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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / August 2009

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Found the cause of shortness of breath: Radiation

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Marc Bissonnette - 24 Mar 2009 04:54 GMT
Hey all;

(Quick history: malignant paraganglioma in the right jugular bulb,
surgically removed in Dec '07, with a severance and grafting of the 9th
nerve and stretching of the 11th nerve. 6 weeks helical radiation ended in
May of '08)

Some time ago, I mentioned I was experiencing the occasional shortness of
breath, requiring a "catch my breath" deep breath to make it go away.

Over the last couple of months, the frequency has gone from a couple of
times a week to several times a day.

Last Friday, wifey took me into the hospital because I (mistakenly) thought
I was having a heart attack: Couldn't catch my breath, pain in the chest,
dizziness, rapid heart rate.

Turns out that the radiation beams passed through or near the portion of
the brain stem that controls the timing/frequency of breathing (This from
the ER doctor), making the body need to "catch up" every now and then. Of
course, this needs to be verified with the oncologist, but at least I have
an explanation, now.

Interesting side effect, if somewhat disconcerting.

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Marc Bissonnette
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csm7532@hotmail.com - 24 Mar 2009 15:27 GMT
On Mar 23, 9:54 pm, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>
wrote:
> Hey all;
>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> Largest ISP comparison site across Canada.
> Something to sell ?http://www.pennypinchernewspaper.com

Good to get an explanation, but it still sounds like a disturbing
effect.  I had a visit to ER for apparent heart attack years ago, also
false alarm.  They said most people who go to ER for chest pain,
shortness of breath etc. aren't really having serious heart or lung
problems---it's usually something like a pulled chest muscle.  I
wonder what percentage of the population has had one of these scary
false alarm visits.  OTOH, a nurse friend told me that in a large
percentage of cases (50%?  I can't recall the exact number), the first
symptom of a heart attack is death.
I wonder if there's something you can do to reset your pulmonary
rhythm control, or at least to head off the episodes before they
occur.  If this problem is common enough for the ER doc to mention it,
your onc should have warned you ahead of time.  Anyway, now that you
know the cause, you should breath easier.  Or maybe harder.

---
CSM
Janet Wilder - 24 Mar 2009 23:45 GMT
> Hey all;
>
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> Interesting side effect, if somewhat disconcerting.

Thanks for posting this, Mark.

I have been having small episodes when I feel a little short of breath,
too. The doctor sent me to the cardiologist and I had a stress echo and
everything was fine. In fact, it took them a lot longer than they
expected and they had to speed up the treadmill to my usual 3.7 mph
speed to see anything.

I, too, had radiation to my head for tongue cancer. I'm wondering if my
symptoms can be explained the same way. Other than being short of breath
for no apparent reason every once in a while (much, much less than
daily), I have no other symptoms of cardiac disease.

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Janet Wilder
way-the-heck-south Texas
spelling doesn't count
but cooking does

J - 25 Mar 2009 09:57 GMT
> Hey all;
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> course, this needs to be verified with the oncologist, but at least I have
> an explanation, now.

Did he run tests, Marc?  Sounds like conjecture to me.
if he's right it may be (acquired) central sleep apnea, which I think can be
tested for
(probably overnight would be required).
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003997.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_apnea

I would think they would check for the worst first. The possibility of
recurrence (spread).
While awaiting bookings for tests such as Janet had (for heart) and a sleep
test.
PFT (pulmonary function test) and/or chest x-ray.

Well, good luck. When do you see him next?
J
Marc Bissonnette - 25 Mar 2009 16:26 GMT
>> Hey all;
>>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> Well, good luck. When do you see him next?

Already had tests done for sleep apnea done some time ago because I used to
be quite the snorer - Ironically, since the surgery a year and a half ago,
I don't snore *at all* now, which is a great relief to my wife. Besides,
this is definitely a daytime thing, the sense of lack of oxygen comes and
goes throughout the day. Wifey tells me my sleep is completely normal with
no interruptions.

Next appt with the onc is May 14.

