Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / December 2003
new poster --trying to come to terms with my Dad's Renal cancer
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Russell - 27 Dec 2003 15:43 GMT Hi
Just thought I would stop by here to see if people are experiencing the same as me
My Dad (71) has been diagnosed with renal cancer , it took 6 months of hospital visits before they discovered why he was having stomach pains, they have found out now , finally that it is renal cancer that he has probably had it for several years . It has spread to his liver, lungs, bones , ribs.
They won't give him a time scale , says its to unpredictable , but he is in enough pain to need morphine everyday.
Doctor has told me , probably less than a year and maybe only a few months
My Dad seems to be getting very angry with my mother for some reason , as if he is taking out the pain on her , he says he can't help it but feels such rage.
I live in Canada and they are in Wales , although I have been over , he now wants me to stay away and says there will be time for me to come over when he really needs me, this makes me feel unwanted ,
Help confused and worried
Russ
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Emily - 27 Dec 2003 15:50 GMT v6firebird@rogers.com said...
> I live in Canada and they are in Wales , Whereabouts? I'm in southeast Wales if that's any help; my mother's recently had surgery to remove a malignancy from her mouth.
Russell - 27 Dec 2003 16:44 GMT Bridgend
> v6firebird@rogers.com said... > > I live in Canada and they are in Wales , > > Whereabouts? I'm in southeast Wales if that's any help; my mother's > recently had surgery to remove a malignancy from her mouth. Emily - 27 Dec 2003 22:47 GMT v6firebird@rogers.com said...
> > v6firebird@rogers.com said... > > > I live in Canada and they are in Wales , > > > > Whereabouts? I'm in southeast Wales if that's any help; my mother's > > recently had surgery to remove a malignancy from her mouth.
> Bridgend About an hour's drive away from me (Rhondda), and also very near to where my brother in law lives (Pyle). Is there anything we (my husband and I) can do to help? You can email me if you like at cymoedd at care four free dot net, where the 'four' is a figure rather than a word.
Russell - 27 Dec 2003 16:44 GMT bridgend
> v6firebird@rogers.com said... > > I live in Canada and they are in Wales , > > Whereabouts? I'm in southeast Wales if that's any help; my mother's > recently had surgery to remove a malignancy from her mouth. J - 27 Dec 2003 17:15 GMT > Just thought I would stop by here to see if people are experiencing the same > as me [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > wants me to stay away and says there will be time for me to come over when he > really needs me, this makes me feel unwanted, Hello Russell, I'm very sorry about the whole situation. It must be so frustrating you. I don't know that we've had someone with so many organs affected all at once lately.
We've had several in the past 6 months or so, who lived far away from their loved ones with advanced cancer. Unfortunately, we've not heard lately from them here. I was in that position, Mom (in BC) had lung cancer and I wasn't told until about a week before she died.
A time frame is very often difficult. And with kidney cancer, there can be blood loss and high BP problems. Just the bone pain alone sounds excruciating and perhaps partly why he's on the morphine, which makes it doubly difficult to prognosticate, because usually when on morphine, we're liable to be thinking very soon.
Is he not able to have radiation therapy where he is <question> sorry, my keyboard is acting up. Most often, treatment is given on an outpatient basis in a hospital or clinic 5 days a week for several weeks. This schedule helps protect normal tissue by spreading out the total dose of radiation. The reason that I'm asking is that there might be a limit to how much pain control they can give him without actually hastening his death. Is he in palliative care or hospice <question> Is he at home or in hospital <question>
To further complicate mental status, pain and perhaps prognosis, is the possibility of hypercalemia which in of itself can be life-ending. Not to mention stones. Is that being treated, if applicable <question> http://www.cancer.gov/cancerinfo/pdq/supportivecare/hypercalcemia/patient/
My thinking would be to get the pain under control, then see if his attitude towards your mother would improve. Or is that just his nature <question> I know Dad was always hard on Mom, but his "bark was worse than his bite". But when Dad died, it was not from the previous cancer, but an infection perhaps associated with his ostomy. And he was mellowed with us and had no pain.
