 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / June 2004Lung Cancer Type? Stage?
(Ontario = no medical fees; over 65 = just a small prescription fee.) Lengthily intro. My wife 65 (smoked 40/day @ 45 years) had a medical 2004-Apr-01 and was sent to have X-rays done. Next morning the Doctor's Office called and asked her to come in. The Dr. told her that he saw a 2cm (3/4") shadow on her lung he had not seen on an X-ray 18 months before. That was not his concern, he dad noticed a light spot next to the upper right lobe and suspected a case of Pneumothorax and wanted her to go back for additional X-rays. that afternoon the suspicion of pneumothorax had evaporated but he made an appointment for her with a lung specialist for the 13th. After looking at the X-rays he told her it is cancer and ordered a CT scan (done today, the 16th, covered head, chest, stomach), a breathing test (scheduled for the 23rd), a visit to the anesthetist on the 29th and booked for a bronchoscopy for May 3. He told her that she should be very pleased that her GP was alert enough to send her to the specialist as he was very confident this being an early stage, as she had no symptoms of any kind. He also told her that, until the bronchoscopy is made, he would not be able to say if it is localized or if it had affected the lymph nodes, but that he expects to remove the upper right lobe. He also said that should the cancer have spread to the lymph nodes, he will not remove any tissue at all. I was checking web pages yesterday and found that they were talking about insertion of a tube through the nose or throat under local anesthetic and that the patient usually may be taken home after two hours. That part jived with the 6 page hospital instruction sheet that was marked Outpatient except, we were told by the Dr.'s office, making the dates while we were standing there that my wife will be in the ICU for the first two days and then three/four days on a 4 person ward or a 2 person private room. This only really sunk in last night and calling the office after the CT scan today, they confirmed that it was the real stay and that the info sheet says Outpatient as she will only go to the hospital the morning of the surgery. I did find this newsgroup last night, downloaded the 4900++ posts, filtered out he 147 that contained 'lung' in the Subject: line and read them. My question at this time is if anyone here went through a similar situation and did not find out either about the type of cancer or the stage it is in until after the operation. -- Orping > (Ontario = no medical fees; over 65 = just a small prescription fee.) > Lengthily intro. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > -- > Orping Hello Orping and welcome to alt.support.cancer, "Black Sheep" had a needle biopsy first but the staging (lymph node biopsy result) was only after the surgery http://tinyurl.com/27u4u I will leave you to read through Black Sheep's experience. We went through a lot of "what ifs" and somewhere in there is two good websites describing lung surgeries. She's around the same age as your wife and is now happily back (unless she's still reading here) to the stop smoking newsgroup. Thank you for trying to find all the lung-related posts and reading them. I'm guessing that they've booked her rooms in anticipation of surgery (due to the lack of beds in Ontario) but if she doesn't have surgery there's no hospital stay. Perhaps when they call or she goes back for the CT scan results, you could have a list of questions ready? Black Sheep was missing from the newsgroup for two weeks, but I don't recall exactly how long her hospital stay was. (the rest was home healing and recovery). I can only conjecture that the lung specialist saw something that said "time is of the essence" in your wife's case or due to "booking issues", does not want to wait for a needle biopsy of whatever he saw. Keep in touch, J [ ... ] >> He also told her that, until the bronchoscopy is made, he would not be >> able to say if it is localized or if it had affected the lymph nodes, >> but that he expects to remove the upper right lobe. He also said that >> should the cancer have spread to the lymph nodes, he will not remove >> any tissue at all. This was explained AFTER he showed her the place between the ribs where the incision will be made. I too thought it a good idea to cut it out fast before it spreads too much. >> This only really sunk in last night and calling the office after the >> CT scan today, they confirmed that it was the real stay and that the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >through a lot of "what ifs" and somewhere in there is two good websites >describing lung surgeries. I had read most of the individual articles, as the newsgroup post go back to last summer. I did skip quite a bit, particularly when stage and item notations were cited, like in some of "Black Sheep's" posts as we have not received any information. I do not expect to get details until the brochoscopy/lobectomy(?) on May 03. >I'm guessing that they've booked her rooms in anticipation of surgery (due >to the lack of beds in Ontario) but if she doesn't have surgery there's no >hospital stay. I don't think so. On the 13th, the surgeon called the hospital for the next available operating time and was given the 7th of May. An man scheduled for the 3rd but had complained about heart palpitations in the Dr.'s office an because they could not get him and EKG in time, she was given his slot. Her GP had marked the lung referral Urgent on Apr 02 and she got to see him on Apr 13. Him booking her for a May 07 operation does not strike me as a lack of beds induce problem. Matter in fact, I thought is was very swift. >Perhaps when they call or she goes back for