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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / December 2004Cancer cures so elusive
I confused, sad, and discouraged with what treatments are available for those afflicted with cancer. A daughter presented with Her2neu invasive ductal cancer this last year. it was a stage 1 with no lympth node involvement. Had a lumpectomy, radiation, and chemo. Now constantly monitored for a possible return. Getting hormone type stomach injections to put her into menapause - hoping that will give her a better chance of one of the follow up medications being more effective. She now persues a strict diet and any supplements recommended by alternative medicine routines to further her chances of staying healthy. She was treated at a qualified research center in Ohio. A grand-niece ( a grade school teacher) has just been informed to get her affairs in order and stay out of the classroom - that her years of treatments and surgeries has led to naught. Now she has cancer in her thigh, her liver and her lungs. (She is in her fifties.) She has had numerous surgeries of both breasts, ovaries, tubes, skull (out side the brain) (incapsulated but malignant). She had the appropriate recommended radiations and five different sessions of chemo with various agents - the last making her extremely ill. BTW each different site a primary - not then a metastasis - until now. My son-in-law quite lucky that he had the colonoscopy and found the lesion early. No extension of the lesion found and lymph nodes clear. I had another niece (an artist) die in her fifties after numerous surgeries and treatments (in the early 1970s.) Not much seems to have changed. The artist's name was Marie, and her daughter Maryln is the one who is the teacher, and who just received the bad news. Genetics playing a part, I am sure. There is much yet to learn. eveline > I confused, sad, and discouraged with what treatments are available for > those afflicted with cancer. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > who is the teacher, and who just received the bad news. Genetics playing a > part, I am sure. ( ( ( Eveline ) ) ) I'm sorry there's so much cancer in your life. I'm sorry about the bad news. J >I confused, sad, and discouraged with what treatments are available for > those afflicted with cancer. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > alternative medicine routines to further her chances of staying healthy. > She was treated at a qualified research center in Ohio. Well with standard treatment her 10 year likelihood of survival is over 90%. It seems to me that she should simply get on with life. Hi and thanks for the reply. The constant blood tests, x-rays, abdominal injections make it hard for her to feel "free" not to worry. She is indeed getting on with her life as did Marie and Marlyn. She values every day and is taking trips as she can. Has a good job and works steadily. What can you tell me about the hormonal injections that she takes monthly that are supposed to accelerate menapause? It sounds experimental. What track record does it have to bring good results? Thanks in advance for any info you are able to provide. eveline > >I confused, sad, and discouraged with what treatments are available for > > those afflicted with cancer. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Well with standard treatment her 10 year likelihood of survival is over 90%. > It seems to me that she should simply get on with life. > Hi and thanks for the reply. The constant blood tests, x-rays, abdominal > injections make it hard for her to feel "free" not to worry. After a while, it should become "old hat" (routine). That's the impression I get from posters on the breast cancer newsgroup. Many of them "move on" with their lives. I see some on other newsgroups of interest to them. I really encourage it. I see little point in living in fear (from day to day). > She is indeed getting on with her life as did Marie and Marlyn. She values > every day and > is taking trips as she can. Has a good job and works steadily. That's good to hear. :-) > What can you tell me about the hormonal injections that she takes monthly > that are supposed to accelerate menapause? It sounds experimental. I don't think so. Maybe newer to what was known 20? years ago. There's some mentioned here. This one happens to be injection. Some are tablets. <http://www.cancerbacup.org.uk/Treatments/Hormonaltherapies/Individualhormonalthe rapies/GoserelinBreast> Hugs J As I am new here and am not acquainted with anyone, Could I ask of what your experience and back ground consists? Telling me that my daughter should move on with her life and not live in fear, is not of much help to us here. She is already dealing with this in a most courageous manner. She makes the most of each day, week and month. She, nor I, have much confidence in the methods now being used, since my niece used them all and now finds she is terminal. We accept that fact, but don't happen to like it. eveline eveline > > Hi and thanks for the reply. The constant blood tests, x-rays, abdominal > > injections make it hard for her to feel "free" not to worry. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > I don't think so. Maybe newer to what was known 20? years ago. > There's some mentioned here. This one happens to be injection. Some are tablets. <http://www.cancerbacup.org.uk/Treatments/Hormonaltherapies/Individualhormon altherapies/GoserelinBreast> > Hugs > J > As I am new here and am not acquainted with anyone, Could I ask of what > your experience and back ground consists? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > but > don't happen to like it. I can understand your daughter's feelings, breast cancer unlike other cancers are rarely cured. The most breast cancer survivors is to hope for is "no evidence of disease". There is a breast cancer support group also. I was diagnosed in 1997 was breast cancer and doing well. I also work as a RN. Most posting here are like yourself concerned about a family member with cancer, there are a few survivors here, Socks, Jerry, Lisa and myself. There are some who frequently post here who don't have a loved one dealing with cancer or a health care professional. Steph is Canadian Physician practicing radiation medicine. Mike is an Australian Hospice Nurse. Alex I guess I missed something as I still do not understand who "J' is! This is the person who posts most often and seems to be in charge of list etiquet. I appreciate your input Alex and am not just a family advocate, but have a multinodular enlarged thyroid that I have doctoring the last year with so FAR no evidence of cancer. That is what initially brought me to the group. I, too, am an RN but am retired. I respect and admire Steph's time and dedication to this group. I know he must lead a busy life. Giving to others here is admirable. His statement to me that my daughter has 90% chance of survival of ten years, is not very comforting at all though. She is a beautiful, talented young woman of 41, and that would just get her to about 50 years of age. eveline <<<<<<<<<<<<<< > > As I am new here and am not acquainted with anyone, Could I ask of what > > your experience and back ground consists? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > practicing radiation medicine. Mike is an Australian Hospice Nurse. > Alex >I guess I missed something as I still do not understand who "J' is! This is > the person who posts most often and seems to be in charge of list etiquet. [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > eveline Eveline, You are getting hold of the wrong end of the stick 1) A 90% chance of survival of 10 years doesn't mean you drop dead at 11 years..........the 90% who survive 10 years have a 90% chance of surviving another 10 years. 2) I hate to see fit, healthy people with very good prognosis diseases spend the rest of their lives lurching from one test and one doctor's appointment to another. We all have a responsibility and a right to get on with life. 3) Whatever the prognosis for a particular cancer, sometimes we can do something to affect those odds, and sometimes not. The things we can't affect aren't worth worrying about. 4) I could get hit by a bus tomorrow............ >> 2) I hate to see fit, healthy people with very good prognosis diseases >> spend > the rest of their lives lurching from one test and one doctor's > appointment to another. We all have a responsibility and a right to get on > with life. Even with a good prognosis, breast cancer can effect your life , even if you try to ignore it, A. you must go to oncologist anywhere from 2-3 year, this is in addition to your regular medical care. B. You must have yearly mammograms, and anything suspect is examined and re-examined. Last year I had a false alarm, had to see my pcp, onc, gyn, surgeon, and had to have an ultrasound...it is very hard to explain all this time off from work without mentioning the word cancer. C. Now they are recommending bone density scans for pre menopausal women with breast cancer who had chemo, yet another 2 appointments to deal with bone density issues. That is 10 appointments PLUS I had to deal with breast cancer 7 years after my inital treatment. It can be hard to forget and get on with life. And I have no evidence of disease, but who knows, I have never had any diagnostic exams other than mammogram, ultrasound and a chest xray done in 1997. It is easy for one to say just move on with life, but it comes back to haunt you. >>> 2) I hate to see fit, healthy people with very good prognosis diseases >>> spend [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > 1997. It is easy for one to say just move on with life, but it comes back > to haunt you. Nobody can make you do anything. There is evidencce that annual mammograms are useful, but very little evidence that any other follow up is useful. Women with early stage breast cancer have a VERY good prognosis. My point is that the worry that many patients feel is entirely disproportionate. Unfortunately, we oncologists don't help......... > I, too, am an RN but am retired. > I respect and admire Steph's time and dedication to this group. I know he > must lead a busy life. Giving to others here is admirable. I'm grateful for all who positively contribute to this group, professional or not. In fact, Alayne was poster of the month for November, according to Google. She contributes a lot of valuable time here and there's more... J > "Guess Who" <guesswho@guesswho.com> wrote in message > or a health care professional. Steph is Canadian Physician > > practicing radiation medicine. Mike is an Australian Hospice Nurse. > > Alex >I guess I missed something as I still do not understand who "J' is! This is > the person who posts most often and seems to be in charge of list etiquet. Eveline, I wish your daughter the