Even though none of my cancer experience or this breathing experience is
smoking related, the trip to the hospital, thinking I was having a heart
attack was the final kick in the teeth for me: Started my Champix
prescription this morning and I have my quit date of April 7 triple cicled
on the calendar. If this shortness of breath thing is a new reality, then
I'm going to give my lungs as much absorption ability as possible.

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Marc Bissonnette
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bobert - 26 Jun 2009 07:00 GMT
> Turns out that the radiation beams passed through or near the portion of
> the brain stem that controls the timing/frequency of breathing (This from
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Interesting side effect, if somewhat disconcerting.

I had whole brain radiation and the shortness of breath took about 2
years to go away.  I measured my recovery by how many armfuls of
firewood I could bring in before pooping out. 3 was the max. To this day
I sometimes have a "hickup" when taking a breath.
Signature

Eccentric is crazy with money.

Bobert
In Central California

Marc Bissonnette - 27 Jun 2009 03:23 GMT
>> Turns out that the radiation beams passed through or near the portion
>> of the brain stem that controls the timing/frequency of breathing
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> firewood I could bring in before pooping out. 3 was the max. To this
> day I sometimes have a "hickup" when taking a breath.

Hey Bobert;

Thanks for posting that - I appreciate knowing what others have gone
through in similar circumstances. The 'catching up' of my breath still
comes and goes - Sometimes once or twice every couple of days, sometimes an
entire day seems to be a struggle to "breathe normally", so to speak. As
the doctor pointed out, though, I'm not feeling week, dizzy or disoriented,
so it's not like it's actually causing a lack of oxygen to the body, it's
just the brain sending the wrong signal.

Since I'm writing:

Got my MRI appointment on the 8th; A second lump has turned up in the right
side of my neck (where they operated before).

Gotta mention this, because it shows there really are some good doctors out
there:

I had three appointments over this thing (lump), where the first two were
just checkups: Went to the doc, he checked me out, chatted and he said
we'll make you another appointment, but it's nothing to worry about, we'll
just watch it for now".

So the third appointment was pretty much the same as the first two, until I
said "You know, the first time a doctor told me it was nothing to worry
about and we'd just watch it, they ended up opening my skull, exposing my
brain, making me deaf in one side, losing nerve function in one side of my
face *and*, to top it all off, it ended up being cancerous, so I hope I'm
not being rude in saying that I'm not overly assured by this".

So Dr Eapen looked at me, smiled and said "You know what ? You're right.
We'll get an MRI scheduled as quickly as we can and we'll look at both your
head and neck and get a definitive answer as to what's happening in there".

Got a call four days later with an MRI scheduled two weeks after that :)

My oncologist rocks :)

I was saying to a good friend the other day that even though 'the big C' is
kinda scary and inconvenient as all hell, at least I look forward to seeing
my doc, just because he's a genuinely good human being :)

Anyway, I'll post again after the MRI. I'm going to bring my son with me
and see if the techs will let him watch: They let my daugther see in my
skull once, so I thought it'd be neat for the little guy to do the same :)

Signature

Marc Bissonnette
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Largest ISP comparison site across Canada.
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turtletrot1 - 27 Jun 2009 12:56 GMT
On Jun 26, 10:23 pm, Marc Bissonnette

"We'll get an MRI scheduled as quickly as we can and we'll look at
both your
head and neck and get a definitive answer as to what's happening in
there".

Got a call four days later with an MRI scheduled two weeks after
that :) "

That time lag is one of the problems we Americans see as
unacceptable.  Has to be a better way for both of us.
Marc Bissonnette - 27 Jun 2009 16:49 GMT
turtletrot1 <turtletrot1@bellsouth.net> leapt off a ten storey building.
This is what they screamed on the way down: news:07d38f14-d078-4b9e-979a-
525dd7ebc669@r16g2000vbn.googlegroups.com:

> On Jun 26, 10:23 pm, Marc Bissonnette
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> That time lag is one of the problems we Americans see as
> unacceptable.  Has to be a better way for both of us.

It's a killer problem on both sides. I was discussing the US vs Canadian
system with an American friend the other day, basically pointing to the
massive bankruptcies US citizens face due to medical bills (#1 cause of
US Bankruptcies: Medical costs) He said that yes, the Canadian system is,
in theory, better than the US one, but it's too late for the United
States to adopt something similar: The population is just too big for
universal health care like we have up here and the cost would be
absolutely astronomical, without making some *massive* cuts in defence
spending and sacrificing a few other pork barrel pet projects, as well.