Once the pain and other issues are sorted out, then we have left a generally grumpy disposition or a need to want to protect you from seeing him suffer or not wanting someone hovering over him or flying back and forth, since his time left with you is really so unpredictable, at this point.
Emily is a very nice lady, but I wouldn't want her walking in on a bad situation. If she lives near, maybe she can talk with your mother by the telephone and keep in touch that way, for you.<question>. Do not post telephone numbers here. I see you e-mail is not munged <question>, so perhaps if possible, Emily can e-mail you <question>
First though, could you please try to answer my questions <sorry about the keyboard thing - question> Hang in there, despite technical difficulties, we'll help as best we can. J
Russell - 27 Dec 2003 21:07 GMT Hi J
Ok to answer questions
The spread of the cancer is what makes them think he has had it for so long he is a very active (was I should say now) athlete with an extremely high pain tolerance,
Just the bone pain alone sounds excruciating and perhaps partly why he's on the morphine,
The morphine is to help with the stomach pains he has experinced which was what made him see a doctor in the first
Radiation therapy is not an option for him apart from zapping the problem with his ribs (that is what doctors tell me) Chemo was not considered an option because that is not going to cure him I should have mentioned that they originally planned to remove the kidney and give him the whole 9 yds of radiation chemo etc However they found an undiagnosed heart valve problem that would make surgery way to risky and basically have told him it is terminal.
He is at home and trying to carry on life as normal as possible although his muscles are deteriating and he seems unable to walk as much as he used to enjoy.
he is being monitored for hypercalemia and as of yet his levels are normal ,but they are testing his blood on a weekly basis
My Dad's nature has always been very mellow and he has the pain under control , it seems that his anger is over the fact that he is dying and he won't see his grandson (HIS ENTIRE FOCUS) grow up. His anger comes and goes but she seems to be getting the worse of it (its only verbal) . He admits he doesn't mean to upset her and I know that some of the anger is focused on making her responsible for everything he normally takes care of , sort of putting his house in order , she doesn't want the responabilities or perhaps for her taking them on is accepting the inevitable.
I think not wanting to see me is either pride in not wanting to see him so weak (always a proud strong man) or thinking of me in practical terms ie my job flights etc , wish I knew
Emily can contact me if she wants but I don't think a phone call would help
Russell
Emily - 27 Dec 2003 22:47 GMT v6firebird@rogers.com said...
> Emily can contact me if she wants but I don't think a phone call would help I've got company for a couple of days now, but I'll be in touch soon, I promise. Meanwhile, please accept some {{{{{hugs}}}}} from the other side of the mountain.
J - 28 Dec 2003 02:38 GMT > [snipped answers to questions] > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > However they found an undiagnosed heart valve problem that would make > surgery way to risky and basically have told him it is terminal. Yes, well kidney surgery isn't easy anyhow and it rather sounds like it had already spread.
> He is at home and trying to carry on life as normal as possible although his > muscles are deteriating and he seems unable to walk as much as he used to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > control , it seems that his anger is over the fact that he is dying and he > won't see his grandson (HIS ENTIRE FOCUS) grow up. I'm very sorry about that. I think some have suggested making a "memory book" of thoughts and photos for the grandchild to know later how important he was to his grandfather.
> His anger comes and goes but she seems to be getting the worse of it (its > only verbal) . He admits he doesn't mean to upset her and I know that some > of the anger is focused on making her responsible for everything he normally > takes care of , sort of putting his house in order , she doesn't want the > responabilities or perhaps for her taking them on is accepting the > inevitable. Perhaps both. Perhaps he's in some sort of denial and if you flew over, to him it would confirm that which he does not want to face? It's a shame your mother has to go through this on her own. She could probably use your support and perspective during these trying "arrangements" especially if he's difficult to approach or talk with. A lot of these issues involve what he wants (or doesn't) for his care, wills, funeral, power of attorney of care and advanced directives.
