Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / January 2006
mania and interferon experience
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SuzanneMc - 21 Jan 2006 04:57 GMT Hi I'm a caregiver looking for anyone with insight on interferon side effects. My mom is currently in a psychiatric ward after experiencing extreme manic and psychotic symptoms brought on by reduction in her interferon dose.(she was in her 7th week) I'm very afraid because her doctors say they have never seen this and don't know how long it will last, possibly months and they don't know that it is reversible for sure. I did find case history's in some medical studies and there are some cautions on the product packaging but we were only provided that information after the fact. I would love to hear from anyone who has heard of this type of reaction.
Thnaks Suz
Steph - 21 Jan 2006 06:46 GMT > Hi I'm a caregiver looking for anyone with insight on interferon side > effects. My mom is currently in a psychiatric ward after experiencing [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Thnaks Suz Didn't we already ask if a brain CT or MRI has been done?
SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 03:04 GMT Yes and thanks for your suggestion. A CT scan has already been done and brain mets has been ruled out. The docs are saying that this is a drug induced mood disorder brought on by the change in dosage of interferon. At the moment treating the psychosis has become the primary concern and all cancer related care has stopped. What I really want to know is how long this condition will last. Her docs say they don't have any experience with this I'm hoping some survivors or caregivers do. The initial condition was Clarks VI melanoma on the thigh that had spread to lymph nodes in the groin. After surgery, skin grafts and lymphedema were problematic but this psychosis is not something we were prepared for.
Steph - 22 Jan 2006 08:39 GMT > Yes and thanks for your suggestion. A CT scan has already been done > and brain mets has been ruled out. The CT scan is negative. That does not mean brain mets are ruled out.......... It is by FAR the likeliest explanantion
> The docs are saying that this is a > drug induced mood disorder brought on by the change in dosage of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > grafts and lymphedema were problematic but this psychosis is not > something we were prepared for. J - 22 Jan 2006 09:41 GMT > "SuzanneMc" <suzannemc@sympatico.ca> wrote in message > ... [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > out.......... > It is by FAR the likeliest explanantion Likely but to a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Wouldn't cost the system much to check and treat, if applicable, for B12 level and thyroid. (she's posting from Canada, likely Ont)
J
> > The docs are saying that this is a > > drug induced mood disorder brought on by the change in dosage of [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > grafts and lymphedema were problematic but this psychosis is not > > something we were prepared for. SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 19:19 GMT Steph, you seem to be very succint in your reply. Do you know if there is a definitive way to rule out brain mets? I'm looking for the best outcome I can get for mom and the more information I can get the better. Currently the onc. is saying he believes that the psychosis is related to the interferon but because he hasn't seen this before he advised the psych. to treat the psychosis as if cancer and interferon were not present. Accordingly she was put on clonazepam (an anti anxiety) and zyprexa (an anti psychotic) The psych is now her primary doc so he oredered and reviewed the CT scan It seems the onc. has washed his hands of this mess.
Steph - 22 Jan 2006 20:10 GMT > Steph, you seem to be very succint in your reply. Do you know if there > is a definitive way to rule out brain mets? I'm looking for the best [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > doc so he oredered and reviewed the CT scan It seems the onc. has > washed his hands of this mess. Common things are common, rare things are rare. More than 50% of patients with high risk deep melanomas get brain mets at some time. CT scans are not 100% accurate. An MRI or a lumbar puncture may clarify. The treatment she's getting may be appropriate, but if she has brain mets, some radiotherapy and or steroids may help
SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 19:21 GMT Steph, you seem to be very succint in your reply. Do you know if there is a definitive way to rule out brain mets? I'm looking for the best outcome I can get for mom and the more information I can get the better. Currently the onc. is saying he believes that the psychosis is related to the interferon but because he hasn't seen this before he advised the psych. to treat the psychosis as if cancer and interferon were not present. Accordingly she was put on clonazepam (an anti anxiety) and zyprexa (an anti psychotic) The psych is now her primary doc so he oredered and reviewed the CT scan It seems the onc. has washed his hands of this mess.