Consider: In my family (my wife and kids), we face:
Crohn's disease (me)
Cancer (me)
Diabetes - Type I (12 year old daughter)
Angelman Syndrome (10 year old son)

If I was an American, I'd be bankrupt by now. There are hundreds of
stories on the angelman list (a listserv I'm on /admin for AS) where US
insurance companies have found ways to discontinue coverage for families
with AS. The horror stories I've heard of other Americans choosing rent
or medical - As both a Canadian and a human being, it makes me shudder.
(Literally: A few months ago, a colleague on a professional list
confessed to us he was in a massive conundrum: Business had been bad for
him and he was facing a serious medical issue: His choice that month was
rent or the doctor... How does one check credit before checking a pulse
?)

Currently, Canadians are something like the 2nd or 3rd highest taxed
citizens in the world, but at least any of us can walk into a hospital
and be taken care of: Yes, there may indeed be waits, but I'd rather wait
knowing I'll eventually get in, instead of *knowing* I'm going to die
simply because I can't afford basic treatment :(

(And yes, I've heard the stories that there are free clinics in America,
which I've brought up to some American friends when they talk about money
vs medical issues: They're answer: YOU try getting real care at those
free clinics in America then come back and offer them as a viable option)

Signature

Marc Bissonnette
Looking for a new ISP? http://www.canadianisp.com
Largest ISP comparison site across Canada.
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CSM - 29 Jun 2009 15:41 GMT
On Jun 27, 9:49 am, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>
wrote:
> turtletrot1 <turtletr...@bellsouth.net> leapt off a ten storey building.
> This is what they screamed on the way down: news:07d38f14-d078-4b9e-979a-
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
> Largest ISP comparison site across Canada.
> Something to sell ?http://www.pennypinchernewspaper.com

For the properly insured, medical costs aren't nearly as big a
problem.  I spent a couple thousand for my treatment---certainly not
the level of cost that leads to bankruptcy.  You'll hear all kinds of
stats about the number of un- or under-insured in the U.S., but a
*lot* of those are by choice.  People choose to get premium cable TV
and other frivolous things, instead of health insurance.  I hope that
if you were in the States, you'd be the sort of responsible adult who
keeps his family sufficiently insured, and wouldn't be bankrupt.  In
any case, you're right; the system is broken here, as well as there.
I hope the Mass solution turns out to be the answer, but the jury's
still out on that.

As for cutting costs to pay for health care, I'm hardly crying over
*that* prospect.  If the U.S. had to stop invading sovereign nations
that don't pose any immediate threat; had to stop paying crack addicts
to keep having babies; had to cut benefits to one or another kind of
criminal; or even if we couldn't spend trillions "bailing out"
incompetent and corrupt execs, so be it.  We could survive just fine.

---
CSM
Marc Bissonnette - 30 Jun 2009 00:06 GMT
> On Jun 27, 9:49 am, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 55 lines]
>> real care at those free clinics in America then come back and offer
>> them as a viable option)

> For the properly insured, medical costs aren't nearly as big a
> problem.  I spent a couple thousand for my treatment---certainly not
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> if you were in the States, you'd be the sort of responsible adult who
> keeps his family sufficiently insured, and wouldn't be bankrupt.

One would like to think so, but I am self-employed and have had a pre-
existing condition (Crohn's Disease) since childhood. For many Americans
(and Canadians, when considering supplemental insurance), when it's a
choice between the insurance payment or the mortgage or grocery bill, you
can guess which is first to be cut. No point in paying for health
insurance if you starve to death or die from hypothermia after the bank
kicks out out of the house :)

>  In
> any case, you're right; the system is broken here, as well as there.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> criminal; or even if we couldn't spend trillions "bailing out"
> incompetent and corrupt execs, so be it.  We could survive just fine.

With the exception of 'invading nations that pose no threat', it's the
same damned thing up here. Even the 50++ billion deficit (the first
deficit Canada has run in over 12 years) was and is utterly insane and
avoidable.

