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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / March 2005

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Alternative cancer treatment centers

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Adam Messer - 01 Mar 2005 00:40 GMT
Hello,

   I have been diagnosed with stage 4 AednoCarsinoma (spelling?) of
the lung. It has metastasized to the cervical spine and brain. I am
currently at MD Anderson Cancer Center. They are currently treating
the brain tumors with radiation for the next 7 days.

   When the radiation has subsided in the brain (I believe that will
be about six weeks) they will begin chemo. I am supposed to meet with
my Oncologist to discuss a variety of chemo protocols. I do not get a
"warm fuzzy feeling" about the prognosis for any of the treatments
they mentioned so far. I will do anything that will heal me, but I
don't want to suffer though horrible chemo if it is very unlikely to
cure me.

   I have begun to look into alternative treatment centers. I have
found lots and lots of success stories on the net, but it is very hard
to make a decision based on individual success stories. Maybe they
don't mention the other 99% that didn't make it.

   Does anyone out there have experience, or know anyone that does,
with an alternative clinic? I have looked at two so far. Since I am
here in Houston for my treatment, I have looked at the Bursynski
Clinic. I have also checked into the University of Texas Medical
Branch in Galviston Texas. They have an interesting Alternative and
Integrative health plan.

   Has anyone ever heard of Bob Marshal? He has a health radio show
that I called into. He recommends Burzynski. How about Gary Null? My
sister thinks I should GAX my doctors reports to him to get help.

   And now for diet. A lot of people have success stories based
strictly on diet. Macrobiotic as well as some other weird ones have
been mentioned. One guy, with my type/stage cancer, said he was cured
by a combination of 75,000 mgs of vitamin-C a day combined with a
macrobiotic diet of some sort.  Any advice here?

   Hey world. I am very scared! The doctors haven't given me a lot of
hope. I just turned 47 years old, and am generally in very good
health. My lung capacity/efficiency measured something like 105% that
of a normal person my age. I was a track star in college and was
beginning to run again. Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Adam Messer
amesser39@hotmail.com
Alayne - 01 Mar 2005 07:38 GMT
> Hello,
>
>     I have been diagnosed with stage 4 AednoCarsinoma (spelling?) of
> the lung. It has metastasized to the cervical spine and brain. I am
> currently at MD Anderson Cancer Center. They are currently treating
> the brain tumors with radiation for the next 7 days.

>     Hey world. I am very scared! The doctors haven't given me a lot of
> hope. I just turned 47 years old, and am generally in very good
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Adam Messer
> amesser39@hotmail.com

Hello Adam,

Sorry to hear of your diagnosis and I can certainly understand your fear.
You must feel like your world has been turned upside down but the dust will
settle and you may be able to think clearly.

I have no experience of cancer myself but I did care for my husband with a
GBM4 brain tumour.  Like you, my husband searched the web (his prognosis was
not very good from the outset) but be so so careful with alternatives.  I'm
not a medic but would far rather trust qualified medics with my health and
treatment than any of the alternatives.

Chemotherapy and radiotherapy sound very scary, but in our experience, they
were a lot easier than we "imagined".

Take care.

Warm Hugs

Alayne
J - 01 Mar 2005 11:11 GMT
>     I have begun to look into alternative treatment centers. I have
> found lots and lots of success stories on the net, but it is very hard
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> by a combination of 75,000 mgs of vitamin-C a day combined with a
> macrobiotic diet of some sort.  Any advice here?

Hello Adam, I'm addressing these issues first.
From hereon, you'll have everyone and their cousin suggesing alternative
treatments.
They don't work.
You'll see thousands of books, each claiming they cure one or more cancers
and/or all types of diseases.
You'll see posters (who sometimes post here or other newsgroups), make the
same claims.
You will hear and read testimonials; part of each is true, but there's
usually always missing information.
Sometimes the person didn't even have cancer to begin with, sometimes they
were treated by conventional means (surgery, radiation therapy, chemo) but
forget to say that on various web pages. Sometimes they don't even say
which type of cancer they had. Or they refer to a "tumor". Well that word
is sometimes used to indicated some tissue; could be benign. (non
cancerous).
Some think they've been cured and say so in books, on tv, on newsgroups,
on webpages, but haven't stood the test of time, to see if there'll be a
recurrance.
Over the years here, I"ve tried to locate some of these persons who've
claimed to have been cured..
Some of their testimonials are repeated on many webpages. However, the
webpages are not updated. Some are not dated, so for all we know the
person died years ago, and they are repeating the same stories, over and
over, without providing an update on the person.
Peter Moran (MD) has done much more in trying to locate these persons and
weed through testimonials.
You can be assured if there was an alternative treatment that was proven
to work, he'd be posting it daily or weekly here.
Burzynski (and many others) are quacksters. Most quacksters say a bit of
truth, the rest is "spin" and misinformation.

