Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / November 2005
camptosar (irinotecan) and avastin
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J - 11 Nov 2005 20:47 GMT Anybody out there been on the combination ? And for how long? What was the result?
Come in please. A new poster is seeking input. Thanks, J
Belle Gin - 11 Nov 2005 23:05 GMT > Anybody out there been on the combination ? > And for how long? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > J A family member is on this combo; 5 treatments total and has had three so far. Treatments are two weeks apart. Belle
J - 12 Nov 2005 00:54 GMT > A family member is on this combo; 5 treatments total and has had three so > far. Treatments are two weeks apart. Belle Thanks for youre reply, Belle Gin, colorectal right? your father? 5 treatments total doesn't seem too bad at all.
I just lucked out and found a Roche Acrobat file with common and less common side effects of Avastin http://www.rochecanada.com/pdf/avastinpiE.pdf so you know what to watch for... Strangely it says that "Drugs that may interact with AVASTIN include: irinotecan" Go figure...
and more on Avastin - the half life is approximately 20 days, so I see why it's given every 3 weeks. I aslo note that there's two sized/dose? vials... http://www.australianprescriber.com/index.php?content=/magazines/vol28no4/104_10 6_newdrugs.htm
Bevacizumab Avastin (Roche) 100 mg/4 mL and 400 mg/16 mL in single-dose vials
Bevacizumab is a genetically engineered humanised monoclonal antibody against vascular endothelial growth factor. By binding to the growth factor, bevacizumab prevents it from binding to endothelial receptors.
In a study of 104 untreated patients with metastatic colorectal cancer bevacizumab was used in combination with fluorouracil and folinic acid. High and low doses of bevacizumab were tested in this regimen. The response rate, as judged by changes in tumour size, was 24% with the high dose regimen and 40% with the low dose regimen. This gave the low dose regimen a statistically significant advantage over the 17% response rate seen in a control group of patients who received fluorouracil and folinic acid alone. Compared to the control group, patients given the combination containing the low dose of bevacizumab also had a significantly longer median time before their cancers progressed (9 versus 5.2 months). Their median survival was 21.5 months compared to 13.8 months in the control group.1
Following this trial, the low dose of bevacizumab (5 mg/kg) was studied in addition to a regimen containing irinotecan, fluorouracil and folinic acid. The four drugs were given to 402 patients with previously untreated metastatic disease and the results were compared with those of 411 patients given the three-drug regimen plus a placebo. Overall the response rate was 44.8% in the bevacizumab group and 34.8% in the control group. The progression-free survival was 10.6 months with bevacizumab compared with 6.2 months. There was also a significant difference in median survival time; 20.3 months in the bevacizumab group versus 15.6 months in the control group.2
Bevacizumab has to be diluted and given as a slow intravenous infusion once every 14 days. The antibody has a half-life of approximately 20 days.
Although bevacizumab improves survival by a few months it increases the risks of adverse effects. In the phase 3 trial there were significantly more serious adverse events in the patients taking the bevacizumab regimen than in those taking irinotecan, fluorouracil and folinic acid (84.9% versus 74%). Bevacizumab was associated with increased leucopenia, diarrhoea and hypertension.2
Although there is a risk of venous and arterial thrombosis, including stroke and myocardial infarction, there is also a risk of fatal haemorrhage in patients taking regimens that include bevacizumab. The gut perforations which can occur with bevacizumab2 may also be fatal. As wound healing may be affected, treatment should not begin until at least a month after surgery. Proteinuria is another problem and if the nephrotic syndrome develops treatment should be stopped. Congestive cardiac failure has also been reported.
Bevacizumab is approved for use with fluorouracil and folinic acid, or with fluorouracil, folinic acid and irinotecan. [end quote]
And to answer my own question: Avastin disrupts the process of new blood vessel formation (on a different web page), so I think we have enough information now on Avastin.