the CT scan >results, you could have a list of questions ready? That is an excellent idea and I was looking for the list referred to be Black Sheep in the URL cited by you. I Googled for steph(steph@vancouver.island) but in all the instances returned I could not find the list. Could anyone point me in the direction of that list of questions. Also, if anyone here had a lobectomy, how long does it take afterwards, to get up and make a cup of tea (if left alone). >I can only conjecture that the lung specialist saw something that said >"time is of the essence" in your wife's case or due to "booking issues", >does not want to wait for a needle biopsy of whatever he saw. > >Keep in touch, >J Thank you for your reply, J. I have seen from reading past posts that you must be a very compassionate person. -- Orping > I Googled for steph(steph@vancouver.island) but in all the instances > returned I could not find the list. Hello Orping, I usually post Steph's Questions to Ask > Could anyone point me in the direction of that list of questions. I usually help posters to make up a list. There are "Questions to Ask" in the FAQ, which I just posted about, but they are very general. > Also, if anyone here had a lobectomy, how long does it take > afterwards, to get up and make a cup of tea (if left alone). I would guess that she'll not released until she's at least able to do that and go to the bathroom on her own, if not more. Some may depend on what medications (if any) she's on (if some make a person dizzy), so my suspicion is that after the surgery and while in hospital, this is a question to ask (if not the doctor, one of the nurses who are caring for her). If you can find someone reliable/trust-worthy person, who will be a "standby person" who can check in with her at designated times (by phone or in person and especially nearby) during the day (if you have to be out of the home especially during the first week), I would highly recommend it and it would help you with the "worry factor". You /she may not need the person, but it's good to have such a person as a potential resource. J > My wife 65 (smoked 40/day @ 45 years) had a medical 2004-Apr-01 and > was sent to have X-rays done. [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > -- > Orping My mom couldn't have an operation as she was 3b, that diagnosis took some different tests because at first they said 3a or 3b. If you want the stage meanings let me know. I had to do a presentation at a class so I have it handy. Take care of yourself Lily Mae >> My question at this time is if anyone here went through a similar >> situation and did not find out either about the type of cancer or the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >handy. Take care of yourself >Lily Mae Thank you Lily Mae. I have seen some explanation on web pages but until such time that we are being told what the result actually shows, it will only add to anxiety. I may come back later for it. (If you want to send it now, in or off list, I shall save it without perusing.) Thanks again for the offer. Orping > >> My question at this time is if anyone here went through a similar > >> situation and did not find out either about the type of cancer or the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Thanks again for the offer. > Orping I understand, when you need the info it will be handy........It's from the Mayo Clinic: It came out in big type? Lily Mae CATEGORIZING LUNG CANCER Lung cancer is categorized is various ways: STAGE The American Joint Committee on Cancer (AJCC) has designated staging by TNM classification: Primary tumor (T), Regional Lymph Nodes (N), Distant Metastasis (M). Tumor TX: Primary tumor cannot be assessed, or tumor proven by the presence of malignant cells in sputum or bronchial washings but not visualized by imaging or bronchoscope or (T0: No evidence of primary tumor) T1: A tumor that is 3 cm or less in greatest dimension, surrounded by lung or visceral pleura, and without bronchoscopic evidence of invasion more proximal than the lobar bronchus (i.e., not in the main bronchus) T2: A tumor with any of the following features of size or extent: More than 3 cm in greatest dimension Involves the main bronchus, 2 cm or more distal to the carina Invades the visceral pleura associated with atelectasis or obstructive pneumonitis that extends to the hilar region but does not involve the entire lung T3: A tumor of any size that directly invades any of the following: chest wall (including superior sulcus tumors), diaphragm, mediastinal pleura, parietal pericardium; or tumor in the main bronchus less than 2 cm distal to the carina but without involvement of the carina; or associated atelectasis or obstructive pneumonitis of the entire lung T4: A tumor of any size that invades any of the following: mediastinum, heart, great vessels, trachea, esophagus, vertebral body, carina; or separate tumor nodules in the same lobe; or tumor with a malignant pleural effusion. REGIONAL LYMPH NODES (N) NX: Regional lymph nodes cannot be assessed N0: No regional lymph node metastasis N1: Metastasis to ipsilateral peribronchial and/or ipsilateral hilar lymph nodes, and intrapulmonary nodes including involvement by direct extension of the primary tumor N2: Metastasis to ipsilateral mediastinal and/or subcarinal lymph node(s) N3: Metastasis to contralateral mediastinal, contralateral hilar, ipsilateral or contralateral scalene, or supraclavicular lymph node(s) DISTANT METASTASIS (M) MX: Distant metastasis cannot be assessed M0: No distant metastasis M1: Distant metastasis present Note: M1 includes separate tumor nodule(s) in a different lobe (ipsilateral or contralateral). PATHOLOGY Lung cancer is further categorized by cellular differentiation. Normal