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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / September 2007

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The Problem with British Health care 1/4

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A M L [Manchester England] - 21 Sep 2007 16:27 GMT
The Problem with British Health care 1/4

Cooled Boiled Water (as an example)

Every mother in the United Kingdom is told to feed her baby cooled boiled
water.  Say that to a doctor in continental Europe, and s/he will say
"that's because you're British.  You can use cooled boiled water if you
want, or tap water, or mineral water."

Cooled boiled water is clearly a myth.  Had it any truth, it would be
used in hospitals, nursing homes, hospices and other places for the
infirm.  It isn't.  There is nothing wrong with British water.

British water is not perfect, but close to it.  The number one
contaminant in British water is lead.  Lead retards a child's brain
growth, and is the reason it was removed from British petrol (or
gasoline), years after the Americans banned the sale of new car running
on leaded petroleum spirit.

If you're worried about lead in British water for your baby, the last
thing you would do is boil it.  As lead has a higher boiling point than
water, boiling the water will increase the concentration of lead, from no
detectable parts per million, frankly to no detectable parts per million.  
There is nothing wrong with British water.  Almost all the lead pipes
have gone, and they didn't put much in the water anyway.

The doctor may continue.

British health care leads the world, in cardiology, artificial
reproduction, . . ., just about anything that captures the headlines, but
routine health care in the UK, is stuck in the nineteenth century.  The
British are told that nature knows best.  If nature knew best, we would
not have medicine.

So if you have a cancer you will be told "nothing is wrong," or "you
probably have a virus," until it's too late.  Primary health care, like
dentistry and optical care, are shunned by the British system, yet the
dentist may be the first to notice an oral abnormality and opticians are
the first to notice diabetes.

So long as the British want headlines, the UK will continue to have the
worst health outcomes in the developed world.

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Roger Dewhurst - 21 Sep 2007 21:54 GMT
> The Problem with British Health care 1/4
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> used in hospitals, nursing homes, hospices and other places for the
> infirm.  It isn't.  There is nothing wrong with British water.

There bloody well is.  The chlorine in it.  Chlorine reacts with various
organic compound to form trihalomethanes one of which is the liver
carcinogen chloroform.  Boil your foodstuffs starting with cold chorinated
water and god knows what carcinogens you finish up with.  There was a meat
processing plant near Thames (New Zealand) which had a consignment of meat
rejected by the USA because it was contaminated with chloroform.  The
chloroform was the product of a reaction between the chlorine added to the
water supply and organic compounds from the forested catchment area.

> British water is not perfect, but close to it.  The number one
> contaminant in British water is lead.  Lead retards a child's brain
> growth, and is the reason it was removed from British petrol (or
> gasoline), years after the Americans banned the sale of new car running
> on leaded petroleum spirit.

See above.

Boiling water gets rid of the chlorine.  There is some sense in doing so.

R
A M L [Manchester England] - 22 Sep 2007 01:21 GMT
> Boiling water gets rid of the chlorine.  
> There is some sense in doing so.

Some of it does, as part of making the water safe, and it is removed by
boiling.

No evidence of it being harmful, much less of the benefits being less than
the dis-benefits.

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Roger Dewhurst - 22 Sep 2007 01:53 GMT
>> Boiling water gets rid of the chlorine.
>> There is some sense in doing so.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> No evidence of it being harmful, much less of the benefits being less than
> the dis-benefits.

I have provided the evidence of harm.  Benefits only exist where the society
does not have clean water and where there is a reservoir of enteric disease.
You can make a case for chlorination of water supplies in the third world
and those parts of the world which have had massive inflows of people from
the third world, the UK for example.  Throughout much of New Zealand the
groundwater is of adequate purity, the sewage systems are recent, and there
is no significant reservoir of enteric disease.

R
Redman - 22 Sep 2007 12:30 GMT
> The Problem with British Health care 1/4
>
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> British are told that nature knows best.  If nature knew best, we would
> not have medicine.

Bollox, Mother Nature does know best, the problem you have and it's
worldwide is that Health Care has been taken over by multinational
Pharmaceuticals Corporations, they have taken over the medical schools etc,
Doctors are nothing more than legalised drug dealers.

Redman
A M L [Manchester England] - 24 Sep 2007 01:08 GMT
> Doctors are nothing more than legalised drug dealers.

