Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / March 2005
Alternative cancer treatment centers
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Adam Messer - 01 Mar 2005 00:40 GMT Hello,
I have been diagnosed with stage 4 AednoCarsinoma (spelling?) of the lung. It has metastasized to the cervical spine and brain. I am currently at MD Anderson Cancer Center. They are currently treating the brain tumors with radiation for the next 7 days.
When the radiation has subsided in the brain (I believe that will be about six weeks) they will begin chemo. I am supposed to meet with my Oncologist to discuss a variety of chemo protocols. I do not get a "warm fuzzy feeling" about the prognosis for any of the treatments they mentioned so far. I will do anything that will heal me, but I don't want to suffer though horrible chemo if it is very unlikely to cure me.
I have begun to look into alternative treatment centers. I have found lots and lots of success stories on the net, but it is very hard to make a decision based on individual success stories. Maybe they don't mention the other 99% that didn't make it.
Does anyone out there have experience, or know anyone that does, with an alternative clinic? I have looked at two so far. Since I am here in Houston for my treatment, I have looked at the Bursynski Clinic. I have also checked into the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galviston Texas. They have an interesting Alternative and Integrative health plan.
Has anyone ever heard of Bob Marshal? He has a health radio show that I called into. He recommends Burzynski. How about Gary Null? My sister thinks I should GAX my doctors reports to him to get help.
And now for diet. A lot of people have success stories based strictly on diet. Macrobiotic as well as some other weird ones have been mentioned. One guy, with my type/stage cancer, said he was cured by a combination of 75,000 mgs of vitamin-C a day combined with a macrobiotic diet of some sort. Any advice here?
Hey world. I am very scared! The doctors haven't given me a lot of hope. I just turned 47 years old, and am generally in very good health. My lung capacity/efficiency measured something like 105% that of a normal person my age. I was a track star in college and was beginning to run again. Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you, Adam Messer amesser39@hotmail.com
Alayne - 01 Mar 2005 07:38 GMT > Hello, > > I have been diagnosed with stage 4 AednoCarsinoma (spelling?) of > the lung. It has metastasized to the cervical spine and brain. I am > currently at MD Anderson Cancer Center. They are currently treating > the brain tumors with radiation for the next 7 days.
> Hey world. I am very scared! The doctors haven't given me a lot of > hope. I just turned 47 years old, and am generally in very good [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Adam Messer > amesser39@hotmail.com Hello Adam,
Sorry to hear of your diagnosis and I can certainly understand your fear. You must feel like your world has been turned upside down but the dust will settle and you may be able to think clearly.
I have no experience of cancer myself but I did care for my husband with a GBM4 brain tumour. Like you, my husband searched the web (his prognosis was not very good from the outset) but be so so careful with alternatives. I'm not a medic but would far rather trust qualified medics with my health and treatment than any of the alternatives.
Chemotherapy and radiotherapy sound very scary, but in our experience, they were a lot easier than we "imagined".
Take care.
Warm Hugs
Alayne
J - 01 Mar 2005 11:11 GMT > I have begun to look into alternative treatment centers. I have > found lots and lots of success stories on the net, but it is very hard [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > by a combination of 75,000 mgs of vitamin-C a day combined with a > macrobiotic diet of some sort. Any advice here? Hello Adam, I'm addressing these issues first. From hereon, you'll have everyone and their cousin suggesing alternative treatments. They don't work. You'll see thousands of books, each claiming they cure one or more cancers and/or all types of diseases. You'll see posters (who sometimes post here or other newsgroups), make the same claims. You will hear and read testimonials; part of each is true, but there's usually always missing information. Sometimes the person didn't even have cancer to begin with, sometimes they were treated by conventional means (surgery, radiation therapy, chemo) but forget to say that on various web pages. Sometimes they don't even say which type of cancer they had. Or they refer to a "tumor". Well that word is sometimes used to indicated some tissue; could be benign. (non cancerous). Some think they've been cured and say so in books, on tv, on newsgroups, on webpages, but haven't stood the test of time, to see if there'll be a recurrance. Over the years here, I"ve tried to locate some of these persons who've claimed to have been cured.. Some of their testimonials are repeated on many webpages. However, the webpages are not updated. Some are not dated, so for all we know the person died years ago, and they are repeating the same stories, over and over, without providing an update on the person. Peter Moran (MD) has done much more in trying to locate these persons and weed through testimonials. You can be assured if there was an alternative treatment that was proven to work, he'd be posting it daily or weekly here. Burzynski (and many others) are quacksters. Most quacksters say a bit of truth, the rest is "spin" and misinformation.
