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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / December 2004

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Cancer advice

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john - 20 Dec 2004 17:19 GMT
Ruth Sackman, Foundation For Advancement in Cancer Therapies, PO Box 1242,
Old Chelsea Station, New York, NY 10013. 212 741 2790  Free Advice
www.fact-ltd.org
J - 20 Dec 2004 18:18 GMT
>  Ruth Sackman, Foundation For Advancement in Cancer Therapies, PO Box 1242,
> Old Chelsea Station, New York, NY 10013. 212 741 2790  Free Advice
> www.fact-ltd.org

What ? she hasn't been arrested yet?
J
john - 20 Dec 2004 20:02 GMT
> What ? she hasn't been arrested yet?
> J

Saving lives for over 30 years, while you just push people towards the
killer monopoly therapies--you need arresting, and given chemo & radiation.

This is one lecture she organised 30 years ago
http://www.whale.to/cancer/k/lecture.html

Dr Kelley had one answer to cancer over 30 years ago
http://www.whale.to/cancer/kelley.html

100% cure rate for pancreatic cancer, which your lot can't even touch.
"First, the stricken cancer victim and their family members have been so
deceived by the Establishment that they are completely brainwashed and put
in overwhelming fear."----Dr Kelly DDS
J - 20 Dec 2004 20:18 GMT
> 100% cure rate for pancreatic cancer, which your lot can't even touch.

<http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct/gui/c/a1b/show/NCT00003851?order=1&JServSession
Idzone_ct=3lf9lc3r71>J


Gemcitabine Compared With Pancreatic Enzyme Therapy Plus Specialized Diet
(Gonzalez Regimen) in Treating Patients Who Have Stage II, Stage III, or Stage
IV Pancreatic Cancer

This study is currently recruiting patients.
john - 20 Dec 2004 21:06 GMT
> This study is currently recruiting patients.

More guinea pigs for the slaughter

"We have a multi-billion dollar industry that is killing people, right and
left, just for financial gain. Their idea of research is to see whether two
doses of this poison is better than three doses of that poison."-Glen
Warner, M.D. oncologist.

In this study (Gonzalez), a total of 22 Kelley pancreatic cancer patients
properly diagnosed by the orthodox medical community were broken down into
three groups based on their level of following Kelley's protocol. The median
survival of the three groups is shown as:

       Unit One: Ten patients never followed the protocol: average survival
67 days.

       Unit Two: Seven patients followcd the protocol partially, avcragc
233 days survival.

       Unit Three: The five patients which followed Kelley's protocol
completely achieved an average of nine years survival.

In fact, all five were still alive at the time of the study except one
patient who had died (of Alzheimer's) after 11.5 years.

One Answer To Cancer by William Kelley, D.D.S., M.S. www.drkelley.com
http://www.whale.to/cancer/pancreas.html

High Dose Intravenous Vitamin C and Long Time Survival of a Patient With
Cancer of Head of the Pancreas
http://www.healthy.net/library/articles/jom/vita10-2.htm

http://www.mediafocus.com/cancer.htm

ESSIAC  I have a site with a number of success stories of pancreatic
cancer,even a doctor who had it in 1994, and recovered to return to work
within6 months and has been disease free since.The web site is
http://www.iinet.net.au/~essiac/can-t.htm

"Professor Friedrich Douwes reported over a dozen (pancreas cancer)   cures
with his biologic therapy, and enzymologist Karl Ransberger had reported on
38 cases of total remission (collected by no less official than Austrian
minister of health) using his world renowned Wobe-Mugos enzyme."---Dr
Atkins.
J - 20 Dec 2004 21:14 GMT
> > This study is currently recruiting patients.
>
> More guinea pigs for the slaughter

It's the same damned "cure" that you're pushing on your webpage.
So now you admit that your altie stuff is for guinea pigs.
J
HB Lites - 21 Dec 2004 00:57 GMT
>  Unit One: Ten patients never followed the protocol: average survival
>67 days.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>In fact, all five were still alive at the time of the study except one
>patient who had died (of Alzheimer's) after 11.5 years.

