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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / January 2004OT: Regrets about alt-med "treatment"
http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990409davis4.asp Friday, April 09, 1999 (if it's a little disjointed, read the full article) It got to the point that family members couldn't even talk with Patti Davis about breast cancer, a disease that killed her last month at 39. When she was diagnosed 2 1/2 years ago, she opted for alternative medicine, and refused to undergo conventional therapy. Her care included week-long trips to a Mexican clinic that prescribed lifestyle changes ranging from exercise and positive thinking to grass juices and coffee enemas. Family members here in Pittsburgh believed she was killing herself. Eventually, they had to silence their views for fear they would lose Davis not just in death, but in life. According to the newspaper accounts, Toste supported Davis throughout the ordeal, as she adopted a rigorous 13-hour-a-day treatment plan called Gerson Therapy. The therapy - based on a combination of diet, exercise and coffee enemas - is controversial. Doctors in California warned Davis against relying exclusively on the alternative treatments. But the couple held out great faith in the therapies, which were prescribed at the Center for Holistic Life Extension in Tijuana. To support his wife, Toste adopted Davis' diet and at one point they were eating about 15 pounds of carrots per week between them. Family members in Pittsburgh also stressed to Davis that conventional treatments can be effective. Pat Davis thought her example of being diagnosed with breast cancer at 47 and living 22 years after radiation and chemotherapy would have shown her daughter the way to go. But Patti didn't see it that way. In a December newspaper account, Davis said of adding conventional therapy: "I realized I needed to be open to all kinds of treatment." In that article, Davis and Toste said they didn't regret delaying seeking radiation and chemotherapy. "She did whatever she believed was best for her at the time," Toste told the newspaper. Davis talked with her daughter for the last time on a Wednesday, three days before her death on March 20. Her daughter was being cared for at a Tulsa hospital that specializes in combining Western and alternative medicine. She asked if she should visit, but her daughter told her she would be fine and would expect to see her during a future visit to California. Davis said that at one point in the last few months she asked if her daughter had regrets about her treatment decision. "All she said was 'Yes,' " Davis said. "It was too late, and in her heart I think she knew it, but she was confident until the last two days that she was going to make it." Integrative Instead People often die, when using the standard medical treatments for cancer too. So far, I don't know enough about alternative treatments, to have formed opinions yet about each of them. However, I do Not believe that the standard medical therapy only (that is, the doctors' using a few very-expen$ive PHARMA drugs, & ignoring all else), is a good approach to fighting cancer or any other chronic illness. We need doctors who are trained in both PHARMA care, & in complimentary & alternative care, ... who can give us informed opinions, not only about each treatment, but also about combined treatment plans. We need doctors who are extremely well-trained in Integrative Medicine. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > Integrative Instead > > People often die, when using the standard medical treatments for cancer > too. Of course > So far, I don't know enough about alternative treatments, to have formed > opinions yet about each of them. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > else), is a good approach to fighting cancer or any other chronic > illness. There are many drugs, many surgical procedures, many types of radiotherapy and hormone therapy..... > We need doctors who are trained in both PHARMA care, & in complimentary > & alternative care, ... who can give us informed opinions, not only > about each treatment, but also about combined treatment plans. Many of us are > We need doctors who are extremely well-trained in Integrative Medicine. Many of us are. We are also trained to critically judge the evidence and reject what is nonsense. > Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > Integrative Instead > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > & alternative care, ... who can give us informed opinions, not only > about each treatment, but also about combined treatment plans. Part of the problem is, these Quackologists derive about 2/3 of their income from chemo/radiation. Imo, it wouldn't matter if common grass clippings were proven to shrink/dissolve tumors. They wouldn't tell their victims (patients).The downside of profit oriented medicine is that only profitable remedies will be used. In my native Germany there's a wide variety of "alt" remedies used by mainstream practitioners. (what's _mainstream_ depends on the stream you're in) This professor supposedly discovered milk was a major