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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / November 2005

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camptosar (irinotecan) and avastin

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J - 11 Nov 2005 20:47 GMT
Anybody out there been on the combination ?
And for how long?
What was the result?

Come in please.
A new poster is seeking input.
Thanks,
J
Belle Gin - 11 Nov 2005 23:05 GMT
> Anybody out there been on the combination ?
> And for how long?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Thanks,
> J

A family member is on this combo;  5 treatments total and has had three so
far.  Treatments are two weeks apart.  Belle
J - 12 Nov 2005 00:54 GMT
> A family member is on this combo;  5 treatments total and has had three so
> far.  Treatments are two weeks apart.  Belle

Thanks for youre reply, Belle Gin, colorectal right? your father?
5 treatments total doesn't seem too bad at all.

I just lucked out and found a Roche Acrobat file with common and less common
side effects of Avastin
http://www.rochecanada.com/pdf/avastinpiE.pdf
so you know what to watch for...
Strangely it says that "Drugs that may interact with AVASTIN include:
irinotecan"
Go figure...

and more on Avastin  - the half life is approximately 20 days, so I see why
it's given every 3 weeks.
I aslo note that there's two sized/dose? vials...
http://www.australianprescriber.com/index.php?content=/magazines/vol28no4/104_10
6_newdrugs.htm


Bevacizumab Avastin (Roche)
100 mg/4 mL and 400 mg/16 mL in single-dose vials

Bevacizumab is a genetically engineered humanised monoclonal antibody against
vascular endothelial growth factor. By binding to the growth factor,
bevacizumab prevents it from binding to endothelial receptors.

In a study of 104 untreated patients with metastatic colorectal cancer
bevacizumab was used in combination with fluorouracil and folinic acid. High
and low doses of bevacizumab were tested in this regimen. The response rate,
as judged by changes in tumour size, was 24% with the high dose regimen and
40% with the low dose regimen. This gave the low dose regimen a statistically
significant advantage over the 17% response rate seen in a control group of
patients who received fluorouracil and folinic acid alone. Compared to the
control group, patients given the combination containing the low dose of
bevacizumab also had a significantly longer median time before their cancers
progressed (9 versus 5.2 months). Their median survival was 21.5 months
compared to 13.8 months in the control group.1

Following this trial, the low dose of bevacizumab (5 mg/kg) was studied in
addition to a regimen containing irinotecan, fluorouracil and folinic acid.
The four drugs were given to 402 patients with previously untreated metastatic
disease and the results were compared with those of 411 patients given the
three-drug regimen plus a placebo. Overall the response rate was 44.8% in the
bevacizumab group and 34.8% in the control group. The progression-free
survival was 10.6 months with bevacizumab compared with 6.2 months. There was
also a significant difference in median survival time; 20.3 months in the
bevacizumab group versus 15.6 months in the control group.2

Bevacizumab has to be diluted and given as a slow intravenous infusion once
every 14 days. The antibody has a half-life of approximately 20 days.

Although bevacizumab improves survival by a few months it increases the risks
of adverse effects. In the phase 3 trial there were significantly more serious
adverse events in the patients taking the bevacizumab regimen than in those
taking irinotecan, fluorouracil and folinic acid (84.9% versus 74%).
Bevacizumab was associated with increased leucopenia, diarrhoea and
hypertension.2

Although there is a risk of venous and arterial thrombosis, including stroke
and myocardial infarction, there is also a risk of fatal haemorrhage in
patients taking regimens that include bevacizumab. The gut perforations which
can occur with bevacizumab2 may also be fatal. As wound healing may be
affected, treatment should not begin until at least a month after surgery.
Proteinuria is another problem and if the nephrotic syndrome develops
treatment should be stopped. Congestive cardiac failure has also been
reported.

Bevacizumab is approved for use with fluorouracil and folinic acid, or with
fluorouracil, folinic acid and irinotecan. [end quote]

And to answer my own question: Avastin disrupts the process of new blood
vessel formation (on a different web page), so I think we have enough
information now on Avastin.

