Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / January 2005
german new medicine
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Alex - 10 Jan 2005 18:46 GMT http://germannewmedicine.ca/
J - 10 Jan 2005 20:22 GMT > http://germannewmedicine.ca/ September 09, 1997
COLOGNE, GERMANY -- Police have arrested a former doctor in connection with the deaths of three cancer patients who, according to the authorities, would have survived if given orthodox therapy. Ryke Geerd Hamer operates cancer clinics in various European countries including Germany, Austria, Spain, the Netherlands, Italy and Belgium. According to police, Hamer is also wanted for questioning by the Austrian police in connection with the deaths of eight others, while Spanish police have said he may be responsible for the deaths of dozens of patients. Cancer authorities believe the practitioner may have treated more than 20,000 cancer patients across Europe."
Just because someone's opened a Canadian website does not make it more valuable. There's fraud'sters in Canada too. It's the "cancer by shock or trauma" theory...bullox.
If you can filter by phrase (and body of the message), filter out that website.in case others post it here.
and/or plonk (the original post by "Alex") this email address: neue-medizin@leual.ch . Otherwise, each time you see it, ignore it and move to the next message J
Jerry - 10 Jan 2005 23:07 GMT Alex Leuthold Brünigstrasse 282 CH-6072 Sachseln Switzerland aleuthold@leual.ch
> germannewmedicine.ca Subdomain: germannewmedicine.ca Renewal-Date: 2005/04/02 Date-Approved: 2004/04/02 Date-Modified: 2004/12/01 Organization: Markolin Caroline Description: Individual Admin-Name: Caroline Markolin Admin-Title: Admin-Postal: Markolin Caroline 1938 Pérodeau Vaudreuil QC J7V 8P7 Canada Admin-Phone: 4504243656 Admin-Fax: Admin-Mailbox: d-83404zqxc@usersca3.domainsatcost.ca Tech-Name: Caroline Markolin Tech-Title: Tech-Postal: Markolin Caroline 1938 Pérodeau Vaudreuil QC J7V 8P7 Canada Tech-Phone: 4504243656 Tech-Fax: Tech-Mailbox: d-83404zqxc@usersca3.domainsatcost.ca NS1-Hostname: ns1.webhostingcanada.org NS1-Netaddress: NS2-Hostname: ns2.webhostingcanada.org NS2-Netaddress:
john - 14 Jan 2005 08:08 GMT http://www.whale.to/cancer/hamer.html
Dr Hamer had an exceptionally high success rate with his cancer therapy, by far the highest I have seen of any therapy. During one of several trials of the persecuted Dr Hamer the public prosecutor (Wiener-Neustadt in Austria) had to admit that after 4 to 5 years 6,000 out of 6,500 patients with mostly advanced cancer were still alive. That is over 90%, almost a reversal of the results to be expected after conventional treatment of advanced conditions.----Walter Last http://www.whale.to/a/last.html
> http://germannewmedicine.ca/ madiba - 14 Jan 2005 12:16 GMT > http://www.whale.to/cancer/hamer.html > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > results to be expected after conventional treatment of advanced > conditions.----Walter Last http://www.whale.to/a/last.html Please give the link to the pub. prosecutor's webpages that show this nonsense. A websearch shows its always Hamer disciples that quote this BS, never a word from the courts.
Hamer, who has been forbidden to practice since 1986 is one of the biggest criminals in medicine today. The only reason any of his cases are alive is that they were rescued by conventional medicine (or they didnt have cancer). I had to deal with one of them, a child with a Wilms tumour that that SOB watched grow so huge that it became 70% of her weight. When we got her she was skin, bones and tumour. He was still waiting for the "conflicts" he had seen in her brain CT to resolve! Thanks to chemo, operation and radiation shes a healthy adolescent today.
 Signature madiba
Eric Greene - 16 Jan 2005 01:37 GMT Glad to see you back, John. However, you haven't yet answered Greene's Cancer Paradox.... and this after accusing others of dodging the questions! Here, let me repost it for you:
>Dodging my question As long as you are accusing those of "dodging" your question - let me pose one to you and others advocating non-traditional forms of dealing with illness.