culprit in her b/cancer. http://www.rense.com/general35/av.htm My homie, Dr. Budwig, tried a different approach. Instead of attacking the tumor, she cleaned up the terrain, by giving an oil change. http://www.cancure.org/budwig_diet.htm A couple yrs ago, I followed with interest the postings of a Webtv lady from my former neighborhood in Milwaukee. (she was so naive, she had her home phone & street addy on her sig!) Amazing, how an uneducated layperson can discover what makes her cancer grow, & shrink. Colorectal, I think she had. She did a modified version of the Gerson remedy, w/out the enemas. When she "disappeared" from the boards, I thot she'd failed......months later I saw her in a Politics group...very much alive & well! (she'd graduated to a computer & AOL. ------------------------------ > Colorectal, I think she had. Anecdotal doesn't cut it here. Stage, type, surgery (some cancers are removed during investigation)..my Dad's was. J > Part of the problem is, these Quackologists derive about 2/3 of their > income from chemo/radiation. Imo, it wouldn't matter if common grass [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > there's a wide variety of "alt" remedies used by mainstream > practitioners. (what's _mainstream_ depends on the stream you're in) http://tinyurl.com/23p9y Unconventional Therapies - Evaluating Alternative / Complementary Therapy Information http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/PPI/UnconventionalTherapies/default.htm > Integrative Instead > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Susan, Su_Texas my opinions Just one more :-) http://www.ralphmoss.com/rwmspeech1.html <snipped> On a recent trip to Germany I was astonished to see the scope and freedom with which many progressive oncologists treat cancer. They use a combination of the conventional approaches with such things as tumor vaccines; mistletoe therapy; local, regional and whole-body hyperthermia; thymus and other organ extracts; fever therapy; orthomolecular and antioxidant therapies; psychoneuroimmunology; music and art therapy; sports and physical therapy; and many, many others. Their government not only allows such approaches, but encourage and pay for them as well. It is astonishing that the average American oncologist knows little or nothing about any of these approaches. The FDA has done everything in its power to block their development over here. The NCI has not seriously examined a single one of these. Our war on cancer has fallen woefully behind developments in other parts of the world, not just Germany but Japan, China, and many other countries as well. The approach of the war on cancer has been relentlessly that of chemotherapy. Reliable estimates put the sales of cancer therapeutics at over $12.3 billion this year. Most of that is controlled by American firms. And so it has been a big business success story, with double-digit growth rates every year for over a decade. But it has done little for the cancer patient. The FDA has approved approximately 40 drugs for the treatment of cancer. But it has never approved a non-toxic agent or one that was not patented by a major pharmaceutical company. The approved drugs are all toxic and many of them cause second cancers in those who are lucky enough to survive the treatment. And the NCI, FDA, and comprehensive cancer centers are tied by a thousand strings to the multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry. Recently, a top FDA official went to work for Elan Pharmaceuticals. But this is nothing new. Two past directors of the FDA became drug company officials, as did Dr. Klausner's predecessor at the NCI. It is a time-honored tradition, the "revolving door." <snipped> > It is astonishing that the average American oncologist knows little or > nothing about any of these approaches. http://www.plwc.org/plwc/Shared/plwc_ArticleViewPrint/1,1890,30480,00.html > The FDA has done everything in > its power to block their development over here. The NCI has not > seriously examined a single one of these. http://cis.nci.nih.gov/fact/9_14.htm http://nccam.nih.gov/news/newsletter/ http://nccam.nih.gov/health/ > http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990409davis4.asp Friday, > April 09, 1999 [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > heart I think she knew it, but she was confident until the last two > days that she was going to make it." I am so sorry for another cancer death. However, to blame alternative treatment for this is a little far-fetched. A very good friend died only three days ago from breast cancer that had spread to her lymph system. She had radiation/surgery/chemo during the first six-months of her illness and it seemed to work. And then it came back with a vengence. Poor thing. Her immune system had been destroyed and she had no hope. Marc > I am so sorry for another cancer death. However, to blame alternative > treatment for this is a little far-fetched. A very good friend died [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Marc Your point being? The cancer killed her, "immune system destruction" by treatment. If anything damages the immune system it's a serious illness like