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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / April 2005progress in liver cancer treatment
I think I heard a lot on the progress in liver cancer related basic research in the past couple of years, but couldn't recall/enumerate when the information is needed now. Can anyone (steph, etc.) sumerize the recent advances in liver cancer treatment? I wish then I would have a starting point for further googling/readgins. You kind help in greatly appreciated. >I think I heard a lot on the progress in liver cancer related basic >research in the past couple of years, but couldn't recall/enumerate when >the information is needed now. Can anyone (steph, etc.) sumerize the >recent advances in liver cancer treatment? I wish then I would have a >starting point for further googling/readgins. You kind help in greatly >appreciated. I honestly don't think there have been any improvements in recent years >>I think I heard a lot on the progress in liver cancer related basic >>research in the past couple of years, but couldn't recall/enumerate when [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > I honestly don't think there have been any improvements in recent years I think I heard many references to gene drugs (in mice testing stage), including one that can switch the cancer growing on/off. Also I heard some mentioning of designer drug which use the patients' own tumor cell to culture. Any news in these areas? There are 'many' commercials of these kind of drugs in China, but I don't know whether they are real. >>>I think I heard a lot on the progress in liver cancer related basic >>>research in the past couple of years, but couldn't recall/enumerate when [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > culture. Any news in these areas? There are 'many' commercials of these > kind of drugs in China, but I don't know whether they are real. It's the same with pretty well all cancers. Exciting lab research which doesn't translate from rats to people. >>>>I think I heard a lot on the progress in liver cancer related basic >>>>research in the past couple of years, but couldn't recall/enumerate when [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > It's the same with pretty well all cancers. Exciting lab research which > doesn't translate from rats to people. This may be off-topic, but what makes it so hard to transport the technique works wonders in mice to human? daye@earthling.net said... > > It's the same with pretty well all cancers. Exciting lab research which > > doesn't translate from rats to people. > This may be off-topic, but what makes it so hard to transport the technique > works wonders in mice to human? I've often wondered the converse: what makes us (generic) so sure that testing things on animal X is necessarily going to provide answers for treating animal Y? It works on a mouse or a rat? Why should it necessarily work on a cat or a dog, or even on me?  SignatureIf you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs... then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the situation. > daye@earthling.net said... >> > It's the same with pretty well all cancers. Exciting lab research which [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > a rat? Why should it necessarily work on a cat or a dog, or > even on me? With my extremly limited knowledge in Biology, our genes share 90% or so similarity with mice or rats, or pigs if that matters. If a drug/treament works for a mouse's cell, then we would expect that particular piece of protein segment also exist and have similiar structure/function on a human being. What puzzles me is: if it is so easy to work out something on mice, as it seems by counting the number of papers etc., why don't they start from scratch studying human cell? daye@earthling.net said... > What puzzles me is: if it is so easy to work out something on mice, as it > seems by counting the number of papers etc., why don't they start from > scratch studying human cell? And why aren't terminally ill people or those with very limited chances of recovery from degenerative disease allowed to offer themselves for drug studies for new ideas? If you've got nothing to lose then surely it can't really make a lot of difference if it proves fatal; OTOH if it is at all beneficial then something good has come of it. SignatureIf you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs... then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the situation. > daye@earthling.net said... >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > difference if it proves fatal; OTOH if it is at all beneficial > then something good has come of it. It happens all the time. It's called a clinical trial. >> daye@earthling.net said... >>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > It happens all the time. It's called a clinical trial. It's not always the case. For an example, thalidomide can improve quality of life of terminal stage patients, but there's no way to get it here. Granted, it has severe side effect, but why does a cancer patient with 3 months life cares about reproduction or finger numb? Not to say that there are suggestions that it helps certain type of cancer. And it's not easy to get into a clinical trial; at least not easy as if you can buy it up front. >>> daye@earthling.net said... >>>> [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > And it's not easy to get into a clinical trial; at least not easy as if > you can buy it up front. There is a clinical trial at the moment for thalidomide. >>>>> What puzzles