Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / April 2005
ping j and steph
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Paul T. Holland - 05 Apr 2005 23:08 GMT info query plse:
stepbrother (67yr old) just had followup mtg today after endo and needle biopsy last friday - took 4 samples: pancr./liver/left kidney/duod.
all this due to back pain, 13 lb weight loss over 2 months, so they did a cat which showed a spidery 2-3 cm mass.
ok - today
pancr pos, lymph neg, cavity fluid suspicious,
spleen now enlarged (compared to cat done 12 days ago)
masses on panc, left adrenal, left urethra, antr pylorus, multiple 'small' sites thruout abdomen, small mass on treitz ligament, celiac plexus, and mesenteric vessels
his goal is to understand time, and options
are there any trials i can point him too?
ok to email me direct
thanks paul
J - 06 Apr 2005 01:39 GMT > info query plse: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > are there any trials i can point him too? I'm sorry about your step-brother, Paul,
If he's got diarrhea, Barbara could remind us of the chemo that helped her Chris. (or I'll search it overnight in the archives) To be honest paul, I've been here for over 5 years, and that's the worst spread of pancreatic cancer i"ve ever seen here. Not in the liver? (your post is unclear about that) If so, is he jaundiced? (whites of the eyes yellow, skin yellow, peeing yellow/darker urine) Is it definitely pancreatic cancer? - Adenocarcinoma ? For a while I was saying 3 months, then 3 months to a year, when the cancer was only in the pancreas, but I doubt that your step-brother even has 3 months, especially if the liver is involved. I could be wrong. There's an ACOR mail list under P at www.acor.org to compare notes with other patients or loved ones left behind.
Is he ambulant and otherwise fit? It's hard to get a "visual" over the internet. Pancreatic cancer is often diagnosed late stage for the very same reason you mention - back pain attributed to something else. Or loss of weight that's sometimes actually appreciated until the person starts looking rather guant and someone figures out that something's very wrong. The cancer eats up the food that is ingested, so there's musle wasting and weakness along with the weight loss.
If I'm right, get his affairs in order, treat symptoms (hospice) and some tips here at the bottom of the page http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/pancreas.html under supportive measures. - they say 4 months there. Apparently the plexus can be(come) very painful. A stent can be placed if he's fit enough for the surgery; one type is permanent, the other has to be replaced every 2-3 months, if I recall. But if he's got little time, a replacement might not be necessary.
Then do the things that he would do if he knew he only had a week...visit friends, have relatives come visit him, finiish projects, go to the pub, visit places he's always wanted to see (if well enough) and symptoms are under control.
There are clinical trials http://clinicaltrials.gov/ type pancreatic into them. Do you know how to interpret clinical trial criteria? I would say ignore the Curcumin trial. People do do better in trials, whether they're getting thr real thing or a placebo. - perhaps closer moitoring which can occur also with hospice care.
Watch for Steph's reply. Perhaps radiation therapy is the better choice for the plexus. He's the experts. He's the one who sees such patients in his practice.
Whatever you do, paul, tell them not to let desperation take over and end up in the hands of fraudulent treaters... Hang in there for a bit and lets put the pieces together and get all the details. What other symptoms is he having?
I'll be on later . My computer is acting up. J -not an expert
Paul T. Holland - 06 Apr 2005 22:58 GMT thanks j - as to your questions:
> I'm sorry about your step-brother, Paul, > > If he's got diarrhea, Barbara could remind us of the chemo that helped her > Chris. (or I'll search it overnight in the archives) actually at this point it was the opposite, his motility was soooo slow that they had to delay the scope/biop for two days 'cause the stomach/duad hadn't cleared even after fasting. they put him on liquid nutrition - and during the procedure put a stent in the bile/panc duct (closed from inflammation) and since then weight loss has stopped, and last night he even took a bit of solid food.
> To be honest paul, I've been here for over 5 years, and that's the worst > spread of pancreatic cancer i"ve ever seen here. his case manag.doc is pretty shook - they are friends and very honest with each other, but he's not an oncologist.
> Not in the liver? (your post is unclear about that) If so, is he jaundiced? > (whites of the eyes yellow, skin yellow, peeing yellow/darker urine) no jaundice at all, urine output was/is low, but his intake had been curtailed due to the discomfort he was having, under current regimen, he's back up to regular intake and it looks ok. blood sugr ok also at this time.