Oh, that's crap. IT"S NOT A CURE

It's just another therapy in clinical trial, and the early trial results seem
comparable to other treatments for pancreatic cancer in clinical trial. In
other words, like a lot of more conventional therapies, it can extend life but
it IS NOT A CURE

Here's the results of the pilot study from Gonzalez's own freakin' website.

"As of 12 January 1999, of 11 patients entered into the study, 9 (81%) survived
one year, 5 (45%) survived two years, and at this time, 4 have survived three
years. Two patients are alive and doing well: one at three years and the other
at four years."

Not bad for pancreatic cancer, but hardly 100% and I feel that this sort of
early study tends to be biased towards survival through selective patient
selection. I looked at Gonzales/Kelley briefly after Chris was diagnosed ( at
the suggestion of my personal physician, who knew about the clinical trial).
Other informal studies have been conducted since the pilot study and I think
once I balanced all that I read I felt the median survival was probably about a
year.

But the quality of life was the REAL issue, and 4 coffee enemas a day combined
with a highly restrictive macrobiotic diet was a real deal-breaker and it just
didn't seem worth it, because IT"S NOT A CURE.
john - 21 Dec 2004 16:50 GMT
> other words, like a lot of more conventional therapies, it can extend life but
> it IS NOT A CURE

I admire your faith in trusting the medical industry and Gonzalez, I never
felt I could trust him when Dr Kelley made this comment: "A Cornell medical
student, Gonzalez, who had failed after the second year in medical school,
was wandering in and out of the unorthodox medical community looking for
help for his own mental instability and illness. During this fruitless
search, Gonzalez stumbled onto the Kelley Program, which he mentioned to his
psychiatrist"

When he then looked at the Kelley case histories he commented:

"I found these results, particularly for pancreatic, quite intriguing. His
overall survival rate for all cancer in this first group is 93% - and I have
found, going through Dr. Kelley's records, virtually all of his patients
have advanced disease. Many have come to him because no further conventional
treatment could be offered."

So he must be incompetent if he can't reproduce Dr Kelley's results.

And they have a history of fraud:
"Two alleged trials took place under the direction of Dr. Charles Moertel at
the Mayo Clinic. However as one might expect from a proven swindler
operating at such a dishonoured location, these bore little resemblence to
scientific methodology.    Moertel cooked the first trial.by packing the
trial with patients whose immune systems had already been destroyed by toxic
chemotherapy. He then rigged the second trial by treating the patients with
ascorbate for only two and a half months and then continuing with the
"trial" for another 2 years. He then issued a perjured press statement in
which he announced that vitamin C therapy had been proven ineffective,
carefully concealing the fact that he had almost certainly caused the death
of several patients by reason of this iniquitous fraud. The resulting
carefully devised publicity on the subject also caused the deaths of several
other patients who had been happily surviving on ascorbate."---Dr Richards &
Frank Hourigan.

"This man (Moertel) of the Mayo Clinic, no less..had the effrontery to
defend the employment of two toxic preparations, with no curative value, in
cases of metastasised intestinal cancer lest they (the patients) otherwise
seek it (hope) from the hands of quacks and charlatans. In other words
Moertel urged the use of a hramful substance of no value.on patients who
are, presumably, paying a fee for their therapy,.and are hoping for a
cure,.just to keep some other therapist from trying to save them!...(you)
can find a permanent record of the distinguished Dr. Moertel's
recommendations in the New England Journal of Medicine, 1978."-Dr Richards &
Frank Hourigan.

And Kelley is similar to Gerson, he was curing, according to Frank Hourigan
who I have talked to--he did the research for Dr Richards:

"It is well established that a properly conducted Gerson therapy will rescue
50% of terminal patients.  Gerson was curing 50% terminal cancers, and 100%
stage 1 and 2 cancers."-- Frank Hourigan.

and a recent study found:

In an evaluation of five-year survival rates of 153 melanoma patients. Here,
100% of Gerson therapy patients with Stage 1 & 2 cancers survived, but only
79% survive had conventional therapy. With Stage 3 cancers (regional
metastases), the figures respectively were 70% and 41%; with Stage 4a
(distant metastases), 39% with Gerson and 6% with conventional therapy
survived. How Scientific are Orthodox Cancer Treatments? by Walter Last

