Hmmm.  I see.  Regardless of whether or not I agree with anything Sue
or anyone else has to say the Rulemeister routine in an Alt hierarchy
group is very off-putting.  This newsgroup could be a great deal more
useful than it is.  As long as J views it as "their" group it will
remain essentially a stagnant forum for link postings and article
excerpts interspersed with some scoldings and spates of support for
those who have been deemed worthy of it.  It's really too bad, since
it seems to stem from a heartfelt desire to help.

The 'net is varied place, and there are other venues for support and
information without the heavy handed tactics.  I'll leave J and her
retinue to ASC.

Best of luck and health to all,
Carmen

From: MeanMachine@example.com (J)
Daffman wrote:

I think Sue wants to be able to tell us about
she has Stage III breast cancer, has had surgery and radiation therapy.

-----------------

She has abandoned adjuvant conventional treatments.

[Su_Texas writes:  The estrogen-blockers (Arimidex) given me following
chemo, & before rads, made me very ill,...  & after about a year, they
caused sudden acute lymphedema, which kept getting worse.  

For that year, my body, muscles/joints/etc, had been very inflamed,
burning & itching, painful.  Extreme short-term memory loss, dizziness &
nausea.  No quality of life.

After about a year & a half, when the Arimidex had almost killed me, I
had to stop taking it.  None of the other estrogen-blockers worked, &
they made me very sick.  (However, I might try Tamoxifen again.)

Since then, I've been trying to find medical care for cancer, as well as
basic medical care, & can't.  

The regular docs say: "Give up. Don't try.", ... so why should I keep
believing in them & their way?  They refuse to consider nutrition,
supplements, better bloodwork & testing, or anything else.  

This is NOT good medical care.]

--------------

J:  She has very little good to say about chemos, conventional medicine,
doctors and traditional healthcare.

Her agenda is to seek alt-treatments yet be followed by conventional
doctors (so that her insurance will cover that).

[Su_Texas writes:  My agenda is to say what happened to me, when I went
through conventional/traditional cancer care, ... to warn other women of
where the benefits & dangers might be, ... so they can read, ask the
docs more questions, & make better choices for themselves.

There's so much I don't know, & I very much wish I had a medical degree
so I could understand & do more, & so I could help myself.]

---------------

J;  For example, she wants "copper testing" (and other unusual bloodwork
http://tinyurl.com/yso8o ) to be covered by her insurance and a
conventional doctor to tell her what she should do or what the test
results mean. Good luck to her ! IMO

[Su_Texas writes:  Better bloodwork, testing & diagnosis, are very
important when dealing with serious diseases, yet most doctors won't do
this. ?!  

The docs say they don't want to offend the govt or insurance companies,
by doing anything extra, ... that they'd be put out of business if they
gave good testing & care, because it's too expensive.

After chemo & rads, there's no test (bloodwork) to show the cancer is
gone, to show whether the treatments worked or not.  You're declared
"cured" if the treatments didn't kill you.  This doesn't make sense!]

--------------

J:  She's been "ranting" about that on numerous newsgroups for several
(if not more) years.

[Su_Texas writes:  Yes J, I now realize you're very cold, uncaring, &
vicious towards those people who've been through traditional cancer
care, & had problems with it.  It just doesn't fit in with your fantasy
world.]

---------------

J:  She has no respect for most or perhaps any conventional doctors.
http://tinyurl.com/25txh just take a peek at the summaries, no need to
read each post.

[Su_Texas writes:  I have no respect for any doctor who acts badly.  I
do respect some doctors, but their skills are always limited, narrowly
focused in one small area, ... & usually, they don't know any other good
docs to refer to.]

---------------

J:  Yet strangely others on the BC newsgroup have had no complaints
about their doctors in Texas and have told her so, yet she continues her
rants.

[Su_Texas writes:  Other people in Texas & Louisiana, do speak of
problems with getting good cancer care here, but you refuse to hear or
acknowledge that, to respect or dignify it or them.  Your agenda is only
to push traditional medicine no matter what, & to ridicule & downgrade
anyone who doesn't fully agree with this.]