> Is it definitely pancreatic cancer? - Adenocarcinoma ? don't have the report in front of me, but the verbal yesterday (he's up in boston, i'm in maryland) was yes pancreatic, no liver, and waiting for final labs to determine 'which' of the several types of pancreatic it is and nail down stage definition. but they have all but said it's adeno - hesitation due to slow recpt of labs - this is the roxbury VA outside of boston, with a second opinion coming from brigham.
for now they have decided it started from the head - and are looking at the remaining labs to determine course of action with an oncology/surgery meeting on this coming monday.
> For a while I was saying 3 months, then 3 months to a year, when the cancer > was only in the pancreas, but I doubt that your step-brother even has 3 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Is he ambulant and otherwise fit? It's hard to get a "visual" over the > internet. ok - complication here - he's a 10 year double heart valve replacement on coumadin (they took him off for procedure with debate re heparin/coumadin now) and severe asthmatic bronchitis.
with that said, he's incredibly self-motivated and disciplined - uses meditation etc. with excellent results for years. so his normal is to be active, but for the past 3 weeks his level of fatigue has been increasing now to needing mid-day naps.
put on morphine when other didn't make a dent, and for the past 3 days needed breakthru by 2 pm.
better digestion/motility seems to be helping 'cause today he wanted to be up and around - he's been up all day. though his pain levels are still high
he's been sleeping (cat napping) sitting inclined for about two weeks but with better pain management he's slept thru the nite the last 4.!!!. major diff. in his outlook with sleep...
> Pancreatic cancer is often diagnosed late stage for the very same reason you > mention - back pain attributed to something else. Or loss of weight that's > sometimes actually appreciated until the person starts looking rather guant > and someone figures out that something's very wrong. The cancer eats up the > food that is ingested, so there's musle wasting and weakness along with the > weight loss. poster child for above.
thank you so much for the below, and thanks for all you do -
i think a trip out west to daughter and grandbaby is in order...
i'll post again when they give the final on the labs.
paul
> If I'm right, get his affairs in order, treat symptoms (hospice) and some > tips here at the bottom of the page [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > I'll be on later . My computer is acting up. > J -not an expert Barbara - 06 Apr 2005 23:59 GMT Hi Paul
I'm Barbara. My best friend Chris died almost a month ago of pancreatic cancer, 9+ months after diagnosis.
The chemo he took was the GTX combo, which is Gemcitibine (Gemzar), Taxotere and Xeolda(oral F5U). Other common chemo's are Gemcitibine+Cisplatin, Gemcitibine+Oxiliplatin, and gemcitibine alone......the intent of the combo chemo's is to use less of each individual drug to lessen toxicity.
I thought Chris did very well on his chemo while it was not without side effects the side effects were less severe than the cancer symptoms. In short, he felt better with chemo than without.
Chris had diarrhea throughout most of his illness, towards the end though he developed trouble with delayed gastric emptying much as you described. The bile duct stent should help your stepbrother a lot, and he should try to eat as much as possible without making himself sick. Chris found it helpful to try to develop "cravings" by thinking about food, reading food magazines and watching commercials.
I highly recommend joining the acor list for this disease(www.acor.org), there are lots of people taking various treatments and participating in clinical trials. Also, a very small percentage of people(less than 1% or so) that take chemo for this disease have a spectacular response and while remission is extremely rare it is not unheard of. Randy Stein, an inoperable PC patient, died recently after a 5year+ chemo induced remission.
There are also some trials out there that might be good for people that want to do something but are too ill for chemo (PanVac comes to mind)........they are very much longshots in terms of results but can serve to make the patient feel as if he is doing something.
Be aware that many trials, especially those of alternative and vaccine based treatments, require that the patient to try chemo first. And you will find lots of clinical trials for pancreatic cancer patients...this is mostly due to the fact that the best approved treatments have such dismal results.
No doubt about it, this disease is bad news. The best advice I can give to you and your father is to try to live "in the moment" without thinking about what lies ahead. I think the most common question I've heard people with the disease ask is "what will my death be like" and it is a hard question to get answered. I discovered that the reason this question is hard to answer is that it is different for everyone, the symptoms and the amount of pain can vary greatly patient to patient. Chris never experienced the severe pain that is considered the most common symptom of this disease and I am grateful for that..while preparing for pain and "staying on top" of the pain is prudent, don't live in fear of this pain, it may not happen.
Feel free to e-mail me directly with questions, I don't always check the account I use for this group as often as I should, but I will send you my "real" e-mail address if you contact me there. And again, please join the mailing list at www.acor.org, there is a list group for pancreatic cancer...they can help you with things like the names of doctors in your area that use certain treatments and other very specific info. The group had been a little quiet for awhile, but if you join just post an e-mail describing your situation and you will get many responses.