cancer....... > > I am so sorry for another cancer death. However, to blame alternative > > treatment for this is a little far-fetched. A very good friend died [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The cancer killed her, "immune system destruction" by treatment. If anything > damages the immune system it's a serious illness like cancer....... My point being; the cancer killed the lady using alternative therapy after two and one half years while the chemo/radiation/surgery lady lasted less than one year.... > > > I am so sorry for another cancer death. However, to blame alternative > > > treatment for this is a little far-fetched. A very good friend died [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > after two and one half years while the chemo/radiation/surgery lady > lasted less than one year.... And you think that's meaningful information? Don't you think the 85% of my larynx cancer patients who are cured by radiotherapy might have done worse with "alternative therapy" instaed? Or are you completely out to lunch? > > "Steph" <steph@vancouver.island> wrote in message > news:<4TrLb.32942$ts4.6816@pd7tw3no>... [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > radiotherapy might have done worse with "alternative therapy" instaed? > Or are you completely out to lunch? Could you give us your statistics for breast cancer with your treatments? Or for a glioblastoma multiforme? I am not against conventional treatments per se, I am only doing what seems logical considering what the stistical facts are. > > > "Steph" <steph@vancouver.island> wrote in message > > news:<4TrLb.32942$ts4.6816@pd7tw3no>... [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Could you give us your statistics for breast cancer with your treatments? > Or for a glioblastoma multiforme? Breast cancer is an entirely different disease, btu there are several large clinical trials showing that both chemotherapy and radiotherapy improve survival and local control in patients with high-risk breast cancer. And although there is no curative treatment for GBM, there is very good evidence that radiotherapy prolongs survival. > I am not against conventional treatments per se, I am only doing what seems > logical considering what the stistical facts are. How can it be logical to dismiss things for which there is good evidence, whilst being prepared to substitute things for which there is no good rvidence? > > I am so sorry for another cancer death. However, to blame alternative > > treatment for this is a little far-fetched. A very good friend died [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The cancer killed her, "immune system destruction" by treatment. If anything > damages the immune system it's a serious illness like cancer....... You must be reading the wrong literature. Broadcast Transcript PBS Air date: February 27, 2001 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2805cancer.html <snip> NARRATOR: Today, treating cancer often involves extreme measures and some of the most poisonous substances known. DON INGBER (Children's Hospital/Harvard Medical School): Conventional cancer drugs, most of which are still derivatives of, basically, the mustard gases used in warfare in World War I and are really toxic to any cell, have the known side effects of you losing your hair, losing your immune response, affecting your intestinal tract. > NARRATOR: Today, treating cancer often involves extreme measures and > some of the most poisonous substances known. see Steph's Questions to Ask it's in the Google archives many, many times J > > > I am so sorry for another cancer death. However, to blame alternative > > > treatment for this is a little far-fetched. A very good friend died [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > PBS Air date: February 27, 2001 > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2805cancer.html I don't get most of my medical information off PBS...... > > http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990409davis4.asp Friday, > > April 09, 1999 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > heart I think she knew it, but she was confident until the last two > > days that she was going to make it." The lady above was young, could tolerate the side effects of chemo and obviously did not have an aggressive type of breast cancer, or she'd have been dead within approximately one year. There's another that Lisa knows who was given 6 months and 7 years later, is still alive after chemo. She was riddled with cancer that began in her breast. Did she have quality of life? Apparently, else she'd have stopped the treatment. Now she's in remission. > I am so sorry for another cancer death. However, to blame alternative > treatment for this is a little far-fetched. A very good friend died > only three days ago from breast cancer that had spread to her lymph > system. She had radiation/surgery/chemo during the first six-months of > her illness and it seemed to work. And then it came back with a > vengence. Every cancer/person is different. And that's the issue I have with you Marc. You went to the house design newsgroup with an obvious chip on your shoulder. If that was