Best wishes to your father; some colorectal patients seem to do quite well,
for a number of years.
J
turtletrot1 - 12 Nov 2005 05:58 GMT
J.  You are aware that they stopped the clinical trial with Avastin and
breast cancer because of the high incident of perrforation of the
colon!  And you may recall that this is what did Frani in....from there
on it was downhill all the way.  I am wondering if the data for the
trial on ntastasized colorectal was skewed!  His Avastin was in the
FOLFOX7 protocol.
And reference to your other response,  there was no problem with a
tumor interfering with the colon.  He had a sigmoid solostomy.  The
tumor had been in the rectum as was the recurrent.  Following that the
recftum, etc was removed.  The second recurrence was somewhere down
lower in the abdomen.  It is also onteresting to note that after both
surgeries, all the edges were clean, the CEA was 0. The second surgery
after the first recurrence followed a regimen of Xeloda and  IMRT
radiation.  When they went in there was no sign of tumor.  It is the
"seeds" that can be out there that are undetecftable that  make this
disease so hard to control.
Evertyhing here In Germany is still green.  Although we are as far
north as Greenalnd, the gulf stream keeps us moderate for the most
part.

> > A family member is on this combo;  5 treatments total and has had three so
> > far.  Treatments are two weeks apart.  Belle
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
> for a number of years.
> J
J - 12 Nov 2005 19:35 GMT
> J.  You are aware that they stopped the clinical trial with Avastin and
> breast cancer because of the high incident of perrforation of the
> colon!

No, I did not know that. Where do you get this information? (ie source)
1) Patients read/hear the warnings and think "that won't happen to me".
2) This seems to be the latest http://www.nci.nih.gov/newscenter/pressreleases/AvastinBreast
They always seem to mention percentages of time to progression or "response", but never mention how
many died or dropped out or had complications; (ie the bad side of treatments and individual
experiences)
On the face of it, those who achieved 4+ extra months might have been satisfied, but we don't know
what quality of life they experienced, due to side effects. And we don't know how many had regrets
and thought  (too late) they might have been better enjoying quality of life and seeking palliative
care, as required, instead.

> And you may recall that this is what did Frani in....from there
> on it was downhill all the way.  I am wondering if the data for the
> trial on ntastasized colorectal was skewed!  His Avastin was in the
> FOLFOX7 protocol.

Well, I have a distrust of trials sponsored by the pharmaceuticals, but there's details lacking (in
my opinion) on all clinical trials, but all parties involved (pharmaceuticals, NCI, FDA etc) are
under pressure from current cancer patients to "find something new' when they've exhausted existing
treatments.

I've snipped a bunch.
Turletrot, if you think you may be here longterm, perhaps you would consider creating a blog such as
Penny did. A timeline of Franzi's cancer, surgeries and treatments, because I'm so confused as to
what happened and when.

It's nice here as well; green. Send us the gulf stream for December through March, please. :)
Hugs
J
turtletrot1 - 12 Nov 2005 05:58 GMT
J.  You are aware that they stopped the clinical trial with Avastin and
breast cancer because of the high incident of perrforation of the
colon!  And you may recall that this is what did Frani in....from there
on it was downhill all the way.  I am wondering if the data for the
trial on ntastasized colorectal was skewed!  His Avastin was in the
FOLFOX7 protocol.
And reference to your other response,  there was no problem with a
tumor interfering with the colon.  He had a sigmoid solostomy.  The
tumor had been in the rectum as was the recurrent.  Following that the
recftum, etc was removed.  The second recurrence was somewhere down
lower in the abdomen.  It is also onteresting to note that after both
surgeries, all the edges were clean, the CEA was 0. The second surgery
after the first recurrence followed a regimen of Xeloda and  IMRT
radiation.  When they went in there was no sign of tumor.  It is the
"seeds" that can be out there that are undetecftable that  make this
disease so hard to control.
Evertyhing here In Germany is still green.  Although we are as far
north as Greenalnd, the gulf stream keeps us moderate for the most
part.

> > A family member is on this combo;  5 treatments total and has had three so
> > far.  Treatments are two weeks apart.  Belle
[quoted text clipped - 73 lines]
> for a number of years.
> J
46erjoe - 13 Nov 2005 01:07 GMT
I'm on this regimen.

Up to beginning it, my tumors were showing SLOW growth with other
drugs. After 2 months of this new regimen, tumors showed NO growth. So
my onc took me off ALL chemo treatments.

It did destroy all my scalp hair follicles however. Previous regimens
did not. Side effects were no different than other chemo regimens but
the new regimen doesn't give me neurapathy. A fair trade!

>Anybody out there been on the combination ?
>And for how long?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>Thanks,
>J
AR George - 28 Nov 2005 10:46 GMT
> Anybody out there been on the combination ?
> And for how long?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Thanks,
> J

This last round of chemo was this combo, with 5FU and the other standard
chemicals.   9 treatments in this cycle.   I go for a CT/PET scan 12/1 to see
how it has worked.

