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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / January 2008

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baking soda and salt rinse use after oral surgery ?

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Uncle Sally - 26 Jan 2008 09:10 GMT
Hi Friends,

I've long been using (several times a day) the simple
baking-soda-and-salt-and-water rinse that I first read about here in a
message from Janet Wilder, and which has been posted many times by J. and
others. It's a great thing to help you deal with mucositis and the
side-effects of radiation in the the mouth and oral tissues.

I had oral surgery on Friday, January 18, to remove the last of my teeth
(all the others were removed prior to radiation for SQCC basal tongue
cancer) 10 months ago. Unfortunately the lack of saliva post-radiation, and
whatever else, led the remaining five front teeth to break off one by one,
and then one got infected. The advise of dentist, and oral surgeon, was none
could be "saved" and best to have them all out.

During the surgery the oral surgeon did some work on the jawbone itself
post-removals. I was stitched up with several stitches.

I seemed to recover well from the oral surgery, with only a few days of
severe aching easily controlled by Ibuprofen (I don't like taking opiates
since they cloud my mind).

To my surprise, almost 7 days after the surgery I awoke at 5am to find my
mouth full of blood. The bleeding lasted about fifteen minutes and I
controlled it using gauze and pressure. When I removed the gauze a very
large clot was on the gauze.

Since then I have been trying to analyze why (how) this episode of bleeding
occurred when the wound seemed to be healing fine. The only thing I can
think of are that Thursday night I rinsed a lot with the baking soda and
salt rinse because my throat was so dry. I find that a few minutes of
rinsing/gargling, followed by rinsing/gargling with distilled water,
followed by a cold soda-water beverage in ice, seems to really help my
general feeling of well-being in the throat.

Of course when I rinse, I am being careful not rinse vigorously in the front
part of my mouth where the wound is.

It would seem to me that the episode of bleeding would have occurred near
the time of rinsing, not after several hours of sleep. Of course, the reason
for the bleeding could have been some unconscious movements of the jaw
during sleep.

But I am curious if anyone here know if baking soda in itself has effect on
wound healing, hardened clots over freshly healing tissue, etc.

The "good news" I saw the oral surgeon today (Saturday, Thai time), and she
said the wound is healing well in terms of the gum tissue, but on her
advice, the stitches stay in another week (she has advised me that the bone
healing will take a few months, although I have no clear understanding of
exactly what she did to the jawbone).

Thanks !

best, Uncle Sally
J - 26 Jan 2008 23:49 GMT
> Hi Friends,
>
[quoted text clipped - 51 lines]
>
> best, Uncle Sally

Hello Uncle Sally,
Wikipedia says that ibuprofen has blood thinning effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibuprofen

I suppose the rinsing could have dislodged a clot, but like you, would have
thought the bleeding would have started earlier.  I don't use the salt and
baking soda for dry mouth. I use it for soreness and/or to brush the teeth and
never had trouble with bleeding; -I am a bleeder with the wrong pain killers
(NSAIDS).
I don't think baking soda negatively affects healing.

Would Tylenol (Paracetamol?) hyelp your pain?
Or a scorable tablet of opiate - meaning can be cut in half - sometimes suffices
and less cloudy brain..
J
Janet Wilder - 27 Jan 2008 05:01 GMT
> Hello Uncle Sally,
> Wikipedia says that ibuprofen has blood thinning effect
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Or a scorable tablet of opiate - meaning can be cut in half - sometimes suffices
> and less cloudy brain..

Yep! My thinking exactly. Ibuprofen will thin the blood. Take
acetaminaphin for the pain instead. DH is on warfarin (Coumadin) and he
has been warned about NSAIDS.

I don't think the baking soda did anything bad. I recently had a little
sore on my gum that bled when touched with a Q-Tip. I used some warm
baking soda rinses and it got better rather quickly. Definitely did not
make it bleed more. The sore probably came from a piece of black pepper
that got under the darned denture. UGH!

Uncle Sally, did you do the trays with the fluoride on your teeth every
night? I know its late for you, but for anyone else out there who has
had head and neck rads, please get your dentist or dental oncologist to
make the trays for you. The fluoride gel is now OTC. I don't miss a
night. I also go to the regular dentist for a cleaning every 3 months
and I'm happy to report that the regular dentist,the dental oncologist
and my radiation oncologist were thrilled with the strength and
condition of my teeth.

I am madly rehearsing for the community theater play. I am still amazed
that my diction is good enough for a meaty role in a play even though I
have half a tongue.

Janet

Signature

Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life

Uncle Sally - 27 Jan 2008 07:03 GMT
J. wrote :

"Wikipedia says that ibuprofen has blood thinning effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibuprofen"

Thanks, J., for that link, and your always omni-present empathy. I have
switched over to Para from Ibu, just in case, although I'm down to one or
two a day, not four or five a day as before, and I think I'll discontinue
any ... as of now ... unless the aching starts up again.