tissue is organized, whereas cancerous tissues is more haphazard. We have the following categories, in order of severity: Well-differentiated, Moderately differentiated, and Poorly differentiated Lung cancer can also be categorized by where it originates, such as Non-Small Cell Carcinoma, adenocarinoma, squamous cell, and Small-Cell Carcinoma Types of lung cancer Lung cancer is commonly divided into two groups: small cell and non-small cell. Each grows and spreads in different ways and is treated differently. Small cell lung cancer, for example, spreads aggressively and responds best to chemotherapy and radiation. It occurs almost exclusively in smokers and accounts for about 20 percent of lung cancers in the United States. Non-small cell lung cancer, which is more common, accounts for almost 75 percent of lung cancers. If caught early when it's confined to a small area, it often can be removed surgically. There are three major categories of non-small cell lung cancer: a.. Squamous cell carcinoma. This cancer forms in cells lining your airways. It's the most common type of lung cancer in men. b.. Adenocarcinoma. This type of cancer usually begins in the mucous-producing cells of the lung. It's the most common type of lung cancer in women and in people who have never smoked. c.. Large cell carcinoma. This type of cancer originates in the peripheral part of the lungs. Staging Staging is a system of classifying information about cancer, including where and to what extent the cancer has spread. In many cases, Roman numerals are used to describe stages, with 0 being the least advanced and IV the most advanced. Your doctor uses this information to determine what treatment you need and to evaluate how your cancer might progress. Non-small cell lung cancer Non-small cell lung cancer is staged according to the size of the tumor, the level of lymph node involvement and the extent to which the cancer has spread. Stages of non-small cell lung cancer include: a.. Stage 0. At this stage, cancer is limited to the lining of the air passages and hasn't invaded lung tissue. Stage 0 cancers almost always are found during bronchoscopy, which is likely to have been performed to assess an abnormality on a chest X-ray. If found and treated promptly, cancers at this stage usually can be eliminated. b.. Stage I. Cancer at this stage has spread to layers of lung tissue but not to the lymph nodes. c.. Stage II. This stage cancer has invaded neighboring lymph nodes or spread to the chest wall. d.. Stage IIIA. At this stage, cancer has spread from the lung to lymph nodes beyond the lung area. e.. Stage IIIB. The cancer has spread locally to areas such as the heart, blood vessels, trachea and esophagus - all within the chest. f.. Stage IV. The cancer has spread to other parts of the body, such as the liver, bones or brain. g.. Small cell lung cancer Small cell lung cancer is staged differently from non-small cell types. Rather than using numbers, it's classified as either limited or extensive: a.. Limited. Cancer is confined to one lung and to its neighboring lymph nodes. b.. Extensive. Cancer has spread beyond one lung and nearby lymph nodes, and may have invaded both lungs, more remote lymph nodes or other organs. >I understand, when you need the info it will be handy........It's from the >Mayo Clinic: [quoted text clipped - 127 lines] > b.. Extensive. Cancer has spread beyond one lung and nearby lymph nodes, >and may have invaded both lungs, more remote lymph nodes or other organs. Thank you Lily Mae. That is more concise than what I had seen on the John Hopkins site. I will post again once we get new information of any kind. -- Regards, Orping Hi Orping, orping@sympatico.ca wrote in news:6t418099ioqk90n3dvoad9d77lb1fc10ck@ 4ax.com: > (Ontario = no medical fees; over 65 = just a small prescription fee.) > Lengthily intro. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > After looking at the X-rays he told her it is cancer He cannot know that from cxr. He can make an educated guess and maybe, perhaps even probably, be correct. But the question is still open. >and ordered a CT > scan (done today, the 16th, covered head, chest, stomach), a breathing [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > should the cancer have spread to the lymph nodes, he will not remove > any tissue at all. Ther's some confusion here, I think. A bronchoscopy will not reveal anything about the lymph nodes. For that matter, if it's like mine was, it maynot reveal anything of use. If a bronchoscopy tells you you do have cancer, you can probably believe it. If it says you don't, you can't have any confidence in the result. > I was checking web pages yesterday and found that they were talking > about insertion of a tube through the nose or throat under local [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > info sheet says Outpatient as she will only go to the hospital the > morning of the surgery. More confusion. A bronchoscopy is not surgery and is normally outpatient unless some complication arises. This description of 2 days in ICU and 3-4 four more on a ward is a lot even for a thoracoscopy, it sounds more like a thoracotomy, in which they would slice between two ribs, spread them a bit and remove parts of lung. Smallish parts can also be > I did find this newsgroup last night, downloaded the 4900++ posts, > filtered out he 147 that contained 'lung' in the Subject: line and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > situation and did not find out either about the type of cancer or the > stage it is in until after the operation. In 1999 I had shadows on a cxr, a large, bright mass on a CT in my left upper lobe. Bronchoscopy revealed nothing. Went to surgery anyway, had a lobectomy and non-small-cell