Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / February 2005
Fever therapy for cancer?
|
|
Thread rating:  |
eveline - 09 Feb 2005 18:47 GMT The British Journal of cancer has noted spontaneous regression of cancers after a hefty feverish infection. This might be explored to see if fever therapy might be a possibility to trigger these regressions. I will try to add the ink if any one is interested.
BTW Jerry, I am not a troll. I am a registered nurse, concerned about our environment. My daughter who had breast cancer was observing the spraying on the farm fields about us here, and wondering what amount was getting into our water system. My niece had a dairy farm and was exposed to many chemicals.
As many have said this is a usenet group, and I have seen MANY off topic posts here. So I guess YOU decide which ones make us trolls? If YOU do not like what I say, then I am a troll?
eveline
J - 09 Feb 2005 20:46 GMT > The British Journal of cancer has noted spontaneous regression of cancers > after a hefty feverish infection. This might be explored to see if fever > therapy might be a possibility to trigger these regressions. The BJC is a research journal - they must be looking for more research funds to dig this oldie up. The major causes of fever in cancer patients include infection, tumor (also known as paraneoplastic fever), drugs (allergic or hypersensitivity reactions), blood product transfusion, and graft-versus-host disease (GVHD).[2-8] - Source NCI
Look up "paraneoplastic fever" in Google. If cancer patients followed this theory, their cancer would progress and they would die.
Fevers can also be part of the dying process. If this theory "washed", nobody (with cancer) would ever die.
This is from the report that you are mentioning: "For the subsequent period 1987-2003, a PubMed query on case reports of spontaneous regressions/remissions/resolutions delivers 136 hits (Query, 2004) (mean 10 reports per year). Since some of the case reports covered more than one patient, we can state a small but ongoing rate of about 1-2 dozen reported cases per year over the past 40 years, with perhaps decreasing tendency."
So you want patients who are cured (50% by surgery, 40% by radiation therapy and 10% by chemo), to quit their therapies and get fevers? In exchange for 24 reported spontaneous remissions per year? And we don't even know which cancers they're referring to. Some (Steph would have to remind) are known to sometimes have spontaneous remissions..ie kidney cancer, IIRC
You're spewing dangerous information here, IMO J
J - 09 Feb 2005 20:49 GMT > I will try to add the ink if any one is interested. Don't bother. It's out there under "altie stuff" J
Guess Who - 09 Feb 2005 22:55 GMT ...
> The British Journal of cancer has noted spontaneous regression of cancers > after a hefty feverish infection. This might be explored to see if fever > therapy might be a possibility to trigger these regressions. > I will try to add the ink if any one is interested. One of my first jobs was working in the the transplant unit in the 1970's. At the time we were doing research on interferon and preventing rejection. It is now 2005 and they are still experimenting with this drug. There is a connection between cancer and immunology unfortunately, nobody has been able to make the right connection. Practioners, have seen cancer patients with tumor fever, Fever of unknown origin (FUO) in patients with cancer is a diagnosis of exclusion. If the patient is not neutropenic, and there is no source of infection or fever found despite rigorous evaluation, then the fever is likely due to the tumor. Cytokines are known to be involved in the acute phase response, and IL-1 (endogenous pyrogen) is well known to cause fevers. In addition, other cytokines are most likely involved, such as Tumor Necrosis Factor (TNF alpha and beta), interferon, and IL-6. TNF appears to work differently from IL-1, and in fact, may induce its pyrogenic activity (Arnold et al, 2001). Cancers most likely to cause tumor fever are lymphoma, solid tumors, which have metastasized to the liver or CNS, and hypernephroma (Cunha, 1996). http://www.cancersourcern.com/Nursing/CE/CECourse.cfm?courseid=133&contentid=223 49#_Toc512950680
I suspect the fever produces a cytokine which fights the cancer, I would like to see the link. Alex
J - 09 Feb 2005 23:17 GMT > .I suspect the fever produces a cytokine which fights the cancer, I would > like to see the link. Alex You've seen it, it's on the breast cancer newsgroup. J
eveline - 09 Feb 2005 23:46 GMT > ... > > The British Journal of cancer has noted spontaneous regression of cancers [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > solid tumors, which have metastasized to the liver or CNS, and hypernephroma > (Cunha, 1996). http://www.cancersourcern.com/Nursing/CE/CECourse.cfm?courseid=133&contentid=223 49#_Toc512950680
> I suspect the fever produces a cytokine which fights the cancer, I would > like to see the link. Alex > > Hi Alex, As nurse I have found that many cancer patients in the end stage are feverish. It seems to come with the disease as it progresses. Not sure if the cancer triggers the fever, that then triggers the remission - or other causes. It is worth research, though. Here is the link. http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/bjc/journal/v92/n3/abs/6602386a.html eveline
Simm Webb - 10 Feb 2005 17:37 GMT >As nurse I have found that many cancer patients in the end stage are >feverish. It seems to come with the disease as it progresses. Not sure if [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Who do you help? Patients of Jack Kevorkian? You obviously don't have a clue about cancer.
