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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Prostate Cancer / May 2004

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Ext. Radiation, Seeds and Urinary Problems - Ongoing

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olfart - 27 Apr 2004 14:06 GMT
Hi Group;
Have completed 13 of 25 IMRT and urine flow was grinding to a halt. Last
Thursday I had a Cystoscopy and Dilation and reported that I was peeing like
a Race Horse.
Well the horse quit in the backstretch. By Sunday night I was back to the
frequent dribbles. Saw my URO on Monday as it was time for my next 4 mo
Lupron shot. He feels that the renewal of the Lupron in my system I will see
some shrinking of the prostate which should improve my urine flow. I'm going
in today to continue my IMRT treatments ( had to stop last week). I'm taking
a double dose of Advil 4 times a day to help bring the prostate swelling
down too. Also have been on double dose of Flowmax.
My URO says that my urinary problems ( swelling, restrictions, etc) should
be taken care of before I have the seed implant since once the seeds are in
place there is really not much he can do to "open things up" and the seed
implant by itself is going to cause some swelling. He can do a TURP and
Steroids with a few days in the hospital. The RAD ONC doesn't think there
will be any problem finishing IMRT and Seeds with things as they are now. He
feels that steroids can be used to bring down any swelling after the seed
implant.
I'm trying to get as much info as I can from anyone who has been in this
situation since there seems to be a slight difference of opinion between URO
and RAD ONC. Both Drs. have a good track record and I want to trust them
both, however I don't want to get to the "point of no return(seeds)" and
then have severe blockage for the rest of my life. I'm going to get them
both together on the phone later this week to see what can be resolved (they
are in different towns about 20 miles apart)
In the menatime I would appreciate any comments, suggestions, etc from
anyone who might have been in this position.
I have visited PCA websites until I'm blue in the face and there is little
mention of problems in this area.
Thanks, George
Hi Ho Silver - 27 Apr 2004 14:38 GMT
When I had my seeds in 1999, I had virtually no problems with urination;
however, I had no external radiation, so may not be a direct comparison.  I
did take my Flomax for the prescribed period.
Signature

John Hanley
Brachytherapy: October, 1999
98 I-125 Seeds
Age at treatment: 62
Pretreatment PSA:  7.5
Gleason: 3+3 = 6
Most recent PSA: 0.3
<><><><><><><><>
To send return email:
jphanley
 @
    ix.
      netcom.
          com
----------------------------------------

> Hi Group;
> Have completed 13 of 25 IMRT and urine flow was grinding to a halt. Last
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> mention of problems in this area.
> Thanks, George
Alan Meyer - 27 Apr 2004 20:47 GMT
...
> I'm trying to get as much info as I can from anyone who has been in this
> situation since there seems to be a slight difference of opinion between URO
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> mention of problems in this area.
> Thanks, George

George,

I had an HDR brachytherapy, followed by 19 EBRT treatments,
then another brachytherapy, then the final 4 EBRTs.  (The original plan
was to complete all the EBRTs between the two HDRs, but OR scheduling
made this alternative approach more practical.

I had no problems at all until the second brachytherapy.  I woke up from
that, was wheeled up to the hospital room, and had the catheter pulled
out.  Within an hour or so my bladder was full to bursting but I couldn't
get anything out.  It was unlike anything I had ever experienced and was
no fun at all.

They gave me a steroid injection + flowmax.  It alleviated the problem
enough that I was able to urinate - though not well and not completely
emptying the bladder.

I continued the EBRT.  It didn't get better, but it didn't get worse.
Taking
two flowmax a day I was able to leave the hospital and return to work.
At that point I would leave my desk as often as 7-8 times during the day,
and get up at night as many as 7 times to dribble out what I could.

It was inconvenient, but not unbearable.  About 3-4 weeks after the end
of treatment, the problem began to subside.  I went from two flowmax a
day to one, then one every other day.  After about 6 weeks I stopped
taking flowmax.  By about 10-12 weeks the problem was gone and I was
doing about the same as before radiation began.