In serious discussion of intelligent life in the universe, there is what's known as the "Fermi Paradox." Drake's equation indicates that there should be some number > 1 intelligent beings in the universe and Von Neumann showed that intelligent beings should, eventually, come up with Von Neumann robots that would land on a new planet, explore the planet and, if possible, create a factory to make new robots to shoot back out into space.
Enrico Fermi posed the simple question of: "Where are they?" We see no signs of such civilizations and self-propagating robots, but if they exist, they should be able to visit most planets in the galaxy in less than a million years.
Let me formulate the alt-med version that I'll modestly call Greene's Paradox by asking: If all these non-traditional cures you advocate really work - where are the people who have been cured?
Why don't we see them on ACOR? Why don't we meet them in cancer support groups; both on and off line? Why are they not setting up web pages - with full medical documentation - extolling the benefits of Hoxsey, Gerson, Rife, laetrile, essiac tea...etc, etc, etc. Why are they not signing on to alt.support.cancer? All we ever see if anecdotal "testimonals" on web pages that are selling this stuff.
Since my own diagnosis, we have had more than 4000 patients and caregivers sign into our ACOR support group. None of the long term survivors have been "cured" by anything other than chemo, radiation and surgery. The only member of the group who fully embraced alt-med died a couple years ago.
I am active in a large, local cancer support group sponsored by a one of the hospitals in town and none of the survivors in any of the groups (breast, colon, lung, head/neck..etc) attribute their survival to non-traditional medicine.
If alt-med works as well and conventional medicine was as helpless as the advocateds would have us believe, we should have a rapidly increasing population of survivors who used nothing but alt-med.
Where are they?
Farquard P. Otto - 16 Jan 2005 14:42 GMT >I am active in a large, local cancer support group sponsored by a one of >the hospitals in town and none of the survivors in any of the groups [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > He won't answer any logical question. He will only spout off his beliefs, which he has no idea of, and pretends to know about cancer, when he has not even had a wart. He is best ignored, and let him get his jollies, then maybe he will go away.
Eric Greene - 16 Jan 2005 17:10 GMT >>I am active in a large, local cancer support group sponsored by a one of >>the hospitals in town and none of the survivors in any of the groups [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >when he has not even had a wart. >He is best ignored, and let him get his jollies, then maybe he will go away. I know, but it's fun asking him to produce the survivors of all these non-medical treatments he posts on his webpage.
If these things work so well... where are the survivors?
J - 16 Jan 2005 17:37 GMT > I know, but it's fun asking him to produce the survivors of all these > non-medical treatments he posts on his webpage. Well, Eric it may be fun for you and certainly would be helpful if/when other efforts are not in place. If Harpoon is redirecting the troll to other newsgroups, or reporting them to their newsfeed and/or ISP and I'm posting the "filters messages" to ignore/plonk the troll/loon, you are drawing them back by asking questions/responding to them.
Kind of self-defeating and others get in the mix (patients and other trolls), so it becomes never-ending problems, just what we're trying to nip in the bud. there were two trolls in this thread. john added sci.med.diseases.cancer If you must reply, take it over there, please. madiba's reply sufficed in this instance. He fixes the messes the stated "curer" messes. (that reminds me, I must remember to save his post, in case he's not around, for the next tru at that quack on this newsroup)
Since we're way offtopic here. For those reading this post out of sequence, there is no effective " german new medicine". It's some quackstuff that's been posted about here for years now. J
john - 30 Jan 2005 11:03 GMT >I know, but it's fun asking him to produce the survivors of all these >non-medical treatments he posts on his webpage.
>If these things work so well... where are the survivors? If you don't look you wont find. And who can be bothered to tell you?
http://www.whale.to/cancer/testimonies.html http://www.whale.to/cancer/melanoma1.html
Case histories from the Richardson Clinic http://credence.org/testimon/testimonrich.htm
"We went through the records and we found over five hundred of his patients who were alive and well five years after their treatment, with no cancer. And Dr. Burton didn't selectively give us these. These were "take what you want. Here are the patients I treated." So there was statistical improvement -- more so than any cancer institution in the United States could show."-Gary Null http://www.whale.to/cancer/iat.html
"The survival rate of Dr Burton's patients approximately doubled the maximum survival rate of conventionally treated patients. Had these findings pertained to a chemotherapy drug instead of IAT, massive amounts of funding would have been allocated to investigate the drug. Once again, the politics of cancer barred a potentially valuable treatment from reaching the public." --J.Diamond, M.D.