As x-posted to alt.support.cancer many of who's subscribers lives will be
preserved by doctors prescribing drugs and doctors removed parts of the
insides of their bodies.

10/10 for stupidity.

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Redman - 24 Sep 2007 09:35 GMT
>> Doctors are nothing more than legalised drug dealers.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> 10/10 for stupidity.

Really!! You honestly believe that? You are more stupid than I thought, do a
google for the peoples of the Hunza, Eskimo, Azerbaijan, Karakoram, Masi
Mara etc, these are just a few of the 20 or so native peoples around the
world that do not succumb to Cancer, Diabetes, Heart Disease etc etc etc,
all the disease that afflict Western society, now you have to ask yourself
why? simple, they don't eat processed denatured garbage that we call food.
If these people are subjected to a Western diet over time they also succumb
to all the diseases I have mentioned, it's not f.cking rocket science.

Redman
A M L [Manchester England] - 24 Sep 2007 11:32 GMT
>> 10/10 for stupidity.
>
> Really!! You honestly believe that? You are
> more stupid than I thought,

Kind of you to say.

> do a google for the peoples of the Hunza, Eskimo,
> Azerbaijan, Karakoram, Masi Mara etc, these are just
> a few of the 20 or so native peoples around the world
> that do not succumb to Cancer, Diabetes, Heart Disease
> etc etc etc, all the disease that afflict Western society,

They do not live a long as we do.

Azerbaijan 64;
Hunza, 50 - 60 years, just like any other region of northern Pakistan.
http://biblelife.org/hunza.htm

> [ . . . ] it's not f.cking rocket science.

Far more difficult than rocket science.  Strange that a man of your
calibre does not know how simple rocket science is.

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Redman - 24 Sep 2007 13:34 GMT
>>> 10/10 for stupidity.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Azerbaijan 64;
> Hunza, 50 - 60 years, just like any other region of northern Pakistan.

Death Rides a Slow Bus in Hunza

by Jane Kinderlehrer

How would you like to live in a land where cancer has not yet been invented?
A land where an optometrist discovers to his amazement that everyone has
perfect 20-20 vision? A land where cardiologists cannot find a single trace
of coronary heart disease? How would you like to live in a land where no one
ever gets ulcers, appendicitis or gout? A land where men of 80 and 90 father
children, and there's nothing unusual about men and women enjoying vigorous
life at the age of 100 or 120?

We see a lot of hands going up. Fine. But first, you have to answer a few
more questions before setting out for a place called Hunza, a tiny country
hidden in the mountain passes of northwest Pakistan. Are you willing to live
20,000 feet up in the mountains, almost completely out of touch with the
rest of the world? Are you ready to go outside in every kind of weather to
tend your small mountainside garden, while keeping you ears open for an
impending avalanche? Are you prepared to give up not only every luxury of
civilization, but even reading and writing? We see a lot of hands going
down. But if you want the benefits of the pure air that whips by the icy
cathedrals of the Himalayan Mountains, the pure water that trickles down
from glaciers formed at 25,000 feet, and the mental and spiritual peace that
comes from living in a land where there is no crime, taxes, social striving
or generation gaps, no banks or stores-in fact,-no money- where are you
going to find it outside of Hunza? But don't give up! Not yet, because there
is still one more question to be answered. That is: are you prepared to eat
the kind of food the Hunzas eat? If you are, then you can rightfully expect
to give yourself at least some measure of the super health and resistance to
degenerative disease which the Hunzakuts have enjoyed for 2,000 years.

What kind of exotic, ill-tasting grub do these Hunza people eat, you are
wondering. Strange as it may sound, virtually everything the Hunzakuts eat
is delectable to the western palate, and is readily available in the United
States-at least if you shopping horizons do not begin and end at the
supermarket. Not only is the Hunza diet not exotic, but there's really
nothing terribly mysterious about its health-promoting qualities, Everything
we know about food and health, gathered both from clinical studies and the
observation of scientists who have traveled throughout the world observing
dietary practices and their relationship to health, tells us that it is to
be expected that the Hunza diet will go a long way towards improving the
total health of anyone, anywhere. The Hunza story is only on of the more
dramatic examples of the miraculous health produced by a diet of fresh,
natural unprocessed and unadulterated food.