If you read nothing else, please read and understand the following
sections of this webpage.
http://www.quackwatch.org/00AboutQuackwatch/altseek.html
A Special Message for Cancer Patients Seeking "Alternative" Treatments
These explain how promoters of dubious treatments manipulate the emotions
of desperate cancer patients and their families.

   * Be Wary of "Alternative" Health Methods
   * How Quackery Sells
   * How Quackery Harms Cancer Patients
   * 25 Ways to Spot Quackery
   * "Health Freedom" How It Harms Cancer Patients
   * More Ploys That May Fool You

Some of us eat acidophillus (sp?) yogurt after taking antibiotics to help
reset flora (good/bad bacteria levels).
Cancer? no.
Vitamin C. Some think it helps prevent colds and infections (or help a
cold/infection go away faster). Cancer ? No. But you'll be peeing lots of
Vitamin C. Any excess that the body doesn't need just comes out in the
urine.

J
J - 01 Mar 2005 11:47 GMT
>     I have been diagnosed with stage 4 AednoCarsinoma (spelling?) of
> the lung. It has metastasized to the cervical spine and brain. I am
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> of a normal person my age. I was a track star in college and was
> beginning to run again. Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hello Adam, I'm very sorry to hear about your cancer.
My cousin was just about the same age as you are when he had melanoma.
It came back two years later and he died about 6 months later. I'm sad to
say that his sister tells me that he tried chemotherapy.  Barring a
correction from her, it's sad to me that he wasted time and hope on a
treatment that doesn't work well on that type of cancer either. He had
radiation therapy to his brain.  However, tumors kept coming back in his
brain.

This is a quote by Steph.
<start quote>For every 100 cancers cured, surgery cures about 55,
radiotherapy about 40, and chemotherapy about 5.<end quote>

There are 2 or 3 types of cancer that are curable with chemo.
As far as I know (and I'm not the expert here) yours, unfortunately, is
not one of them.  Over a period of 6 or 7 years, we've seen one apparent
spontaeous remission.

So you have questions to ask of yourself.

Spine mets:
Do they hurt?
Are they interfering somehow with breathing?
Can the spine mets be treated (without harm) by radiation therapy?

Should I give chemo a whirl for a while to try and slow it down?  That's
what Socks did. He had a carefully planned treatment plan with breaks in
between, so that he could continue on with his life, his projects and not
get too ill/ permanent side effects.

Which is the best, tried and true, for my type of cancer? (Steph might
tell us which is the best).
Should I wait until there's symptoms? (palliative chemotherapy)

Some posters here might do the "go, go, chemo, don't stop".  There's a
price to pay for that; false hope and quality of life. Especially if
you've got better things to do with your life, if this is the best that
you'll feel for the duration.

this is Steph's algorithm for your consideration http://tinyurl.com/vh34

Please don't go away in a panic or depression. Stay here, as you are able,
with the cancer community.
Vent your feelings, share the good and bad times, get to know the other
posters.
There's very caring persons here.

Please know that I care and am very sorry to read about your diagnosis.
J
Adam Messer - 01 Mar 2005 17:40 GMT
Hello,

   Thanks for the reponse. I have a meeting scheduled with the Burzynski
clinic today. I have gotten a few bad responses about this idea, but I still
want to talk with them and see. I will try to stay in tocuh with the cancer
community and inform them of my progress.

Thanks again,
Adam

> >     I have been diagnosed with stage 4 AednoCarsinoma (spelling?) of
> > the lung. It has metastasized to the cervical spine and brain. I am
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
> Please know that I care and am very sorry to read about your diagnosis.
> J
Peter Moran - 01 Mar 2005 21:39 GMT
> Hello,
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> cancer
> community and inform them of my progress.

Do let us know how you get on.   B has been "researching" his method for
about thirty years now and should have treated a number of stage four NSCLC
cases.  You have an absolute right to know what happened to those patients
and to speak to any survivors.   They would be glad to talk to you, too.

