sense, but I've seen a lot of people do really well on it so I thought I'd
give it a go.

I'd like to get to 175.

After 15 days of Atkins, I am pleased to say that I am now at 179!  That's
19 pounds in 15 days.

Yeah, I know, some of that is water, but not all of it.

My BP is down 10 points, but any weight loss will improve blood pressure.
We'll see how well I can maintain this as I introduce more carbs in the next
few weeks.

> > Congratulations to the Membership Director for the low PSA!
> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>   Atkins. Read the book. I lost and kept off 50 lbs for 5 years, cholesterol
> down, and am off my BP meds.
MH - 04 May 2004 11:30 GMT
Congrats on the weight loss, Joe.  My wife and I both went on Atkins a year
ago..... and lost the weight we wanted.... about 20 lbs for each of us.
Since then, we eat what we want, in small portions.... and occasionally cut
out carbs again for a few days in a row.  We've been able to maintain where
we are.... and not go back up again!  Take care!
MikeH

> I just finished the 2 week "Induction" phase of Atkins.  I worked my way up
> to 198 pounds (not 200, not 200, not 200!) since my LRP in October 2001.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> We'll see how well I can maintain this as I introduce more carbs in the next
> few weeks.
ButtercupsDad@dog.net - 04 May 2004 13:11 GMT
 Joe:
    Is losing that much in so short a time healthy?  I have always
heard to shoot for one or two pounds a week at most.
    Congratulations though on the weight loss and especially the
BP down 10 pts.  I am fighting the blood pressure right now, and
cannot seem to get off any pounds.  Maybe I will look into Atkins
myself.
    Take care.
    Thank you.
David S.

>I just finished the 2 week "Induction" phase of Atkins.  I worked my way up
>to 198 pounds (not 200, not 200, not 200!) since my LRP in October 2001.
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>cholesterol
>> down, and am off my BP meds.
Beverley - 05 May 2004 02:55 GMT
One of the big differences between males and females is the guys can lose
weight easier. It's nothing for a male to lose 25 pounds. For starters Joe
was not *way* overweight. Now balancing the diet to control the weight is
going to be difficult as it will be for anyone.

Why do females have a harder time losing weight? We are supposed to carry
some extra weight . It protects us - well it did a few thousand years ago.
We are the child bearers and our bodies will do everything to protect that
function including holding onto a few extra pounds.
:-(
Bev

>   Joe:
> Is losing that much in so short a time healthy?  I have always
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
> >cholesterol
> >> down, and am off my BP meds.
jk - 05 May 2004 03:47 GMT
> I just finished the 2 week "Induction" phase of Atkins.  I worked my way up
> to 198 pounds (not 200, not 200, not 200!) since my LRP in October 2001.
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> After 15 days of Atkins, I am pleased to say that I am now at 179!  That's
> 19 pounds in 15 days.

   You're funny. You say how much weight you've lost and your BP is down,
but you think it's hokim?  It makes lots of sense to me after 5 years of
doing it. What you may be missing is actually reading the book? I got mine
for a $1 in a used bookstore originally. He explains why it works, and sites
many case histories.
    That quick a weight loss is a danger sign to me, unless you started out
over 300 lbs.   If you're not following the plan, and exercising and
starving yourself, you're heading for a big fall. You need to understand
what your body is doing and eat lots of food. A loss of 2-3 lbs a week,
while always feeling full and satisfied, is the way to really make a
permanent change in your life. The original book is now about 35 years old.
What I love about it, is that I don't need to count calories or be concerned
about portion sizes. If I want a 2 lb steak with buttered mushrooms, and
strawberries and whipped heavy cream for dessert, I have it with no guilt or
effect on my diet.  For those interested check out alt.suport.diet.low-carb
..... read it and post for a few days. Peoples sigs show what they weighed
then and now. Some have lost and kept off 100 lbs over 30 years!

Signature

JK Sinrod
Sinrod Stained Glass Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

Joe \(Shaw\) - 05 May 2004 13:52 GMT
Sorry if I wasn't clear.  By saying it sounds like hokum, all I am saying is
it flies in the face of conventional dietary dogma which would have us all
eating low-fat with lots and lots of fruit and vegetables.

I do have the book ("NEW Diet Revolution") and have read it.  Through the
induction phase I followed it to the letter, except I didn't eat the snacks,
which sounded optional and which I didn't crave.

I lost most of the weight the first week and only 3 or so pounds the second.

I didn't have a huge amount to loose and am now trying to figure out how to
go from Induction through OWL and Pre-Maintenance in 4 - 5 pounds.

Anyway, I this isn't the forum for this.  Thanks for pointing me to the
right one.