adenocarcinoma was diagnosed. It is typical, in a thoracotomy, to first probe the mediastinum (sac in the central chest which holds the heart, throat and windpipe) to remove and biopsy some lymph nodes. If they are clean, then the rest of the operation proceeds. Having said all this, I must offer my opinion that the surgery is better than the bronchoscopy, because you get results you can believe. Good luck to your wife and you. Frank >Hi Orping, > >orping@sympatico.ca wrote in news:6t418099ioqk90n3dvoad9d77lb1fc10ck@ >4ax.com: [ ... ] >> This only really sunk in last night and calling the office after the >> CT scan today, they confirmed that it was the real stay and that the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >like a thoracotomy, in which they would slice between two ribs, spread >them a bit and remove parts of lung. Smallish parts can also be Frank, you are quite right about the confusion. I was not in the examination room when the surgeon showed my wife between which two ribs the incision would be made. When they both came back to the desk, he asked her if is still hurt where he pressed her ribs and told her that this was the type of pain she should expect after surgery. The confusion bit starts when reading the instructions for the pre-surgery visit to the anesthetist; bronchoscopy. Reading up that night about bronchoscopy I would guess that this one, with tube, rather than scope, would be done under local anesthetic whereas the cutting between the ribs would be under full anesthetic. >In 1999 I had shadows on a cxr, a large, bright mass on a CT in my left >upper lobe. Bronchoscopy revealed nothing. Went to surgery anyway, had a [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > >Frank In spite of your unfortunate situation I am pleased to hear that your surgery had been in 1999, 5 years ago. Thanks for your kind thoughts, -- Orping >>Hi Orping, >> [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > >Thanks for your kind thoughts, Sorry I did not get back yesterday. My wife had the lobectomy yesterday (3 hour operation). The good news is that the surgeon said the confirmed cancerous tissue was about 15 mm rather than the 2 cm, as assumed from the spot on the X-ray. When I asked if he could tell about type and stages he informed that biopsies have been taken from a few lymph nodes and the pathologist's report should be ready in two weeks when we will make the post operative visit. He did say he thought the adrenals where somewhat larger than normal and that he wants my wife to have an abdomen CT Scan in about six months time. I think that the enlarged adrenals come form the combination of 10 - 15 cups of tea (caffeine) a day and the anti depressant she's been taken for a few years. (Reading up on adrenals it sounded like a textbook case.) Her operation was from 1100 to 1400. I was in the ICU at 1530 when she first gained consciousness. In spite of the epidural and extra injection of morphine she had terrible pains in her shoulder (not at the incision) which let up a little around 1700 when I brought her sister for a brief visit. She was scheduled to be for two days in the ICU, but this afternoon they after she had been sitting in a chair already and started the breathing exercises with the therapist they moved her to her regular room. Unless something else comes up I shall let you know what transpires from the review at the surgeon's office two weeks hence. Thank you all for your encouragement and guidance. -- Orping > Sorry I did not get back yesterday. > My wife had the lobectomy yesterday (3 hour operation). [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > -- > Orping Best wishes for a full recovery, Did you mean 1.5 mm? J >> Sorry I did not get back yesterday. >> My wife had the lobectomy yesterday (3 hour operation). >> The good news is that the surgeon said the confirmed cancerous tissue >> was about 15 mm rather than the 2 cm, as assumed from the spot on the >> X-ray. [ ... ] >> Unless something else comes up I shall let you know what transpires >> from the review at the surgeon's office two weeks hence. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Did you mean 1.5 mm? >J No, the X-ray diagnosis was 2 cm ( 20 mm ), the actual cancerous tissue removed was 1.5 cm ( 15 mm ). -- Orping >>> Sorry I did not get back yesterday. >>> My wife had the lobectomy yesterday (3 hour operation). [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >>> >>> Thank you all for your encouragement and guidance. Actually, the post surgery consultation was today. It was adenocarcinoma, Stage 1, with negative results from the biopsy samples of the lymph nodes taken. The surgeon told my wife that the 5 year survival rate is about 60% and that he was confident that she would be doing well. He told her that re rarely sees patients who's scar heals that well. He asked her to come for a follow up visit, bringing an X-ray, in about 3 months. Now, 3 weeks after the operation she still has problems keeping down any food more solid than Jello and bananas, feeling queasy all the time. Upon advice of her GP she has been using Ensure Plus for the last week. I hope this is temporary and mostly the effect of the nicotine and clonazepam withdrawals (since 2 days before the operation), giving her drastic mood swings and chills and fevers as during her menopause. My wife did not want for anyone but her 'sister' to know about this until now. Thanks for listening and the helpful advice given. Orping > Actually, the post surgery consultation was today. > It was adenocarcinoma, Stage 1, with negative results from the biopsy [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Orping I'm baffled Orping, a positive surgery and cancer report, yet she's not doing