Peter Moran
J - 01 Mar 2005 21:50 GMT
> "Adam Messer" <adam_messer@mentor.com> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> cases.  You have an absolute right to know what happened to those patients
> and to speak to any survivors.

Good point.

>  They would be glad to talk to you, too.

Know of any?
J
Peter Moran - 02 Mar 2005 00:22 GMT
>> "Adam Messer" <adam_messer@mentor.com> wrote in message
>>
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> Know of any?
> J

No, but I know they would be glad to talk to a fellow cancer sufferer.    I
had in mind the ploy  some shady characters use to avoid the checking of
their claims i.e. that they have to protect their patient's privacy.  This
is humbug.

Peter Moran
Willcox - 01 Mar 2005 19:44 GMT
>     I have begun to look into alternative treatment centers. I have
> found lots and lots of success stories on the net, but it is very hard
> to make a decision based on individual success stories.

The oldest, best known, most attacked and yet still standing alternative
cancer treatment is the Hoxsey treatment of which now there is only one
clinic left in Mexico. They survived so many court battles,
congressional hearings and so much harassment by the FDA, FBI, national
news media and even local police. The battles went on for years before
Hoxsey finally ran out of his own oil money (he was an oil man, the cure
came from his father) that he had been using to keep his clinics alive.
(they treated people whether or not they could pay). At one time there
were 18 Hoxsey alternative cancer clinics in the United States. In these
court battles, literally hundreds of ex-cancer patients testified under
oath that mainstream medicine wrote them off as terminal, they then went
to Hoxsey who cured them and that had been 5, 10, 15 years ago. And many
were prominent citizens. In all these trials, Hoxsey was never
convicted. Even the DA who arrested Hoxsey over 100 times later became a
Hoxsey supporter when that he learned that his brother (the DA's
brother) had secretly gone to Hoxsey and been cured. Amazing story. The
biggest alternative cancer clinic in the world was a Hoxsey clinic back
in the 60s, but you'll never hear that on ABC news.

The one remaining Hoxsey clinic in Mexico still claims an 80% cure rate
of people written off as terminal by mainstream medicine. They still
treat people whether or not they can pay, a promise Harry Hoxsey made at
his father's death bed (I'm sure they will insist you pay if you can).

There's a Hoxsey video out, it was broadcast on Cinemax about 1986,
called "Hoxsey: Quacks who cure cancer" (was also renamed as "Hoxsey:
How healing becomes a crime"). it's still being sold, very interesting.

Hoxsey may not be the best alternative treatment, but without a doubt it
has earned the most trust.

> Since I am here in Houston for my treatment, I have looked at the
> Bursynski Clinic. I have also checked into the University of Texas Medical
> Branch in Galviston Texas. They have an interesting Alternative and
> Integrative health plan.

I seriously doubt you'll find much of anything in the United States. You
may remember back in the 90s the mainstream media made an attempt to
discredit alternative medicine without much success. Now they are
attempting to hi-jack the term "alternative medicine" with their own
clinics.

Any doctor who offers any effective cancer treatment that seriously
competes with a big cash cow of mainstream medicine ends up in prison,
run out of the country or dead, and even dead from the disease he
claimed to cure (murdered). Any alternative cancer treatment that's
going to work well you'll have to go out of the country to get it.
Simm Webb - 01 Mar 2005 21:08 GMT
> The oldest, best known, most attacked and yet still standing alternative
> cancer treatment is the Hoxsey treatment of which now there is only one
> clinic left in Mexico.

And in spite of all you have written, they still fail to properly treat
cancer.
J - 01 Mar 2005 21:31 GMT
> > The oldest, best known, most attacked and yet still standing alternative
> > cancer treatment is the Hoxsey treatment of which now there is only one
> > clinic left in Mexico.
>
> And in spite of all you have written, they still fail to properly treat
> cancer.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/OTA/ota04.html#Hoxsey
In 1957, a committee of faculty members of the University of British Columbia
conducted a review of the Hoxsey treatment and facilities (582). After
visiting Hoxsey's Dallas clinic, the committee described the overall treatment
regimen, along with various other aspects of the treatment (the history of the
treatment, Hoxsey's claims for efficacy, and the history of Hoxsey's
litigation concerning the treatment). They were particularly interested in
following up on patients from British Columbia who were treated at the clinic.
The clinic gave the committee members records for 78 patients from their
"active" files (unbeknownst to the clinic, however, some of these patients had
died). The committee was able to follow up on 71 of these patients, using
British Columbia's cancer registry, death registry, and physician records.
Their detailed findings were summarized as follows:

For over one-half of the [cancer] patients from British Columbia, the result
[of treatment with the Hoxsey method] has been either death or progression of
the disease. In nearly one-quarter there was no proof that the patient ever
had cancer. Nearly one in ten of the patients had curative treatment before
going to the Hoxsey Clinic. In only one case, an external cancer, was there
any evidence at all that the Hoxsey treatment had an effect on the disease; in
that case, better results could have been obtained by orthodox means (582).