JP

> > I just finished the 2 week "Induction" phase of Atkins.  I worked my way
> up
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> ..... read it and post for a few days. Peoples sigs show what they weighed
> then and now. Some have lost and kept off 100 lbs over 30 years!
jk - 05 May 2004 20:57 GMT
> Sorry if I wasn't clear.  By saying it sounds like hokum, all I am saying is
> it flies in the face of conventional dietary dogma which would have us all
> eating low-fat with lots and lots of fruit and vegetables.

  Funny you should say that, with all the various treatments for PCa that
go against the traditional ones. It's simple. The FDA's food pyramid that we
learned in school, was and is terribly wrong.  The only ones left clinging
to the "old dogma" now are the bread and sugar lobbyists, and the threatened
nutritionists. First they said it was unhealthy... then life threatening...
then it didn't have lasting results... then people couldn't stay on it...
finally they attacked poor old Dr Atkins for falling on his head and dieing.
Old ways die hard. Even in the face of success and logic. Just look at the
burned witches of Salem!  Enjoy that NG... really supportive people like
here.

--
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories
Beverley - 06 May 2004 05:34 GMT
In all fairness most of the "witches" were drown. If they held them under
water for a certain length of time and they survived then they had to be
witches. Unfortunately, the poor things drown which meant they weren't
witches.
And the food pyramid you and I learned in school is not the one they are
teaching now. The bottom used to be the meats, etc. not the grains.
Bev

> > Sorry if I wasn't clear.  By saying it sounds like hokum, all I am saying
> is
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Coney Island Memories
> www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories
jk - 06 May 2004 19:35 GMT
> In all fairness most of the "witches" were drown. If they held them under
> water for a certain length of time and they survived then they had to be

  The lucky ones were drowned.... most were burned alive at the stake. Hard
to believe huh?

--
JK Sinrod
Sinrod Studios
www.sinrodstudios.com
Coney Island Memories
www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories
Dave P - 30 Apr 2004 14:27 GMT
Great Steve,

Wishing you many more 0.05's or lower

Dave P.

> I'm sitting in the patient room, working through some HIPPA paperwork,
> thinking about a hell of a lot of stuff I got going on at work (worked 7
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.
dale.j. - 30 Apr 2004 14:31 GMT
> I'm sitting in the patient room, working through some HIPPA paperwork,
> thinking about a hell of a lot of stuff I got going on at work (worked 7
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.

Steve,

Great news.  I'm sure you're clicking your heels.

Dale J.

Signature

Email:  dalej2@mac..com

John Loomis - 01 May 2004 02:54 GMT
Con grads.....Hopefully we continue with that degree.
Funny how prostate cancer people look at life.
PSA to PSA.......hum........
John Loomis, good wishes to you my friend!
> I'm sitting in the patient room, working through some HIPPA paperwork,
> thinking about a hell of a lot of stuff I got going on at work (worked 7
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.
MH - 01 May 2004 03:38 GMT
> In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.

WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's TERRIFIC news, Steve!! Yeah!!

I wish you many, many more just like this!

MikeH :-)
Beverley - 01 May 2004 14:57 GMT
Yippee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 And many many more like that!
((((((((((BIG CYBER HUG )))))))))))))))))
Bev

> I'm sitting in the patient room, working through some HIPPA paperwork,
> thinking about a hell of a lot of stuff I got going on at work (worked 7
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.
Steve Kramer - 02 May 2004 01:42 GMT
Bev, I can almost feel your cyber hugs.  You are one in a million!

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1, .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04

> Yippee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 And many many more like that!
> ((((((((((BIG CYBER HUG )))))))))))))))))
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> >
> > In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.
DanR - 02 May 2004 17:08 GMT
Wishing you many more, that you lose count!
DanR
Alan Meyer - 02 May 2004 19:58 GMT
> In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.

Congratulations Steve.

First thing you've got to do is tack that .05 onto the
end of the PSA line in your signature.  I say, if you've
got it, flaunt it.

Secondly, you might want to have a look at
Steven Strum's book _A Primer on Prostate
Cancer_.  If I remember correctly, Strum says
that patients who make it down to .05 on HT are
unusually sensitive to HT treatment and might
live a long time on it.  IIRC, he has a special
drug program for such patients that he recommends.

Here's hoping that you're one of those guys for
whom HT does wonders.

   Alan
Steve Kramer - 02 May 2004 23:18 GMT
Thanks Alan.  I have his book sitting 11" from my keyboard.  Never got ver
far into it, but you've re-energized my reading interest.  Genesis can wait.
My signature is altered to reflect actual PSAs.

Signature

--
Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .07 .05
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04

> > In any case, it was down to 0.05.  Life is good.
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
>     Alan
 
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