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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / July 2006Update: Bone mets now
Remember me? I broke a rib coughing last February and have had a pain in my lower left pelvic bone/spine area as well for over a year. Last Thursday I had another bone scan, and got the results today. The scan confirmed bone mets in my ribs (including the one that broke). It's been just over 3 years since my chemo for breast cancer (mastectomy). But I guess the bone mets must have been in my body for a year anyway before it was enough to show up on a scan. Today I feel lost. Nana > Remember me? I broke a rib coughing last February and have had a pain in my > lower left pelvic bone/spine area as well for over a year. Last Thursday I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > But I guess the bone mets must have been in my body for a year anyway before > it was enough to show up on a scan. Sorry to hear it, Nana. You've been on Femara and 6 month infusions of Zometa? (history: in case Steph wants to know). I was just rereading a crosspost thread with Tim Jackson and Steph in it and Steph was explaining there's curative dose of RT for bone mets or a palliative dose of RT. I don't know what they do, if there's a *hint* that there might also be mets in the pelvis and/or spine. Steph might comment on that. Keep us updated. ( ( ( Nana) ) ) J >> Remember me? I broke a rib coughing last February and have had a pain in >> my [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > ( ( ( Nana) ) ) > J Yes I have been on Femara and 6-month infusions of Zometa. It's a study to see if the Zometa helps prevent osteoporosis. And the Femara took away all my oestrogen and gives unpleasant side effects from that, but it sure didn't stop me from getting bone mets. I absolutely cannot figure out how to just get on with living and forget cancer. I've been fighting that for 3 years and I'm not winning the battle. We need to move out of the country home we have because we are so isolated and have no nearby friends. I want to move close to my daughter and her kids, where I will also be close to the hospital where my onc is. Now that we are looking at houses, I look at everything from a cancer perspective. Example: if bones in my spine break and I eventually need a wheelchair, will I be able to manoeuvre. Is there a downstairs room that can convert into a bedroom for when I end up really sick. How many years do I have left? Will the cancer still metastasize to my brain or my lungs? This whole business really, really, sucks, big time. Nana This whole business really, > really, sucks, big time. > > Nana Hi, Nana, It sure does. I am so sorry to hear of your bone mets. I hope you find the perfect home & that there are things to love about it other than the things you mention. Fig > This whole business really, >> really, sucks, big time. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Fig Thanks, Fig. I hope so too. Do you know if bone mets from breast cancer mean I am now at Stage IV? Do you also know if the average life span from diagnosis from bone mets is two years? This is what I have heard. Of course I know there must be some people that exceed that, but I need to be realistic. Nana >> This whole business really, >>> really, sucks, big time. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > realistic. > Nana Median survival is about 2 years. But that means that 50% of people do better - some MUCH better. But 50% do worse (some MUCH worse) >>> This whole business really, >>>> really, sucks, big time. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > But that means that 50% of people do better - some MUCH better. > But 50% do worse (some MUCH worse) Thanks Steph. I'm going to hope that I'm one that does much better. Is there chemo treatment to slow bone mets down at all? Nana >>>> This whole business really, >>>>> really, sucks, big time. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Nana It doesn't work very well as palliation for bone mets, and it doesn't impact survival >>>>> This whole business really, >>>>>> really, sucks, big time. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > It doesn't work very well as palliation for bone mets, and it doesn't > impact survival OK. So, can you help suggest a list of questions I should be asking the oncologist when I drive down to see him on Monday? My brain simply does not want to function properly right now. Thanks, Nana ">>>> Median survival is about 2 years. >>>> But that means that 50% of people do better - some MUCH better. >>>> But 50% do worse (some MUCH worse) [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Thanks, Nana I would buy or borrow Dr Love's Breast Cancer book it can help you with formulating questions. Before they adjusted their results for differences in primary cancer stage and other traits at diagnosis, the researchers discovered an encouraging trend: Survival was significantly longer for the women who experienced recurrences most recently. Here are the average survival rates they found for the groups: a.. 15 months for women who developed recurrent disease from 1974 to 1979, b.. 