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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / April 2008

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trials for treatment regimens

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csm7532@hotmail.com - 04 Apr 2008 00:28 GMT
We've seen a lot of posts lately about various non-traditional
treatment regimens, and arguments about efficacy, etc.  Realistically,
how much would it cost, how difficult would it be, how long would it
take, etc. to put such a treatment through the sort of testing
required to determine its validity?  Let's say I had a theory that
keeping small glass spheres in one's shoes 8 hours a day cures stage 3
pancreatic cancer (please don't misinterpret this as meaning I *do*
believe this).  How many people would I have to convince to enter a
trial for this, etc.?  BTW, I have a slogan for this treatment: "I
haven't completely lost my marbles---they're right here in my Nikes!"
Also, what treatment regimens have gone through such a process, that
haven't involved patented drugs?

I know there are some that will attempt to turn this thread into
another pointless flame war, but am hoping cooler heads, with the real
answers, also show up at the table.  To mitigate this somewhat, I'm
posting only to asc, and hope others will follow this lead on this
thread.

---
CSM
Steph - 04 Apr 2008 03:03 GMT
> We've seen a lot of posts lately about various non-traditional
> treatment regimens, and arguments about efficacy, etc.  Realistically,
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> ---
> CSM

A medical statistician would answer the question at the time of trial
design.
But it depends on the magnitude of the effect you expect to see. If your
glass spheres cure all pancreatic cancer patients all the time, you would
need a small number of patients to have the necessary "power".
If, as is usual, any effect is much smaller, you need a much larger number
of patients to get the power
csm7532@hotmail.com - 04 Apr 2008 14:49 GMT
> <csm7...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> If, as is usual, any effect is much smaller, you need a much larger number
> of patients to get the power

That makes sense.  It's never quite as simple as one would hope.  A
25% lower rate of deaths from the cancer within five years than with
the conventional treatment would surely be sufficient to recommend the
therapy---in fact, even keeping up with conventional therapy would be
enough, since the treatment (glasperlencure?) is so inexpensive and
the side effects are so limited (foot bruising, spinal misalignment,
clumsiness, dry mouth, changes in vision, and occasional mild death).
We'd just need enough to prove we didn't just get lucky by choosing
patients that would have done fine with no treatment.  But point
taken.  The various alternative treatments vary considerably in their
claims of cure rate, as well as other aspects.
What about the other part---non-drug alternative therapies that have
been through rigorous testing?  Whether they proved successful or not
(drugs often fail the tests, so it's only fair to expect setbacks), it
would be interesting to read about someone at least going through the
proper steps, rather than just ranting about the global conspiracy.
When I first was diagnosed, and went through the usual layman research
phase, I read/heard/saw a bit about how hard it was to get
angiogenesis inhibitors accepted.  This was certainly a case of heresy
within the cancer drug church, but now it's canon.  This was
fascinating stuff, but I'm guessing it wasn't the only case of
accepted medical beliefs being proven wrong, and the medical community
adjusting to the new information.  This is science, after all, where
true practitioners are always ready to adjust their model, or discard
it entirely when it proves invalid.

---
CSM
MZB - 06 Apr 2008 22:12 GMT
occasional mild death

?????????
Is that like an occassional headache?

Mel

>> <csm7...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
> ---
> CSM
csm7532@hotmail.com - 07 Apr 2008 00:08 GMT
> occasional mild death
>
> ?????????
> Is that like an occassional headache?
>
> Mel

Something like that.  Those drug ads always have a long list of side
effects, and we've been jokingly adding "occasional mild death" to
their lists.  It may have started partly with the Monty Python
description of "Crunchy Frog" candies, for which the frogs are
"lightly killed".  I also like the sleep aids, which usually include
"drowsiness" as a side-effect.  It isn't as funny now that they say
"next-day drowsiness".
 
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