Sigh. Alas, this is a cancer newsgroup and not a political one, so I'll
be quiet now :)

Signature

Marc Bissonnette
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CSM - 10 Jul 2009 02:01 GMT
On Jun 29, 5:06 pm, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>
wrote:

> > On Jun 27, 9:49 am, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>
> > wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 86 lines]
> With the exception of 'invading nations that pose no threat', it's the
> same damned thing up here.

That's one thing many of us greatly admire about Canada---that it
doesn't go stomping around the world like an overarmed madman.  It's
embarrassing how often the U.S. does this, often against the will of
the citizenry.

> Even the 50++ billion deficit (the first
> deficit Canada has run in over 12 years) was and is utterly insane and
> avoidable.
>
> Sigh. Alas, this is a cancer newsgroup and not a political one, so I'll
> be quiet now :)

No need.  We talk about all kinds of things here.  We cancer patients
need to vent from time to time, and the venting isn't always about the
disease, or the treatment.  You'll also see support posts that have to
do with cats, or cars, or bars, etc.
BTW, I'm sorry for the slow response.  Life has been busy lately, and
I haven't had time for asc, despite my regard for some of its
denizens.

---
CSM
Marc Bissonnette - 13 Jul 2009 09:46 GMT
> On Jun 29, 5:06 pm, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>
> wrote:
>> CSM <csm7...@hotmail.com> leapt off a ten storey building. This is
>> what they screamed on the way
>> down:news:35b0471a-b070-4a3c-8c94-0f987b839a32@n
> 4g2000vba.googlegroups.com:

[snip]
>> > As for cutting costs to pay for health care, I'm hardly crying over
>> > *that* prospect.  If the U.S. had to stop invading sovereign
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> I haven't had time for asc, despite my regard for some of its
> denizens.

No worries; I'm taking it easy for the summer :)

On a completely unrelated, totally off-topic subject: After seven years,
my Hens 'n Chicks have finally bloomed :) Not just little nubby things,
either, but almost a full foot tall stalks with their little yellow
flowers up top. I'm so happy :)

Summer is going nicely, the kids are having fun and I've finally started
up the wood lathe again and started puttering on it :)

One more week and I'll know the MRI results. Here's to thinking happy
thoughts :)

Signature

Marc Bissonnette
Looking for a new ISP? http://www.canadianisp.com
Largest ISP comparison site across Canada.
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CSM - 13 Jul 2009 21:18 GMT
On Jul 13, 2:46 am, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>
wrote:

> > On Jun 29, 5:06 pm, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>
> > wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> either, but almost a full foot tall stalks with their little yellow
> flowers up top. I'm so happy :)

My wife could tell you whether that's par for the course, but I'm not
much good at botany; I'm proud when I can tell what a plant is.

> Summer is going nicely, the kids are having fun and I've finally started
> up the wood lathe again and started puttering on it :)
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Largest ISP comparison site across Canada.
> Something to sell ?http://www.pennypinchernewspaper.com

Happy thoughts indeed.  Be well.

---
CSM
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On Jun 29, 5:06 pm, Marc Bissonnette <dragnet\_@_/internalysis.com>
wrote:
> CSM <csm7...@hotmail.com> leapt off a ten storey building. This is what
> they screamed on the way
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
> With the exception of 'invading nations that pose no threat', it's the
> same damned thing up here.

That's one thing many of us greatly admire about Canada---that it
doesn't go stomping around the world like an overarmed madman.  It's
embarrassing how often the U.S. does this, often against the will of
the citizenry.

> Even the 50++ billion deficit (the first
> deficit Canada has run in over 12 years) was and is utterly insane and
> avoidable.
>
> Sigh. Alas, this is a cancer newsgroup and not a political one, so I'll
> be quiet now :)

No need.  We talk about all kinds of things here.  We cancer patients
need to vent from time to time, and the venting isn't always about the
disease, or the treatment.  You'll also see support posts that have to
do with cats, or cars, or bars, etc.
BTW, I'm sorry for the slow response.  Life has been busy lately, and
I haven't had time for asc, despite my regard for some of its
denizens.

---
CSM
 
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