17 months for women who developed recurrent disease from 1980 to 1984, c.. 22 months for women who developed recurrent disease from 1985 to 1989, d.. 27 months for women who developed recurrent disease from 1990 to 1994, and e.. 58 months for women who developed recurrent disease from 1995 to 2000. The results of this study are encouraging. The study showed significantly improved survival for women diagnosed with breast cancer recurrence over the past few decades. It did not show conclusively whether the survival improvement was due to improved screening or new treatments. But it's probably some of both. And new treatments that have been widely used only in the past few years might mean even longer survival in the decades to come. " From http://www.breastcancer.org/improved_survival.html > ">>>> Median survival is about 2 years. >>>>> But that means that 50% of people do better - some MUCH better. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > From http://www.breastcancer.org/improved_survival.html That's encouraging. Must be because of new treatments, I guess. I would be happy with 58 months, that's for sure. Nana If you noticed the last reported was from 2000 , one could hypothesize that the 58 months may even be higher now. Ask your oncologist what their experience has been and where they feel you fit in. Are you on any hormone therapy since you are estrogen positive? Best of luck, Alex > If you noticed the last reported was from 2000 , one could hypothesize > that the 58 months may even be higher now. Ask your oncologist what their > experience has been and where they feel you fit in. Are you on any > hormone therapy since you are estrogen positive? > > Best of luck, Alex Yes, I've been on Femara. > > ">>>> Median survival is about 2 years. > >>>>> But that means that 50% of people do better - some MUCH better. [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > That's encouraging. Must be because of new treatments, I guess. I would be > happy with 58 months, that's for sure. Well, it says it's before the new treatments, but the new treatments are "taxanes, aromatase inhibitors, and Herceptin ". Taxanes won't do anything for your bones, Herceptin: not applicable to you and you've been on aromatase inhibitor... My bone density was stable.(compared to 2 years ago), so I don't think I'll bother with the test in 2 years. Osteoporosis they say quit smoking, avoid anything with caffeine in it. And I take calcium citrate, twice a day, because they're saying that the body cannot absorb more than 500 mg in one sitting. Maybe that's one question to ask them, if you don't take any, if you should? J >> > ">>>> Median survival is about 2 years. >> >>>>> But that means that 50% of people do better - some MUCH better. [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] > should? > J Are your telling Nana to quit smoking? Or are you talking about yourself J? Why wouldn't taxanes work on breast cancer ? After all bone mets is breast cancer spread to the bones. This makes no sense to me? And aromatase inhibitors I fail to see you point.....there is more than one type are you trying to tell Nana her time is up because she is not HER pos and that there is no chemo available? Smoking where did this come into the equation? I don't remember Nana talking about being a smoker. Are you mixing up your medical situation with Nana's ? Unless you have breast cancer you are comparing apples to oranges. Also in Canada you are allowed to order your own scans at will, or did your doc advise you to have a repeat test and decided not to? Finally are you asking Nana to ask about Calcium supplements? That is pretty much standard practice given by a GP. > "J" <macyinno@nospam.inv> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 91 lines] > mixing up your medical situation with Nana's ? Unless you have breast cancer > you are comparing apples to oranges. > Finally are you asking Nana to ask about Calcium supplements? That is pretty > much standard practice given by a GP. http://www.breastcancer.org/research_hormonal_012606a.html Here are some things to consider when deciding which hormonal therapy to take: * Aromatase inhibitors tend to cause fewer serious side effects than tamoxifen, including blood clots, stroke, and endometrial cancer. But much less is known about the long-term side effects of aromatase inhibitors compared to tamoxifen. * Aromatase inhibitors tend to cause more bone loss and more bone fractures than tamoxifen, at least for the first few years of treatment. Bone health is important in all women. No matter which hormonal therapy you decide to take, you should be careful about getting enough daily calcium and vitamin D, doing weight-bearing exercise, limiting alcoholic beverages, and not smoking. If you decide to take an aromatase inhibitor, you need to be even more mindful of your bone health. A DEXA scan (to test for bone density) before switching to an aromatase inhibitor can be quite helpful. If osteopenia or osteoporosis is detected, or if your doctor recommends taking steps to prevent bone loss before it happens, there are lifestyle changes, medications, and supplements that can build bone strength or prevent further bone loss. * Tamoxifen is a generic drug and costs much less than the aromatase inhibitors, all of which are relatively new brands on the market. Aromatase inhibitors may cost between $200 and $300 a month, compared to $40 to $100 per month for tamoxifen. If you have serious financial concerns, or do not have insurance that will pay for an aromatase inhibitor, you can apply for financial assistance. Your local hospital may know about available funds. Or you can ask your doctor to submit a medication funding request to the pharmaceutical company that makes the aromatase inhibitor you're taking. Or you can contact the company's support center directly: >>>>>> This whole business really, >>>>>>> really, sucks, big time. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > Thanks, Nana If the mets are not causing symptoms, you may need nothing done. If they are causing pain, you need radiotherapy  SignatureBetsy > >>>>>>> This whole business really, [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > If the mets are not causing symptoms, you may need nothing done. > If they are causing pain, you need radiotherapy >>>>>>> This whole business really, >>>>>>>> really, sucks, big time. [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > If the mets are not causing symptoms, you may need nothing done. > If they are causing pain, you need radiotherapy Yes, they are causing pain. But I thought that I read that radiotherapy could only be done one time. If that's the case, wouldn't it be better to wait until the pain is unbearable? Does radiotherapy "kill" the bone? Nana >>>>>>>> This whole business really, >>>>>>>>> really, sucks, big time. [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Nana Radiotherapy can certainly be done more than once. Treat early and the pain won't become "unbearable" Don't read- ask your rad onc, because you have some very erroneous ideas. Radiotherapy kills the cancer, not the bone > >> Thanks Steph. I'm going to hope that I'm one that does much better. Is > >> there chemo treatment to slow bone mets down at all? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > oncologist when I drive down to see him on Monday? My brain simply does not > want to function properly right now. Hi Nana, I'll post two different issues... maybe things to ask about? Hugs J (this is a website that Alex seems to like) http://www.breastcancer.org/rcr_metas_marow.html Taking Breaks From Treatment Personal Quote "It's a crap shoot, really. What works for one won't necessarily work for all. I'm fighting the battle. I know I'm not going to win the war, but I would rather go down fighting. As it is, I'm not supposed to be alive so many years after this all started." Suzanne If you have metastatic disease that is advancing slowly and your quality of life is good, you may decide to stop treatment, enjoy your life, and regularly consider your decision again. Evelyn, whose cancer had metastasized to her bones, said, "My quality of life was much more important to me. 'Take a holiday from your medications,' my doctor said, so I dumped 'em all out. My body was so happy to be done with that crap!" Evelyn was able to live comfortably for almost two years without treatment. When her cancer progressed further and she developed serious pain, she returned to her physician and decided to try chemotherapy again. Her disease and her pain are under control again, many years after she was first diagnosed with metastatic disease. Expert Quote "If a cat can be said to have nine lives, a woman with breast cancer can have more than a thousand." J. Smith M.D. If you've been off treatment for a while, you may find that you need more and more pain medication. However, the side effects of that same pain medication can affect your quality of life. In this case you may benefit from radiation to the area of persistent and progressive pain. Radiation may allow you to eliminate or significantly reduce all pain medications, lessening troublesome side effects. Discuss this option with your physician. and this one 1) Gives other biphosphonates 2) mentions types of metastases - osteoblastic and osteolytic 3) every 2 - 3 weeks...you were getting infusions every 6 months? Would it slow things down if you got them more frequently? <http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_4X_How_Is_Bone_Metastasis_Trea ted_66.asp?sitearea=> Bisphosphonates Bisphosphonates are a group of drugs routinely used to treat osteoporosis, a condition that weakens the bones. Drugs in this category include alendronate, clodronate, editronate, ibandronate, zoledronate), and pamidronate. They have also proven useful in treating patients with cancer that has spread to their bones. The most commonly used drug is zoledronate (Zometa). However ibandronate, which can also be given intravenously, may be as effective. These drugs help reduce bone pain, slow down bone damage caused by the cancer, reduce high blood calcium levels (hypercalcemia), and lower the risk of broken bones. They are more effective when x-rays show the metastatic cancer is causing the bone to become thinner and weaker (osteolytic metastases). They