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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / May 2004interesting stats
My uro told me that there are approx 300 urologists in Australia (pop around 20 million) while in the US there are about 18,000 (pop about 293 million). So that means on a per capita basis the US has around 4 times the specialists, no wonder you all (in the USA) advocate getting second opinions! Does this mean an over-supply there or an under-supply here? Just a thought to while away the time while still off work and waiting for the next appointment (May 17 for my re-bore and tune-up). Dave Dec 03 PSA 10.8 Jan 04 Dx PCa T2a Gleason 5 Mar 04 RRP, post op path good, all contained Outlook optimistic Hello Dave! How much does an RP or radiation treatment cost in Australia? that may make you wonder! I do not want to say what my operation cost....It is embarrasing, and yes I am alive! My son going to College went to Germany from America. We cancelled his medical insurance and the school charged us for Overseas medical. when in Spain he got appendicitis... Lucky the boys he was with were smart enough to help him to a hospital. The entire bill from Spain was 1500.00 USA dollars In America we would have been looking at 20,000 easy? (plus) Needless to say the insurance has not paid a penny, and I paid cash for a week stay, surgery, and followup.... I am waiting to get reimbursed, but thought this fit into the conversation! America is way out of wack with medical and insurance, and such.... Australia may be way "under" wack when it comes to the same... What we need is medical for all! And not extravagant, or lack of care. My 2 cents. Johnny in America > My uro told me that there are approx 300 urologists in Australia (pop > around 20 million) while in the US there are about 18,000 (pop about 293 [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Mar 04 RRP, post op path good, all contained > Outlook optimistic >Subject: Re: interesting stats >From: "John Loomis" jloomis@mcn.org [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >Johnny in America >"Dave" What I would like to see is 1.) a comprehensive computer diagnostic routine that anyone could get and use, much larger than the short things in "The American Medical Association Medical Guide" or "Symptoms" as edited by Sigmund Miller, which would indicate a diagosis and treatment and/or suggest other sanndard tests, 2.) standardized medical test centers that did a large variety of standard tests in assembly-line fashion, a very large number of such centers in vicious competition with each other, 3.) standardized factories mass-producing large quantities of a very large variety of generic drugs, all in vicious competition with each other- no prescriptions required, patents awarded to last for ten years starting from first sale, 4.) standardized asssembly-line "procedures" (operations) factories, 5.) no malpractice suits- doctors guilty of "malpractice" go to jail, their victims get no no money or compensation. Patients and their families should be responsible for their own care. Health care is not a right, and neither is a physician's "practice". I -know- that graduate schools deliberately restrict admissions to control supply. I listened in on a Departmental Meeting during a discussion of the quotas suggested by the National Professional Association, at the uinversity where I earned my PhD. Medical costs are high because of A.) third party payers and B.)supply quotas. There are not "too many" physicians, nurses, and medical technicians, anywhere. > 1.) a comprehensive computer diagnostic routine that anyone could get and use, > much larger than the short things in "The American Medical Association Medical > Guide" or "Symptoms" as edited by Sigmund Miller, which would indicate a > diagosis and treatment and/or suggest other sanndard tests, That would surely be nice. Especially if you had a health insurance system that insured against catastrophic health care or maybe something less than catostrophic (broken bone). We should pay for our typical office visits and 'sick' diagnostic visits and typical preventative care tests like PSA exams. If there was a descent set of standards, we could 'decide' whether we wanted to see the doc or research the symptoms. And a pharmacist should be able to prescribe antibiotics based on those symptoms. This was not really a reasonable alternative, but I think it is now. > 5.) no malpractice suits- doctors guilty of "malpractice" go to jail, their > victims get no no money or compensation. Yeah, and it hast to be MALpractice, not just a mistake. Though, I think some compensation, or reimbursement, is warranted. Every doc should guarantee his work. "Sir, I guarantee that you will come out of this operation alive and without a prostate, or you get your money back." That should be sufficient encouragement for most docs and hospitals. But, on the subject of suits, the whole damned system has run gotten out of control. If you have an auto accident, it was an accident. Why should you be sued for amounts that would destroy you? The accident victim lost a car, so you pay for it, and he had medical bills, so you pay for them. He entered the expressway knowing full well that the only thing separating his car and a thousand others was 3-foot lines painted on a concrete surface. It's an accident! So why should I pay for his wife's loss of sex? Or why do I get sued for 5-7 times more than the bills? Speaking of risk, how much risk do you assume when you tell a doctor that you've never met before your high PSA result to cut into your belly and pull a prostate out from your butt? The local police department has been instructed to not refer to "ANY" traffic mishap as an "accident". Someone is always at fault so there is no room for the term "accident". They are to refer to all of them as "wrecks" and there is always someone at fault. An accident means something happened that was out of their control and reaching over to answer the cell phone is not an accident. The Ford Explorer tire blowouts are probably accidents but car to car, no accident. MrBill > > 5.) no malpractice suits- doctors guilty of "malpractice" go to jail, > their [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > you've never met before your high PSA result to cut into your belly and pull > a prostate out from your butt? Definitions are usually state controled (thank-you insurance companies). Ohio, for example, calls them 'crashes'. But, it defines a 'crash' as something that was accidental, i.e., not done on purpose. See www.actar.org/reports.htm. for all the states' accident reports.  