 Signature Finished my cancer, Finished my heart problems, Grateful to be back.
Eddie MD OTF
eveline - 10 Feb 2005 18:54 GMT eveline wrote:
As nurse I have found that many cancer patients in the end stage are feverish. It seems to come with the disease as it progresses. Not sure if the cancer triggers the fever, that then triggers the remission - or other causes. It is worth research, though. Here is the link.
Who do you help? Patients of Jack Kevorkian? You obviously don't have a clue about cancer.
 Signature Finished my cancer, Finished my heart problems, Grateful to be back.
Eddie MD OTFEddie,I don't know what your problem is, but I would guess your mind has been affected by your illness.I am sorry about that if it is true, but it is not appropriate to flame others on this group, for no GOOD reason. I have NOT harmed you.I have nursed and cared for MANY cancer patients and many other disease conditions over many years.What are your credentials? That you have cancer? That does not give you the right to flame innocent others.Vent your anger on the disease not those of us who have tried to help, and like me have several family members with cancer.These kind of attacks serve no one well.Respectfullyeveline
J - 10 Feb 2005 21:44 GMT Perhaps Eddie's venting frustration because there's more non-cancer patients posting here. I can't speak for him, but I'd rather be hearing from cancer patients. (updates, knowing that they're okay etc) It's too early for another roll call. Too many loons, trolls and off topics and we can't seem to get rid of them or "do right" by some here as to how to get rid of them. Or how to get people to get newsreaders and use their filters. And so it goes..another off topic post. J
Peter Moran - 10 Feb 2005 08:19 GMT > The British Journal of cancer has noted spontaneous regression of cancers > after a hefty feverish infection. This might be explored to see if fever > therapy might be a possibility to trigger these regressions. This is well-known and was the basis of Coley's toxins.
I looked into this treatment once with the following comments. I suspect this shows the most that could be expected of "fever therapy". -- Amazingly, a single-blind randomised trial of Coley's toxin that was performed in 1962. Judging from the references in this paper this is the only controlled trial that was ever done on Coley's toxins, even though they had already been in use for a remarkable seventy years. It appears that some were claiming results which others could not replicate, but that some effect was being also reported in animal studies of cancer.
This is an extraordinarily well performed trial, even using an "active placebo" in the form of typhoid vaccine for the control patients, which is remarkable for a trial performed in 1962. The authors cannot be faulted for the rigour with which the trial was done. They do not appear to have used a blinded third party to assess results, which would make the trial "double-blind", but I am inclined to trust what they say.
The results? There were nine out of 34 patients who appeared to show objective benefits. One patient with a recurrent giant cell tumour of the thyroid had a complete response and was free of cancer four years later. Eight other patients had partial or brief remissions but two of these were lost to follow up very shortly afterwards (one died of accident). The rest died of their cancers or with their cancers..
This confirms what we were taught in medical school about Coley's toxins, that some cancers do respond to them, but with no regularity or consistency.