are less effective in treating osteoblastic metastases (sclerosis). Bisphosphonates may be taken by mouth or given through a vein. Because the digestive system does not absorb these drugs very well, and because they can cause irritation and ulcers in the esophagus, bisphosphonate treatment for bone metastasis usually is given intravenously every 3 to 4 weeks. Studies that compared pamidronate with zoledronate found they both worked equally well. Zoledronate has a slight advantage because it takes less time to inject. Clinical studies reported the most common side effects to be fatigue, fever, nausea, vomiting, anemia (low red blood cell counts), and bone or joint pain. But, the cancer or other drugs that the patients were taking may have caused many of these effects. Bisphosphonates may also cause arthritis-like joint pain and muscle pain. These can often be relieved or prevented with a mild pain reliever. Recently doctors have been reporting a very distressing side effect of damage to the jawbones of patients receiving bisphosphonates. This side effect is called osteonecrosis. Patients complain of pain in the jaw and examining doctors find that part of the bone of the upper or lower jaw has died. This can lead to loss of teeth in that area. Infections of the jaw bone may also develop. Doctors dont know why this happens or how to prevent it. So far, the only treatment has been to stop the bisphosphonate treatment. The only factor that doctors have found that increases the risk of this problem is having jaw surgery or having a tooth removed. These should be avoided. One way to avoid these dental procedures is to maintain good oral hygiene by flossing, brushing, making sure that dentures fit properly, and having regular dental checkups. Any tooth or gum infections should be treated promptly. Dental fillings, root canal procedures, and tooth crowns do not seem to lead to osteonecrosis. Some oncologists recommend that patients have a dental checkup and have any tooth or jaw problems treated before they start taking bisphosphonates. > <http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_4X_How_Is_Bone_Metastasis_Trea ted_66.asp?sitearea=> what J omitted and it is most critical to treatment is: "Most doctors feel the most important treatment for bone metastases is treatment directed against the cancer. This is usually done with systemic therapies. Systemic therapies enter the bloodstream and can therefore reach cancer cells that have spread throughout the body. This is different from local therapies, which are directed at a single area. Systemic therapies include chemotherapy or hormone therapies that are taken by mouth or injected. " This is chemotherapy,.....plain and simple. Metstatic breast cancer is a systemic disease, and needs to be treated as such. The drug of choice is chemotherapy and well as other treatments. No one would tell a diabetic no matter how end stage not take insulin, or a dialysis patient to stop dialysis. or a cardiac patient to stop their cardiac drugs except when they got to the point their disease was making there life unbearable. There is an site for breast mets patients http://www.bcmets.org/ and http://knowledge.bcmets.org/index.php/Main_Page Please trust your licensed credentialed healthcare team, not half quotes from web sites from people ( which I include myself) Also nothing replaces a clinical exam . This is a support group where cancer patients and their families can share our stories and vent. Medical advice needs to be given by clinicians after an careful analysis of the situation. I personally would not find "the Median blah blah is ...." it is cold and impersnal and you may not be a median patient. I certainly wasn't. Statically, I should have never had breast cancer but did. >> <http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_4X_How_Is_Bone_Metastasis_Trea ted_66.asp?sitearea=> > > what J omitted and it is most critical to treatment is: > > "Most doctors feel the most important treatment for bone metastases is > treatment directed against the cancer. That simply isn't true. "Most doctors" aren't that stupid, I hope. > This is usually done with systemic therapies. Systemic therapies enter the > bloodstream and can therefore reach cancer cells that have spread [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > cardiac drugs except when they got to the point their disease was making > there life unbearable. That's an entirely false set of analogies. Insulin dependant diabetics die if they don't get insulin. Dialysis patients die if they don't get dialysis. Patients with common metastatic cancers die whether or not they get chemotherapy. If there is evidence that chemotherapy extends survival, then it may well be indicated. If there isn't, there has to be some other reason to give it, and "metatstatic breast cancer is a systemic" disease is not a reason. Chemotherapy is very poor treatment for bone pain. Anyone who suggests denying radiotherapy as the treatment of choice for the symptoms of bone metastases is plain wrong. It has an 80% symptomatic response rate. Chemotherapy comes nowhere