If you read nothing else, please read and understand the following sections of this webpage. http://www.quackwatch.org/00AboutQuackwatch/altseek.html A Special Message for Cancer Patients Seeking "Alternative" Treatments These explain how promoters of dubious treatments manipulate the emotions of desperate cancer patients and their families.
* Be Wary of "Alternative" Health Methods * How Quackery Sells * How Quackery Harms Cancer Patients * 25 Ways to Spot Quackery * "Health Freedom" How It Harms Cancer Patients * More Ploys That May Fool You
Some of us eat acidophillus (sp?) yogurt after taking antibiotics to help reset flora (good/bad bacteria levels). Cancer? no. Vitamin C. Some think it helps prevent colds and infections (or help a cold/infection go away faster). Cancer ? No. But you'll be peeing lots of Vitamin C. Any excess that the body doesn't need just comes out in the urine.
J
J - 01 Mar 2005 11:47 GMT > I have been diagnosed with stage 4 AednoCarsinoma (spelling?) of > the lung. It has metastasized to the cervical spine and brain. I am [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > of a normal person my age. I was a track star in college and was > beginning to run again. Any/all advice would be greatly appreciated. Hello Adam, I'm very sorry to hear about your cancer. My cousin was just about the same age as you are when he had melanoma. It came back two years later and he died about 6 months later. I'm sad to say that his sister tells me that he tried chemotherapy. Barring a correction from her, it's sad to me that he wasted time and hope on a treatment that doesn't work well on that type of cancer either. He had radiation therapy to his brain. However, tumors kept coming back in his brain.
This is a quote by Steph. <start quote>For every 100 cancers cured, surgery cures about 55, radiotherapy about 40, and chemotherapy about 5.<end quote>
There are 2 or 3 types of cancer that are curable with chemo. As far as I know (and I'm not the expert here) yours, unfortunately, is not one of them. Over a period of 6 or 7 years, we've seen one apparent spontaeous remission.
So you have questions to ask of yourself.
Spine mets: Do they hurt? Are they interfering somehow with breathing? Can the spine mets be treated (without harm) by radiation therapy?
Should I give chemo a whirl for a while to try and slow it down? That's what Socks did. He had a carefully planned treatment plan with breaks in between, so that he could continue on with his life, his projects and not get too ill/ permanent side effects.
Which is the best, tried and true, for my type of cancer? (Steph might tell us which is the best). Should I wait until there's symptoms? (palliative chemotherapy)
Some posters here might do the "go, go, chemo, don't stop". There's a price to pay for that; false hope and quality of life. Especially if you've got better things to do with your life, if this is the best that you'll feel for the duration.
this is Steph's algorithm for your consideration http://tinyurl.com/vh34
Please don't go away in a panic or depression. Stay here, as you are able, with the cancer community. Vent your feelings, share the good and bad times, get to know the other posters. There's very caring persons here.
Please know that I care and am very sorry to read about your diagnosis. J
Adam Messer - 01 Mar 2005 17:40 GMT Hello,
Thanks for the reponse. I have a meeting scheduled with the Burzynski clinic today. I have gotten a few bad responses about this idea, but I still want to talk with them and see. I will try to stay in tocuh with the cancer community and inform them of my progress.
Thanks again, Adam
> > I have been diagnosed with stage 4 AednoCarsinoma (spelling?) of > > the lung. It has metastasized to the cervical spine and brain. I am [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] > Please know that I care and am very sorry to read about your diagnosis. > J Peter Moran - 01 Mar 2005 21:39 GMT > Hello, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > cancer > community and inform them of my progress. Do let us know how you get on. B has been "researching" his method for about thirty years now and should have treated a number of stage four NSCLC cases. You have an absolute right to know what happened to those patients and to speak to any survivors. They would be glad to talk to you, too.