J - 09 Apr 2005 02:06 GMT > Also, a very small > percentage of people(less than 1% or so) that take chemo for this > disease have a spectacular response and while remission is extremely > rare it is not unheard of. http://www.merck.com/mrkshared/mmanual/section3/chapter34/34e.jsp Pancreatic Tumors
Exocrine tumors of the pancreas develop from ductal and acinar cells. Endocrine tumors arise from islet and gastrin-producing cells and often produce many hormones. EXOCRINE TUMORS Ductal Adenocarcinoma
Adenocarcinomas of the exocrine pancreas arise from duct cells nine times more often than from acinar cells; 80% occur in the head of the gland. Adenocarcinomas appear at the mean age of 55 yr and occur 1.5 to 2 times more often in men. Symptoms and Signs
Symptoms occur late in the course of disease; by diagnosis, 90% of patients have tumor that is locally advanced and has directly involved retroperitoneal structures, spread to regional lymph nodes, or metastasized to the liver or lung. Weight loss and abdominal pain occur in most patients with advanced disease. Adenocarcinomas may produce obstructive jaundice and, if in the body and tail, splenic vein obstruction, splenomegaly, gastric and esophageal varices, and GI hemorrhage. Most patients have increasing severe upper abdominal pain, which usually radiates to the back. Although pancreatic cancer pain may be relieved by bending forward or assuming the fetal position, all patients eventually require narcotic analgesics.
Prognosis and Treatment
Overall 5-yr survival is < 2%. If the tumor is localized to the head of the pancreas (<= 2 cm), as occurs in only 10% of patients, a total pancreatectomy or Whipple's operation (pancreaticoduodenectomy) results in 5-yr survival of 15 to 20%.
Cystadenocarcinoma
A rare adenomatous pancreatic cancer that arises as a malignant degeneration of a mucous cystadenoma and presents as upper abdominal pain and a palpable abdominal mass.
Ultrasound or CT of the pancreas shows cystadenocarcinoma as a cystic mass with debris in it, but scans may be falsely interpreted as necrotic adenocarcinoma or pancreatic pseudocyst. Unlike ductal adenocarcinoma, cystadenocarcinoma has a relatively good prognosis. Only 20% of patients have metastasis at the time of operation; complete excision of the tumor by distal or total pancreatectomy or by Whipple's operation results in a 65% 5-yr survival. Intraductal Papillary-Mucinous Tumor
A recently described syndrome of dilatation of the main pancreatic duct or branch ducts, with mucin overproduction.
Episodic pain that appears to be pancreatic in origin and mucinous (macrocystic) neoplasms (cystadenomas, cystadenocarcinomas) may occur in association with intraductal papillary-mucinous tumors (IPMT). Of IPMT, > 30% are malignant at operation, but the natural history is unknown. The appearance of the ducts on imaging often leads to a diagnosis of chronic pancreatitis, but extrusion of mucus from the papilla or the presence of filling defects (which correspond to globs of mucus) within the pancreatic ducts at ERCP is almost pathognomonic of the condition. Because these studies cannot distinguish invasive malignant disease, surgical excision of the dysplastic area is the best treatment. ENDOCRINE TUMORS
Pancreatic endocrine tumors have two general presentations. Nonfunctioning tumors may cause obstructive symptoms of the biliary tract or duodenum, bleeding into the GI tract, or abdominal masses. Functioning tumors hypersecrete a particular hormone, causing various syndromes, including hypoglycemia (insulinoma hypersecretes insulin); Zollinger-Ellison syndrome (gastrinoma hypersecretes gastrin); vipoma (vasoactive intestinal peptide or prostaglandins E and E2 hypersecretion); carcinoid syndrome (caused by carcinoid tumors--see Ch. 17); diabetes (glucagonoma hypersecretes glucagon); Cushing's syndrome (ACTH hypersecretion); and mild hyperglycemia with cholelithiasis (somatostatinoma). These clinical syndromes also occur sometimes in multiple endocrine neoplasia (see Ch. 10), in which tumors or hyperplasia affects two or more endocrine glands, usually the parathyroid, pituitary, thyroid, or adrenals. Insulinoma
A rare islet cell tumor that hypersecretes insulin.
Insulinoma is a tumor of pancreatic beta cells or, rarely, diffusely hyperplastic beta cells. Of all insulinomas, 80% are single and may be curatively resected if identified. Only 10% of insulinomas are malignant. It occurs in 1/250,000 persons at a median age of 50 yr, except in multiple endocrine neoplasia type I (about 10% of insulinomas), when it occurs in the third decade of life. Insulinomas associated with multiple endocrine neoplasia type I are more likely to be multiple.
