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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / October 2006

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Gastric cancer, what next - Chemo again

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Bozz - 03 Oct 2006 11:23 GMT
Hi all,

My wife (an Oncology specialist nurse) was diagnosed with gastric cancer in
Jan 06. She had 6 cycles of ECF and 3 months of symptom free time.

Well, as we suspected it's back (not that it ever really went away). The CT
showed ascites and other abdo goo and the fact that she can only eat soup is
another clue. So it's off to chemo again on Thursday, Irinotecan/Modified de
Gramont for those interested.

The Oncologist was a bit more upbeat this week, more "let's give it a go"
than "are you really sure that you want to do this?" We bullied our way
through getting things started sooner than later with a well aimed "if you
can't put the PICC line in this week my friend and colleague will do it for
me tomorrow" which had the desired effect. So it's time to dust off the bum
bag for the pump, at least it's only for a couple of days per cycle, not
24/7 like before.

Although I said she's down to soup alone, the wine still manages to go down.
All those years of worrying about the amount of calories in the booze and at
last now we're greatful for them. Must try to start the chemo without a
hangover (both of us that is, well I had to keep her company) this time.

We did get through one milestone last weekend. We took our son off to
university at last. It's a little bit quieter around here nowadays, two at
uni and only one at home still. At least we can park the cars more easily.

One small observation. I think that I've worked out why there are not many
stomach cancer sufferers on the news group. They don't last that long.

I'm off to make a new and exciting soup for today's lunch. Parsnip and
broccoli with stilton I think.

Ian
J - 04 Oct 2006 11:04 GMT
> My wife (an Oncology specialist nurse) was diagnosed with gastric cancer in
> Jan 06. She had 6 cycles of ECF and 3 months of symptom free time.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> university at last. It's a little bit quieter around here nowadays, two at
> uni and only one at home still. At least we can park the cars more easily.

That's a positive :) and he continues his life plan.

> One small observation. I think that I've worked out why there are not many
> stomach cancer sufferers on the news group. They don't last that long.

I would be deceiving you, Ian, if I didn't tell you about the private ACOR
lists.
There's 40 or 50 more subscribers (from the last time I checked, which was
probably a year or so, ago).
http://www.acor.org/mailing.html?l=s
STOMACH-ONC
The Stomach Cancer Online Support Group
(292 subscribers)

Some join ACOR and continue to post here.
Some join ACOR (as the patient, where they can share their private thoughts and
feelings) and the partner or loved one posts here.
I hope we (the newsgroup) don't lose you, because your insight is valuable here,
but I don't want anyone saying I failed to advise of another resource of where
to connect with others ( patients or supporters for the same cancer) elsewhere.
J
Bozz - 06 Oct 2006 15:42 GMT
Well the PICC line went in well although my wife did reinact the shower
scene from Psycho when it bled rather well today. All fixed now thanks to a
quick trip to the old workplace for a cleanup. Irinotecan had an immediate
effect on the guts that surprised wifey a bit, but soon went away.

Maybe it's psycological, maybe it's the steroids of maybe even the atropine
but drinking and eating, still only soup and mushey biscuits (cookies for
out transatlantic cousins) seems a little better. Long may it continue.

Has anybody got any info on oesophageal end gastric stents? Do they actually
use them? There is lots of GOO info (the other end of the stomach) but
little input end stuff.

I did an interesting salmon mousse last night. Liquidise the cooked salmon
with cream, re-heat and it goes sorta scrambled egg like but still dissolves
in the mouth. At least it makes a change from veggie soups.

Ian
J - 07 Oct 2006 01:21 GMT
> Has anybody got any info on oesophageal end gastric stents? Do they actually
> use them? There is lots of GOO info (the other end of the stomach) but
> little input end stuff.

Hello Ian,
There's an irinotecan mongraph here
<http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/HPI/DrugDatabase/DrugIndexPro/Irinotecan1of2/default.htm>

It's in adobe acrobat format. It's best I don't open it at this time, until I
close other windows.
Adobe's tend to drag my computer resources down (too low); so I'm not sure if it
shows expected side efects; immediate, late (etc) as other monographs, on that
website show.