And it is well proven chemo doesn't touch most cancers, and seeing as Gerson
said the main body condition that leads to cancer is a dodgy liver, I would
have thought it unwise to give a toxic drug for the liver to deal with.
J - 23 Dec 2004 08:25 GMT
> It's just another therapy in clinical trial, and the early trial results seem
> comparable to other treatments for pancreatic cancer in clinical trial. In
> other words, like a lot of more conventional therapies, it can extend life but
> it IS NOT A CURE

I rather doubt that it will even be proven to extend life, by any substantial
amount.
Apparently those in clinical trials often do a bit better. I forget why that is.

> Here's the results of the pilot study from Gonzalez's own freakin' website.
>
> "As of 12 January 1999, of 11 patients entered into the study, 9 (81%) survived
> one year, 5 (45%) survived two years, and at this time, 4 have survived three
> years. Two patients are alive and doing well: one at three years and the other
> at four years."

It would be important to know which type of pancreatic cancers each had, which were
resected, and stage (where else it had spread or hadn't) or what other surgeries
they'd had done.  Long term survivors - 3 or 4 years are rarer.
AFAIK
J
HB Lites - 24 Dec 2004 13:41 GMT
>> It's just another therapy in clinical trial, and the early trial results
>seem
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>Apparently those in clinical trials often do a bit better. I forget why that
>is.

My theories ( at least with regard to pancreatic cancer

1. When interviewing people for these trials, doctors may (consciously or
unconsciously) ecourage patients that they feel will do well and dissuade
patients that they don't feel will do as well. I think this is especially true
in the pilot studies where patients are hand-picked.

2. The average survival of those with untreated pancreatic cancer is 3-4
months. Most trials require that a patient have a Karnofsky performance status
of at least 70% and many require an estimated life-span of at least 3 months at
time of enrollment.  It takes a certain amount of time to find and enroll in a
trial. These automatically weeds out those patients at the lower end of the
curve , as a fairly significant number of pc patients die a month or two  after
diagnosis. In other words, these trials are enrolling people that are *already*
beating the odds.

3. Well-educated upper-middle class people are probably both more likely to get
an earlier diagnosis and to find and enroll in clinical trials. This can skew
survival rates significantly, as survival is measured from time of diagnosis.
If you take two patients with hypothetically identical cancers, and one is
diagnosed with Pancreatic stage 4B in March and the other, because of less
access to good medical care isn't diagnosed with stage 4B until May, the first
one will be considered to have survived 2 months longer than the second if they
both die on the same day.

>> Here's the results of the pilot study from Gonzalez's own freakin' website.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>other
>> at four years."

J, I really wish that when you quoted this from me, you would have also quoted
the sentence below where I said I felt these results were biased and other
studies on this were much less successful. For the record I think this
"therapy" is bullshit and if there is any survival benefit it can be
attributted to the fact that even God needs a laugh sometimes.

>It would be important to know which type of pancreatic cancers each had,
>which were
>resected, and stage (where else it had spread or hadn't) or what other
>surgeries
>they'd had done.  Long term survivors - 3 or 4 years are rarer.

Of course. With studies on this treatment I would also want to know about
patients dropped for "non-complicance"....if you can be dropped when you get
too sick to force a gallon of coffee up your a.s every day, the results would
be virtually meaningless
Simm Webb - 21 Dec 2004 01:29 GMT
>> What ? she hasn't been arrested yet?
>> J
>
>Saving lives for over 30 years, while you just push people towards the
>killer monopoly therapies--you need arresting, and given chemo & radiation.

NAME SOME!!!!

Be truthful, don't give us a list of tombstones.

Grateful to be back.