If someone is keen to try a modality that is now mainly offered within AM, this is one that is worthy of trial (but I emphasise only if nothing better is on offer -PJM). I would offer a word of great caution. The method used in this trial was that recommended by those with good experience of the method. The dose of toxin was carefully adjusted according to the febrile (feverish) response to a toxin made from Strept pyogenes and Serratia marcescens. I would not trust most of the alternative practitioners and clincs I know anything about to be fastidious about what they used and how they used it.
It also sounds very arduous for the patients, with injections causing fever of between 102 and 104 degrees being given five days with a two day rest, and almost indefinitely in those showing response.
PS (It may also be worth pointing out that some chemotherapeutic agents are bacterial toxins.)
Peter Moran
zwalanga@yahoo.com - 10 Feb 2005 09:09 GMT Thank you for this cogent and careful analysis.
Zee
J - 11 Feb 2005 10:40 GMT > > The British Journal of cancer has noted spontaneous regression of cancers > > after a hefty feverish infection. This might be explored to see if fever [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > PS (It may also be worth pointing out that some chemotherapeutic agents are > bacterial toxins.) Meaning? It wouldn't work too close to the time that chemotherapy ended? If so, how close?
I'm "foobarred". Steve dunn's page says it's gram negative, mine was gram positive and not strep. A misery it was.. waves of shivering, lips/teeth chattering - could not speak, and uncontrollable sweating, could not see (fluids pouring out of my eyes), painful, burning ears, pain all over the body. Unable to drive nor think clearly. And a person has to have these symptoms indefinitely? I don't think so..I'd be begging for antibiotic.
So Dunn's page says that Coley's daughter claims Giant cell bone tumor, tonsil, melanoma and breast. (which are perhaps "surface tumours"). Is it injected right into the tumour? Or systemic - injected into the veins? (gordo wants to know about sclc) - his wife had an infection and I suppose is hoping that the infection might put her into remission.
Thanks Peter, if you know. And I meant to ask you if you have that on your webpages? J
, .
Peter Moran - 11 Feb 2005 21:56 GMT >> > The British Journal of cancer has noted spontaneous regression of >> > cancers [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > Meaning? It wouldn't work too close to the time that chemotherapy ended? > If so, how close? No, I merely meant that the toxins being used may have some chemotherapeutic activity, aside from any effects of the fever.
> I'm "foobarred". Steve dunn's page says it's gram negative, mine was gram > positive and not strep. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > right > into the tumour? Or systemic - injected into the veins? It was given in various ways depending on convenience. Into the cancer if possible. Intravenously otherwise. Intramuscularly if neither of those were convenient.
Coley's daughter's claims seem very odd in some ways e.g. giant cell tumours of bone are rare and usually benign yet they greatly outnumbered (57 vs 33) the much more common breast cancer in the 894 cases she is looking at and a third were classed as inoperable. I am also not sure what criteria this non-doctor would be using to define operability. Her results are really uninterpretable without more information about the patients..
> (gordo wants to know about sclc) - his wife had an infection and I suppose > is > hoping that the infection might put her into remission. > > Thanks Peter, if you know. > And I meant to ask you if you have that on your webpages? No. Do you think I should?
Peter Moran
> J > > , . J - 12 Feb 2005 01:41 GMT > "J" <lawz@anon.inv> wrote in message.. > > [quoted text clipped - 111 lines] > > Peter Moran Yes Peter, since this is being revived and given your knowledge base, I do think it would a good idea. As far as I know we only have Quackwatch and Dunn's page where he's repeating the inaccurate information of the daughter http://www.cancerguide.org/coley.html
I think that your information would be respected from both sides of the issue. However, if they decide to not resurrectate the issue (via clinical trials), please don't blame me if you end up doing all the work for nothing. Thank you very much for your replies and my best regards to you. J PS I did not snip because, further at the top, you mention giant cell tumour of the thyroid. So perhaps the daughter's information was inaccurate and it wasn't bone tumor at all. Here's Steve's page http://www.cancerguide.org/coley.html
|
|
|