Best wishes to your father; some colorectal patients seem to do quite well, for a number of years. J
turtletrot1 - 12 Nov 2005 05:58 GMT J. You are aware that they stopped the clinical trial with Avastin and breast cancer because of the high incident of perrforation of the colon! And you may recall that this is what did Frani in....from there on it was downhill all the way. I am wondering if the data for the trial on ntastasized colorectal was skewed! His Avastin was in the FOLFOX7 protocol. And reference to your other response, there was no problem with a tumor interfering with the colon. He had a sigmoid solostomy. The tumor had been in the rectum as was the recurrent. Following that the recftum, etc was removed. The second recurrence was somewhere down lower in the abdomen. It is also onteresting to note that after both surgeries, all the edges were clean, the CEA was 0. The second surgery after the first recurrence followed a regimen of Xeloda and IMRT radiation. When they went in there was no sign of tumor. It is the "seeds" that can be out there that are undetecftable that make this disease so hard to control. Evertyhing here In Germany is still green. Although we are as far north as Greenalnd, the gulf stream keeps us moderate for the most part.
> > A family member is on this combo; 5 treatments total and has had three so > > far. Treatments are two weeks apart. Belle [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > for a number of years. > J J - 12 Nov 2005 19:35 GMT > J. You are aware that they stopped the clinical trial with Avastin and > breast cancer because of the high incident of perrforation of the > colon! No, I did not know that. Where do you get this information? (ie source) 1) Patients read/hear the warnings and think "that won't happen to me". 2) This seems to be the latest http://www.nci.nih.gov/newscenter/pressreleases/AvastinBreast They always seem to mention percentages of time to progression or "response", but never mention how many died or dropped out or had complications; (ie the bad side of treatments and individual experiences) On the face of it, those who achieved 4+ extra months might have been satisfied, but we don't know what quality of life they experienced, due to side effects. And we don't know how many had regrets and thought (too late) they might have been better enjoying quality of life and seeking palliative care, as required, instead.
> And you may recall that this is what did Frani in....from there > on it was downhill all the way. I am wondering if the data for the > trial on ntastasized colorectal was skewed! His Avastin was in the > FOLFOX7 protocol. Well, I have a distrust of trials sponsored by the pharmaceuticals, but there's details lacking (in my opinion) on all clinical trials, but all parties involved (pharmaceuticals, NCI, FDA etc) are under pressure from current cancer patients to "find something new' when they've exhausted existing treatments.
I've snipped a bunch. Turletrot, if you think you may be here longterm, perhaps you would consider creating a blog such as Penny did. A timeline of Franzi's cancer, surgeries and treatments, because I'm so confused as to what happened and when.
It's nice here as well; green. Send us the gulf stream for December through March, please. :) Hugs J
turtletrot1 - 12 Nov 2005 05:58 GMT J. You are aware that they stopped the clinical trial with Avastin and breast cancer because of the high incident of perrforation of the colon! And you may recall that this is what did Frani in....from there on it was downhill all the way. I am wondering if the data for the trial on ntastasized colorectal was skewed! His Avastin was in the FOLFOX7 protocol. And reference to your other response, there was no problem with a tumor interfering with the colon. He had a sigmoid solostomy. The tumor had been in the rectum as was the recurrent. Following that the recftum, etc was removed. The second recurrence was somewhere down lower in the abdomen. It is also onteresting to note that after both surgeries, all the edges were clean, the CEA was 0. The second surgery after the first recurrence followed a regimen of Xeloda and IMRT radiation. When they went in there was no sign of tumor. It is the "seeds" that can be out there that are undetecftable that make this disease so hard to control. Evertyhing here In Germany is still green. Although we are as far north as Greenalnd, the gulf stream keeps us moderate for the most part.
> > A family member is on this combo; 5 treatments total and has had three so > > far. Treatments are two weeks apart. Belle [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > for a number of years. > J 46erjoe - 13 Nov 2005 01:07 GMT I'm on this regimen.
Up to beginning it, my tumors were showing SLOW growth with other drugs. After 2 months of this new regimen, tumors showed NO growth. So my onc took me off ALL chemo treatments.
It did destroy all my scalp hair follicles however. Previous regimens did not. Side effects were no different than other chemo regimens but the new regimen doesn't give me neurapathy. A fair trade!
>Anybody out there been on the combination ? >And for how long? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Thanks, >J AR George - 28 Nov 2005 10:46 GMT > Anybody out there been on the combination ? > And for how long? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks, > J This last round of chemo was this combo, with 5FU and the other standard chemicals. 9 treatments in this cycle. I go for a CT/PET scan 12/1 to see how it has worked.
