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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / January 2006

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mania and interferon experience

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SuzanneMc - 21 Jan 2006 04:57 GMT
Hi I'm a caregiver looking for anyone with insight on interferon side
effects.  My mom is currently in a psychiatric ward after experiencing
extreme manic and psychotic symptoms brought on by reduction in her
interferon dose.(she was in her 7th week)  I'm very afraid because her
doctors say they have never seen this and don't know how long it will
last, possibly months and they don't know that it is reversible for
sure.  I did find case history's in some medical studies and there are
some cautions on the product packaging but we were only provided that
information after the fact.  I would love to hear from anyone who has
heard of this type of reaction.

Thnaks Suz
Steph - 21 Jan 2006 06:46 GMT
> Hi I'm a caregiver looking for anyone with insight on interferon side
> effects.  My mom is currently in a psychiatric ward after experiencing
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Thnaks Suz

Didn't we already ask if a brain CT or MRI has been done?
SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 03:04 GMT
Yes and thanks for your suggestion.  A CT scan has already been done
and brain mets has been ruled out.  The docs are saying that this is a
drug induced mood disorder brought on by the change in dosage of
interferon.  At the moment treating the psychosis has become the
primary concern and all cancer related care has stopped. What I really
want to know is how long this condition will last.  Her docs say they
don't have any experience with this I'm hoping some survivors or
caregivers do.  The initial condition was Clarks VI melanoma on the
thigh that had spread to lymph nodes in the groin.  After surgery, skin
grafts and lymphedema were problematic but this psychosis is not
something we were prepared for.
Steph - 22 Jan 2006 08:39 GMT
> Yes and thanks for your suggestion.  A CT scan has already been done
> and brain mets has been ruled out.

The CT scan is negative. That does not mean brain mets are ruled
out..........
It is by FAR the likeliest explanantion

> The docs are saying that this is a
> drug induced mood disorder brought on by the change in dosage of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> grafts and lymphedema were problematic but this psychosis is not
> something we were prepared for.
J - 22 Jan 2006 09:41 GMT
> "SuzanneMc" <suzannemc@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> ...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> out..........
> It is by FAR the likeliest explanantion

Likely but to a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
Wouldn't cost the system much to check and treat, if applicable, for B12
level and thyroid.
(she's posting from Canada, likely Ont)

J

> > The docs are saying that this is a
> > drug induced mood disorder brought on by the change in dosage of
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> > grafts and lymphedema were problematic but this psychosis is not
> > something we were prepared for.
SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 19:19 GMT
Steph, you seem to be very succint in your reply.  Do you know if there
is a definitive way to rule out brain mets?  I'm looking for the best
outcome I can get for mom and the more information I can get the
better.  Currently the onc. is saying he believes that the psychosis is
related to the interferon but because he hasn't seen this before he
advised the psych. to treat the psychosis as if cancer and interferon
were not present.  Accordingly she was put on clonazepam (an anti
anxiety) and zyprexa (an anti psychotic)  The psych is now her primary
doc so he oredered and reviewed the CT scan It seems the onc. has
washed his hands of this mess.
Steph - 22 Jan 2006 20:10 GMT
> Steph, you seem to be very succint in your reply.  Do you know if there
> is a definitive way to rule out brain mets?  I'm looking for the best
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> doc so he oredered and reviewed the CT scan It seems the onc. has
> washed his hands of this mess.