Redman
Redman - 24 Sep 2007 15:56 GMT
>>>> 10/10 for stupidity.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 61 lines]
>
> Redman

You see it's not rocket science, just don't eat the garbage that you find in
supermarkets, i.e. processed food, tv dinners, call it what you like but
it's completely void of essential vitamins, minerals, enzymes, fats etc that
the body requires, it's really not difficult unless you work for the big
pharma companies

Redman
A M L [Manchester England] - 24 Sep 2007 16:39 GMT
> You see it's not rocket science,

Rocket science is too simple, even for you.

> just don't eat the garbage that you
> find in supermarkets,

I don't.  SosMix.

http://sosmix.broomleigh.com/

> i.e. processed food, tv dinners, call it what you like
> but it's completely void of essential vitamins, minerals,
> enzymes, fats etc that the body requires, it's really not
> difficult unless you work for the big pharma companies

You'll be telling me Northern Pakistani food is packed with "goodness"
next.

I've choked on SosMix.  What will they do in Hunza about that?

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A M L [Manchester England] - 24 Sep 2007 16:33 GMT
> How would you like to live in a land
> where cancer has not yet been invented?

You sound like Jehovah Witnesses.

"People of the Hunza suffer from malnutrition and nutrition deficiencies
just as much as any other remote mountain region in SE Asia. Although the
predominantly Ismaeli faith (branch of Shi-ite muslims) are progressive
and relatively better off than most of their neighbours in nearby
regions, they will all tell any visitor, that their life expectancy is
around 50 - 60 years, just like any other region of northern Pakistan."

http://biblelife.org/hunza.htm

Remember:  if it sounds to be good to true, it is, so keep using British
Telecom Internet, as you do.

Try putting your money where your mouth is.  Why are you here, when you
could be there, helping out Osama Bin La La?  Faith can't move mountains,
but it comes close with sky scrapers.

These myths - lies to some of us - damage vulnerable and some not so
vulnerable people.

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Redman - 24 Sep 2007 20:05 GMT
>> How would you like to live in a land
>> where cancer has not yet been invented?
>
> You sound like Jehovah Witnesses.

For your information I'm an Atheist

Redman
A M L [Manchester England] - 26 Sep 2007 17:09 GMT
"Redman" <redman1977@btinternet.com> wrote in news:4UTJi.210657$gR1.86271
@fe03.news.easynews.com:

> For your information I'm an Atheist

Well praise the Lord, but your medical views are counter evidential, like
theism.

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Steph - 24 Sep 2007 15:58 GMT
>>> Doctors are nothing more than legalised drug dealers.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Redman

I have had several "Eskimo" (Inuit) patients with very nasty cancers. I have
an Azerbaijani on treatment at the moment, too, though I have to admit I
haven't treated any Hunzas.........
Why do loonies perpetrate these myths?
A M L [Manchester England] - 24 Sep 2007 16:24 GMT
> I have had several "Eskimo" (Inuit) patients with very nasty
> cancers. I have an Azerbaijani on treatment at the moment, too,
> though I have to admit I haven't treated any Hunzas.........
> Why do loonies perpetrate these myths?

Off the top of my head:

Medicine is a well paid job for life, and some are jealous;

They want full control of their lives, so they make believe by pretending
medicine is useless;

Something about a lie being half way round the world, while the truth is
putting on its shoes.

Our Prince Charles is only a step or two away from being like that.  He
intends to be King George.  Can't see it somehow.

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Redman - 24 Sep 2007 20:30 GMT
>>>> Doctors are nothing more than legalised drug dealers.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> admit I haven't treated any Hunzas.........
> Why do loonies perpetrate these myths?

Loonies? Myths? wtf, you people are the ones with your fingers in your ears
going la la la I'm not listening, f.cking parasites in the Western Health
system, all you know is how to poison people with synthesised chemicals,
derivatives of mustard gas for cancer treatment etc etc etc, you're a
disgrace but then you really don't know any better, what with the big pharma
companies as your paid employer, telling you which drugs to use etc etc etc,
I despair I really do, the quicker we get away from big corporations running
our so called health care the better, not that I use it anyway.