due to depression (for any reason), then get some medication for yourself. As best I can tell, you did your own research, then read here for a while and came in here also with a chip on your shoulder. If you've unduly influenced your wife to not try, then I'm mad as h*ll at you. I don't recall you saying there was a biopsy. I have read where some GBM's were actually oliog (I forget the spelling, but the type Curly had). As best I can tell your wife is fairly young. Are you afraid you can't deal with her side effects? that it will be a nuisance factor for you? Why isn't it possible for her to try and if it's not "working" (shrinking the tumour) and/or the side effects cannot be controlled, then just give up. Why give up so easily? Are you both quitters? (I'm the first one to tell older patients to think about it very carefully..they've had their careers, they've had their families, they've "lived" and some of them have other health conditions). I'd like to hear directly from your wife what treatments were offered by her oncologist and why she decided not to try them. She may have misunderstood at the first meeting, she may be unduly scared of trying or she may be doing what she is doing to please you or make your life easier. I'd like to see her go back to the oncologist and have (s)he run it by her again. And tell us from her own mouth, what the choices are, the location and size of the tumour, so I know you aren't controlling her non-action. and why isn't she posting here Marc, if she's doing so well? Do you control the computer and the mouse? J - frustrated with you. > > > http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990409davis4.asp Friday, > > > April 09, 1999 [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > computer and the mouse? > J - frustrated with you. J/Steph Don't be too hard on Marc. His wife Jane has a GBM and in their opinion they are doing what they feel best to deal with it. Jane was given a prognosis of 3 weeks, she has out-lived that and at the end of the day that is what is important, not the means that has allowed her to do so. I don't stand in the corner for alternative treatment by any means (we gave "Brian" all that conventional had got) but if a form of treatment (when the outlook is so bleak anyway) offers some form of hope, surely that can only be a positive thing. I don't speak from any form of medical opinion, purely from an emotional one - having been there myself and therefore having some understanding of exactly what Marc and Jane are going through. Alayne > Don't be too hard on Marc. His wife Jane has a GBM and in their opinion > they are doing what they feel best to deal with it. Jane was given a > prognosis of 3 weeks, Something's wrong with that Alayne. Nobody can give that narrow of a prognosis. So either they've misunderstood or they were told that to "scare" them into treatment. Or Jane's dying now, in which case, whatever they do or don't do, won't make any difference. IMO J > Don't be too hard on Marc. His wife Jane has a GBM and in their opinion > they are doing what they feel best to deal with it. Jane was given a > prognosis of 3 weeks, she has out-lived that and at the end of the day that > is what is important, not the means that has allowed her to do so. Trying this another way. What if they were right and she has outlived her prognosis but would have outlived it by longer with chemo, worth it (or not)? from yours and Tony's experiences. J > > Don't be too hard on Marc. His wife Jane has a GBM and in their opinion > > they are doing what they feel best to deal with it. Jane was given a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > experiences. > J Hard one to answer J!! I sometimes "dwell" on the thought that would Tony have been "better off" not going through Radiotherapy, knowing that at the end of the treatment we were given "sorry, don't know how to tell you this but it hasn't worked"? The number of hours that he spent up at the hospital in clinics and waiting for transport. How do I know that some of his symptoms were not due more to radiotherapy than to tumour. I don't. All that I do know is that we were far more positive by doing "something", rather than just sitting back and accepting. Pyscologically facing the "grim reaper" in my opinion, is the hardest thing about facing cancer. People will "try anything" when they are fighting for their life. Tony once read that eating cauliflower and broccoli had "cancer fighting properties", inanely, he tried it - by the bucket load (not pleasant to live with!!) and yet we both had our feet quite firmly planted on the ground. He also wanted to "operate himself", insane as it sounds. It is so hard to accept that you have your life in other people's hands, with no control over the situation whatsoever. I certainly don't advocate alternative courses of action, but from an emotional aspect, I do see where people are coming from. Alayne - pondering (!!) > "J" <GulfCoast@example.net> wrote in message > > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > not going through Radiotherapy, knowing that at the end of the treatment we > were given "sorry, don't know how to tell you this but it