Are you referring to stents that go down the esophagus?
Or a gastrostomy? Percutaneous Endoscopic Gastrostomy (PEG tube)?
On the one hand, I've heard that they (can) get overgrown with the cancer, then
can't be removed.
And can be very painful and patients wishing they'd never had one put in.
Patients aspirating their gastrostomy feeds and asphixating from that.
That would be in hospice, so not something that surgeons might be aware of or
warn of.
Too unwell to remain upright during and after the feed until the stomach has
emptied and asphixating on feeds.

On the other hand, I've heard from a radiation oncologist, that some form of
radiation therapy can be used to reduce the size of the overgrowth, but at that
point, the question becomes is the patient well enough to undergo radiation
therapy and expected to live long enough to warrant the distress of transporting
a patient for such treatment.  Or too unwell (or advanced) to withstand the
risks of surgery to try to remove it and what that would accomplish, since the
tumor would probably automatically close over the opening.

Then I've just seen, on web pages, stents are sometimes placed to open the
esophagus, which closed due to scarring from radiation therapy and another which
seemed to imply that RT can cause a thickening and hence tightening of the stent
causing pain.

http://www.ercp.ucla.edu/pages/info/procedures/stents.html
This web page has a section on stents, which, in part, says that "Therefore,
dietary modification will always be necessary to prevent obstruction of the
stent and complications such as pneumonia due to aspiration of food and saliva
from the esophagus into the windpipe with resultant pneumonia. The most common
scenario where perforation has been observed is when there esophageal stent
placement is combined with radiation therapy of the esophagus."
So, I wonder if there's any benefit at all to wondering if there's short term
benefit, but major problems in the long run.

Please don't rely on me. What do the EC list people say?  I hope the loved ones
of those who've passed are honest about the pros and cons.

Although predicting what will grow where (I expect) is difficult, if it was I or
a loved one, I'd ask for a round table of sorts with oncologist and radiation
oncologist and surgeon (who know the existing locations), discussing what's
available in your country and the adviseability of...then get the point of view
(or experiences) of MacMillan nurses in your area.

I'm not an expert; just giving you some food for thought and perhaps things to
ask about.
J
J - 07 Oct 2006 10:52 GMT
> Well the PICC line went in well although my wife did reinact the shower
> scene from Psycho when it bled rather well today. All fixed now thanks to a
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> use them? There is lots of GOO info (the other end of the stomach) but
> little input end stuff.

Ian,
I'm looking at your post again.
I thought "GOO" was a typing error for "good", but I see on your other posts,
you also mentioned "goo".
Sounds like your wife has mucus producing cancer.
Unfortunately, gastric cancers are not been especially sensitive to chemos.
The longest we had someone here was fred, his mother, similar, she had multiple
surgeries and was at one point, producing lots of mucus, bringing it up. (he was
here for a little over a year).
After the mucous started coming up, she was getting her nutrition by IV.
Within a month of that she got pneumonia, and passed away 2 or 3 months later.

If I'm understanding you correctly mucous is collecting in your wife's stomach
and you're wanting her to eat more. If her stomach is filling with mucous, she
won't be hungry.

Joe's brother passed away rather quickly. It might be too painful for him to
enter this conversation and his brother lived further away from him, so probably
doesn't have all the details.

Time's ticking by and might be at a premium for quality, since your wife was
diagnosed in January..
I really feel you should have a frank discussion with your wife's doctors on how
they think things will go and guide you on options.  There's a limit to what
newsgroups can provide as to information, when the doctors have all the
pertinent information. Sorry I can't be more helpful.
Keep in touch and let us know how you're both doing.
J
Bozz - 07 Oct 2006 14:21 GMT
> I'm looking at your post again.
> I thought "GOO" was a typing error for "good", but I see on your other
> posts,
> you also mentioned "goo".

Sorry it's me. Goo in the origional post was not particularly nice stuff in
places like the ovaries. My wife didn't really want to know the gorey
details of the CT but obviously the seeding on the diaphragm is back with a
some ascites. The GOO above was Gastric Output Obstruction.