"I suppose the rinsing could have dislodged a clot, but like you, would have
thought the bleeding would have started earlier.  I don't use the salt and
baking soda for dry mouth. I use it for soreness and/or to brush the teeth
and
never had trouble with bleeding; -I am a bleeder with the wrong pain killers
(NSAIDS). I don't think baking soda negatively affects healing."

I find that the baking soda and salt rinse seems to really make my mouth and
throat feel all-better, and become less dry, when followed by a distilled
water rinse/gargle, and then followed by drinking distilled water slowly (in
Thailand we do not drink out of the tap). Placebo ?  Habit ? Subjective ?
... maybe. I've also found that drinking an ice-cold Tonic Water soda seems
to help, although I remember (I believe) Janet Wilder commenting she didn't
like those when she had mucositis. I stopped the tonic water after the oral
surgery because it didn't seem wise to me to have some kind of fizzy action
anywhere near the wound.

"Or a scorable tablet of opiate - meaning can be cut in half - sometimes
suffices
and less cloudy brain..."

My brain is already so full of cumulo-nimbii and alto-stratii, that my Ego
can barely see the switch that turns on the auto-pilot to land unless I
write a poem first :)

Janet wrote :

"I don't think the baking soda did anything bad."

Viva la Soda !

"Uncle Sally, did you do the trays with the fluoride on your teeth every
night? I know its late for you"

Didn't do that on the five front teeth they left me with before getting
glow-in-the-dark. Even of those five, three had had crowns and root canal
(bicycle accident, argument with Thai tuk tuk driver) : bad boy once upon a
time. No more teeth problems for me now, only gum and denture problems : all
I can say is at least I don't have the jawbone of an a.s (in my own opinion,
anyway).

"I am madly rehearsing for the community theater play. I am still amazed
that my diction is good enough for a meaty role in a play even though I
have half a tongue."

Congrats, again, Janet, on your role ! I'm an old actor myself (once married
to a lovely lady who was a theater director : sadly, two hysterics don't
make a relationship even though they can make a hell of a dramatic honeymoon
:) Some people I know would be more palatable with half a tongue, since they
already are operating with half a brain, but that's another story, and I
wouldn't cast them in a walk-on.

Whereas : you and J. are my leading ladies !

take care, your friend and admirer, Uncle Sally

"Given the choice between two evils, I'd pick the one I hadn't tried
before." Mae West
J - 27 Jan 2008 11:31 GMT
> I find that the baking soda and salt rinse seems to really make my mouth and
> throat feel all-better, and become less dry, when followed by a distilled
> water rinse/gargle, and then followed by drinking distilled water slowly (in
> Thailand we do not drink out of the tap). Placebo ?  Habit ? Subjective ?
> ... maybe. I've also found that drinking an ice-cold Tonic Water soda seems
> to help,

Yes, but, I was thinking the sale might be satisfying some of your taste buds
and contributing to your lack of appetite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste

How will you know if your new teeth are the right fit, unless you "eat"?
Unless they're just for looks.
Besdes, I don't want you wasting away.
After you've finished your book, we'll get you and others into an "Amazing Race"
(adapted for cancer patients).
Seen that on TV?  You could travel around the world, show people what cancer
patients can do, make new friends, overcome challenges (even tuk tuk drivers),
learn cultures of other countries and maybe even have time to check out
treasures.

Thanks for your post, US. Always interesting

I hope you heal well and soon !
J
Uncle Sally - 29 Jan 2008 19:03 GMT
J. wrote :

"Yes, but, I was thinking the sale might be satisfying some of your taste
buds
and contributing to your lack of appetite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste"

Hi J., I read the article above, thanks, *and read the Wikipedia articles on
taste, salt, and CISPlatin, but couldn't find anything about salt
contributing to lack of appetite. I am only rinsing/gargling for a minute or
two several times a day followed by distilled water rinse/gargle, so I don't
think my salt intake per se is that high. It was interesting that the
side-effects of the collection of poisons I like to refer to as "Satan's
Piss" (CISPlatin, 5-FU, and Taxotere) left me with no appetite, low levels
of nausea (compared to what I read about others), and an overwhelming
sensation that everything, including distilled water, was terribly salty.

"How will you know if your new teeth are the right fit, unless you "eat"?"

A good question : I couldn't eat anything worth a damn when I did have some
lower teeth to anchor the lower plate on, but a large part of that relates
to difficulty swallowing and food sticking on my evidently now mis-shapen
vallecula or other plumbing. I fail to see how anyone with full dentures can
eat almost anything that requires chewing, biting, or tearing.

"Unless they're just for looks."

We rely on "spiritual beauty" these days :) But it is nice to be able to
smile and not show a jack-o-lantern's mouth ! My full upper plate fits very
well, and looks great. I understand the full lower plate will be much more
difficult to keep in place since it can't adhere by surface tension as well
some form of fixative like the upper plate can.

"You could travel around the world"

I did. I live there now.

best, Uncle Sally
 
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