Here is my free medical advice - worth just what you pay for it:

1. Radiation causes the prostate to swell, clamping down on the urethra.

2. Continued radiation does not necessarily cause it to swell worse
than it was.  Eventually (the theory goes) even with radiation still
continuing (as it does with low dose seeds), the tissue swells only so
much and will eventually adjust and stop swelling.

3. When radiation stops, the swelling does not go down right away,
but it does go down.

If I were you, I would ask about the possibility of self-catheterization.
They could give you the implements you need.  You could do your best
with the flowmax and anti-inflammatories (hopefully just ibuprofen
rather than steroids).  If things got really bad, maybe try a steroid pill.
If that doesn't solve the problem, try the self-catheter.  If you couldn't
get that to work, then run to the emergency room to have them place
the catheter.

The idea is that if you can just keep dribbling, you can get past this
problem without any radical surgical interventions - which always
seem to me to be a last resort.  From everything I've been told, the
problem is always temporary and will resolve itself if you can
dribble long enough to live through it.

Finally, I would be leery of stopping the radiation treatments.  All of
the studies that show radiation works are conducted using specific
protocols with radiation given at specific, regular intervals.  There have
been reports of women with breast cancer interrupting radiation
treatments in order to heal their side effects, and then resuming, and
then finding that the cancer was not completely killed.  The theory
is that you hit the tumor again and again, not giving it too much
chance to recover.

Having said all that, I hate the idea that, facing two experts who
disagree, you might use my totally ignorant opinions to resolve the
difference between them.  But maybe I've given you some ideas
that you can turn into questions when you talk to the doctors
again.

Best of luck,

   Alan
Larry - 28 Apr 2004 03:06 GMT
Hi George,
Sorry you're having such a problem. I had my 12th of 25 today so we're at
about the same place in the process. I will have seed implants June 10th.
I started to have some problem urinating but FloMax fixed the problem so far
<holding my breath>

I wish you well, . . .

Larry

> Hi Group;
> Have completed 13 of 25 IMRT and urine flow was grinding to a halt. Last
> Thursday I had a Cystoscopy and Dilation and reported that I was peeing like
> a Race Horse.
> Well the horse quit in the backstretch. By Sunday night I was back to the
> frequent dribbles.
CDS in TX - 29 Apr 2004 21:31 GMT
I am glad that I chose IMRT (42 trips). Three months after treatment, I have
no problem with erections and ejaculation (the prostate decreases in size
and function gradually).
Only side effects were frequent urination at night and rectal iching due to
an active (irritated) bowel. My dermotologist helped with the skin iching
and slight inflamation.
--CDS in TX
olfart - 29 Apr 2004 21:46 GMT
> I am glad that I chose IMRT (42 trips). Three months after treatment, I have
> no problem with erections and ejaculation (the prostate decreases in size
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> and slight inflamation.
> --CDS in TX

Sounds good. How soon after so they check PSA?
CDS in TX - 02 May 2004 00:20 GMT
PSA checks are every 3 months and meeting with my radiologist-oncologist
every 6 months after the initial 3 month checkup. My doc said a slow decline
in PSA is preferable to a sudden drop. My 3 month PSA was 2.6 after being 8
when I started radiation. My doc was pleased with that number.
--CDS in TX

> > I am glad that I chose IMRT (42 trips). Three months after treatment, I
> have
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> >
> Sounds good. How soon after so they check PSA?
Steve Kramer - 02 May 2004 01:45 GMT
Yessir!  2.6 is very nice after RT.

Signature

Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor
PSA 16 10/17/2000 @ 46
Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c
RRP 12/15/2000
PSA  .1  .1  .1  .3  .4  .8
EBRT 05-07/2002 @ 47
PSA  .3 .2  .2  .2 .3
Erection 05/12/2003 @ 48
HTbegins 07/21/2003 @ 48
PSA  .1, .1
Lupron 7/03, 8/03, 12/03, 4/04

> PSA checks are every 3 months and meeting with my radiologist-oncologist
> every 6 months after the initial 3 month checkup. My doc said a slow decline
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> > >
> > Sounds good. How soon after so they check PSA?
 
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