Had a tough met in the liver that returned after last liver resection, seems
to have been resolved just after treatment 7.   Had a 1 cm lesion on the lung
that has shrunk from 6.5 cm over the course of the treatment.   While talking
with a radiologist about radio frequency ablation he said he wanted to wait
and see if that lesion resolved by 12/1, before making any plans to do the
R/F ablation procedure.

The Irinotecan did cause nausea and temporary loss of my voice, when previous
treatments had just produced a bit.  There was no increase in peripheral
neruopathy, as in the previous round.   On the whole I preferred the
irinotecan.

Any other questions?

George
J - 28 Nov 2005 11:01 GMT
> This last round of chemo was this combo, with 5FU and the other standard
> chemicals.   9 treatments in this cycle.   I go for a CT/PET scan 12/1 to see
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> neruopathy, as in the previous round.   On the whole I preferred the
> irinotecan.

Thanks Goerge. You guys are the best. I forget who was asking now, but is surely
reading your experiences.

> Any other questions?

Is US Thanksgiving over? I'd like to start a roll call.
Hopefully we'll have your Dec 1st update in it, as well.
hugs from me to you,
J
AR George - 28 Nov 2005 11:42 GMT
>> This last round of chemo was this combo, with 5FU and the other standard
>> chemicals.   9 treatments in this cycle.   I go for a CT/PET scan 12/1 to
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> hugs from me to you,
> J

J,

Yup, the Thanksgiving holiday is over.   Monday is usually a day with lots of
'net activity, folks doing their Christmas shopping.

I have to wait until the 19th to talk to my docs about the results of the
scans and bloodwork, but I'm feeling pretty good.   My mind snapped back on
about a week and a half ago, being reminded what it is like to be able to
think clearly again and be able to remember.

Hugs to you as well.

George
J - 28 Nov 2005 21:05 GMT
> >> Any other questions?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Hugs to you as well.

Thanks for the hugs, George.
Well I got it all wrong.
I thought the big shopping time was last week and this past weekend.

It's good to read that you're thinking clearly again and feeling pretty good.
Good to have you back here as well. :)
Thanks for the information, George.
Hugs
J
AR George - 28 Nov 2005 22:28 GMT
>>>> Any other questions?
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
> Hugs
> J

Sorry I wasn't clear.   The shopping in physical stores big event, we call it
Black Friday, is the Friday after our Thanksgiving.   There is a phenomenon
that has showed up in the last couple of years where people go online,
usually at their workplaces, the monday after and get the last of the deals
offered at internet stores, I don't know what monday is called.

I did forget one thing, high blood pressure.   It is fairly common that
irinotecan raises one's blood pressure, it did for me and I had to start
taking a pill to counteract the effect.   I had to watch getting up quickly
or turning suddenly, but that was a minor consideration.

Hugs.

George
J - 29 Nov 2005 10:31 GMT
> Sorry I wasn't clear.   The shopping in physical stores big event, we call it
> Black Friday, is the Friday after our Thanksgiving.   There is a phenomenon
> that has showed up in the last couple of years where people go online,
> usually at their workplaces, the monday after and get the last of the deals
> offered at internet stores, I don't know what monday is called.

hello George, I'm sorry to put you through this.
It's all my fault. I only get 3 TV stations now. I used to know what's happening in
the US from the TV. They often showed crowds on "Black Friday", but due to
newsgroup posts wishing Happy Thanksgiving 2 weeks ago, I got confused and thought
it was earlier until I saw Araik's post on Thursday and checked my calendar.
all this to say I was delaying the rollcall until after thanksgiving and thought
gee, the "Happy Thanksgiving"s" on other newsgroups are continuing, when will it
ever end <g>
And now you tell me that the shopping will continue, so I'd best quit finding
excuses and just run a roll call and those who are too busy with shopping will
catch up with us later.
Thanks for explaining.
Excuses over, I've started a roll call.

> I did forget one thing, high blood pressure.   It is fairly common that
> irinotecan raises one's blood pressure, it did for me and I had to start
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> George

Thank you for the additional information.
I found the lady who was asking. Perhaps she's following along.
Hopefully we'll hear from her in the roll call.

And George, I'm sending all my best possible wishes (to you) for the 19th (test
results).
Hugs
J
 
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