Common things are common, rare things are rare.
More than 50% of patients with high risk deep melanomas get brain mets at
some time.
CT scans are not 100% accurate.
An MRI or a lumbar puncture may clarify.
The treatment she's getting may be appropriate, but if she has brain mets,
some radiotherapy and or steroids may help
SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 19:21 GMT
Steph, you seem to be very succint in your reply.  Do you know if there
is a definitive way to rule out brain mets?  I'm looking for the best
outcome I can get for mom and the more information I can get the
better.  Currently the onc. is saying he believes that the psychosis is
related to the interferon but because he hasn't seen this before he
advised the psych. to treat the psychosis as if cancer and interferon
were not present.  Accordingly she was put on clonazepam (an anti
anxiety) and zyprexa (an anti psychotic)  The psych is now her primary
doc so he oredered and reviewed the CT scan It seems the onc. has
washed his hands of this mess.
J - 21 Jan 2006 09:29 GMT
> Hi I'm a caregiver looking for anyone with insight on interferon side
> effects.  My mom is currently in a psychiatric ward after experiencing
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> information after the fact.  I would love to hear from anyone who has
> heard of this type of reaction.

Hello and welcome Suz.
What type of cancer did she have?
I think interferon is used for kidney and myeloma (possibly melanoma and
others).
Get her B12 levels checked and let us know what head scans she's had.
J
SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 03:15 GMT
Thank you.  My mom had a Clarks VI melanoma on her thigh which spread
to lymph nodes in her groin.  She had skin grafts and lyphedema
problems after surgery but was doing well mentally and had a positive
outlook when the psychosis set in suddenly.  She has had a CT scan done
and brain mets was ruled out.  They are calling this a drug induced
mood disorder.  How are B12 levels related?  I'll certainly ask about
them.
Suz
J - 22 Jan 2006 10:29 GMT
> Thank you.  My mom had a Clarks VI melanoma on her thigh which spread
> to lymph nodes in her groin.  She had skin grafts and lyphedema
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> them.
> Suz

I'd ask about B12 and thyroid.
Anyone really can have what they call a psychotic break.
Happened to my grandmother, after she'd been living alone for a while.
We went to visit her and she was sitting there cutting up paper into little
pieces and wsan't making much sense at all.
We called my aunt (her adult daughter), consulted doctor and decided she
should be placed in a nursing home. At that time, I never thought to ask
about thyroid nor B12 and I don't know if that was found later.
There's also "hardening of the arteries" that can affect the brain.
anyway, some years later, we had a family gathering and she was sharp as a
tack. ( back to her old self, although older).  Some people can slip into
depression and eventually psychosis.

So this mayo blurb (below) tells me to rule out drugs, alcohol (and some
people are especially good at hiding alcohol use) - an ex-neighbor of mine
comes to mind. She had bottles hidden all over the home and I really don't
think her husband clued in. She'd wait until he left, then have some
delivered by taxi. Even when I was there, if she thought I was busy doing
something, she'd turn her back to me, bend over, grab a bottle, down some,
then put the bottle back and continue talking like nothing happened. I saw
it, numerous times.
Mayo also mentions thyroid.
And autoimmune disease.
I don't know all autimmune diseases, but apparently in Lupus, psychosis can
occur. A quebecer told us that his wife was diagnosed with psychosis and
was in hospital for months, but once she was diagnosed with Lupus and
treated for that, that cleared up and her psychosis wasn't a problem any
more.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/specialty-pharmacy/hepatitis.htm
Side Effects
Side effects from drug therapy include severe flulike symptoms from the
interferon and a temporary drop in hemoglobin (anemia), white cell or
platelet counts in your blood. Chronic side effects, which affect about
half of those receiving treatment with interferon-ribavirin, include
extreme fatigue, anxiety, irritability and depression. A small percentage
of people may experience psychosis or suicidal behavior.
Interferon is not recommended for people who have a history of major
depression. Those who have untreated thyroid disease, low blood cell counts
or autoimmune disease, or who drink alcohol or use drugs are also not good
candidates for this treatment.

http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2001/07_01/dharmarajan.htm
Vitamin B12 deficiency should be considered in the initial workup of
patients with dementia and psychiatric disorders (20,21).
Cerebral
Dementia, depression, memory loss, psychosis, cerebrovascular disease
(through high serum homocysteine levels)

Print that up and if she is low, tell them you want the injections. Some
people continue later on sublingual (under the tongue). Extra B pills don't
do it, because sometimes there's an absorption problem in the gastro
system, so injection is cheap and painless and once topped up, she can be
rechecked every six months and more injections, if necessary or continue an
injection monthly.