The latter case to which they refer reportedly involved a woman with a
"slow-growing cancer of the ear" who refused surgery and was treated with one
of Hoxsey's external treatments. The committee reported that the treatment
"did, in fact, remove the cancerous growth, along with a good deal of normal
tissue." It did so "with needless pain and disfigurement," given that it could
have been treated with radiation or surgery, in the committee's opinion (582).
They also reported that of the 32 patients who died, "two-thirds were dead in
less than six months, 90 per cent were dead within a year, and none survived
two years" (582).

Hoxsey made attempts (in 1945 and 1950) to have NCI review his patients'
records. On both occasions, NCI determined that the records Hoxsey submitted
did not meet NCI's previously established criteria at that time for
documenting treatment effects. In summary, these criteria required that
Hoxsey:

   * explain the composition of his herbal treatments and his regimen for
treating patients;
   * submit complete clinical and laboratory records of at least 50 patients
with internal cancer to show confirmation of the diagnosis by biopsy and
objective evidence of regression of primary growth and metastases by
measurement, photographs, and x-rays; and
   * provide proof that these patients had survived at least 5 years
following treatment (418,582,984).[...]

they're "blame the patient's attitude" and/or "blame the previous conventional
therapy" for their failures.
J
Willcox - 02 Mar 2005 01:37 GMT
> http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/OTA/ota04.html#Hoxsey
> In 1957, a committee of faculty members of the University of British Columbia
> conducted a review of the Hoxsey treatment and facilities (582).

You really think this study was fair and balanced? Those studies
typically prove whatever those paying for it want it to prove.

Hoxsey had dozens of doctors working for him and thousands of patients.
Hoxsey was also subject to criminal trials, arrested over 100 times, yet
never convicted. He was also the subject of congressional hearings.
These were far more scrutinized than your paid "study".
Steph - 02 Mar 2005 03:05 GMT
>> http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/OTA/ota04.html#Hoxsey
>> In 1957, a committee of faculty members of the University of British
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> You really think this study was fair and balanced? Those studies
> typically prove whatever those paying for it want it to prove.

I see. It wasn't fair and balanced because the results don't conform to your
wishes?
Mike Radcliffe - 02 Mar 2005 08:34 GMT
>> The oldest, best known, most attacked and yet still standing alternative
>> cancer treatment is the Hoxsey treatment of which now there is only one
>> clinic left in Mexico.

And it would be great if it worked.
 MIKE
J - 01 Mar 2005 21:48 GMT
> >     I have begun to look into alternative treatment centers. I have
> > found lots and lots of success stories on the net, but it is very hard
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> treat people whether or not they can pay, a promise Harry Hoxsey made at
> his father's death bed (I'm sure they will insist you pay if you can).

http://documents.cancer.org/232.00/
Questionable Practices at Mexican Border Clinics

> [...]
> Any doctor who offers any effective cancer treatment that seriously
> competes with a big cash cow of mainstream medicine ends up in prison,
> run out of the country or dead, and even dead from the disease he
> claimed to cure (murdered).

Wot ?  He treated a murderer and the murderer murdered him !
Must have been angry that he wasted his time and money...
J
Willcox - 02 Mar 2005 01:37 GMT
> http://documents.cancer.org/232.00/
> Questionable Practices at Mexican Border Clinics

American Cancer Society??!  about 85% of their revenue goes to lobbying
the US congress and senate on behalf of the medical industry. Only about
10% goes towards "research", just enough that they can legally solicit
donations "for cancer research".

> > Any doctor who offers any effective cancer treatment that seriously
> > competes with a big cash cow of mainstream medicine ends up in prison,
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Must have been angry that he wasted his time and money...
> J

How to murder and discredit a competitor as only very knowledgeable,
corrupt doctor could do. The medical industry is 1/7th the US economy,
plenty of motive there.
 
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