hasn't worked"? Aren't these hard to thrash out? Definition of "hasn't worked"? No cure, no shrinkage? make it go away? but how do we know that the radiotherapy (or chemo if applicable) doesn't/didn't stop it from growing more, which could be life-shortening.. Operate himself, I can sure understand just wanting the danged thing out and wanting to do it oneself, because when getting close to one area, could tell a person when to stop, whereas under anesthetic, I don't think if they can totally tell until afterwards how much of the brain they've affected (like speech, mobility eyesight, hearing etc). Seriously though I'm glad he didn't try. Many years ago, Mom was shaking her head ..heard on the news that a man in UK drilled a hole in his head, trying to stop pain, I think. Little did she know that years later, she'd be saying "I'm out of my mind from the pain".. cauliflower and broccoli ? did it help with your fuel bill? J > > "J" <GulfCoast@example.net> wrote in message > > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > cauliflower and broccoli ? did it help with your fuel bill? > J Definition of "hasn't worked": We were told that radiotherapy would offer no cure, HOWEVER, we were informed that it was the best available form of treatment and a best case scenario would be blitzing it down to the size of a pea. Everyone in the radiotherapy dept. boyed Tony along into believing that it was the best thing since sliced bread, you therefore believe and strongly so, that they were indeed going to blitz it. You combine this, okay in hindsight with innocence, that they would not be spending ?30K on this form of treatment if it was not going to do the trick. So therefore we understood "hasn't worked" to mean no shrinkage (also backed up by CT scans) and therefore not done what we told would be expected. The trouble is, you truly believe in the opinions of medical people, they are the people that know what they are talking about and you are the ignorant ones. Unfortunately now that I am no longer quite so ignorant I realise that a lot is based on mere opinion. I have lost so much "faith" in the medical profession (not necessarily talking about radiotherapy here), okay that is more down to my local GP than anyone else, but it will always leave me with questions that there is no way I can find the answers to. Boy, am I glad he didn't operate too!! Considering that his comprehension was the first thing to go - he could have ended up removing virtually anything!! Combine cauliflower/broccoli and chemo. pills and boy what a rally bog you have!!! Didn't save on fuel bills, just increased the air freshner!! A. > > > "J" <GulfCoast@example.net> wrote in message > > > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > okay in hindsight with innocence, that they would not be spending £30K on > this form of treatment if it was not going to do the trick. for his treatment ? or the cost of the equipment? I rather doubt they'd have tried if there had been no hope of. (not in UK) I'm surprised Steph hasn't commented. (or did he, way back when, if you remember?) > So therefore we understood "hasn't worked" to mean no shrinkage (also backed > up by CT scans) and therefore not done what we told would be expected. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > was the first thing to go - he could have ended up removing virtually > anything!! This is so hard by newsgroup. You mean after he started treatments (or before)? (for the comprehension problems). Are you now thinking he may have survived the same length of time but with better quality of life without any treatments? I have something about longer term survivals (I'll find it and post it, but then it might make you feel worse, so we're all kind of in between a "rock and a hard place" about discussing these for a number of reasons), but it's Canadian, (and rare/r) and wondering if the quality of rad onc'ing is better in Canada...since I believe it's here that the technology started (or came out of). I'll post it later, but now marc and Steph seem to be at a stand-off, nobody's replying to each other (nor marc answering the question I asked him), except you and me. J > > <snipped some> > > Definition of "hasn't worked": We were told that radiotherapy would offer [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > strongly so, that they were indeed going to blitz it. You combine this, > > okay in hindsight with innocence, that they would not be spending ?30K on > > this form of treatment if it was not going to do the trick. > > for his treatment ? or the cost of the equipment? - He was told it cost ?1K a hit!! That is where his joke about having a more expensive hair cut than David Beckham came from when his hair fell out in patches - something he was very proud of!! > I rather doubt they'd have tried if there had been no hope of. (not in UK) > I'm surprised Steph hasn't commented. (or did he, way back when, if you > remember?) Can't recall if Steph commented or not - seems a very long time ago now. > > So therefore we understood "hasn't worked" to mean no shrinkage (also backed > > up by CT scans) and therefore not done what we told would be expected. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > was the first thing to go - he could have ended up removing virtually > > anything!! > This is so hard by newsgroup. You mean after he started treatments (or before)? > (for the comprehension problems). Comprehension went as soon as radiotherapy started. > Are you now thinking he may have survived the same length of time but with > better quality of life without any treatments? No, but it makes me wonder if we "wasted" his time with all the time spent at the hospital but that comes from the "emotional" part of me. The "realistic" part of me knows that there was no option but to go ahead with treatment. We were not going to just sit back and let it happen without putting up a fight. We were aghast when his local GP (who still deserves a smack) told us that some people opt for no treatment at all, Tony had a wife and two kids to live for. But I still, and always will, question my ignorance about not pursuing any other options, about letting other people control the situation. But my defence to myself (and to Tony) is that we felt very much out in the "wilderness" and I simply did not know on which door I should be knocking. I have no gripe with the medics/treatment (hell, I work for the NHS myself), I probably have more of a gripe with myself for whole-heartedly believing and trusting my local GP (who said he had experience with 5 GBMs before) and not kicking up more of a fuss earlier when he so obviously didn't have a clue. I wouldn't let a cowboy fix my bike, so why did I my husband!! I understand myself in that I know perfectly well that there never will be an answer to my own questions. It is like reading a school report "could have done better". We all make choices in life and it is only when/if those choices fail us that we regret them. > I have something about longer term survivals (I'll find it and post it, but then > it might make you feel worse, so we're all kind of in between a "rock and a hard [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Yes, just read all that you have just posted links to - cheers bud.! I replied/supported Marc's response because I truly emphathise with the situation that he is in - having bought the t-shirt for that one myself. Cheers & Hugs J Alayne > > > <snipped some> > > > Definition of "hasn't worked": We were told that radiotherapy would [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Comprehension went as soon as radiotherapy started. Though not necessarily because of it. Almost certainly not, in fact. > > Are you now thinking he may have survived the same length of time but with > > better quality of life without any treatments? [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Alayne > > > > "J" <GulfCoast@example.net> wrote in message > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > strongly so, that they were indeed going to blitz it. You combine this, > > okay in hindsight with innocence, that they would not be spending ?30K on > > this form of treatment if it was not going to do the trick. > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > and me. > J UK radiotherapy is as good as anywhere. it's also very cost effective, but it's never done because of certainty it will "do the trick"! It's done because there is a realistic chance it will do the trick. Whatever the trick happens to be in that particular situation. > > > > > "J" <GulfCoast@example.net> wrote in message > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > My bone of contention is more with myself than anyone else. My point started out in connection with Marc - I felt that he was jumped on for their choice of treatment. At the end of the day the prognosis for a GBM is incredibly poor so therefore how can he be criticized for their choice, if in the meantime Jane's quality of life has improved considerably. I am in touch with Marc outside of this NG so am probably more empathetic towards him knowing more of their background. Alayne > "Steph" <steph@vancouver.island> wrote in message > > UK radiotherapy is as good as anywhere. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > GBM is incredibly poor so therefore how can he be criticized for their > choice, if in the meantime Jane's quality of life has improved considerably. Well, that's fine with me, as long as nobody insults our intelligence by trying to claim that what they are doing is somehow treating the cancer/tumours. J > > > > > > "J" <GulfCoast@example.net> wrote in message > > > > > > > [quoted text clipped - 106 lines] > > Alayne It is certainly very poor - but better on average with radiotherapy than without > > > http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990409davis4.asp Friday, > > > April 09, 1999 [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] > computer and the mouse? > J - frustrated with you. Hello J I am a curious how you deduce that my asking critical questions on the building group could be due to depression. Frustration, possibly, is the term you are looking for as we were very, very frustrated with the architect designed house we had built a few years back. It looked pretty on paper and it turned out to be awful to live