J - 21 Jan 2006 09:29 GMT > Hi I'm a caregiver looking for anyone with insight on interferon side > effects. My mom is currently in a psychiatric ward after experiencing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > information after the fact. I would love to hear from anyone who has > heard of this type of reaction. Hello and welcome Suz. What type of cancer did she have? I think interferon is used for kidney and myeloma (possibly melanoma and others). Get her B12 levels checked and let us know what head scans she's had. J
SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 03:15 GMT Thank you. My mom had a Clarks VI melanoma on her thigh which spread to lymph nodes in her groin. She had skin grafts and lyphedema problems after surgery but was doing well mentally and had a positive outlook when the psychosis set in suddenly. She has had a CT scan done and brain mets was ruled out. They are calling this a drug induced mood disorder. How are B12 levels related? I'll certainly ask about them. Suz
J - 22 Jan 2006 10:29 GMT > Thank you. My mom had a Clarks VI melanoma on her thigh which spread > to lymph nodes in her groin. She had skin grafts and lyphedema [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > them. > Suz I'd ask about B12 and thyroid. Anyone really can have what they call a psychotic break. Happened to my grandmother, after she'd been living alone for a while. We went to visit her and she was sitting there cutting up paper into little pieces and wsan't making much sense at all. We called my aunt (her adult daughter), consulted doctor and decided she should be placed in a nursing home. At that time, I never thought to ask about thyroid nor B12 and I don't know if that was found later. There's also "hardening of the arteries" that can affect the brain. anyway, some years later, we had a family gathering and she was sharp as a tack. ( back to her old self, although older). Some people can slip into depression and eventually psychosis.
So this mayo blurb (below) tells me to rule out drugs, alcohol (and some people are especially good at hiding alcohol use) - an ex-neighbor of mine comes to mind. She had bottles hidden all over the home and I really don't think her husband clued in. She'd wait until he left, then have some delivered by taxi. Even when I was there, if she thought I was busy doing something, she'd turn her back to me, bend over, grab a bottle, down some, then put the bottle back and continue talking like nothing happened. I saw it, numerous times. Mayo also mentions thyroid. And autoimmune disease. I don't know all autimmune diseases, but apparently in Lupus, psychosis can occur. A quebecer told us that his wife was diagnosed with psychosis and was in hospital for months, but once she was diagnosed with Lupus and treated for that, that cleared up and her psychosis wasn't a problem any more. http://www.mayoclinic.org/specialty-pharmacy/hepatitis.htm Side Effects Side effects from drug therapy include severe flulike symptoms from the interferon and a temporary drop in hemoglobin (anemia), white cell or platelet counts in your blood. Chronic side effects, which affect about half of those receiving treatment with interferon-ribavirin, include extreme fatigue, anxiety, irritability and depression. A small percentage of people may experience psychosis or suicidal behavior. Interferon is not recommended for people who have a history of major depression. Those who have untreated thyroid disease, low blood cell counts or autoimmune disease, or who drink alcohol or use drugs are also not good candidates for this treatment.
http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2001/07_01/dharmarajan.htm Vitamin B12 deficiency should be considered in the initial workup of patients with dementia and psychiatric disorders (20,21). Cerebral Dementia, depression, memory loss, psychosis, cerebrovascular disease (through high serum homocysteine levels)
Print that up and if she is low, tell them you want the injections. Some people continue later on sublingual (under the tongue). Extra B pills don't do it, because sometimes there's an absorption problem in the gastro system, so injection is cheap and painless and once topped up, she can be rechecked every six months and more injections, if necessary or continue an injection monthly.
If you can't find the cause, then as Steph thinks, maybe it is the melanoma and it's just not visible at this time. Which would say to me the interferon isn't working.
My cousin died from melanoma spring/summer 2004. It was in his lungs, liver and brain. Nobody ever mentioned that he had psychosis. When they saw the mets in his brain, they gave him RT (radiation therapy).
Antipsychotic drugs are usually pretty hard to tolerate (side effects of one or the other). If it was my mother, and was satisfied, they'd ruled most of the above out, I'd want to make sure she was not spending too much time alone ruminating (worrying about things), on an antidepressant, eating as best as possible and out there with people of her age (if possible, along with a relative to watch over her) as often as possible, doing things she would enjoy and only put in nusing home and/or antipsychotics if those tactics didn't help.
I don't want to give you false hope, but I think it's fair to consider some other possible reasons first. Let us know, ok? Keep in touch, there's always a hug lurking around here. ( ( Suz ) ) ) J
clifto - 22 Jan 2006 20:14 GMT > http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2001/07_01/dharmarajan.htm > Vitamin B12 deficiency should be considered in the initial workup of > patients with dementia and psychiatric disorders (20,21). There's a nifty product we found. It's a powder that makes an energy drink. It's about $20 for 20 tubes at Costco; supposedly also available at GNC stores (probably more expensive there). No sugar, mostly vitamins; it supposedly supplies 41,667% of the RDA for B12. If mom has a B12 deficiency this should take care of it in short order.
IMHO it works better for an energy boost than Red Bull or its ilk, too.