> I think not wanting to see me is either pride in not wanting to see him so > weak (always a proud strong man) or thinking of me in practical terms ie my > job flights etc , wish I knew Maybe both? (Dad was like that). My sister is rather "pushy" and told him she had some "time" coming at work and she was going <end of story - no arguments> and helped with the paperwork and some preliminary arrangements. Then he rallied, then relapsed, so she went out again and he rallied while awaiting a room in longterm care. Then he relapsed a month or so later. We all went once we obtained an honest assessment, he only had a week or so left and could barely speak at the time, sadly.
Will he not speak with you on the telephone and explain his reasons for not wanting you to go? At that time, you could express how much you wish to see him while he is well enough to still (for instance) go for walks.
> Emily can contact me if she wants but I don't think a phone call would help Perhaps not, unless her husband can be of assist with your father. Or perhaps there's another male nearby with whom he'd be receptive to talking a bit about his feelings. A neighbour, an ex-co-worker, a minister, counsellor at the cancer centre.
It's so difficult being so far away. When closeby or in the same household, if the person is not receptive, we can say "oh well, I'll try later today or tomorrow" but if you make a trip and he's not receptive to talking or seeing you....
But really, isn't it up to you? I mean, if you just go, surely he won't turn you away? J
Emily - 27 Dec 2003 22:47 GMT RetroSpect@invalid.inv said...
> Hang in there, [...] we'll help as best we can. Ditto :-)
J - 27 Dec 2003 20:51 GMT Hello Russell,
I forgot to tell you there's also private ACOR lists at www.acor.org For instance: Kidney http://listserv.acor.org/archives/kidney-onc.html and metastatic http://listserv.acor.org/archives/metastatic.html
Also some (of) what your father might experience in the future might be here. http://crossingthecreek.com/guts.htm
There's a number of regulars here, Alayne, Emily, Steph (radiation oncologist - Canada), Mike in palliative care in Australia) and a number of others. If you just feel like ventiing or want someone to listen or an understanding shoulder to lean on, we'll be here reading.
Questions? Ask away, someone will help, if possible.
HTH, J
Alayne - 27 Dec 2003 22:07 GMT > Hello Russell, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > HTH, > J Hello Russell,
Very sorry to learn of the situation regarding your father. I am no medic - I simply was a carer for my husband who died recently of a Glioblastoma Brain Tumour. I totally emphathise with the situation you and your mother are in right now. Life simply doesn't feel fair does it? I understand your father's anger too, this is an emotion that you too may experience at some point once the shock of the diagnosis has worn off. It took me a while before I started shouting (I was actually ironing at the time!) but it is quite a good release valve sometimes. As for your father taking it out on your mother - people usually vent their frustrations on those they love dearest.
As J said above, if you want to have a good rant yourself, I have some good ears to listen.
It's a rocky road to travel - but be assured there are plenty of people here for you.
Hugs Now.
Alayne
Emily - 27 Dec 2003 23:03 GMT totallyfake@emailaddress.com said...
> As for your father taking it out on > your mother - people usually vent their frustrations on those they love > dearest. My mother, who is looking over my shoulder, has reminded me that years ago she used to help care for an elderly lady whose even more elderly mother was getting upset that her formerly sweet-natured daughter was always cross and rude. The daughter had had a tumour removed from her brain and her personality had changed a lot; sadly, not for the better. I also remember that my parents had friends, one of whom had had some sort of brain surgery: her sense of humour seemed to just vanish. It's very sad, but it seems to be a feature of brain surgery of this nature. ISTM the message here is to try not to take this sort of thing personally, no matter how hard that is - and it is, believe me. Neither of the ladies I've mentioned would normally have spoken or acted before surgery in the way they did after. I think you just have to bear with it and learn to be *very* tolerant.
