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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / April 2009How long to live? Stage 4 Colorectal Cancer
81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. Stage IV Colorectal cancer. Tumor is the size of a fist. Doctors describe cancer as 'advanced stage' About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live? thanks > 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. > Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live? Hard to know. What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying? J >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >What's the doctor or the rest of the family or hospice saying? >J That's the problem, the doctors would not commit to an answer. We nearly begged one doctor and he said less than one year which in my opinion is NOT an answer. Do you know where I could find a 'close' answer? > >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. > >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Do you know where I could find a 'close' answer? Is he up and about, eating and does he have a bypass for his waste ? Cancer can sometimes be slower growing in the elderly. Is he bedridden, jaundiced, lost weight, anemic, bleeding, trouble breathing, on oxygen, got a catheter, in serious pain in his abdomen or spine? Is he in hospital in bed ? or at home and active? Steady or having falls? Taking care of himself or too weak and in bed? J - trying to help >> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. >> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >Taking care of himself or too weak and in bed? >J - trying to help This person has a colostomey and is in a nursing home for now. No Pain but is unable to do anything on their own. thanks for helping. > >> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. > >> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > thanks for helping. My uncle lived 6.5 months. He died of pneumonia, not the cancer, and was around the same age as your grandfather. It's hard to know because sometimes their heart's in bad shape, or alzheimer's and they just slip away, or they get a blood clot or bleed. Why do you want to know please? Does the family want to bring him home and have hospice help? I think a letter from the oncologist or the primary care physician saying he's not likely to live 6 months would get him coverage for hospice? and coverage beyond, if he lives longer. ff your're hoping to go see him but can't due to distance and finances, probably best speak with him on the phone, in case you don't get the chance later. I'll watch for your reply. J >> >> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. >> >> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > >I'll watch for your reply. It's grandmother, I didn't mention that to you. She has Emphysema and Congestive heart disease both. Incontinence both areas also, I doubt Hospice would be willing to deal with that? Does this give a better picture? I DO appreciate your help. >>> >> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. >>> >> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > I DO appreciate your help. It varies by where you live & maybe her insurance coverage (medicare?), but in Colorado, hospice services can be delivered in a nursing home, wherever the patient calls home. They can offer services the nursing home does not. They can help the patient prepare for death in many ways. They can provide comforts, medications & help you & the rest of your family deal with issues surrounding losing your grandmother. The nursing home would continue to provide its services. Since hospice services are usually included at no charge, you might benefit financially from her being in hospice care. Her oxygen, for example, may be covered, if it is not already. Here, the guideline is a year or less of expected ramaining life to qualify for hospice, but that can vary too. If I were you, I would check into hospice as an option. The nursing home or her insurance provider are good places to start asking. It's really hard for anyone to predict how long someone will live until death is very close. With her multiple health issues, it's even more complicated. If you live at some distance & are trying to decide when to visit, I would choose soon, or maybe family members want to plan to visit at different times? Figgertoes >>>> >> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. >>>> >> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] > >Figgertoes I had no idea hospice did that much. Thanks >>> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. >>> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > thanks for helping. The nurses in the nursing home should be able to help you. Many nursing homes have pallative teams. Alex >>>> >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. >>>> >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] >homes have pallative teams. >Alex You're saying nurses can tell me how long my grandmother approximately has to live? I thought an oncologist, which is impossible to see apparently, was the person to do this? thanks > You're saying nurses can tell me how long my grandmother approximately > has to live? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > thanks No one can tell how long a person can live. Nurses assess your grandmother on a daily basis, they can tell if she is improving or declining. An oncologist can look at the disease and perform a clinical assessment and give you their opinion. Given the two you can make an educated guess. > 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. > Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > thanks You can't predict for an individual. Sorry if that is inconvenient, but it's true. Median survival in these circumstances is about 6 months. But median survival mean 50% of patients do better, some much better, and 50% do worse, some much worse. >> 81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. >> Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >survival mean 50% of patients do better, some much better, and 50% do worse, >some much worse. In our modern computerized world I guess it's hard to accept we can't predict such things. Perhaps I can explain this to my mother and she might understand it. thanks "I love Cheesewheels" wrote : "About how long does someone in that condition 'likely' have to live?" Dear Cheese-wheel-lover, I and many other people have found this article by Stephen Jay Gould, the famous paleontologist, science writer, historian of science : http://cancerguide.org/median_not_msg.html Very helpful, and comforting, in coming to grips with what the "odds" ... the statistical numbers ... for a given form of cancer mean for ourselves in our struggle with cancer, or for family members, or anyone facing a life-threatening illness. Gould had cancer of the stomach lining at age 41, and had a difficult treatment, but a complete recovery. He wrote the above article "The Median is not the Message" for Discover magazine reflecting his own research into what the statistics for people with stomach lining cancer really "meant." Gould himself died of metastatic lung cancer at only 60 years of age. best, Uncle Sally >81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. >Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >thanks She died Nov 2008, about 12 months after diagnosis of stage 4 advanced colorectal cancer... she was close to her 82nd birthday, she lived a long long time so it was not as bad. My mom struggled with the DNR decision. You'd think it an easy decision on someone so old and so sick but I guess you have to experience it. She didn't get real sick until the last 2-3 weeks and spent the last 6 days of her life in a hospital with an oxygen mask on her 24/7. The last 3 days she never woke and never recognized anyone in the room, she was in and out of coma like state. She kept trying to remove her sheet for some reason too. She also didn't eat about 8 days of time, not even water which was the job of the IV. I also add she smoked heavily for more than 60 years solid. The cigarettes didn't kill her. I even asked the oncologist if smoking was a factor and he said it would have been had she been diagnosed with lung cancer or any cancer in her torso region, and that was not the cause in this cancer he said. I also add people need to stop crying about fearing addiction to pain meds. If someone is hurting let them decide when to stop, not other people or some law. I'd rather be fully addicted to pain meds than suffer hours and hours in pain daily for weeks to months at a time. > >81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. > >Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > people or some law. I'd rather be fully addicted to pain meds than > suffer hours and hours in pain daily for weeks to months at a time. Thanks for stopping by to tell us, dear. I'm comforted in knowing your grandmother was well cared for and did not suffer needlessly. You and your family will be in my thoughts as you adjust to her absence on this earth. Take care, J On Apr 6, 2:06 pm, I LOVE CHEESEWHEELS <cheesewhe...@crazyfactory.cheese> wrote: > >81 year old, pallative [no radiation/chemo]. > >Stage IV Colorectal cancer. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > people or some law. I'd rather be fully addicted to pain meds than > suffer hours and hours in pain daily for weeks to months at a time. On the smoking, I'd been told the opposite. The onc asked me if I smoked (I didn't), and I asked how that would affect colon cancer. The onc said the toxins go throughout the body, and can cause cancer just about anywhere. He said there's a strong statistical link between smoking and increased colon (etc.) cancer rates. I'm not sure how to find out who's right on this. For most cancers, they can only say what *could* have caused it, not what did. Even lung cancer in a heavy smoker could be caused by another factor. On the pain meds, I totally agree. Addiction is certainly a problem, but it's been blown out of proportion, especially for terminal patients. --- CSM On the pain meds, I totally agree. Addiction is certainly a problem, but it's been blown out of proportion, especially for terminal patients. --- This has always baffled me. Who *cares* if the patient-about-to-die becomes an addict in his or her final days? Is there a special (slow) lane at the Pearly Gates for them or something? bj > On the pain meds, I totally agree. Addiction is certainly a problem, > but it's been blown out of proportion, especially for terminal patients. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > or something? > bj As a stage 4 cancer patient, I keep being told to not worry about addiction. However, I'm a "cancer-battling-fool" and fully active when I'm not on the pain meds. I get complacent and then really depressed when I have to take them so I've been avoiding them and just dealing with the pain. If you can grab a back issue of Discover magazine, (not sure which issue) there is an article about medicating terminal cancer patients in their last days with unconventional drugs with more satisfying results. If I ever get to that point, it's something I hope my wife or Dr consider. But I want the full experience with a tie-dye T-shirt and john Lennon glasses! :-) > As a stage 4 cancer patient, I keep being told to not worry about > addiction. However, I'm a "cancer-battling-fool" and fully active when > I'm not on the pain meds. I get complacent and then really depressed > when I have to take them so I've been avoiding them and just dealing > with the pain. And it should be your choice, not a pronouncement that you either must or maynot do thus&such. Even if you make different decisions day-by-day on what you can or want to handle. Even though I'm far from being terminal, I hate it when the medics tell me "this one little <whatever> should be enough" & don't seem to care or understand that *I still hurt* (about whatever is hurting -- post-op orthopedic surgery was the worst I've had so far) when they haven't given me anything like a problem-size dose or even near what my doctor allowed me to take at home on my own. Inching up on pain is just plain....<insert favorite swear word>....& doesn't do that good a job anyways, at least not for me so far. If I were terminal, in addition to *effective* pain control I'd want lots of chocolate goodies rather than tie-die, & no lectures about it being bad for my diabetes! And my favorite classical music rather than Beatles. :-) bj > > As a stage 4 cancer patient, I keep being told to not worry about > > addiction. However, I'm a "cancer-battling-fool" and fully active when [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > :-) > bj Amen. But Beatles? Are you being tortured, by being forced to listen to talentless pop hacks play trite nonsense? Someone should alert the authorities to this outrage! If "they" get away with this, they'll be subjecting patients to Kelly Clarkson, or (dare I say it) Britney Spears next. --- CSM On Apr 12, 11:00 am, "bgl" <bjone...@verizon.net> wrote: > "No Spam" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > :-) > bj Amen. But Beatles? Are you being tortured, by being forced to listen to talentless pop hacks play trite nonsense? Someone should alert the authorities to this outrage! If "they" get away with this, they'll be subjecting patients to Kelly Clarkson, or (dare I say it) Britney Spears next. --- It wasn't easy being a classical music prefer-er in a college dorm in the 60's. All sorts of R&R being played at top volume. No insult to the Beatles or other "good" rock, it just isn't my choice. It worries me :-) just a bit :-) that by the time I'm going into the nursing home I'll be the only one who hasn't blasted my hearing so I'll have to endure the music-I-don't-like being played top volume again. bj > <csm7...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > have to endure the music-I-don't-like being played top volume again. > bj My music taste is eclectic, mainly encompassing classical, rock, and jazz. The Beatles were not "good" rock. They're just one of those groups that to me represent overhyped underskilled trash. After years of producing brain-dead drivel they finally started to get decent, then they broke up. Despite (or because of) their banality, they were incredibly popular---just as are the current crop of bubble-gum pop stars. Of course, insulting the Fad Four also tends to get a bit of screeching denials from the peanut galleries. The same goes for that Tupelo boy. There *is* a rock star named Elvis, but his last name starts with 'C', not 'P'. When music is played in a place where a lot of people other than the controller has to hear it (malls, restaurants, etc.), it should be chosen to be acceptable to everyone in earshot, or not played at all. As for dorms, that's a good place to discover that people will do things that annoy you, and that there's nothing you can reasonably do about it. :) obCancerTalk: there is no credible evidence that playing particular music either causes or cures any form of cancer. However, chemo may cause enough memory loss that you can afterward rediscover old favorites. --- CSM As for dorms, that's a good place to discover that people will do things that annoy you, and that there's nothing you can reasonably do about it. Having been in boarding school by the time I was nine, I learned that *way* too long ago. I sort of grew up knowing that I just had to suffer, or "deal with it" (before that became a saying). :-) obCancerTalk: there is no credible evidence that playing particular music either causes or cures any form of cancer. However, chemo may cause enough memory loss that you can afterward rediscover old favorites. --- I'll remember that if I can remember that. :-) (I haven't had chemo, just radioactive iodine....) OTOH, maybe in my dotage I'll be gaga enough to start enjoying the same noise as everyone else. bj > <csm7...@hotmail.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > noise as everyone else. > bj A few years ago, I got rid of all my records (about 100) and player. I told myself I'd get CDs of all the ones I liked, as well as some that weren't in my collection before. That still hasn't happened, but recently Borders had a clearance sale and I bought some (I'm cheap). I was amazed to hear stuff I hadn't heard in years; it was almost like hearing them for the first time. I also read a book a week or so ago, that I thought I'd not read before. Parts of it seemed vaguely familiar, though, and my wife confirmed that I read it during chemo. All in all, chemo was not a fun experience. Iodine, on the other hand, made me warm all over. I think I just had that for some sort of scan. I hope I'm never dotty enough to enjoy the lowest common denominator. --- CSM |
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