This is not the newsgroup for that.

[Su_Texas writes:  No, this is J's newsgroup, J's fantasy world.  J's
version of cancer care.  J's social gang.]

----------------

J:  "Her" newsgroup is alt.support.cancer.breast where she can "rant"
all she wants.

I do not believe that such a person is a good influence on this
newsgroup.

I have tried to ignore her posts here (to keep the peace), while trying
to assist her on the BC newsgroup, yet I and others have gotten nowhere.

[Su_Texas writes:  I didn't realize it before this evening, ... that is,
the real reason why you'll act helpful, then ugly, they helpful again,
then ugly, ... why you ying-yang back & forth.  

It's a strategy & game.  You're looking for suckers, for the obedient,
.. for those eager followers & enforcers, who'll be so grateful to you
for any & all information & instruction, ... that they won't think or
care much about anything else, & will blindly follow & obey you, ...
partly out of gratitude, but mostly out of desperation & fear, & the
need to be led, to be told what to do.  

You want attention & approval, power & control, ... & the right to
openly judge, criticize, condemn & harm others (esp. those with cancer),
& get away with it, ... & to get to say who can come here & post, & who
can't, & why.  

That makes you an ugly person inside, J, the kind who feeds off the
emotions & needs of the desperate & ill, & uses them, just like the
other spammers try to do.]

--------------

J;  She still wants it both ways - "treatment" for cancer for which
there's no side effects..apparently.

[Su_Texas writes:  That's a lie, J, & you know it.]

--------------

J:  Someday if her cancer continues to grow (end stage), she may need us
here.

[Su_Texas writes:  You appear to enjoy watching people who're suffering
& dying, ... esp. those who don't agree with & worship you as being
all-good & knowing, & as being right.  

And you enjoy having some power & control over it, by giving or
withholding information, ... & by summoning your group to dump their
hate & harm, & to support you.  And you brag.]

------------

J:  But for now, what she seeks is somewhere else out there. (yahoo
groups or other newsgroups).

That's my opinion and position and understanding on/of Sue.

J

[Su_Texas writes:  I feel betrayed, J.  I once thought you were
genuinely kind & helpful.  I once thought you were somebody special.  I
was wrong.

Bully on.]

Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

Those are discussed on newsgroup called misc.health.alternative The
doctors over there can (and do) explain why snake oil treatments don't
work.

A reader can read both sides of the claims over on that newsgroup. There
is no reason for loons/quacks to post here, they can post their "cures"
on that newsgroup (but they target this newsgroup more than any other).

Once one/any is proven to work against cancer and accepted by
conventional medicine, then they will be discussed here.

And you have no Charter on the breast cancer newsgroup, so what you do
(or discuss) over there is your business.

===========

Hi J,

misc.health.alternative did NOT prove to be a good place to discuss
alternative or add-on-type treatments, ... which is why I returned to
the alt.support.cancer groups to discuss these.  

misc.health.alternative is like an ongoing religious-type
pro-choice/pro-life dog-fight to the death, ... due mostly to the
Organized Medicine-type fanatics, trying to "shout" everyone else down &
out, so we can't discuss anything.

If alt.support.cancer is only for discussion of Organized Medicine's
approach to cancer (which has now proved VERY lacking & harmful for me),
.. then maybe that should be in the name of the group:

alt.support.cancer.organized-medicine or govt-medicine or
allopathic-medicine

The name alt.support.cancer is misleading.

Susan, Su_Texas  my opinions

"Once one/any is proven to work against cancer and accepted by
conventional medicine, then they will be discussed here."

[Su_Texas writes:  The US govt system, & the govt's approval of medical
drugs & treatments, seems to now be about as low-down, sleazy & greedy,
dirty & corrupt as it can get.  It's a monopoly & racketeering.  It
can't be trusted.]