Overall surgical cure rates should approach 90%. A small, single insulinoma at or near the surface of the pancreas can usually be enucleated surgically. If a single large or deep adenoma is within the pancreatic body or tail, if there are multiple lesions of the body or tail (or both), or if no insulinoma is found (an unusual circumstance), a distal, subtotal pancreatectomy is performed. In < 1% of cases, the insulinoma is ectopically located in peripancreatic sites of the duodenal wall or periduodenal area and can be found only by diligent search. Pancreaticoduodenectomy (Whipple's operation) is performed for resectable malignant insulinomas of the proximal pancreas. Total pancreatectomy is performed if a previous subtotal pancreatectomy proves inadequate.
If hypoglycemia continues, oral diazoxide (3 to 8 mg/kg in two to three equal doses q 8 to 12 h) in conjunction with a natriuretic can be used. The appropriate starting dose is 3 mg/kg; subsequent doses can be adjusted according to need. The combination of streptozocin (1 g/m2 BSA IV weekly for 4 wk) and 5-FU benefits 50% of patients but requires monitoring of renal function (urine proteins, serum creatinine), hepatic function, and cell counts (potential hematopoietic toxicity) and does not improve survival. A long-acting somatostatin analog, octreotide (100 to 500 µg sc bid to tid), is variably effective and should be considered to treat symptomatic insulinoma patients with continuing hypoglycemia who are refractory to diazoxide. Zollinger-Ellison Syndrome (Z-E Syndrome; Gastrinoma)
A syndrome characterized by marked hypergastrinemia, gastric hypersecretion, and peptic ulceration caused by a gastrin-producing tumor of the pancreas or the duodenal wall.
Vipoma
A tumor of non-beta pancreatic islet cells causing a syndrome of watery diarrhea, hypokalemia, and achlorhydria. Symptoms and Signs
Of these tumors, 50 to 75% are malignant, and some may be quite large (7 cm) at diagnosis. They may be identified within the pancreas by immunocytochemistry. Vipoma syndrome may occur as part of multiple endocrine neoplasia (see Ch. 10). The major clinical features are prolonged massive watery diarrhea (fasting stool volume > 750 to 1000 mL/day and nonfasting volumes of > 3000 mL/day) and symptoms of hypokalemia, acidosis, and dehydration. Of patients, 50% have relatively constant diarrhea, whereas the rest have alternating severe and moderate diarrhea; 33% have diarrhea < 1 yr before diagnosis, but 25% have diarrhea >= 5 yr before diagnosis. Lethargy, muscular weakness, nausea, vomiting, and crampy abdominal pain are frequent. Hyperglycemia and impaired glucose tolerance occur in <= 50% of patients. Rarely, flushing similar to the carcinoid syndrome occurs during attacks of diarrhea.
Tumor resection is curative in 50% of patients with a localized tumor. In those with metastatic tumor, resection of all visible tumor may provide temporary relief of symptoms. The combination of streptozocin and doxorubicin may reduce diarrhea and tumor mass if objective response occurs (in 50 to 60%). Chemotherapy is not curative. Glucagonoma
Pancreatic alpha-cell glucagon-secreting tumors that produce hyperglycemia.
Glucagonomas are very rare but similar to other islet cell tumors in that the primary and metastatic lesions are slow-growing: 15-yr survival is common. Of glucagonomas, 80% are malignant. The average age at symptom onset is 50 yr; 80% of patients are women
etc... J
Paul T. Holland - 12 Apr 2005 00:14 GMT thank you barbara - the info is appreciated
> Hi Paul > [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > join just post an e-mail describing your situation and you will get > many responses. J - 07 Apr 2005 02:02 GMT > actually at this point it was the opposite, his motility was soooo slow that > they had to delay the scope/biop for two days 'cause the stomach/duad hadn't > cleared even after fasting. they put him on liquid nutrition - and during the > procedure put a stent in the bile/panc duct (closed from inflammation) and since > then weight loss has stopped, and last night he even took a bit of solid food. The symptoms of pancreatic cancer include "diarrhea or constipation", so it varies..
> his case manag.doc is pretty shook - they are friends and very honest with each > other, but he's not an oncologist. [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > i'll post again when they give the final on the > labs.\http://www.swedish.org/13709.cfm http://www.swedish.org/13709.cfm Pancreaticoduodenectomy (Whipple procedure) This operation is an attempt at curing pancreatic cancer. Before having this surgery, it is important that detailed imaging studies be done to determine that your cancer is indeed considered resectable (capable of being surgically removed). Pancreaticoduodenectomy is an extremely extensive operation. The head and body of the pancreas, either all of the stomach or the lower part of the stomach, the first and second sections of the small intestine (duodenum and jejunum), surrounding lymph nodes, and the gall bladder and common bile duct are all removed.