If you can't find the cause, then as Steph thinks, maybe it is the melanoma
and it's just not visible at this time. Which would say to me the
interferon isn't working.

My cousin died from melanoma spring/summer 2004. It was in his lungs, liver
and brain.
Nobody ever mentioned that he had psychosis. When they saw the mets in his
brain, they gave him RT (radiation therapy).

Antipsychotic drugs are usually pretty hard to tolerate (side effects of
one or the other).
If it was my mother, and was satisfied, they'd ruled most of the above out,
I'd want to make sure she was not spending too much time alone ruminating
(worrying about things), on an antidepressant, eating as best as possible
and out there with people of her age (if possible, along with a relative to
watch over her) as often as possible, doing things she would enjoy and only
put in nusing home and/or antipsychotics if those tactics didn't help.

I don't want to give you false hope, but I think it's fair to consider some
other possible reasons first.
Let us know, ok?
Keep in touch, there's always a hug lurking around here.
( ( Suz ) ) )
J
clifto - 22 Jan 2006 20:14 GMT
>  http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2001/07_01/dharmarajan.htm
>  Vitamin B12 deficiency should be considered in the initial workup of
> patients with dementia and psychiatric disorders (20,21).

There's a nifty product we found. It's a powder that makes an energy drink.
It's about $20 for 20 tubes at Costco; supposedly also available at GNC
stores (probably more expensive there). No sugar, mostly vitamins; it
supposedly supplies 41,667% of the RDA for B12. If mom has a B12 deficiency
this should take care of it in short order.

IMHO it works better for an energy boost than Red Bull or its ilk, too.

Signature

       If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
          my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

Emily - 23 Jan 2006 00:09 GMT
clifto@clifto.com said...
> >  http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2001/07_01/dharmarajan.htm
> >  Vitamin B12 deficiency should be considered in the initial workup of
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> IMHO it works better for an energy boost than Red Bull or its ilk, too.

There's always Marmite...
clifto - 23 Jan 2006 07:28 GMT
> clifto@clifto.com said...
>> >  http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/2001/07_01/dharmarajan.htm
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>>
> There's always Marmite...

I think Marmite is one of those exclusively British things, like Vegemite
is to Australia. I've never seen it over here on this side of the puddle.

Signature

       If John McCain gets the 2008 Republican Presidential nomination,
          my vote for President will be a write-in for Jiang Zemin.

SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 20:24 GMT
J
thank you for your references, and another point of view, as well as
your warm thoughts.  I will continue to explore all avenues re: B12,
thyroid.  My mom has no mental illness history or depression.  She did
the 30 days of high dose interferon and was in her 3rd week of getting
it at home 3xs a week.  I know for sure no drugs or alcohol are
involved as I work with my mom in real estate and live a few doors away
from her so we are very close and I see her daily. I watched this
happen to her over a period of a week.  Before surgery she walked up to
5 miles, 5 days a week, ate well and was in very good health.  If
family history counts for anything her parents are both 81, in fine
health and living in their own home, they only gave up their
snowmobiles last year.  You guessed right, I am in Ontario a couple
hours north of Toronto.  My mom was going to a cancer care hospital in
the city but since this happened she was committed involuntarily to a
smaller local hospital, psych isolation unit.  She is not suicidal just
confused and frustrated.  At the moment I have to wait until their (the
docs) enforced, observation period is over before I can even get her
out of the psychic unit.  So at least another week of trying to be
conciliatory to a group of people who are caring for her in ignorance
of her medical condition. It has been a very frustrating experience,
and we've lost faith in the medical profession and are learning to do
our own research.  My mom's melanoma was misdiagnosed 2xs and she lost
a year because of that.  She felt more reassured once she was in the
care of specialists but then they administered a drug that they did not
understand entirely or give us full information on.  The psych docs say
she is acting paranoid and won't take her meds unless a family member
checks them first.  If they actually read the file they'd understand
this isn't paranoia its a fairly reasonable response given her recent
encounters with doctors.  Thanks for listening to the vent.  I will
check out your info and keep advocating for my mom.
SuzanneMc - 22 Jan 2006 20:29 GMT
J
thank you for your references, and another point of view, as well as
your warm thoughts.  I will continue to explore all avenues re: B12,
thyroid.  My mom has no mental illness history or depression.  She did
the 30 days of high dose interferon and was in her 3rd week of getting
it at home 3xs a week.  I know for sure no drugs or alcohol are
involved as I work with my mom in real estate and live a few doors away
from her so we are very close and I see her daily. I watched this
happen to her over a period of a week.  Before surgery she walked up to
5 miles, 5 days a week, ate well and was in very good health.  If
family history counts for anything her parents are both 81, in fine
health and living in their own home, they only gave up their
snowmobiles last year.  You guessed right, I am in Ontario a couple
hours north of Toronto.  My mom was going to a cancer care hospital in
the city but since this happened she was committed involuntarily to a
smaller local hospital, psych isolation unit.  She is not suicidal just
confused and frustrated.  At the moment I have to wait until their (the
docs) enforced, observation period is over before I can even get her
out of the psychic unit.  So at least another week of trying to be
conciliatory to a group of people who are caring for her in ignorance
of her medical condition. It has been a very frustrating experience,
and we've lost faith in the medical profession and are learning to do
our own research.  My mom's melanoma was misdiagnosed 2xs and she lost
a year because of that.  She felt more reassured once she was in the
care of specialists but then they administered a drug that they did not
understand entirely or give us full information on.  The psych docs say
she is acting paranoid and won't take her meds unless a family member
checks them first.  If they actually read the file they'd understand
this isn't paranoia its a fairly reasonable response given her recent
encounters with doctors.  Thanks for listening to the vent.  I will
check out your info and keep advocating for my mom.
J - 22 Jan 2006 23:12 GMT
Hello Suz,

Sorry I snipped all your text, worked my way backwards on the reply and
ended up at the top of your post.

I thought the mandatory is 48 hours but they try to keep them longer, while
they adjust/watch to see if the medication needs adjusting.
There's usually an ombudsman - ask for such, especially if your mother has
not signed a paper saying you have permission to talk (in depth) with the
psychiatrist. Ombudsman might be able to get you in quicker to see a
psychiatrist to ask for an MRI (and the other testing - longshots).

20 years ago, they did do MRI's in psych evaluations. And possibly that
same week - I can't remember the timeline.
A friend of mine didn't find out about it, until she went in to the
"ombudman's", got the paper signed (patient signs permission for relative
to interface with psych doctors and access to medical file info), booked an
appointment with the psychiatrist and went in ranting that there might be a
misdiagnosis (with a list of things to be checked for). Then found out that
an MRI had been done and the findings were discussed.

She had seen a psychiatrist upon the loved ones hospitalization but the
problem then was that she didn't know the questions to ask (nor his or her
rights). As it turns out, the diagnosis was correct but the prognosis
wasn't. Things improved on the right meds.

There have been recent changes to "psych" in Ontario and perhaps across
Canada (cutbacks, closings etc).
But I am not up to date on them.
You might be able to check her out of there earlier, but if you want to
push for an MRI through them, you may have to leave her there while you
sort some things out (also see bleow for more reasons to keep her there for
the time being)
.
I'm reading that MRI's are (no longer) than 20 weeks (in Ontario)  - that
was 2004.
I don't know if you can get one faster through the onc or through the psych
hospital. Yours to inquire.
http://www.canceradvocacy.ca/reportcard/2004/cancer-advocacy-coalition-report-ca
rd-2004.pdf


Interferon is experimental. You realize that?
<http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/HPI/CancerManagementGuidelines/Skin/Melanoma/Managemen
tPolicies/RecurrentandorMetastaticDisease.htm
>

Interferon has shown some modest activity in malignant melanoma. The single
agent response rate is less than for DTIC (15%) and there is significant
associated toxicity.