best. I'm 40, I had cervical cancer at 29. And now dealing with thyroid cancer. Yes it is to young. My FIL has lung cancer. Being that you are an RN, I'm sure you can be a lot of help here. And invite your daughter to join us. This is a wonderful support group. Now that being said: J is a God send to this NG. J is always here for all of us. The reason J post so much, is because she cares so much. She finds us, as much info as she can. And always there with warm hugs and positive attitude. And her only reward is hugs in return. And I admire her greatly for giving that much of herself.. ((((Eveline)))) Jill > J is a God send to this NG. J is always here for all of us. > The reason J post so much, is because she cares so much. > She finds us, as much info as she can. And always there with > warm hugs and positive attitude. > And her only reward is hugs in return. And I admire her greatly > for giving that much of herself.. Thanks luv, I wish you and your hubby and FIL the bestest Chrstmas ever. And I'll be watching for your post next week, before you go for surgery. Many hugs, sweet Jill. J >> J is a God send to this NG. J is always here for all of us. >> The reason J post so much, is because she cares so much. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Many hugs, sweet Jill. > J Right back at you Sister. Hugs, Jill > Telling me that my daughter should move on with her life and not live in > fear, is not of much help to us here. You're right. My apologies. You and your daughter have a right to your feelings. J you wont find anything on alternatives here, there is a pharma shill called "J" who is doing her best to suppress any alternative medicine here, her latest attempt is to complain to my ISP to get my service withdrawn. Even though 600,000? people die of cancer every year she thinks I am leading people to their death by offering alternatives!, even though 98% of cancers are incurable by chemo according to Ralph Moss, but it just shows these people will stop at nothing to suppress the fact they have a medical monopoly and, in effect, enforce chemotherapy on people, and have suppressed the cures and cause http://www.whale.to/a/cancer_c.html Not forgetting the 780,000 people killed by medical mistakes every year http://www.whale.to/a/dean.html I would too, when folk wake up and see how they have been shafted http://www.whale.to/a/hoaxmed.html You can get most of the alternative medicine for cancer here, including the alternative advice groups, along with the politics of medicine http://www.whale.to/cancer.html > I confused, sad, and discouraged with what treatments are available for > those afflicted with cancer. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > eveline > you wont find anything on alternatives here, there is a pharma shill called > "J" who is doing her best to suppress any alternative medicine here, her > latest attempt is to complain to my ISP to get my service withdrawn. I did not. we have a team to fight off quacks like you. J John, I do not believe in censoring posters, but I dislike to see you encouraging those here ill with cancer to depart from conventional treatments. These have gone through clinical trials and frankly are the best treatments available as they emerge. Trying to seek out other methods of improving a person's health status such as taking green tea or other harmless supplements has merit, but some of the things promoted out there can actually be harmful. (Especially if the person gives up conventional methods) As far as I am concerned, the researchers have a 'way to go' to get a handle on cancer. I do believe there are some more hopeful drugs and methods in the pipeline. eveline eveline > you wont find anything on alternatives here, there is a pharma shill called > "J" who is doing her best to suppress any alternative medicine here, her [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > > > > eveline > ou wont find anything on alternatives here, there is a pharma shill called > "J" who is doing her best to suppress any alternative medicine here, her > latest attempt is to complain to my ISP to get my service withdrawn. John, I filed that complaint and will continue to file complaints until you stop the Ad Hominem and verbal attacks against group members. You owe J an apology. > Even though 600,000? people die of cancer every year she thinks I am leading > people to their death by offering alternatives!, even though 98% of cancers [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 780,000 people killed by medical mistakes every year > http://www.xxxx.yy/a/dean.html Ralph Moss is a QUACK. Alternative medicine is a misnomer. There is conventional medicine which has been proven effective in clinical trial and peer review. There are other forms of medicine (alternative) that claim to be effective but can not or will not pass clinical trial and peer review. All of the medical conspiracy crap you espouse fails to overcome the facts. Your web site, your statistics, and your posts are worthless nonsense. > <nonsense snipped> John. if you have any complaints--adjust your tin foil hat so that the government can not listen in--you may email me at H2G5C7M1K9A8 at bellsouth dot net. I would be glad to take this discussion offline. Diagnosed with Bilateral Renal Cell Carcinoma in 2000. Doing well with conventional medicine in 2004. Jerry > I confused, sad, and discouraged with what treatments are available for > those