> Sounds like your wife has mucus producing cancer.
> Unfortunately, gastric cancers are not been especially sensitive to
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> she
> won't be hungry.

Once again, my fault for the confusion. Actually she could eat a horse, but
it won't go down - unless I liquidise it! She does spend most of the time
hungry but unable to satify that hunger.

> Joe's brother passed away rather quickly. It might be too painful for him
> to
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Keep in touch and let us know how you're both doing.
> J

Thanks for the advice. Don't worry, I'm not using you instead of the
"system" but more of a forewarned is forearmed.

Ian
J - 07 Oct 2006 23:38 GMT
> The GOO above was Gastric Output Obstruction.
>
> Actually she could eat a horse, but it won't go down - unless I liquidise it!
> She does spend most of the time hungry but unable to satify that hunger.

Hello Ian,
Well I've posted quite a few links about stents, G tubes, J tubes etc.
Some have illustrations, some don't.
Do they use PEG tubes? Yes, they do.
Some head and neck patients here have used them or are using them.

Since I'm not a surgeon and can't see your wife's scans, hopefully I"ve posted
enough information that will help you discuss the iissue with her doctors.
I hope it helps.
My best to you and your wife.
Keep in touch
J
J - 13 Oct 2006 18:17 GMT
> Maybe it's psycological, maybe it's the steroids of maybe even the atropine
> but drinking and eating, still only soup and mushey biscuits (cookies for
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> with cream, re-heat and it goes sorta scrambled egg like but still dissolves
> in the mouth. At least it makes a change from veggie soups.

Hello Ian,
You must be handy in the kitchen.
That mousse sounds delicious.
How's it going and any progress about stent?
J
Bozz - 17 Oct 2006 08:03 GMT
Hi all,

Well it has been 10 days since the chemo started and after only the first
cycle my wife can swallow much better already. Toast for breakfast (she only
said she like the porrage to be nice to me I think) and even fish, veg and
unmashed potato for dinner. This is all much better than the soup/blender
meals that were starting to not go down anyway.

So we've gone from the getting desperate stage to everything is ticking
along nicely. Oh, there's that chemo thing, but she's always coped well with
that (he said touching wood).

I know it's not forever, noting is, but we're living again, not dying.

Ian
Bozz - 17 Oct 2006 09:36 GMT
Hi all,

Well it has been 10 days since the chemo started and after only the first
cycle my wife can swallow much better already. Toast for breakfast (she only
said she liked the porrage to be nice to me I think) and even fish, veg and
unmashed potato for dinner. This is all much better than the soup/blender
meals that were starting to not go down anyway.

So we've gone from the "getting desperate" stage to everything ticking
along nicely so far. Oh, there's that chemo thing, but she's always coped
well with
that (he said touching wood).

I know it's not forever, nothing is, but I feel that we're living again, not
dying.

Ian
J - 18 Oct 2006 07:44 GMT
> Well it has been 10 days since the chemo started and after only the first
> cycle my wife can swallow much better already. Toast for breakfast (she only
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> I know it's not forever, nothing is, but I feel that we're living again, not
> dying.

It's good to read she's swallowing better, Ian.
Porridge eh? I think I just had a Mother Goose flashback. :)
Peas porridge hot, peas porridge cold
Peas porridge in the pot 9 days old
Some like it hot, some like it cold
Some like it in the pot 9 days old.
(I think that dates me)
J
betsyb - 22 Oct 2006 20:51 GMT
Signature

BetsyB

>> Well it has been 10 days since the chemo started and after only the first
>> cycle my wife can swallow much better already. Toast for breakfast (she
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> (I think that dates me)
> J

J, tell em I told you that poem. I rememory it.

Betsy
J - 23 Oct 2006 23:25 GMT
> "J" <ercent@anon.inv> wrote in message
> >> Porridge eh? I think I just had a Mother Goose flashback. :)
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> >
> J, tell em I told you that poem. I rememory it.

oh, that's where I learned it. my older friend :p
Thanks Betsy,
J
 
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