In a study of 370 cancer patients on Dr. Issels' program, 87% (322) were still alive with their cancers in regression after five years. http://www.whale.to/c/issels.html
"While paying my respects last Saturday due to Dr. Revici's death, I met a man who had 50 tumors in his liver. At least, he used to have 50 tumors. Now he has two little ones left, according to a recent scan performed elsewhere. Prior to going to the Revici Life Science Center the gentleman was waiting for a liver transplant. Now he appears to be rather normal. He says he still has some cirrosis of the liver, so he will continue treatments."--- William Kelley Eidem. http://www.whale.to/cancer/revici.html
"Professor Friedrich Douwes reported over a dozen (pancreas cancer) cures with his biologic therapy, and enzymologist Karl Ransberger had reported on 38 cases of total remission (collected by no less official than Austrian minister of health) using his world renowned Wobe-Mugos enzyme."---Dr Atkins. http://www.whale.to/c/douwes.html
In an evaluation of five-year survival rates of 153 melanoma patients. Here, 100% of Gerson therapy patients with Stage 1 & 2 cancers survived, but only 79% survive had conventional therapy. With Stage 3 cancers (regional metastases), the figures respectively were 70% and 41%; with Stage 4a (distant metastases), 39% with Gerson and 6% with conventional therapy survived. How Scientific are Orthodox Cancer Treatments? by Walter Last http://www.whale.to/cancer/gerson.html
etc
J - 30 Jan 2005 13:10 GMT > >I know, but it's fun asking him to produce the survivors of all these > >non-medical treatments he posts on his webpage. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > http://www.whale.to/cancer/testimonies.html > http://www.whale.to/cancer/melanoma1.html Is there a moron newsgroup somewhere? You could clean up the gene pool by posting (your webpages) there. J
Jerry - 16 Jan 2005 17:58 GMT > He won't answer any logical question. He will only spout off his > beliefs, which he has no idea of, and pretends to know about cancer, > when he has not even had a wart. > He is best ignored, and let him get his jollies, then maybe he will go away. I find it difficult to sit by while john rants and raves about his delusions.
There is ignorance. There is stupidity. There is john.
There is one aspect of john, which is hard to ignore. His website whalecrap.to is a portal for who's who in medical fraud. I encourage you to read his site and look at the advice he gives. Click "doctors & clinics" on this advice page: http://www.whale.to/cancer/advice.html and you will see what I mean. john is a whore for the alt med fraud industry. This goes well beyond being an annoyance. This is a frontman for criminal medical fraud. This is someone working actively to encourage patients to seek fraudulent cures. Why is he doing this? Don't know, don't care. It is just wrong. It is just unacceptable. It is just unpardonable behavior. I am hoping John Scudamore will end up in prison where he can become the convicts new girlfriend. He is most likely mentally ill or retarded. But that is no defense for criminal behavior.
Jerry Cancer patient
J - 16 Jan 2005 18:13 GMT > His website whalecrap.to is a portal for who's who in medical fraud. I sometimes wonder if he gets paid by them (for posting the web pages for them) and that's how he makes his living.
J
Simm Webb - 16 Jan 2005 21:42 GMT > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I have to agree with you whole heartedly. However, as I have observed, besides fighting the big C, all patients do have a severe allergy to mediocrity and bull droppings. This is very diffiicult to control.
Jerry - 16 Jan 2005 23:15 GMT > I have to agree with you whole heartedly. However, as I have observed, > besides fighting the big C, all patients do have a severe allergy to > mediocrity and bull droppings. This is very diffiicult to control. Simm,
I am working on an abstract to define the infrastructure of alt med and why loonies spam newsgroups. Look for it soon.
Jerry Cancer patient
PS Check your newsreader to see if posting is set to HTML, it should be Text.
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