This is a very complex surgery, requiring great expertise on the part of the surgeon. There is a very high complication and death rate from this surgery. It is important to have this operation done at a medical center where many are performed. In these settings, the death rate due to this surgery is about 2% to 5%; at smaller, less experienced hospitals, the death rate may be as high as 10%.<end qyoted>
To be honest paul. he's almost 30 years older than the 3 examples (Barbara's friend, a local guy and my firiend's brother). the latter two had none of your stepbrother's complications and had surgery and survived it. Jeff just confirmed that cancer patients tend to have either clotting or bleeding problems, so this is complicated by the coumadin..
the Whipple is described in more detail here http://cpmcnet.columbia.edu/dept/cs/programs/pancreas/pancreatic_surgical.html It's very extensive surgery and would possibly involve removing his spleen too. (which is mentioned on that last one) The pancreas is deep in the body, I think behind the liver. They lift up/out part of the liver and look and feel around. So once opened up, the picture could be quite different and decisions are made while the patient is under anesthetic. I'm sure that would be explained at a surgical meeting.
Once they open a person up, they sometimes find that it's more extensive than thought and simply sew them back up. (that's what happened with Stan, from this newsgroup).. He had an ERCP first, then did his homework and was going to abandon, then went/flew/drove to USCF http://gi.ucsf.edu/hospClinics.html (because he found doctors there who he thought were most experienced with such) for more tests and that's where they opened and closed him back up.
I don't think they would risk it here (person/age/HealthSituation) in Canada, but it's your stepbrother's and surgeons decision.
If he survives the surgery/anesthetic and/or any complications, (after the 2-week hospitalization and recovery period) he may still have to have radiation therapy to his back area. And then see if he's fit enough for any of the chemos...
I would definitely call the daughter and speak with both before the surgery, in case it's his last chance. If he goes on chemo, he may want to inquire if it's available oral, in case he wants to visit his relations while under treatment.
Good luck with the decision making process and best wishes and keep in touch and let us know how it goes. J
J - 07 Apr 2005 13:14 GMT > thanks j - as to your questions: paul, I don't know if you still have my email. If not, you know which newsgroup(s) to find me on. I _will_ be there for you, since you've there for me and for the newsgroups that I care about. Thank you. J
Steph - 06 Apr 2005 05:50 GMT > info query plse: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > thanks > paul The best treatment for the back pain is some simple radiotherapy. The chemo usually used in this situation is gemcitabine, which is fairly non-toxic.
Any treatment is aimed at quality of life, and has no impact on survival time, which is a median of about 4 months
Paul T. Holland - 06 Apr 2005 22:58 GMT thanks steph - appreciate
> > info query plse: > > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > Any treatment is aimed at quality of life, and has no impact on survival > time, which is a median of about 4 months J - 09 Apr 2005 01:45 GMT > spleen now enlarged (compared to cat done 12 days ago) http://www.hmc.psu.edu/healthinfo/pq/pancreaticcancer.htm
Unfortunately, pancreatic cancer usually causes no symptoms until the tumor is large. At that point, the cancer has usually spread (metastasized) to nearby lymph nodes, the liver, or the lungs. The first symptoms are usually abdominal pain and weight loss. Other symptoms depend upon the location of the cancer. About 80% of pancreatic cancers occur in the head of the pancreas. This is the area closest to the common bile duct. Jaundice, which means the skin and whites of the eyes look yellow, occurs when the bile duct becomes obstructed. Other symptoms include mid-back pain, nausea and diarrhea, general weakness, itchy skin, light-colored bowel movements, and slow digestion of food. The liver and gallbladder may be swollen. About 20% of pancreatic cancers occur in the tail of the pancreas. These tumors usually block the vein that drains the spleen, which enlarges the spleen and the varicose veins around the stomach and esophagus. Symptoms include pain in the abdomen that usually gets worse about 3 or 4 hours after a meal; back pain that changes as you change position; loss of appetite; and blood clots in the legs. In the rare cases of pancreatic cancer (cystadenocarcinoma) that affect the hormone-secreting portion of the pancreas, the pancreas will produce too much insulin or other hormones. Symptoms may include weakness or dizziness, chills, muscle spasms, or diarrhea.
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