in. We decided to design our new home ourselves and it suits us very nicely. Is being creative due to depression? Jane has never used the computer at all. We have had the latest machines for over twelve years now and she has never even tried to turn one on. Her choice. Do you believe this is because of some male dominance thing, J? My wife was told she had three-weeks to live in October. Today she is alert, going to the beach and swimming, enjoying conversations with friends, and doing ten kilometres on her excercise bike daily. She is very aware of what her choices are and I have never told her what she must do or not do. If you knew her then you perhaps would know how strong willed she is. I am amazed at her inner strength and at the obvious peace within her self, especially at this time in her life. The bioposy involved a risk that she was not willing to take as she was not willing to undergo radiation or chemical treatment. Surgery was not an option. We have a very good friend who had a sister and a niece both die of brain tumors. They were both treated by the conventional way and she describes their treatment and decline with much horror and regret. She has told Jane many times that she is convinced that if her sister and niece had done what Jane is doing then thay would both be alive today. I don't claim this, I only know what she has told us. If you could offer us some positive information on the outcome of radiation/chemical treatment for a glioblastoma mulitforme we would be very grateful to you. marc > If you could offer us some positive information on the outcome of > radiation/chemical treatment for a glioblastoma mulitforme we would be > very grateful to you. Marc, how do you and Jane define positive information? shrinking the tumour, quality of life, extending life or ? I'll try to get to the other issues later. J > > > > http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990409davis4.asp Friday, > > > > April 09, 1999 [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > > marc It is undoubtedly the case that radiotherapy prolongs survival compared to no radiotherapy for patienst with GBM. The trials are all there. > http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990409davis4.asp Friday, April > 09, 1999 [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > <snip> at one point they were > eating about 15 pounds of carrots per week between them. Vitamin Deficiencies and Toxicities http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section1/chapter3/3c.jsp Thumbs down on juicing, excessive carrot diets and enemas to treat cancer. Thumbs down on juicing, excessive arrot diets and coffee enemas to treat anything (except where necessary warm water enemas for constipation) Thumbs up (maybe) for same for about a week, once a year (for an otherwise healthy person), to give the digestive system a break. J-jmo Vitamin Deficiencies and Toxicities http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section1/chapter3/3c.jsp Thumbs down on juicing, excessive carrot diets and enemas to treat cancer. Thumbs down on juicing, excessive arrot diets and coffee enemas to treat anything (except where necessary warm water enemas for constipation) Thumbs up (maybe) for same for about a week, once a year (for an otherwise healthy person), to give the digestive system a break. J-jmo ========= That wasn't a thumbs down to juicing & carrots. It was a thumbs down to taking excessive Vitamin A in supplement form. Carrots contain Beta Carotene (sp?), which the body can convert into Vitamin A, but which isn't toxic. So far, I don't know much about carrots & juicing, but I'd think that an excess of any one food item, might Not be a good idea. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > > http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990409davis4.asp Friday, April > > 09, 1999 [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Thumbs down on juicing, excessive carrot diets and enemas to treat cancer. > Thumbs down on juicing, excessive arrot diets and coffee enemas to treat > anything > (except where necessary warm water enemas for constipation) Seems to me, the last place I'd go for unbiased info would be to a drug site. (would you take your Chevy to the Ford Proving Grounds for evaluation??) Lots of "anecdotal" evidence of ppl curing themselves, in part, with "excessive" juicing. (see the former trauma surgeon, drday.com) > Lots of "anecdotal" evidence of ppl curing themselves, in part, with > "excessive" juicing. <snip> http://tinyurl.com/2gvsr > Seems to me, the last place I'd go for unbiased info would be to a > drug site. > (would you take your Chevy to the Ford Proving Grounds for > evaluation??) I took my Chev to a Ford place, they did a great job on it. J > > > http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990409davis4.asp Friday, April > > > 09, 1999 [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Lots of "anecdotal" evidence of ppl curing themselves, in part, with > "excessive" juicing. (see the former trauma surgeon, drday.com) Who had surgery, chemotherapy and radiotherapy.......... |
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