Redman
Steph - 25 Sep 2007 02:27 GMT
>>>>> Doctors are nothing more than legalised drug dealers.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> Redman

Well, apart from the fact that I don't use chemotherapy at all, and my pay
comes from the government of my province, which gets the money from
taxpayers, I guess you're entitled to your opinion, even though it's
pathetically wrong.
I notice you didn't mention the "Eskimo" patients I've treated? Bit
inconvenient?
Redman - 25 Sep 2007 08:33 GMT
>>>>>> Doctors are nothing more than legalised drug dealers.
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> I notice you didn't mention the "Eskimo" patients I've treated? Bit
> inconvenient?

Can I ask where your Eskimo patient has been living over the last few years?
Yes I conceed that nowadays the Eskimo have been infiltrated by Western
society diets etc BUT if they live completely on their native diet then they
will not succumb to cancer, diabetes, heart disease etc. Please also don't
get me wrong, environmental pollution is now endemic the world over, that's
not helping anyone but you can do things to reduce by a significant factor
your chances of contracting any of these afflictions.

Redman
Steph - 25 Sep 2007 15:54 GMT
>>>>>>> Doctors are nothing more than legalised drug dealers.
>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 44 lines]
> Can I ask where your Eskimo patient has been living over the last few
> years?

Iqaluit

> Yes I conceed that nowadays the Eskimo have been infiltrated by Western
> society diets etc BUT if they live completely on their native diet then
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Redman

Environmental toxins are clearly involved in some cancers. But many of those
toxins are "natural" not man-made. The main reason that cancer is more
common over the years is that the average age of the population in western
countries continues to rise, and by and large, cancer is a disease of the
elderly.

Your simplistic opinions don't help your cause.
Redman - 25 Sep 2007 17:26 GMT
>>>>>>>> Doctors are nothing more than legalised drug dealers.
>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 63 lines]
>
> Your simplistic opinions don't help your cause.

Please explain what you mean by toxins being natural and not man made? The
pollution I am talking about is the man made stuff. Oh and btw you're
talking out of your arse ref cancer being a disease of the elderly, maybe 50
years ago but not nowadays, it strikes at any age and the vast majority of
it is caused by pollution and lack of proper nutrition but then they don't
teach "proper nutrition" in medical schools do they?

Redman
Steph - 26 Sep 2007 03:00 GMT
>>>>>>>>> Doctors are nothing more than legalised drug dealers.
>>>>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 74 lines]
>
> Redman

      Age 0-1 1-4 5-9 10-14 15-19 20-24 25-29
     Rate/100,000 23.66 20.64 11.72 11.36 21.33 32.22 46.88

      Age 30-34 35-39 40-44 45-49 50-54 55-59 60-64
     Rate/100,000 71.51 110.81 178.59 303.44 489.38 780.10 1182.18

      Age 65-69 70-74 75-79 80-84 85+
     Rate/100,000 1590.50 1975.56 2234.14 2342.42 2390.03

These are the rates of cancer per 100,000 Canadians.

If you want to see the UK figures go to
http://info.cancerresearchuk.org/cancerstats/incidence/age/

Isn't it annoying when the facts contradict your fantasy?
Is that your arse I can hear?
Steph - 26 Sep 2007 03:03 GMT
The formatting slipped..........redone here for people who care.

>                           Age 0-1     1-4     5-9 10-14 15-19 20-24 25-29
>      Rate/100,000 23.66 20.64 11.72 11.36 21.33 32.22 46.88
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Isn't it annoying when the facts contradict your fantasy?
> Is that your arse I can hear?
Steph - 26 Sep 2007 03:13 GMT
One more time. Don't you love HTML-txt conversions?

> The formatting slipped..........redone here for people who care.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>> Isn't it annoying when the facts contradict your fantasy?
>> Is that your arse I can hear?