Eddie MD OTF
john - 21 Dec 2004 16:54 GMT
"Simm Webb" <edvanhuffeI@cox.net> wrote in message

> NAME SOME!!!!
>
> Be truthful, don't give us a list of tombstones.

http://www.whale.to/cancer/k/Ch10.html
J - 21 Dec 2004 18:51 GMT
> http://www.whale.to/cancer/k/Ch10.html

Since cancer afflicts 25% or more of the earth's population and about a
half
of these die from it with present treatment methods, it is of intense
interest to all to know whether "alternative" treatments work for cancer.
Not only that, but their promorters are often charging huge sums of money
for their treatments.

It is no longer good enough to have them promoted with misleading
testimonials like most of these. Neither of two primary breast cancer
patients had biopsies, and when it is known how common benign breast lumps

and cysts are, and how common it is for them to come and go of their own
accord, such testimonials are useless.   Of course a dentist would not
know this, and would be quite happy to go on believing he has cured yet
another cancer.

Other patients received conventional treatment such as chemotherapy and
radiotherapy which could have explained benefits.

Kelley's own testimonial is an example of a general standard.   It
contains
a number of ridiculous statements about cancer (e.g. that it commonly
causes
herniae), he also had no biopsies, and his symptoms could well have been
explained by the severe depression he had at the time.

Peter Moran
J - 21 Dec 2004 19:23 GMT
> http://www.whale.to/cancer/k/Ch10.html

Winner of the Internet's Misinformation site of the year.
john - 21 Dec 2004 21:42 GMT
> > http://www.whale.to/cancer/k/Ch10.html
>
> Winner of the Internet's Misinformation site of the year.

So Peter Moron is J.  Who pays your wages?
J - 21 Dec 2004 22:42 GMT
> > > http://www.whale.to/cancer/k/Ch10.html
> >
> > Winner of the Internet's Misinformation site of the year.
>
> So Peter Moron is J.  Who pays your wages?

I'm no more Peter Moran than you are Ralph Moss. You quote him. I quote
Peter.
Answer # 2 - nobody on your "grudge list", so MYOB
J
J - 21 Dec 2004 18:34 GMT
> NAME SOME!!!!
>
> Be truthful, don't give us a list of tombstones.

Why would you ask him anything Eddie?
What got rid of your cancer?
J
Simm Webb - 22 Dec 2004 01:45 GMT
It sure wasn't any of his crap.

>> NAME SOME!!!!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>What got rid of your cancer?
>J

Grateful to be back.

Eddie MD OTF
J - 23 Dec 2004 08:14 GMT
> It sure wasn't any of his crap.

Thanks Eddie. That's good to read.
J
J - 20 Dec 2004 20:14 GMT
>  Ruth Sackman, Foundation For Advancement in Cancer Therapies, PO Box 1242,
> Old Chelsea Station, New York, NY 10013. 212 741 2790  Free Advice
> www.fact-ltd.org

Bring Richard Mott and Louise Greenfield here (testimonials on that website).
Let's see if they're still alive. I challenge you to bring them here with their
scans, biopsy reports and medical records.
J
john - 20 Dec 2004 21:03 GMT
> Bring Richard Mott and Louise Greenfield here (testimonials on that website).
> Let's see if they're still alive. I challenge you to bring them here with their
> scans, biopsy reports and medical records.
> J

I don't work for them, or live in USA, so get off your fat arse and ask them
yourself.

Here are some Kelley testimonials to go with those
http://www.whale.to/cancer/k/Ch10.html
J - 20 Dec 2004 21:13 GMT
> Here are some Kelley testimonials to go with those

testimonials are useless...
J
J - 23 Dec 2004 00:23 GMT
If anyone else wants to try reporting him....

To: <abuse@btopenworld.com>

BT Yahoo you have a dial-up subscriber that posts links to his web site
whale.to in violation of alt.support.cancer Charter and Usenet AUP. John
does not have cancer. John does flood the newsgroup with his posts, nearly
all of them have nothing to do with cancer support. Many are outside of the
topic for the newsgroup.

Please enforce your Usenet AUP.

-------- Original Message --------
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Subject: Cancer advice
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2004 17:19:20 +0000 (UTC)
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Ruth Sackman, Foundation For Advancement in Cancer Therapies, PO Box 1242,
Old Chelsea Station, New York, NY 10013. 212 741 2790  Free Advice
www.fact-ltd.org
 
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