me is: if it is so easy to work out something on mice, as >>>>> it [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > There is a clinical trial at the moment for thalidomide. I didn't know this, and thank you for sharing the information. Do you know how are they doing in the trail? >>>>>> What puzzles me is: if it is so easy to work out something on mice, >>>>>> as it [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > I didn't know this, and thank you for sharing the information. Do you > know how are they doing in the trail? The point of a trial is that you don't know the results until it's finished. steph@vancouvers.island said... > > And why aren't terminally ill people or those with very > > limited chances of recovery from degenerative disease allowed [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > It happens all the time. It's called a clinical trial. There are some things though which aren't allowed to go to clinical trial because of one reason or another. Whether or not there are any current examples in cancer treatment I know not; however a couple of years ago there was a group of MS sufferers complaining bitterly that they weren't being allowed to try a certain drug because it was too expensive or some such reason. Details are hazy though, because only half of me was paying attention at the time. SignatureIf you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs... then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the situation. > . Details are hazy though, because only half of me > was paying attention at the time. Hi Em, My computer guru's mom had a tumour removed (and part of) her tongue. I assume it's squamous. She's mostly been eating (drinking) Ensure. she's older than your Mom, I think. Anyway, speaking of hazy, did your mom have trouble with diarrhea? They're concerned about their Mom because the "D" is so severe, but can't seem to find the cause (yet). Any ideas? J sofala@anon.inv said... > Hi Em, My computer guru's mom had a tumour removed (and part of) her > tongue. For a minute there I misread that and couldn't work out why on earth your computer would be having surgery. Must be the date or something - or possibly the fact that I'm only on my first cup of tea... Sorry, I'll start paying attention now :-) > I assume it's squamous. > She's mostly been eating (drinking) Ensure. > she's older than your Mom, I think. Mother's coming up to 77. > Anyway, speaking of hazy, did your mom have trouble with diarrhea? Not that I know of, but OTOH it wouldn't surprise me because of the disgusting non-food she had to - well, 'eat' is the wrong word entirely :-( She'll be here later on so I'll see if I can get her to respond to this herself. TBH though I can't remember her saying anything about diarrhoeia (UK spelling - we aim to confuse <g>); she was mainly concerned about oral hygiene because it was almost impossible for her to clean her teeth. > They're concerned about their Mom because the "D" is so severe, but can't > seem to find the cause (yet). Which seems to imply that it's not a normal reaction to the gloop such people are forced to ingest. > Any ideas? 'Fraid not, but I'll ask mother to pop in when she gets here later on today. SignatureIf you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs... then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the situation. >> I assume it's squamous. >> She's mostly been eating (drinking) Ensure. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > >> Any ideas? It's not unusul to get diarrhoea with ensure and similar feeds at first. Try watering it down to half or quarter strength for a while. MIKE > >> I assume it's squamous. > >> She's mostly been eating (drinking) Ensure. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > watering it down to half or quarter strength for a while. > MIKE She's 83 Em. He said she'd "kill him if she knew he was discussing her bowel function". I said "don't worry, she doesn't even know me and I won't breathe a word" <g> So perhaps if your mother had problems, she didn't want to discuss it.. Hi Mike, the doctor ordered a scan. (never even suggested what you mention). So I passed your comment along to the son. Sounds like he's going to try it, but it was a hasty call.. Hopefully that will do the trick. So thank you. J banish@anon.inv said... > > >> I assume it's squamous. > > >> She's mostly been eating (drinking) Ensure. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > > > > > Not that I know of, [...] > > > She'll be here later on so I'll > > > see if I can get her to respond to this herself. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I said "don't worry, she doesn't even know me and I won't breathe a word" <g> > So perhaps if your mother had problems, she didn't want to discuss it.. <g> My mother's not like that. If she's got a medical problem she'll tell me. She's not shy of discussing things, any more than I am. Bowel movements? Everyday topic of conversation in this house! On another note - although she was here she didn't stay long enough to look at the NG. I was away and she was collecting my two youngest in order to take them off for the weekend, thus releasing my teenage daughter from babysitting duties. She came, she collected, she bu****ed off again. According to my daughter she didn't even stop for a cuppa. My, the house must be worse than usual! (Blame Socks. He says he might not be visiting after all. No visit, no tidying. QED.) SignatureIf you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs... then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the