afflicted with cancer. you want to find some success with cancer - look at long term cancer survivors ... the ones who have a history of malignant and metastatic cancer lets say ... and they are alive with 20 - 40 - 60 years of recovery and living a life they love ... ones emotional intelligence and ones emotional compass seems to be the biggest determination of long term survival from what I can see in the fact pattern ... better emotional IQ and better emotional compass use ... better life with cancer ... your cure is not to be found in a bottle ... trust me on this one ... sumbuddie on da watchtower :) > I confused, sad, and discouraged with what treatments are available for > those afflicted with cancer. The cure for cancer died of politics. Considering how many people spend big money taking chemo and die anyway, you'd think they could ease up on the cancer laws. What's it going to hurt? > The cure for cancer died of politics. Cancer is a general term for more than 100 diseases characterized by abnormal and uncontrolled growth of cells. There is no single "cure" for these diseases. Instead of complaining about politics get up and do something about it. > Considering how many people spend big money taking chemo and die anyway, > you'd think they could ease up on the cancer laws. What's it going to > hurt? This is ridiculous and insensitive. You should be ashamed to write such drivel. Jerry > > The cure for cancer died of politics. > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Jerry Just what exactly is so insensitive about it? >>> The cure for cancer died of politics. >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Just what exactly is so insensitive about it? All of it! Jerry >Considering how many people spend big money taking chemo and die anyway, >you'd think they could ease up on the cancer laws. Exactly what "cancer laws" are you referring to? > >Considering how many people spend big money taking chemo and die anyway, > >you'd think they could ease up on the cancer laws. > > Exactly what "cancer laws" are you referring to? You can go to jail for saying "cure for cancer". >> >Considering how many people spend big money taking chemo and die anyway, >> >you'd think they could ease up on the cancer laws. >> >> Exactly what "cancer laws" are you referring to? > >You can go to jail for saying "cure for cancer". Only if you can't prove it. >You can go to jail for saying "cure for cancer". Only if you can't prove it. No, it is illegal for non-medical doctors to treat cancer or say anything about any remedy, so it is illegal, in effect, to treat cancer with herbs, or for a herbalist, naturopath, chiropractor, or hemeopath to treat cancer or say anything about their medicine in its healing effect http://www.whale.to/a/outlaw.html "Medicine in our country has been on a crusade over the last 100 years to wipe out every other form of medicine. One of the things they did that was unique was they lobbied to make words legal only for them to use. Today in the US, only a medical doctor can diagnose a disease, prescribe something, and cure you. Nobody else can say "diagnose", "prescribe" and "cure". That means that nobody can cure you but a medical doctor..I can't say "Chaparral is the cure for a tumour". I can't say garlic is the cure for cholestrol or high blood pressure. They have made the laws. So that makes me look stupid, impotent, and it makes the herbs look weak and wimpy. I can't as a herbalist, say that an herb will cure, even though a lot of prescription drugs are made from herbs. This was a tactic by organised medicine to wipe out the opposition, by making them look silly and impotent.they have the words.they control the high ground. They can walk out and say, "Yes, if you take this drug, you will cure yourself." But they hired lawyers and got the government behind them. If I say that I go to jail. It isn't because the herbs don't work and the drugs are better, it's just because they have more money, they lobbied more and got the law passed in their favour. That is why people get this idea that herbs don't cure you."-Dr Shulze. Uh oh! J should ask everyone to report this to their ISP or at the least to check her FAQ. FLLLLLLLBBBBBTTTTTT!!!!! Marty from Oz (who hasthe spine to let you know who he is) >>You can go to jail for saying "cure for cancer". > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > more and got the law passed in their favour. That is why people get this > idea that herbs don't cure you."-Dr Shulze. > Uh oh! J should ask everyone to report this to their ISP or at the least to > check her FAQ. FLLLLLLLBBBBBTTTTTT!!!!! > Marty from Oz (who hasthe spine to let you know > who he is) Jerry authored the FAQ. It belongs to alt.support.cancer. You don't ask who he is.... J Ok... who is Jerry? > Ok... who is Jerry? -------- Original Message -------- Path: internal1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!199.218.7.141!