<http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/HPI/CancerManagementGuidelines/Skin/Melanoma/Managemen
tPolicies/MalignantMelanoma.htm
>

High dose interferon (SMAJIFN) has been shown to be associated with a
prolongation in time to subsequent relapse in patients with palpable
regional node involvement at diagnosis or at recurrence (Kirkwood JM, et
al. J Clin Oncol 1996;14:7-17, J Clin Oncol 2000;18:2444-58, J Clin Oncol
2001;19:2370-80).  High dose interferon should only be given after regional
lymph node dissection and to patients with no residual locoregional
disease.

Low dose interferon treatment has been reported to be associated with a
decreased relapse rate in intermediate risk and high risk melanoma but with
no overall survival benefit. The improvement reported in relapse-free
survival has not been found consistently in all clinical trials. In
addition the optimum schedule and duration of treatment are controversial.
Interferon treatment, even at low dose is associated with significant side
effects. The Cancer agency does not currently recommend low dose interferon
treatment./end quoted text/.

A _low dose_ Clonazepam won't hurt her. I'm on .5mg  It can make me drowsy
for a few hours.
Zyprexa ( Olanzapine )
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/olanzapine_ids.htm for Anxiety, bipolar,
agitation.
(if she starts being too drowsy, ask that they cut some back, as long as
she sleeps at night.

Sounds like what you described (below).

From your first post.
> > Recently her behaviour changed dramatically and has
> > shown many different personality traits, such as talking excessively,
> > loudly, inappropriate comments, insomnia, excessive energy and general
> > mania.  Doctors have diagnosed it as agitated depression,

You may wish her to be there, while you work on getting the MRI  or lumbar
puncture through that hospital and while bad news is being delivered and
meds adjusted, if and as required. It would also give her body time to
possibly recover from the IFN treatments.  Tell her calming things and ask
her to stay calm (otherwise they might increase the meds), while you see if
the meds can be adjusted a bit and while you try to get testing.  If they
can't do the lumbar puncture and when you're talking with the oncologist,
talk about RT and/or steroids as well.

Suz, I don't like psychiatrists nor psychologists, but it does sound to me
that your mother's in the best place for both of you at the moment, while
you get some things sorted out and that they may be giving her exactly what
is needed, barring some adjustments.

(you and she may not like the answers from the testing nor what I'm posting
here).

I do not know what meds my cousin was on, but he was in a nursing home for
a while around the time that his brain mets were diagnosed. It may be that
he was having similar symptoms. His sister does not talk about that nor has
she told me what treatment he had except that it was expensive ( she said
they had to fight for the government to cover it) and experimental.
Despite being on it, his cancer progressed. And he had the RT once the
lesions were seen in the brain.  From thereon, it was all about quality of
life, not aggressive treatments. She's called, written, emailed (telling me
bits of information in each) and it was all about quality of life the last
4 or 5 months.

I'm sorry. When I reread your first post here, I don't think the interferon
was helping her at all.
So it's leave her there to see if the meds and her body recovering from the
IFN treatments help while you try to find out if there's brain mets.  If
there's brain mets, you'll be talking to a radiation oncologist as to when
is the best time to deliver RT. Part of that may depend on how well she
adjusts on her current medications as to whether you want to leave as is
and until she worsens.

I'm sorry. This must be awful disappointing for, but do hope answers can be
found.
Stay with us and let us know how she and you are doing.
J
I'm sorry if this seems disjointed. My cat's been interfering with my
typing and rereading. Time for a break !
 
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