near. >>> <http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_4X_How_Is_Bone_Metastasis_Trea ted_66.asp?sitearea=> >> >> what J omitted and it is most critical to treatment is: >> >> "Most doctors feel the most important treatment for bone metastases is >> treatment directed against the cancer. . > That simply isn't true. "Most doctors" aren't that stupid, I hope. That was a direct quote from the American Cancer Association, I guess all doctors who practice according to the American Cancer Guidelines are stupid ..... >> This is usually done with systemic therapies. Systemic therapies enter >> the bloodstream and can therefore reach cancer cells that have spread [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > reason to give it, and "metatstatic breast cancer is a systemic" disease > is not a reason. Chemotherapy is very poor treatment for bone pain. Chemotherapy is used in advanced breast cancer, it does prolong life http://patients.uptodate.com/topic.asp?file=cancer/8347&title=Breast%20Cancer > Anyone who suggests denying radiotherapy as the treatment of choice for > the symptoms of bone metastases is plain wrong. It has an 80% symptomatic > response rate. Chemotherapy comes nowhere near. No one is suggestiung that radiation is not an appropiate treatment......except you! >>>> <http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_4X_How_Is_Bone_Metastasis_Trea ted_66.asp?sitearea=> >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > doctors who practice according to the American Cancer Guidelines are > stupid ..... The ACA is no more authoritative than any other cancer association. The statement they posted is simply untrue, and unfounded. >> That's an entirely false set of analogies. Insulin dependant diabetics >> die if they don't get insulin. Dialysis patients die if they don't get [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Chemotherapy is used in advanced breast cancer, it does prolong life > http://patients.uptodate.com/topic.asp?file=cancer/8347&title=Breast%20Cancer In breast cancer, it does, modestly. In most other common cancers it doesn't. And I never claimed otherwise. >> Anyone who suggests denying radiotherapy as the treatment of choice for >> the symptoms of bone metastases is plain wrong. It has an 80% symptomatic >> response rate. Chemotherapy comes nowhere near. > > No one is suggestiung that radiation is not an appropiate > treatment......except you! Your implicit message was fairly clear. Alex. What is your problem? >>>>> <http://www.cancer.org/docroot/CRI/content/CRI_2_4_4X_How_Is_Bone_Metastasis_Trea ted_66.asp?sitearea=> >>>> [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Your implicit message was fairly clear. Alex. > What is your problem? Please show me where I question radiation, I still suggest a competent hands on credentialed clinician who provides a hands on evaluation is worth more then a million posts here. > [...] > >> Thanks Steph. I'm going to hope that I'm one that does much better. Is [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Thanks, Nana Hello Nana, I was thinking that you may want to ask for a 2nd meeting. (in case you, later, have questions after the first). A second opinion is probably also available. I was also reading about pre-emptive surgery (to reinforce a bone) to prevent fractures. You might want to talk with them about that. My impression is that you are fit, if surgery were possible. They may have a list of orthopedic surgeons, who can be called on short notice.. I'll be thinking of you today and hope to hear from you, as you are able. ( ( ( Many hugs, Nana ) ) ) J > Hello Nana, > I was thinking that you may want to ask for a 2nd meeting. (in case you, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > ( ( ( Many hugs, Nana ) ) ) > J I have never ever heard of pre emptive surgery to prevent a fracture. PLease cite your source. >> Hello Nana, >> I was thinking that you may want to ask for a 2nd meeting. (in case you, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > I have never ever heard of pre emptive surgery to prevent a fracture. > PLease cite your source. It's a common procedure especially in long bones like the femur when there are mets which have eroded the cortex. Go and do a google instead of showing your ignorance again. > It's a common procedure especially in long bones like the femur when there > are mets which have eroded the cortex. > Go and do a google instead of showing your ignorance again. It is not a common procedure here in the Boston area. In our area we have a very active cancer and orthopedic center and I can't remember one case ever when I worked in an insurance company that managed millions of members. >> It's a common procedure especially in long bones like the femur when >> there are mets which have eroded the cortex. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > case ever when I worked in an insurance company that managed millions of > members. This is a paragraph from the same ACS (not "Cancer Association") article that YOU posted!!!!!!! "It also may be important to treat the bone problems. Local treatments such as radiation therapy can relieve the pain in a bone by destroying the cancer. Sometimes a bone such as your femur (thigh bone) might look as if it is close to breaking. Your doctor will recommend that you have surgery to prevent this. To do this, the surgeon places a thin steel rod in the bone. It is much easier to prevent a damaged femur from breaking than to repair it after it has broken." Maybe Boston is a bit behind the times? Hello..... please pay attention "J" the non expert posted from this (ACS) site initially not me.....DO YOU UNDERSTAND?????? That is the trouble when you post things out of context. Nana has just been diagnosed with bone mets and now you and J are suggesting Surgery in her tibia ( her legs) when she doesn't have mets there? Quote "The scan confirmed bone mets in my ribs (including the one that broke). Nana also said " if there's a *hint* that there might also be mets in the pelvis and/or spine." Would you replace her pelvis and spine too? I guess you are right we are way behind the times here in Boston. Doctors listen to patient concerns and don 't suggest surgery to areas that don't have bone mets. Even preventive surgery for bone mets Once again, the best place to get medical advice is from you health care team, who has completed a clinical exam and is credentialed. This is a support group and we should be giving each other support not medical advice. Personally, when I am trying to deal with cancer issues I learn the most from other cancer survivors since they have shared similar experiences. If you can make it to a newsgroup you can google all the information you need. Most hospitals have medical librarians who can perform a complete search. Nana, I am sorry this has gone so far off track, I hope your doctor can put you on a treatment plan that will keep you alive and comfortable. Out of all the cancers, mets in breast cancer is offers the longest survival time. ALex >>> It's a common procedure especially in long bones like the femur when >>> there are mets which have eroded the cortex. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Maybe Boston is a bit behind the times? > Hello..... please pay attention "J" the non expert posted from this (ACS) > site initially not me.....DO YOU UNDERSTAND?????? That is the trouble when [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Nana also said " if there's a *hint* that there might also be mets in the > pelvis and/or spine." Would you replace her pelvis and spine too? Misquoting again eh and putting words in our mouths.... I did not write that she should ask "for" surgery. I suggested that she should talk "with them" about that. And told her surgery is available (perhaps I should have added "if needed", so you would not get so upset). If you don't understand what I or others write, please, ask for clarification. Nana wanted questions to ask and I gave her some. J > >alex wrote: > > Nana has just been diagnosed with bone mets and now you and J are suggesting > > Surgery in her tibia ( her legs) when she doesn't have mets there? Quote I just did a word search on this group from 7/17 (when this thread started) through current & the only use of 'tibia' that comes up is yours right here, Alex. You're referring to things I am unable to find. >From what I can see, the intent of this part of the thread was to provide Nana some questions to ask her doctor about, including planning for events that could occur in the future, given her current situation. Can we please get back to Nana? Fig >> >alex wrote: >> > Nana has just been diagnosed with bone mets and now you and J are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > yours right here, Alex. You're referring to things I am unable to > find. Steph referred to Long bone which are the arms and leg bones. Tibia = long bones I agree let's do what this group does best support each other emotionally >>From what I can see, the intent of this part of the thread was to > provide Nana some questions to ask her doctor about, including planning [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Fig > Out of all the cancers, mets in breast cancer is offers the longest > survival time. ALex Hence the questions to ask provided and planning ahead (contingency plan). If you don't understand what I or others write, ask for clarification. J > Nana, > I am sorry this has gone so far off track, I hope your doctor can put you > on a treatment plan that will keep you alive and comfortable. > Out of all the cancers, mets in breast cancer is offers the longest > survival time. ALex Thanks Alex. Also thanks to Steph, and everyone else that responded. I can't sit in the chair long enough to respond to everyone, sorry. My lower back hurts to sit or to walk. I have a bit more information, but not much. Yesterday I saw my oncologist. The spine xrays he had done 3 weeks ago show that I have some fractures in my lower spine, down at the bottom of the spine. That's the area that is so very painful and my family doctor has been insisting for months is just arthritis. Anyway, the onc has ordered a CT scan as he wants to double-check that the areas in the ribs are indeed bone mets. He says there is a chance they may be more fractures, and not mets. If so, then he has to figure out