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: "J" <burglar_of_turds@yahoo.com> Newsgroups: alt.support.cancer Subject: Re: Cancer cures so elusive Date: 28 Dec 2004 12:55:48 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 2 Message-ID: <1104267348.129627.101060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <10sjimcemfh0h43@corp.supernews.com><1gpdgdz.1c3mmaeo6zbohN%not_giving@you.my.address.com><20041227081853.16056.00002466@mb-m02.aol.com><1gpgfn4.5rfebe17n7sbkN%not_giving@you.my.address.com><ptv0t0p413neclrknqc9ldstvu7io88sia@4ax.com><cqr6vk$38u$1@sparta.btinternet.com><41d16160@news.comindico.com.au><41D16414.CBD872D8@execulink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.167.129.172 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1104267352 31443 127.0.0.1 (28 Dec 2004 20:55:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:55:52 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <41D16414.CBD872D8@execulink.com> User-Agent: G2/0.2 Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com; posting-host=66.167.129.172;posting-account=EM1fIg0AAADt6_hCtpQH6wav6rWlIpNR Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.support.cancer:100912 Ok... who is Jerry? Correction. It's Marty from Oz He's ticked at Jerry for telling him to leave this newsgroup alone. > > Ok... who is Jerry? > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > Ok... who is Jerry? > Ok... who is Jerry? yawwwn.....we've btdt before..you're sophomoically boring. grow up J wrote: > Ok... who is Jerry? http://www.google.com/googlegroups/terms_of_service.html Google Groups Beta Terms of Use impersonate another person or entity > Ok... who is Jerry? J Imposter! Please email a complaint to covad. AbuseName: Covad abuse reporting team AbusePhone: +1-703-376-2830 AbuseEmail: abuse-isp@covad.com Include the headers: Path: uni-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!postnews.google.com!f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail From: "J" <burglar_of_turds@yahoo.com> Newsgroups: alt.support.cancer Subject: Re: Cancer cures so elusive Date: 28 Dec 2004 12:55:48 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 2 Message-ID: <1104267348.129627.101060@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <10sjimcemfh0h43@corp.supernews.com> <1gpdgdz.1c3mmaeo6zbohN%not_giving@you.my.address.com> <20041227081853.16056.00002466@mb-m02.aol.com> <1gpgfn4.5rfebe17n7sbkN%not_giving@you.my.address.com> <ptv0t0p413neclrknqc9ldstvu7io88sia@4ax.com> <cqr6vk$38u$1@sparta.btinternet.com> <41d16160@news.comindico.com.au> <41D16414.CBD872D8@execulink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.167.129.172 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1104267352 31443 127.0.0.1 (28 Dec 2004 20:55:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 20:55:52 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <41D16414.CBD872D8@execulink.com> User-Agent: G2/0.2 Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com; posting-host=66.167.129.172; posting-account=EM1fIg0AAADt6_hCtpQH6wav6rWlIpNR Xref: uni-berlin.de alt.support.cancer:113915 Ok... who is Jerry? > > Ok... who is Jerry? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Include the headers: Thanks Jerry, done on both, J When are you going to start talking through your mouth? >Ok... who is Jerry? Grateful to be back. Eddie MD OTF > Marty from Oz (who hasthe spine to let you know who he is) And doesn't have the guts/time to be a supporter..just a troublemaker (is your history) J Check my history. I didn't say boo until I was being harassed for celebrating a small victory over cancer. I have it and not ashamed to admit it. I am proud to be in a position to encourage others without all the bull. Marty from Oz >> Marty from Oz (who hasthe spine to let you know who he is) > > And doesn't have the guts/time to be a supporter..just a troublemaker (is > your > history) > J >>You can go to jail for saying "cure for cancer". > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >or say anything about their medicine in its healing effect >http://www.goheretodie.to/a/outlaw.html Exactly what I said. They can't prove they can cure cancer, so it's against the law for them to make such claims. Should they be allowed to claim they CAN cure cancer without proving that fact? Why is this so difficult for you to understand? >> >Considering how many people spend big money taking chemo and die anyway, >> >you'd think they could ease up on the cancer laws. >> >> Exactly what "cancer laws" are you referring to? > > You can go to jail for saying "cure for cancer". No, I say it every week in my clinic. You can go to jail for defrauding desperate people though >> I confused, sad, and discouraged with what treatments are available for >> those afflicted with cancer. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >you'd think they could ease up on the cancer laws. What's it going to >hurt? One of the big differences between conventional and "alternative" medicine is conventional publishes exactly how many die each year after taking conventional treatments for each stage of a particular cancer diagnosis. This information is easily available to the public on a host of web pages and journals. I have yet to see the "alternative medicine" shills make equally available such treatments in a peer-reviewed or substantiated form. How many people, for example, were treated in the various laetrile clinics in Mexico and what are the survival statistics for 5 years. How many of the survivors used conventional treatment along with laetrile and how many were treated with laetrile alone? All you can find are anecdotal "success stories" that give no hard data on number of patients vs. treatments vs. survival rates. Where is the data? Until the altmed people share this data, there is no reason to believe alternative medicine does anything for cancer patients. |
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