SignatureProstate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46 Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 PSA .1 .1 .1 .3 .4 .8 EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47 PSA .3 .2 .2 .2 .3 Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48 HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48 PSA .1, .1 Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04 > The local police department has been instructed to not refer to "ANY" > traffic mishap as an "accident". Someone is always at fault so there [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > you've never met before your high PSA result to cut into your belly and pull > > a prostate out from your butt? ... > 3.) standardized factories mass-producing large quantities of a very large > variety of generic drugs, all in vicious competition with each other- no > prescriptions required, patents awarded to last for ten years starting from > first sale, ... This one is dangerous for a number of reasons: 1. A person could kill himself, or a child or other family member by ordering the wrong drug. It would be very easy to do and would certainly happen often. 2. Drugs that are dangerous to the community could be released like PCP or other drugs that cause agitation and aggression, or intoxicants that make drivers dangerous. 3. Children and incompetents could have an easier time getting drugs that would harm them. 4. Abusive parents would abuse their children by medicating them to make the kids be quiet. 5. People with depressive, addictive, or hypochondriac personalities would hurt themselves with medication. 6. People would overdose themselves with antibiotics, causing epidemics of antibiotic resistant diseases to occur. This has already happened in many places and with many diseases. I'm sure there are more reasons too. We don't allow pilots to fly planes with pilot training and testing. We shouldn't allow people to prescribe drugs without training and testing too. It's just about as dangerous. [What's that you ask? Should we allow people to have guns without training and testing? -- I'll leave that one for another newsgroup.] Alan Hi John, It's a bit difficult for me to answer that as I have (optional) private health insurance which means that I am covered for a lot of the stuff and the hospital sends the bill straight to the insurance company. If I didn't have insurance I could probably have the same surgeon (as he is the only one in the area) in a public hospital and have no out-of-pocket expenses, all covered by our state health cover (called Medicare). The items that I have received bills for so far (and the refunds received) as follows: Booking fee for surgery (!) $400, not covered by anyone (my expense). Surgeon's bill $3215 (discount $500 for early payment, $1206 refund from Medicare, $402 from own insurnace, my out-of-pocket exp $1045) Pre-op Eprex $1852 ($0 from Medicare, $500 from insurance, own exp $1352) TRUS & biopsy $210 ($161 from Medicare, own exp $40) These are the main accounts that I've had. I assume the hosp accommodation, anaesthetist's, and theatre fees etc were covered 100% by my insurer as I've seen no accounts (yet!) I have another night in hosp soon (for cystoscopy and bladder neck insection) and have no idea what that will cost yet. Our cost and refund structures are a bit messy but this should give you an idea. Dave > Hello Dave! > How much does an RP or radiation treatment cost in Australia? [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >>Mar 04 RRP, post op path good, all contained >>Outlook optimistic The controller in the hospital where I work once told me that in the pharmacy there were x number of pharmacists plus x number of pharmacy tech's. That number equaled half the number of beds in the hospital, therefore each pharmacy professional had two patients to take care of (on average). Now the pharmacy is staffed 24/7, so it is not quite as bad as it sounds on the surface, but still.... > My uro told me that there are approx 300 urologists in Australia (pop > around 20 million) while in the US there are about 18,000 (pop about 293 [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Mar 04 RRP, post op path good, all contained > Outlook optimistic > My uro told me that there are approx 300 urologists in Australia (pop > around 20 million) while in the US there are about 18,000 (pop about 293 > million). So that means on a per capita basis the US has around 4 times > the specialists, no wonder you all (in the USA) advocate getting second > opinions! Does this mean an over-supply there or an under-supply here? If my arithmetic is right, your figures mean that there are about 20,000 new cases of prostate cancer each year in Australia. That comes out to about 66 cases per year, per urologist. Not every urologist will want to treat prostate cancer, but if one third do, that would amount to 200 cases per year per urologist. Probably more than one third treat it. Given that urologists also have to treat a variety of other ailments, it seems that 300 urologists might be adequate, but perhaps just barely. > Just a thought to while away the time while still off work and waiting > for the next appointment (May 17 for my re-bore and tune-up). [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Mar 04 RRP, post op path good, all contained > Outlook optimistic I'm not sure on your arithmetic. My research says that approx 10,000 Australian men wil get PC each year, with 2,500 dying from the disease. >> My uro told me that there are approx 300 urologists in Australia (pop >> around 20 million) while in the US there are about 18,000 (pop about [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> Mar 04 RRP, post op path good, all contained >> Outlook optimistic |
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