why my bones are breaking. He says it is not osteoporosis. Personally, I am thinking it might be the Femara. He said not to stop it yet until he decides about the bone mets issue. God, I hope they are fractures and not mets after all. But I guess it's not so good that my bones are breaking so easily. At least he has prescribed a low dose of morphine (2 mg., which isn't helping yet), and referring me to the hospice pain clinic. So I guess I won't know much more for a few weeks. Meanwhile I'm not doing anything that might cause problems with the bones now. I'm bending carefully and slowly, not lifting anything over 5 lbs, and no more mowing the lawns. Sheesh! It's good that I enjoy reading. Nana Wow what a mixed message. Is your oncologist referring to hospice for pain control only? Did your oncologist see any other signs that would suggest mets ( abnormal labs). There is new procedure that does not require surgery http://www.spineuniverse.com/displayarticle.php/article1525.html Ask you doctor, you do sound like a puzzle. Hopefully the CT Scan can get you squared away... and pain clinic get your pain under control. Alex >> Nana, >> I am sorry this has gone so far off track, I hope your doctor can put [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Nana > Wow what a mixed message. Is your oncologist referring to hospice for > pain control only? [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Alex Hi Alex, Yes, I think for pain control only at this point. Umm, he also said for "lifestyle changes" whatever that means. The bone scan that my family physician requested came back positive for bone mets. I took that report to the oncologist, but he isn't 100% convinced about the ribs having bone mets (because of the xray showing multiple fractures in my lower spine). The onc said after I have the CT scan he would know more if the ribs are bone mets or fractures. Thanks for the link. That's interesting information. Nana I find what you are saying very interesting, when my dad was alive, he fractured some ribs, they did a scan, and I was told he was loaded with Mets in the bone and was going to die soon. I called his PCP ( he was in rehab at the time). His PCP was very familiar with my dad's case, which prostate cancer was one of his many problems. His PCP told me he was confident my dad didn't have active cancer. To make a long story short he told me to get my dad to an oncologist ASAP. The oncologist, who was not my dad's routine doctor told us he did not have bone mets. The oncologist he was very confident that my dad didn't have bone mets - he had a bone disease ( which was a long ongoing problem and I told the radiologist about this and still said my dad had mets). He showed me the difference between the patterns of bone mets and the patterns of the pagets disease he had. Well my Dad never had mets he died of a cerebral bleed. Prostate recurrence never happened. Hope you are a snafu like my dad. Life style changes maybe not mowing the lawn .... Best of luck Alex >> Wow what a mixed message. Is your oncologist referring to hospice for >> pain control only? [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > > Nana >> Nana, >> I am sorry this has gone so far off track, I hope your doctor can [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Nana Nana, I hope the best for you, whtever that may be. Yes, reading is good. You just may have to get a studly male specimen to take care of the lawn. Summer's half over anyhow. The mosquitoes are vicious here - you don't need those. Take care of yourself. Hugs, Fig > Nana, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Hugs, > Fig A studly male specimen sounds good :) We have lots of mosquitoes here too. You take care too, Fig. Nana > Thanks Alex. Also thanks to Steph, and everyone else that responded. I can't > sit in the chair long enough to respond to everyone, sorry. My lower back > hurts to sit or to walk. If it's any consolation, I have the same problem without cancer causing it. Disk disease. SignatureMore abuse of eminent domain! http://www.villagelandgrab.com/ >> This whole business really, >>> really, sucks, big time. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > but I need to be realistic. > Nana Nana, I see Steph answered. Socks noticed his bone mets before anything in the lungs. That means he survived almost 4.5 years after discovering extensive bone mets. He went on Zometa too, more often than every 6 months; he had regular Zometa treatments scheduled sort of like chemo. Funny, he was told the area around his mets were made very strong by Zometa, that if anything broke, it wouldn't be there. His pain was from the bone mets. Besides the pain meds, the thing that helped most (believe it or not) was a cream made up by hospice based upon lavender. Someone at hospice mixed it up. We easily went through a quart. At first, we thought we'd humor them - if the pain meds weren't getting the pain, what chance did herbal cream have? But it was phoneminal. When I got a terrible, unrelenting pain in my arm, it worked its magic there too. Wish we'd had it from the start. I've been meaning to ask for the recipe. Fig >>> This whole business really, >>>> really, sucks, big time. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > Fig Well it sure can't hurt to try. Any possibility of getting the recipe or finding out where to buy in Canada? I'm glad Socks survived over 4 years from the bone mets. That's good news. Of course, I know it can easily go into the lungs next. God, just keep it out of my brain! Nana > Yes I have been on Femara and 6-month infusions of Zometa. It's a study to > see if the Zometa helps prevent osteoporosis. And the Femara took away all [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > the cancer still metastasize to my brain or my lungs? This whole business > really, really, sucks, big time. Hello Nana, Yes, it sucks. I've seen some mighty brave warriors on the breast cancer newsgroup who move me to tears of compassion and wishing it wasn't happening to them. And that's how I feel about you. Good idea about the moving. I think with bone mets, I'd look into a bungalow or ranch style, with laundry on the main floor. If there's a basement it could be for relax time, pool table, bar, bedrooms for grandkids sleepovers or visitors, with a bathroom down there as well. Here I am planning your home purchase. :) Talk to a real estate agent. There's probably just the right fit for you. I don't know if you'll end up in a wheelchair, but I would look into (upper body) arm-strengthening to hold and hug the grandkids and for easier manoeuvering if a wheelchair becomes necessary. (stair) Ramps are often easy to add to one story homes, it's the door widths you have to watch out for. Split-level, probably not a good idea. Don't forget, your husband's aging as well, so might as well buy something that'll serve him well during his greying years. With bone mets, you can't forget but with proper palliative treatment (and hopefully suggestions from treatment team on how to slow it down), you can squeeze in lots of living. Please keep in touch and let us know how you're doing. J :) > I don't know if you'll end up in a wheelchair, but I would look into (upper body) > arm-strengthening to hold and hug the grandkids and for easier manoeuvering if a > wheelchair becomes necessary. Nana, I think it might depend upon where the bone mets are located. Socks' in ribs didn't require wheelchair for them (just for general weakness at very end), but my friend with breast cancer mets to lower spine was in a wheelchair. We still got out though. Her home was open plan so no problems with most doors. She had double doors to main floor master. You might look for main floor master. With my arthritis, I wouldn't mind that at all & it makes it easier for you to catch quick naps. They seem very popular these ddays with ageing population. > With bone mets, you can't forget but with proper palliative treatment (and > hopefully suggestions from treatment team on how to slow it down), you can > squeeze in lots of living. Hope you do that, Nana. Have you been following Penny's blog? She's an inspiration. Fig > :) > > I don't know if you'll end up in a wheelchair, but I would look [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] >> > Fig I have been following Pen's blog faithfully. I pray I can be as strong as she is when my time comes. Nana >> Yes I have been on Femara and 6-month infusions of Zometa. It's a study >> to [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > Please keep in touch and let us know how you're doing. > J Yes, I've gotta get in lots and lots of living! I have been mowing our lawn with a heavy gas push power (nearly two acres) but afterwards, my ribs and lower back hurt for days and days. But I don't know if I am doing harm, or helping to strengthen my body. Nana > Yes, I've gotta get in lots and lots of living! I have been mowing our lawn > with a heavy gas push power (nearly two acres) but afterwards, my ribs and > lower back hurt for days and days. But I don't know if I am doing harm, or > helping to strengthen my body. Well, presumably you're not doing all that in one day. And I would think that helps your leg strength and upper body strength. You'll have to ask them if you should continue (or stop). I was thinking, if you can lift yourself (up some) from a chair and slide over onto the "potty", that might prove your upper body strength. If you try it, make sure someone's there to catch you so you don't slip and please don't hurt your ribs. J >> Remember me? I broke a rib coughing last February and have had a pain in >> my [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > palliative > dose of RT. There is no curative dose for bone mets. I'm sure I didn't say that. > I don't know what they do, if there's a *hint* that there might also be > mets in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ( ( ( Nana) ) ) > J > "J" <macyinno@nospam.inv> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > There is no curative dose for bone mets. I'm sure I didn't say that. I'm sorry for misquoting you, Steph. You did not say that. I don't know why I wrote that because I know better. My apologies (to everyone reading) for spreading misinformation. J |
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