 Signature If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination, my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.
Emily - 23 Jan 2006 00:09 GMT clifto@clifto.com said...
> > http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2001/07_01/dharmarajan.htm > > Vitamin B12 deficiency should be considered in the initial workup of [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > IMHO it works better for an energy boost than Red Bull or its ilk, too. There's always Marmite...
clifto - 23 Jan 2006 07:28 GMT > clifto@clifto.com said... >> > http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2001/07_01/dharmarajan.htm [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> > There's always Marmite... I think Marmite is one of those exclusively British things, like Vegemite is to Australia. I've never seen it over here on this side of the puddle.
 Signature If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination, my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.
SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 20:24 GMT J thank you for your references, and another point of view, as well as your warm thoughts. I will continue to explore all avenues re: B12, thyroid. My mom has no mental illness history or depression. She did the 30 days of high dose interferon and was in her 3rd week of getting it at home 3xs a week. I know for sure no drugs or alcohol are involved as I work with my mom in real estate and live a few doors away from her so we are very close and I see her daily. I watched this happen to her over a period of a week. Before surgery she walked up to 5 miles, 5 days a week, ate well and was in very good health. If family history counts for anything her parents are both 81, in fine health and living in their own home, they only gave up their snowmobiles last year. You guessed right, I am in Ontario a couple hours north of Toronto. My mom was going to a cancer care hospital in the city but since this happened she was committed involuntarily to a smaller local hospital, psych isolation unit. She is not suicidal just confused and frustrated. At the moment I have to wait until their (the docs) enforced, observation period is over before I can even get her out of the psychic unit. So at least another week of trying to be conciliatory to a group of people who are caring for her in ignorance of her medical condition. It has been a very frustrating experience, and we've lost faith in the medical profession and are learning to do our own research. My mom's melanoma was misdiagnosed 2xs and she lost a year because of that. She felt more reassured once she was in the care of specialists but then they administered a drug that they did not understand entirely or give us full information on. The psych docs say she is acting paranoid and won't take her meds unless a family member checks them first. If they actually read the file they'd understand this isn't paranoia its a fairly reasonable response given her recent encounters with doctors. Thanks for listening to the vent. I will check out your info and keep advocating for my mom.
SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 20:29 GMT J thank you for your references, and another point of view, as well as your warm thoughts. I will continue to explore all avenues re: B12, thyroid. My mom has no mental illness history or depression. She did the 30 days of high dose interferon and was in her 3rd week of getting it at home 3xs a week. I know for sure no drugs or alcohol are involved as I work with my mom in real estate and live a few doors away from her so we are very close and I see her daily. I watched this happen to her over a period of a week. Before surgery she walked up to 5 miles, 5 days a week, ate well and was in very good health. If family history counts for anything her parents are both 81, in fine health and living in their own home, they only gave up their snowmobiles last year. You guessed right, I am in Ontario a couple hours north of Toronto. My mom was going to a cancer care hospital in the city but since this happened she was committed involuntarily to a smaller local hospital, psych isolation unit. She is not suicidal just confused and frustrated. At the moment I have to wait until their (the docs) enforced, observation period is over before I can even get her out of the psychic unit. So at least another week of trying to be conciliatory to a group of people who are caring for her in ignorance of her medical condition. It has been a very frustrating experience, and we've lost faith in the medical profession and are learning to do our own research. My mom's melanoma was misdiagnosed 2xs and she lost a year because of that. She felt more reassured once she was in the care of specialists but then they administered a drug that they did not understand entirely or give us full information on. The psych docs say she is acting paranoid and won't take her meds unless a family member checks them first. If they actually read the file they'd understand this isn't paranoia its a fairly reasonable response given her recent encounters with doctors. Thanks for listening to the vent. I will check out your info and keep advocating for my mom.
J - 22 Jan 2006 23:12 GMT Hello Suz,
Sorry I snipped all your text, worked my way backwards on the reply and ended up at the top of your post.
I thought the mandatory is 48 hours but they try to keep them longer, while they adjust/watch to see if the medication needs adjusting. There's usually an ombudsman - ask for such, especially if your mother has not signed a paper saying you have permission to talk (in depth) with the psychiatrist. Ombudsman might be able to get you in quicker to see a psychiatrist to ask for an MRI (and the other testing - longshots).
20 years ago, they did do MRI's in psych evaluations. And possibly that same week - I can't remember the timeline. A friend of mine didn't find out about it, until she went in to the "ombudman's", got the paper signed (patient signs permission for relative to interface with psych doctors and access to medical file info), booked an appointment with the psychiatrist and went in ranting that there might be a misdiagnosis (with a list of things to be checked for). Then found out that an MRI had been done and the findings were discussed.