Peter Moran
J - 01 Mar 2005 21:50 GMT > "Adam Messer" <adam_messer@mentor.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > cases. You have an absolute right to know what happened to those patients > and to speak to any survivors. Good point.
> They would be glad to talk to you, too. Know of any? J
Peter Moran - 02 Mar 2005 00:22 GMT >> "Adam Messer" <adam_messer@mentor.com> wrote in message >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Know of any? > J No, but I know they would be glad to talk to a fellow cancer sufferer. I had in mind the ploy some shady characters use to avoid the checking of their claims i.e. that they have to protect their patient's privacy. This is humbug.
Peter Moran
Willcox - 01 Mar 2005 19:44 GMT > I have begun to look into alternative treatment centers. I have > found lots and lots of success stories on the net, but it is very hard > to make a decision based on individual success stories. The oldest, best known, most attacked and yet still standing alternative cancer treatment is the Hoxsey treatment of which now there is only one clinic left in Mexico. They survived so many court battles, congressional hearings and so much harassment by the FDA, FBI, national news media and even local police. The battles went on for years before Hoxsey finally ran out of his own oil money (he was an oil man, the cure came from his father) that he had been using to keep his clinics alive. (they treated people whether or not they could pay). At one time there were 18 Hoxsey alternative cancer clinics in the United States. In these court battles, literally hundreds of ex-cancer patients testified under oath that mainstream medicine wrote them off as terminal, they then went to Hoxsey who cured them and that had been 5, 10, 15 years ago. And many were prominent citizens. In all these trials, Hoxsey was never convicted. Even the DA who arrested Hoxsey over 100 times later became a Hoxsey supporter when that he learned that his brother (the DA's brother) had secretly gone to Hoxsey and been cured. Amazing story. The biggest alternative cancer clinic in the world was a Hoxsey clinic back in the 60s, but you'll never hear that on ABC news.
The one remaining Hoxsey clinic in Mexico still claims an 80% cure rate of people written off as terminal by mainstream medicine. They still treat people whether or not they can pay, a promise Harry Hoxsey made at his father's death bed (I'm sure they will insist you pay if you can).
There's a Hoxsey video out, it was broadcast on Cinemax about 1986, called "Hoxsey: Quacks who cure cancer" (was also renamed as "Hoxsey: How healing becomes a crime"). it's still being sold, very interesting.
Hoxsey may not be the best alternative treatment, but without a doubt it has earned the most trust.
> Since I am here in Houston for my treatment, I have looked at the > Bursynski Clinic. I have also checked into the University of Texas Medical > Branch in Galviston Texas. They have an interesting Alternative and > Integrative health plan. I seriously doubt you'll find much of anything in the United States. You may remember back in the 90s the mainstream media made an attempt to discredit alternative medicine without much success. Now they are attempting to hi-jack the term "alternative medicine" with their own clinics.
Any doctor who offers any effective cancer treatment that seriously competes with a big cash cow of mainstream medicine ends up in prison, run out of the country or dead, and even dead from the disease he claimed to cure (murdered). Any alternative cancer treatment that's going to work well you'll have to go out of the country to get it.
Simm Webb - 01 Mar 2005 21:08 GMT > The oldest, best known, most attacked and yet still standing alternative > cancer treatment is the Hoxsey treatment of which now there is only one > clinic left in Mexico. And in spite of all you have written, they still fail to properly treat cancer.
J - 01 Mar 2005 21:31 GMT > > The oldest, best known, most attacked and yet still standing alternative > > cancer treatment is the Hoxsey treatment of which now there is only one > > clinic left in Mexico. > > And in spite of all you have written, they still fail to properly treat > cancer. http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/OTA/ota04.html#Hoxsey In 1957, a committee of faculty members of the University of British Columbia conducted a review of the Hoxsey treatment and facilities (582). After visiting Hoxsey's Dallas clinic, the committee described the overall treatment regimen, along with various other aspects of the treatment (the history of the treatment, Hoxsey's claims for efficacy, and the history of Hoxsey's litigation concerning the treatment). They were particularly interested in following up on patients from British Columbia who were treated at the clinic. The clinic gave the committee members records for 78 patients from their "active" files (unbeknownst to the clinic, however, some of these patients had died). The committee was able to follow up on 71 of these patients, using British Columbia's cancer registry, death registry, and physician records. Their detailed findings were summarized as follows:
For over one-half of the [cancer] patients from British Columbia, the result [of treatment with the Hoxsey method] has been either death or progression of the disease. In nearly one-quarter there was no proof that the patient ever had cancer. Nearly one in ten of the patients had curative treatment before going to the Hoxsey Clinic. In only one case, an external cancer, was there any evidence at all that the Hoxsey treatment had an effect on the disease; in that case, better results could have been obtained by orthodox means (582).