Had a tough met in the liver that returned after last liver resection, seems to have been resolved just after treatment 7. Had a 1 cm lesion on the lung that has shrunk from 6.5 cm over the course of the treatment. While talking with a radiologist about radio frequency ablation he said he wanted to wait and see if that lesion resolved by 12/1, before making any plans to do the R/F ablation procedure.
The Irinotecan did cause nausea and temporary loss of my voice, when previous treatments had just produced a bit. There was no increase in peripheral neruopathy, as in the previous round. On the whole I preferred the irinotecan.
Any other questions?
George
J - 28 Nov 2005 11:01 GMT > This last round of chemo was this combo, with 5FU and the other standard > chemicals. 9 treatments in this cycle. I go for a CT/PET scan 12/1 to see [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > neruopathy, as in the previous round. On the whole I preferred the > irinotecan. Thanks Goerge. You guys are the best. I forget who was asking now, but is surely reading your experiences.
> Any other questions? Is US Thanksgiving over? I'd like to start a roll call. Hopefully we'll have your Dec 1st update in it, as well. hugs from me to you, J
AR George - 28 Nov 2005 11:42 GMT >> This last round of chemo was this combo, with 5FU and the other standard >> chemicals. 9 treatments in this cycle. I go for a CT/PET scan 12/1 to [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > hugs from me to you, > J J,
Yup, the Thanksgiving holiday is over. Monday is usually a day with lots of 'net activity, folks doing their Christmas shopping.
I have to wait until the 19th to talk to my docs about the results of the scans and bloodwork, but I'm feeling pretty good. My mind snapped back on about a week and a half ago, being reminded what it is like to be able to think clearly again and be able to remember.
Hugs to you as well.
George
J - 28 Nov 2005 21:05 GMT > >> Any other questions? > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Hugs to you as well. Thanks for the hugs, George. Well I got it all wrong. I thought the big shopping time was last week and this past weekend.
It's good to read that you're thinking clearly again and feeling pretty good. Good to have you back here as well. :) Thanks for the information, George. Hugs J
AR George - 28 Nov 2005 22:28 GMT >>>> Any other questions? >>> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > Hugs > J Sorry I wasn't clear. The shopping in physical stores big event, we call it Black Friday, is the Friday after our Thanksgiving. There is a phenomenon that has showed up in the last couple of years where people go online, usually at their workplaces, the monday after and get the last of the deals offered at internet stores, I don't know what monday is called.
I did forget one thing, high blood pressure. It is fairly common that irinotecan raises one's blood pressure, it did for me and I had to start taking a pill to counteract the effect. I had to watch getting up quickly or turning suddenly, but that was a minor consideration.
Hugs.
George
J - 29 Nov 2005 10:31 GMT > Sorry I wasn't clear. The shopping in physical stores big event, we call it > Black Friday, is the Friday after our Thanksgiving. There is a phenomenon > that has showed up in the last couple of years where people go online, > usually at their workplaces, the monday after and get the last of the deals > offered at internet stores, I don't know what monday is called. hello George, I'm sorry to put you through this. It's all my fault. I only get 3 TV stations now. I used to know what's happening in the US from the TV. They often showed crowds on "Black Friday", but due to newsgroup posts wishing Happy Thanksgiving 2 weeks ago, I got confused and thought it was earlier until I saw Araik's post on Thursday and checked my calendar. all this to say I was delaying the rollcall until after thanksgiving and thought gee, the "Happy Thanksgiving"s" on other newsgroups are continuing, when will it ever end <g> And now you tell me that the shopping will continue, so I'd best quit finding excuses and just run a roll call and those who are too busy with shopping will catch up with us later. Thanks for explaining. Excuses over, I've started a roll call.
> I did forget one thing, high blood pressure. It is fairly common that > irinotecan raises one's blood pressure, it did for me and I had to start [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > George Thank you for the additional information. I found the lady who was asking. Perhaps she's following along. Hopefully we'll hear from her in the roll call.
And George, I'm sending all my best possible wishes (to you) for the 19th (test results). Hugs J
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