Age        Rate/100,000
0-1            23.66
1-4            20.64
5-9            11.72
10-14        11.36
15-19        21.33
20-24        32.22
25-29        46.88
30-34        71.51
35-39        110.81
40-44        178.59
45-49        303.44
50-54        489.38
55-59        780.10
60-64        1182.18
65-69        1590.50
70-74        1975.56
75-79        2234.14
80-84        2342.42
85+            2390.03

So if you take 100,000 25 year olds, about 47 of them will get cancer in a
year
If you take 100,000 80 year olds, 2342 will get cancer in any year

It's so unfair to use facts against loonies, so please accept my apologies
A M L [Manchester England] - 27 Sep 2007 06:58 GMT
"Redman" <redman1977@btinternet.com> wrote in
news:C17Ji.86140$1o1.39605@fe12.news.easynews.com:

> "A M L [Manchester England]" <abuse@rochdale.gov.welt> wrote in
> message news:Xns99B2A7615C894litigationswanseasoo@204.153.245.17...
[quoted text clipped - 39 lines]
>
> Redman
A M L [Manchester England] - 27 Sep 2007 06:04 GMT
> [ . . . ] poison people with synthesised chemicals,

What is a synthetic chemical?

> derivatives of mustard gas for
> cancer treatment etc etc etc,

You're using a derivative from war developed error correction.

> you're a disgrace [ . . . ].

That's true, but he can't be wrong all the time.

> but then you really don't know any better,

Oh yes he does.

> what with the big pharma companies as your paid employer,

Worse than that, he's been taking orders from Affinity Homes Group.

> telling you which drugs to use etc etc etc,

Or stopping you from taking needed drugs.

> I despair I really do, the quicker we get away
> from big corporations running our so called
> health care the better, not that I use it anyway.

Is this about medicine, or the ownership of the means of production
distribution and exchange?

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Uncle Sally - 25 Sep 2007 03:44 GMT
Steph wrote :

[ in response to geysers of fatuous spew from Redman and AML ]

"Why do loonies perpetrate these myths ?"

Dear Steph,

The best explanation, I read, of the dynamics of the enduring human desire
for construction of myths of a "golden age," or myths of a people living "at
one with nature" "free" from the "diseases of civilisation" was by Rene
Dubos in his 1987 :

Mirage of Health: Utopias, Progress & Biological Change

http://www.amazon.com/Mirage-Health-Utopias-Progress-Biological/dp/0813512603/re
f=sr_1_11/002-1056586-9380053?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1190686486&sr=1-11


That was a very long time ago, when I read that book :)  Later, when I read
Jared Diamond's superb "Guns, Germs, and Steel," I was reminded of Dubos'
book. Other authors useful to me in undrestanding the meta-dynamics of human
perceptions of health and illness include Foucault, E. O. Wilson, Susan
Sontag, Peter Ackroyd (for his stunning historical re-creation of the
ambience of the plague years in London in his masterpiece "London : The
Biography").

As long as there are new things to learn, new ways to challenge what we
assume, I'm a happy camper :) If I had another life, I would go into the
biological sciences, genetics, what you might call the Darwinian renaissance
of evolutionary theory of Wilson, Dawkins, Gould, and such novel thinkers as
Pinker at Harvard attempting to move toward the cognitive from the
biological.

best, Uncle Sally
Steph - 25 Sep 2007 08:34 GMT
> Steph wrote :
>
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
>
> best, Uncle Sally

I'm afraid your erudition would be pearls before swine when it comes to the
loonies.......
A M L [Manchester England] - 29 Sep 2007 21:00 GMT
> I'm afraid your erudition would be pearls before swine
> when it comes to the loonies.......

There you go again.

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J - 29 Sep 2007 21:55 GMT
> > I'm afraid your erudition would be pearls before swine
> > when it comes to the loonies.......
>
> There you go again.

Not only did he crosspost, he set followups to him.
Beware. Watch your To and Groups lines.
J
A M L [Manchester England] - 30 Sep 2007 03:19 GMT
> Not only did he crosspost, he set followups to him.
> Beware. Watch your To and Groups lines.

Do you mind?

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oh really - 25 Sep 2007 17:34 GMT
> The Problem with British Health care 1/4

"Health Care" is a fallacy

It is sickness, disease, injury, pathology care.

Health care is prevention

Hospitals will never be health care because they are in bed with the drug
companies
Prescribed Drugs are slowly killing the world's population.
J - 25 Sep 2007 19:53 GMT
> Hospitals will never be health care because they are in bed with the drug
> companies
> Prescribed Drugs are slowly killing the world's population.

hey, supplement spammer,
there's a Health and wealth seminar in St-Georges de Beauce, tomorrow.
:)
J
 
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