And I've just realised that I haven't got the original post to hand, and therefore I can't see if the bit I've replied to is relevant or not... If it's not, please ignore me and I'll get my coat quick sharp. If it is, then I hope I've managed to help to put something into perspective. In either case, have some {{{{{hugs}}}}}
J - 27 Dec 2003 23:22 GMT > totallyfake@emailaddress.com said... > > As for your father taking it out on [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > not to take this sort of thing personally, no matter how hard that > is - and it is, believe me. I think all three of you are "spot on" as they say, except I hope the OP's mother has some respite from it. Able to get away from the situation and get support for herself too, otherwise both the fact that her husband is dying and her husband being cross with her, can surely drag a person down, if she's all alone in the situation.
That too must be a worry for the OP since he lives so far away from them both. Canada must be what...8 ? hours away from London, England by air (don't know if air goes to a major centre in Wales or what). hugs all. J
Emily - 29 Dec 2003 01:22 GMT v6firebird@rogers.com said...
> My Dad seems to be getting very angry with my mother for some reason , as if > he is taking out the pain on her , he says he can't help it but feels such > rage. Hi Russ
I had a word with my BiL in Bridgend this afternoon: he had treatment for colorectal cancer a few years back in what I suppose is the 'main' hospital in Bridgend these days. I asked him if he knew of any cancer support groups in the area. Apparently there's a hospice somewhere near (IIRC) Kenfig Hill that has a day centre where people can drop in; also he reminded me of the existence of BACUP, who in his opinion might be a useful first port of call. ISTM that even if your father doesn't want to know, your mother could probably use the support. Unfortunately, looking at their 'local centres' link on their web site elicits nothing in Wales at all, let alone in Bridgend; however there's a freefone number to the UK hotline (0808 800 1234) for "for information and support from our specialist nurses" which might be worth a try. Their main website is at http://www.cancerbacup.org.uk/Home
I'm not going to force myself on anyone; just so that you know though I'm still here, so if I can help in any way please feel free to let me know and I'll give it a go.
 Signature Emily (Rhondda, S Wales)
Russell - 30 Dec 2003 18:02 GMT Hi everyone
Thnak you all for the kind words and interest in our problems
Just spoke to my dad today and he has had the doctor back out and the doctor had a chat with my mum as well. It appears that a lot of my Dad's anger in regarding my mum being unwilling to come to terms with what is happening , The Doctor said my dad is the one thats ill but my mum is the patient. He feels she is hoping it will all go away if she hids from it , unfortunally it won't he is going to give her something to help her depression wihich hopefully will balance things out
Thanks emily for the suggestions Dad goes to Y Bwthyn Newydd (McMillanCancer Hospice) every week and this seems to help, he has actually given a few shows there as a thank you (forgot to mention he is a singer and amazingly is still giving show at the holiday home for the elderly in Porthcawl).
Where in the Rhondda are you ?
Dad is from Porth Mum from Tonyrefail some of my relatives still live up the Rhondda , mostly penygraig area , although most of the kids like me moved away
Well thats all for now Here is hoping that things will get easier for them
Russell
Alayne - 30 Dec 2003 18:48 GMT > Hi everyone > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Russell Hi Russell,
It is good that your dad goes to the day centre at the hospice regularly, I wonder if there is any chance that you mum can be offered something there too?? When Tony was in a hospice they also offered a "carers" day, I didn't attend myself (too busy with children etc.) but they offered all sorts like aromatherapy massages or more simply a chance to meet/chat with other carers in similar situations.
I can also understand why your doc. thinks your mum is the patient although it is your dad that is ill. She has a whole load of issues to deal with too and sometimes we "cope" by not facing them, she may well in time, in her own way. My husband had a GBM4 brain tumour and we never talked about his demise, other than in the far far distant future, even when the symptoms were for all to see. We felt that if we faced it then we accepted it and were not ready to give up the fight.
Let's hope that the meds. for her also help a little - does she have anyone that she can express her fears to?
Hugs now.
Alayne
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