The latter case to which they refer reportedly involved a woman with a "slow-growing cancer of the ear" who refused surgery and was treated with one of Hoxsey's external treatments. The committee reported that the treatment "did, in fact, remove the cancerous growth, along with a good deal of normal tissue." It did so "with needless pain and disfigurement," given that it could have been treated with radiation or surgery, in the committee's opinion (582). They also reported that of the 32 patients who died, "two-thirds were dead in less than six months, 90 per cent were dead within a year, and none survived two years" (582).
Hoxsey made attempts (in 1945 and 1950) to have NCI review his patients' records. On both occasions, NCI determined that the records Hoxsey submitted did not meet NCI's previously established criteria at that time for documenting treatment effects. In summary, these criteria required that Hoxsey:
* explain the composition of his herbal treatments and his regimen for treating patients; * submit complete clinical and laboratory records of at least 50 patients with internal cancer to show confirmation of the diagnosis by biopsy and objective evidence of regression of primary growth and metastases by measurement, photographs, and x-rays; and * provide proof that these patients had survived at least 5 years following treatment (418,582,984).[...]
they're "blame the patient's attitude" and/or "blame the previous conventional therapy" for their failures. J
Willcox - 02 Mar 2005 01:37 GMT > http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/OTA/ota04.html#Hoxsey > In 1957, a committee of faculty members of the University of British Columbia > conducted a review of the Hoxsey treatment and facilities (582). You really think this study was fair and balanced? Those studies typically prove whatever those paying for it want it to prove.
Hoxsey had dozens of doctors working for him and thousands of patients. Hoxsey was also subject to criminal trials, arrested over 100 times, yet never convicted. He was also the subject of congressional hearings. These were far more scrutinized than your paid "study".
Steph - 02 Mar 2005 03:05 GMT >> http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/OTA/ota04.html#Hoxsey >> In 1957, a committee of faculty members of the University of British [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You really think this study was fair and balanced? Those studies > typically prove whatever those paying for it want it to prove. I see. It wasn't fair and balanced because the results don't conform to your wishes?
Mike Radcliffe - 02 Mar 2005 08:34 GMT >> The oldest, best known, most attacked and yet still standing alternative >> cancer treatment is the Hoxsey treatment of which now there is only one >> clinic left in Mexico. And it would be great if it worked. MIKE
J - 01 Mar 2005 21:48 GMT > > I have begun to look into alternative treatment centers. I have > > found lots and lots of success stories on the net, but it is very hard [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > treat people whether or not they can pay, a promise Harry Hoxsey made at > his father's death bed (I'm sure they will insist you pay if you can). http://documents.cancer.org/232.00/ Questionable Practices at Mexican Border Clinics
> [...] > Any doctor who offers any effective cancer treatment that seriously > competes with a big cash cow of mainstream medicine ends up in prison, > run out of the country or dead, and even dead from the disease he > claimed to cure (murdered). Wot ? He treated a murderer and the murderer murdered him ! Must have been angry that he wasted his time and money... J
Willcox - 02 Mar 2005 01:37 GMT > http://documents.cancer.org/232.00/ > Questionable Practices at Mexican Border Clinics American Cancer Society??! about 85% of their revenue goes to lobbying the US congress and senate on behalf of the medical industry. Only about 10% goes towards "research", just enough that they can legally solicit donations "for cancer research".
> > Any doctor who offers any effective cancer treatment that seriously > > competes with a big cash cow of mainstream medicine ends up in prison, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Must have been angry that he wasted his time and money... > J How to murder and discredit a competitor as only very knowledgeable, corrupt doctor could do. The medical industry is 1/7th the US economy, plenty of motive there.
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