She had seen a psychiatrist upon the loved ones hospitalization but the problem then was that she didn't know the questions to ask (nor his or her rights). As it turns out, the diagnosis was correct but the prognosis wasn't. Things improved on the right meds.
There have been recent changes to "psych" in Ontario and perhaps across Canada (cutbacks, closings etc). But I am not up to date on them. You might be able to check her out of there earlier, but if you want to push for an MRI through them, you may have to leave her there while you sort some things out (also see bleow for more reasons to keep her there for the time being) . I'm reading that MRI's are (no longer) than 20 weeks (in Ontario) - that was 2004. I don't know if you can get one faster through the onc or through the psych hospital. Yours to inquire. http://www.canceradvocacy.ca/reportcard/2004/cancer-advocacy-coalition-report-ca rd-2004.pdf
Interferon is experimental. You realize that? <http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/HPI/CancerManagementGuidelines/Skin/Melanoma/Managemen tPolicies/RecurrentandorMetastaticDisease.htm>
Interferon has shown some modest activity in malignant melanoma. The single agent response rate is less than for DTIC (15%) and there is significant associated toxicity.
<http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/HPI/CancerManagementGuidelines/Skin/Melanoma/Managemen tPolicies/MalignantMelanoma.htm>
High dose interferon (SMAJIFN) has been shown to be associated with a prolongation in time to subsequent relapse in patients with palpable regional node involvement at diagnosis or at recurrence (Kirkwood JM, et al. J Clin Oncol 1996;14:7-17, J Clin Oncol 2000;18:2444-58, J Clin Oncol 2001;19:2370-80). High dose interferon should only be given after regional lymph node dissection and to patients with no residual locoregional disease.
Low dose interferon treatment has been reported to be associated with a decreased relapse rate in intermediate risk and high risk melanoma but with no overall survival benefit. The improvement reported in relapse-free survival has not been found consistently in all clinical trials. In addition the optimum schedule and duration of treatment are controversial. Interferon treatment, even at low dose is associated with significant side effects. The Cancer agency does not currently recommend low dose interferon treatment./end quoted text/.
A _low dose_ Clonazepam won't hurt her. I'm on .5mg It can make me drowsy for a few hours. Zyprexa ( Olanzapine ) http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/olanzapine_ids.htm for Anxiety, bipolar, agitation. (if she starts being too drowsy, ask that they cut some back, as long as she sleeps at night.
Sounds like what you described (below).
From your first post.
> > Recently her behaviour changed dramatically and has > > shown many different personality traits, such as talking excessively, > > loudly, inappropriate comments, insomnia, excessive energy and general > > mania. Doctors have diagnosed it as agitated depression, You may wish her to be there, while you work on getting the MRI or lumbar puncture through that hospital and while bad news is being delivered and meds adjusted, if and as required. It would also give her body time to possibly recover from the IFN treatments. Tell her calming things and ask her to stay calm (otherwise they might increase the meds), while you see if the meds can be adjusted a bit and while you try to get testing. If they can't do the lumbar puncture and when you're talking with the oncologist, talk about RT and/or steroids as well.
Suz, I don't like psychiatrists nor psychologists, but it does sound to me that your mother's in the best place for both of you at the moment, while you get some things sorted out and that they may be giving her exactly what is needed, barring some adjustments.
(you and she may not like the answers from the testing nor what I'm posting here).
I do not know what meds my cousin was on, but he was in a nursing home for a while around the time that his brain mets were diagnosed. It may be that he was having similar symptoms. His sister does not talk about that nor has she told me what treatment he had except that it was expensive ( she said they had to fight for the government to cover it) and experimental. Despite being on it, his cancer progressed. And he had the RT once the lesions were seen in the brain. From thereon, it was all about quality of life, not aggressive treatments. She's called, written, emailed (telling me bits of information in each) and it was all about quality of life the last 4 or 5 months.
I'm sorry. When I reread your first post here, I don't think the interferon was helping her at all. So it's leave her there to see if the meds and her body recovering from the IFN treatments help while you try to find out if there's brain mets. If there's brain mets, you'll be talking to a radiation oncologist as to when is the best time to deliver RT. Part of that may depend on how well she adjusts on her current medications as to whether you want to leave as is and until she worsens.
I'm sorry. This must be awful disappointing for, but do hope answers can be found. Stay with us and let us know how she and you are doing. J I'm sorry if this seems disjointed. My cat's been interfering with my typing and rereading. Time for a break !
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