situation. > banish@anon.inv said... > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > any more than I am. Bowel movements? Everyday topic of > conversation in this house! Sounds like here. If it's not someone on the phone, it's some NG. <g> > On another note - although she was here she didn't stay long > enough to look at the NG. I was away and she was collecting [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > must be worse than usual! (Blame Socks. He says he might not > be visiting after all. No visit, no tidying. QED.) What's QED mean? I think he's coming here..while my computer was down, I was washing celings and "whites" (trim, doorways, baseboards), peeling off wallpaper...unless you sent me the "housecleaning" voodoo vibe <smile> . Now I have painting to do and figure out what to do in this room. Taking off the wallpaper wasn't a solution, there's layers and layers..what a mess. Hugs em J >> No visit, no tidying. QED.) > > What's QED mean? Forgotten our school geometry so soon have we??? :) All those theorem proofs? Quod Erat Demonstratum That which has been demonstrated (proved). bj > "J" <banish@invalid.anon> wrote in message > >> No visit, no tidying. QED.) > > > > What's QED mean? > > Forgotten our school geometry so soon have we??? :) What do you mean so soon? I'm a senior; you do know that brain cells die off as soon as we're born, right? That's because we have too many to start with or so they say. :-) Despite perhaps never memorizing that, I do okay. I did get A in geometry, but perhaps I missed that class ! I can eyeball trim and cut two pieces to fit together. I've buit things out of wood for years. they stay strong. If they're supposed to swing, then swing; there are a few things I would not tackle without an expert's advice. I'm a carpenter's dream or so I've been told.. > All those theorem proofs? > Quod Erat Demonstratum > That which has been demonstrated (proved). Thanks BJ, If I didn't know, I suspect that many readers didn't either. J banish@invalid.anon said... > > banish@anon.inv said... > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > What's QED mean? Normally it means 'quod erat demonstrandum' or 'that proves the point'. Re-reading what I wrote I'd have to say that in this instance it probably doesn't actually mean very much at all. > I think he's coming here..while my computer was down, I was washing celings and > "whites" (trim, doorways, baseboards), peeling off wallpaper...unless you sent me > the "housecleaning" voodoo vibe <smile> . Now I have painting to do and figure out > what to do in this room. Taking off the wallpaper wasn't a solution, there's layers > and layers..what a mess. Your house wasn't previously lived in by the previous occupant of my last house, was it? If you've got a gas fire I'd check very carefully for hidden bits of flammable baton holding it to the chimney, if so. You'll find them buried under about the sixth layer of the most utterly repulsive wallpaper you've ever seen... SignatureIf you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs... then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the situation. > steph@vancouvers.island said... >> > And why aren't terminally ill people or those with very [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > such reason. Details are hazy though, because only half of me > was paying attention at the time. For something to go to a clinical trial, some criteria need to be met: 1) There is some rational basis for believing that some new therapy may be beneficial. "Rational basis" means evidence based on scientific principles 2) There is a probem which is not addressed by current therapy steph@vancouvers.island said... > > a couple of years ago there was a group of MS > > sufferers complaining bitterly that they weren't being allowed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > beneficial. "Rational basis" means evidence based on scientific principles > 2) There is a probem which is not addressed by current therapy Chances are the problem was that it involved cannabis or similar - TBH I can't remember now but it wouldn't surprise me because there's quite a lobby here (and probably in the US and Canada as well) for medicinal cannabis to be made available. Personally, if it's the only thing that helps someone I can't see the problem. Actually I can't see a problem at all with cannabis: yes, it can be misused, but on that basis we should be looking at a complete ban on things like alcohol and tobacco. Which won't happen, but not in the least bit because governments make too much money from those, oh no. SignatureIf you can keep your head when all around are losing theirs... then you've failed to grasp some important aspect of the situation. >> daye@earthling.net said... >>> > It's the same with pretty well all cancers. Exciting lab research [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > seems by counting the number of papers etc., why don't they start from > scratch studying human cell? Lots of research is done in humans with cancers, and with human cell lines in test tubes >>>>>I think I heard a lot on the progress in liver cancer related basic >>>>>research in the past couple of years, but couldn't recall/enumerate [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > This may be off-topic, but what makes it so hard to transport the > technique works wonders in mice to human? 1) Mice aren't human 2) Lab mice are very inbred, humans are not 3) Lab cancers are very inbred, wild cancers are not. And a few other things |
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