well. what did the surgeon think about this situation? What does the GP think the problem is ? What part of her lung was removed? Anywhere near the esophagus? Could the surgery somehow have caused GERD? Is your wife up and moving about? I thought stopping smoking tends to increase appetite. I can see how it (stopping smoking) might cause mood swings though. Earlier you mentioned drinking a lot of coffee - some antidepressants cause grogginess which some counter by drinking coffee. Is she still drinking coffee? Perhaps too much or has gastro problems. Some antidepressants increase appetite, it's also mentioned for Clonazepam but that doesn't explain the queasy. there can (apparently) also be severe problems after abrupt withdrawal http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/clonaz_ad.htm which makes me wonder if some of the pills she was on were masking other problems ? or helping her appetite.. Has she started a new medication? Here's a for instance, since you mentioned her adrenals <http://patients.uptodate.com/topic.asp?usd=446577048&r=/topic.asp&file=endo_hor/ 3060&server=patients.uptodate.com&app=ptnt> If that doesn't work, I got it from Medline http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/adrenalglanddisorders.html "Adrenal Gland Disorders " section Perhaps her adrenals and blood sugars should be checked. I can't think of anything else that causes chills and fevers, unless she's picked up a virus or infection? Maybe Black Sheep would have some input. She reads and posts the stop smoking newsgroup. Meantime, keep plugging in possible clues here and/or see her doctor and discuss some of these issues. J-wishing I had more ideas as to what's going on. >> Now, 3 weeks after the operation she still has problems keeping down >> any food more solid than Jello and bananas, feeling queasy all the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >well. >what did the surgeon think about this situation? Told her to get liquid Maalox and have a swig of it before eating anything. She has been doing that and has been eating some solid food for the last two days. >What does the GP think the problem is ? He took a blood sample, an ECG and ordered X-rays (which we brought along to the surgeon on Tuesday's visit). Didn't make sense to him, as she was taking some Gravol. He gave her some samples of Enshure Plus and I then bought a case of it. >What part of her lung was removed? Anywhere near the esophagus? Could the >surgery somehow have caused GERD? It was the upper portion of the right lung. There could be some connection to GERD as she was eating several Tums at times, before the surgery. I mentioned this to her GP but it was not elaborated upon. >Is your wife up and moving about? Not any more than before the surgery. The majority of her time is spent in bed, watching TV (been for several years now). >I thought stopping smoking tends to increase appetite. >I can see how it (stopping smoking) might cause mood swings though. >Earlier you mentioned drinking a lot of coffee - some antidepressants cause it was tea, actually, but ... >grogginess which some counter by drinking coffee. Is she still drinking >coffee? Perhaps too much or has gastro problems. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >there can (apparently) also be severe problems after abrupt withdrawal >http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/clonaz_ad.htm I had read up on that a month ago and informed the GP and the surgeon about her hardly sleeping at night and being tired all day (pre cancer). The GP was not aware the was taking anti depressants prescribed by a psychiatrist. I mentioned it to the surgeon because of his remarks about the abnormal large adrenals. >which makes me wonder if some of the pills she was on were masking other >problems ? or helping her appetite.. > >Has she started a new medication? Nope. >Here's a for instance, since you mentioned her adrenals ><http://patients.uptodate.com/topic.asp?usd=446577048&r=/topic.asp&file=endo_hor/ 3060&server=patients.uptodate.com&app=ptnt> I cannot see anything there that would lead to enlarged adrenals. I feel it was the interaction of the then 15 cups of tea a day and clonazepam that put her system into a constant state of alertness. >If that doesn't work, I got it from Medline >http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/adrenalglanddisorders.html "Adrenal Gland >Disorders " section >Perhaps her adrenals and blood sugars should be checked. >I can't think of anything else that causes chills and fevers, unless she's >picked up a virus or infection? This could be a poor description. She now says it is just like the hot flashes of menopause from 10 years ago. This morning, she was telling me that she was 'freezing' so I snuggled up, but her body and limbs temperature felt normal to me. About 10 minutes later she was telling me to move away as she was now getting one of her hot flashes. I checked and again, her temperature felt normal to me. This leads me to believe that either her mind is playing tricks or some of the medication and or hormones created at this time allows for false readings from her sensors. >Maybe Black Sheep would have some input. She reads and posts the stop smoking >newsgroup. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >J-wishing I had more ideas as to what's going on. I was in the same boat that's why I insisted yesterday that she make an appointment with the psychiatrist who gave her the prescriptions for clonazepam, trazodone and trimipramie and whom she had been seeing for the last 14 years (as I just found out). I took her there today (50 km, other side of town - that is why she did not drive alone) and she felt good enough to ask to stop on the way home to stop and have some french fries! -- Orping > I hope this is temporary and mostly the effect of the nicotine and > clonazepam withdrawals (since 2 days before the operation), giving her > drastic mood swings and chills and fevers as during her menopause. I quit smoking a year ago after 45 years. I still suck a Commit lozenge from time to time. The Commit sure helps. Bob > > I hope this is temporary and mostly the effect of the nicotine and > > clonazepam withdrawals (since 2 days before the operation), giving her [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Bob I called several places here (Canada) and they "don't carry it" including Walmart. Perhaps where Orping lives they do or something equivalent. J > I called several places here (Canada) and they "don't carry it" including > Walmart. > Perhaps where Orping lives they do or something equivalent. > J Perhaps we could turn the tables and Canadians could order them from the US. Are nicoitnt patches sold in Canada? If so the lozenges should be available. The nice thing about them is you can suck one every day or so (as needed) and not have the nicotene constantly in your system that the patch produces. Bob >> > I hope this is temporary and mostly the effect of the nicotine and >> > clonazepam withdrawals (since 2 days before the operation), giving her [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Perhaps where Orping lives they do or something equivalent. >J Navel of the World = Toronto ;->) -- Orping > >> > I hope this is temporary and mostly the effect of the nicotine and > >> > clonazepam withdrawals (since 2 days before the operation), giving her [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Navel of the World = Toronto ;->) Well, perhaps Torontonians think so, but Google gives me other places with that phrase.(I'm sorry to tell you) And hey, more power to you, if you like the "big city". But do let us know if you find that "Commit". Perhaps there's lurkers who'd be interested in knowing where/who (if any) sells it in Canada or perhaps the equivalent (but different name) is available. Thanks, J >> >I called several places here (Canada) and they "don't carry it" including >> >Walmart. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Well, perhaps Torontonians think so, but Google gives me other places with that >phrase.(I'm sorry to tell you) Aw shucks, you just sound like a former Torontonian who moved Out West and now hates Torontonians. >And hey, more power to you, if you like the "big city". I do like to live on the edge of the Big City with one foot in the country but all the conveniences of a Metropolis, if wanted. (It did help when I decided to just work out of the house and visit my wife 3 - 4 times a day in the hospital after a 12 minute derive.) >But do let us know if you find that "Commit". Perhaps there's lurkers who'd be >interested in knowing where/who (if any) sells it in Canada or perhaps the >equivalent (but different name) is available. >Thanks, >J Don't know, but I will give them a call on Monday and see what info I can get. http://www.gsk.ca/en/about_gsk/ Orping > >> Navel of the World = Toronto ;->) > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Aw shucks, you just sound like a former Torontonian who > moved Out West and now hates Torontonians. No offence intended. > I do like to live on the edge of the Big City with one foot in the > country but all the conveniences of a Metropolis, if wanted. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Orping Thanks Orping, there's two advantages to living in /near Toronto (no long distance - calls or travel) J >> >> Navel of the World = Toronto ;->) >No offence intended. None taken, just joshing; see the smiley. >> Don't know, but I will give them a call on Monday and see what info I can get. >> http://www.gsk.ca/en/about_gsk/ [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >calls or travel) >J They are all on a course in NB this week. "Please leave a message and we will get back to you as soon as possible." -- Orping > <snipped - no offence> > >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > "Please leave a message and we will get back > to you as soon as possible." A course on sales and customer service ? ;-) Reminds me of when I heard that the Fed Gov't was going to teach their staff about ethics... Thanks for changing the subject line - when I saw that, I chuckled remembering me trying to reply (and do same) on Ron's posts. Each post was a "dog's breakfast" of subjects/loved one/health woes and I kept trying to keep them organized by subject line. By the time, he updated, one subject/person was solved and another one had started...It was enough to make a person's head spin... J >>> Don't know, but I will give them a call on Monday and see what info I can get. >>> http://www.gsk.ca/en/about_gsk/ [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >"Please leave a message and we will get back >to you as soon as possible." Just got called back that Commit Lozenges are not available in Canada. She had no further information as she "was just asked to call me back and inform me.". Orping > Just got called back that Commit Lozenges are not available in Canada. Are nicotine patches available in Canada? I started on the patch and then went to a Commit when needed. Bob In Carmel, CA >> Just got called back that Commit Lozenges are not available in Canada. > >Are nicotine patches available in Canada? I started on the patch and >then went to a Commit when needed. >Bob >In Carmel, CA Yes, they are. Did you see my post from May 27 Subject: Re: Lung Cancer Type? Stage? --> smoking Orping > >>> Don't know, but I will give them a call on Monday and see what info I can get. > >>> http://www.gsk.ca/en/about_gsk/ [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > and inform me.". > Orping Out of luck, I guess, unless as I said earlier, there's another company who makes some which are in Canada... I was at the drug store yesterday but completely forgot to ask (or look). Looks like it may be tied up in bureaucracy over "over the counter" or not http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hpfb-dgpsa/tpd-dpt/sch_1370_e.html J >> I hope this is temporary and mostly the effect of the nicotine and >> clonazepam withdrawals (since 2 days before the operation), giving her [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Bob If that works for you, great. When I stopped lighting up on 1987-Jul-01 I too believed that my 3 packs a day for 22 years had created a physical dependency and, as I did it cold turkey, was waiting for that crush to set in. Still waiting. Three weeks before I stopped lighting up, a customer who had a subsidiary plant in Virginia and smoked 4 packs of Lucky Strike a day told me that it had been 6 weeks that he had decided not to give up smoking, so I offered him one of mine. He said no. I decided not to give up smoking, I just want to see how long I can be without lighting up. This statement bothered me, as he was a highly intelligent 75 year old man. I knew that one day I would give it up, and 2 years before, when I got a new car, I declared it a smoke free zone. Became a little awkward as a drive to Chicago now took two hours longer, what with having folding chairs in the trunk to stop any time needed. About 7 months before that day I had decided not to smoke in the bedroom any longer. That meant running to the shower coughing as I no longer had that comforting menthol cigarette to open up the bronchial tubes. I also had decided if I do give up, I will go through a behaviour modification as I would switch from my 10 - 12 cups of coffee a day to the despised tea, and I would answer the phone standing up at the desk instead of sitting down, and a few more which I do not remember. Any way, after 3 weeks of being bothered by the statement of my customer I decided that the main reason for the failure to stop smoking is this absolute finality, very nearly quartile to death and thus almost impossible to handle mentally. I also decided that I must not go through behaviour modifications as, with a weak will, I may just add the smoking should I be confronted with one of the previous situations. Now, a few days before the intended deadline I would open a pack of cigarettes and after smoking 3 -4 of them leave them, with matches, on the desk at work, on the desk at home, in my car, in my wife's car, in the rec room, etc.. Again, this was so that I could not give myself a mental excuse why I didn't smoke that moment and took it up again when more convenient. I also did not inform anyone (SWMBO and I were not on the best of speaking terms at that time anyway) so that I could not tell myself that I only lasted the time I did because of the embarrassment of having failed earlier. (I called it a pre-emptive strike out-screwing my own mind.) Now, on the 1st of July I drove to our club early, knowing that no one would be there for some time. Sitting in the car, I was debating and arguing "ah, so what, so you only lasted 15 minutes of not lighting up" after all, I had that started pack and matches laying there, 6" from my hand. It was quite bad until the first hour passed (remember, this was not a pause of an hour but hopefully for ever). By that time I came up with inhaling deeply. Inhale, deep, deep, deep, deep, until the lungs seem to burst. When then trying to catch breath and everything hurts, that craving is gone, at least until breathing normal again. I found this to be so effective, that by mid afternoon the intervals started to get longer. After a week my wife asked if I gave up smoking as she didn't have to buy an other carton. A few days later, my boss asked after a sales meeting if I was ill, as I did not contribute to make the air blue in the conference room. I, in the meantime, was expecting the crash to hit me hard, as I had to contend with that physical nicotine dependency and I waited for it to happen any time. I'm still waiting, but it is only 17 years a month from now. To do something for her health, my wife switched from on large pack of Rothmans' to No.1 Ultra Light and within 2 months time she had gotten up to 2 packs a day. She did say that _I_ was stupid saying that I had not given up smoking, I had just stopped lighting up. So, I did not give up smoking I JUST DID NOT LIGHT UP in 17 years. Pass it on to anyone who wants to know, and particularly to those who do not. -- Orping > <snipped> > > To do something for her health, my wife switched from on large pack of > Rothmans' to No.1 Ultra Light That seems to work for some. They quit because "it's like smoking nothing". > and within 2 months time she had gotten up to 2 packs a day. That's the "flip" - I can't get enough so I'll smoke more - I think I read that's actually more harmful. My friend made a rule - no smoking in the house - so her hubby smokes less in winter (too cold) - he does make a lot of car trips though. > <snipped>So, I did not give up smoking I JUST DID NOT LIGHT UP in 17 years. > > Pass it on to anyone who wants to know, and particularly to those who > do not. > -- > Orping Thanks Orping, I saved that one to pass along. J > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Orping Hello Orping, I had a few more thoughts. If you think there might be infection, the first place I'd have checked is the urinary system. The next, of course, would be her lungs, I guess. If you mean "hot flashes" by the "chills and fevers", I don't know much about that. Does that mean her "estrogens" are now "kicking in"? There are ways to rebalance the hormones. It may be that because she was a smoker, she may not be able to take a pill, but there's creams and gels and patches and perhaps even sprays (of the appropriate hormones for her). I do recognize that smoking seems to affect hormones so the inverse (stop smoking) also might. Perhaps your wife would benefit from attending a local stop-smokinggroup of mostly women where they can share tips on what helped, support and what might be needed to resettle the hormones, then discuss with the appropriate professional. It may be that hormonal adjustment-prescriptions are required for a while AND anti-depressant. I don't know that much about all this, so it's FWIW (for what it's worth). PS It's my understanding that Clonazepam is not an anti-depressant but an anti-anxiety medicine, so perhaps if she needs an antidepressant she should talk to her doctor about that. Since she'll talk to her sister, perhaps her sister would be an invaluable resource to go with her on some of these issues, at least to get the "ball rolling" until your wife is adjusting to the changes? A friend of mine had a terrible time with hot flashes during perimenopause (for years). It seems to be ameliorating. She has made some food adjustments. It's hard to know if it's the progression to menopause or the adjustments she's made (which include an exercise program). Your wife may not be able to do "high impact" exercise but she could start slowly in a seniors venue, where some are seated to start and each progresses to more or more difficult as able. Whatever she does, I do hope she doesn't give up and cloister herself within the home. Please keep in touch and let us know how you and she are doing. Best, J >> I hope this is temporary and mostly the effect of the nicotine and >> clonazepam withdrawals (since 2 days before the operation), giving her [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >If you think there might be infection, the first place I'd have checked is >the urinary system. Waterworks seem to be very normal. >The next, of course, would be her lungs, I guess. That is why the GP had ordered the new X-rays. >If you mean "hot flashes" by the "chills and fevers", I don't know much about >that. >Does that mean her "estrogens" are now "kicking in"? There are ways to >rebalance the hormones. Could be due to the guilt and depression wrecking havoc with her mind. Her menopause was finished pretty much 10 years ago. >It may be that because she was a smoker, she may not be able to take a pill, >but there's creams and gels and patches and perhaps even sprays (of the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >for a while AND anti-depressant. I don't know that much about all this, so >it's FWIW (for what it's worth). She started some exercise classes this spring but would not join a support group. I will keep that in mind. I will try to find something locally and then have her 'sister' suggest it. >PS It's my understanding that Clonazepam is not an anti-depressant but an >anti-anxiety medicine, so perhaps if she needs an antidepressant she should >talk to her doctor about that. She has been taking the three as per my other reply to you. >Since she'll talk to her sister, perhaps her sister would be an invaluable >resource to go with her on some of these issues, at least to get the "ball [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Best, >J Thanks for the effort and advice. -- Orping > >> I hope this is temporary and mostly the effect of the nicotine and > >> clonazepam withdrawals (since 2 days before the operation), giving her [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Waterworks seem to be very normal. There isn't always symptoms. Only a test of a sample would rule that out. > >The next, of course, would be her lungs, I guess. > > That is why the GP had ordered the new X-rays. I'm glad she's going to exercising. Some people find walking helpful, but if she's used to walking and smoking, perhaps that's to be avoided. Or perhaps she'd want you with her depending on security issues. How's she doing? Any better? J >I'm glad she's going to exercising. Some people find walking helpful, but if she's >used to walking and smoking, perhaps that's to be avoided. She never used to smoke when walking, but that usually was not more than 20 minutes around the block. >Or perhaps she'd want you with her depending on security issues. There is no problem with that in this part of Toronto, even in the dark. >How's she doing? Any better? Thanks for asking. Yes, she seems to be getting much better. Although she still says she feels "yeach", she has been increasing her intake of relatively bland solid food and has not been using the Maalox for the last two days. I feel the main reason for the improvement is the change in her mental state. She seems to have made peace with herself and is coming to terms that she will not be dying immediately. Finally letting all her friends and family know what happened seemed to have helped in the same manner. Before the recap visit to the surgeon last Wednesday she had decided to let others know about her situation, no matter what the report would say. On Friday afternoon, after coming back from her psychiatrist, she said let's tell them now and I posted to her group of school chums and others: Subject: GOOD NEWS Hello former inmates and all others. Very good news. The surgeon, during the 3 week post operative visit, said he got it all, but I should come back for a check up in 3 months time. On April first (fools day, obviously) I had a regularly scheduled visit at the doctors and I insisted, although a little early, to have my bi-annual check-up done at the same time. The GP asked if I wanted to go for an X-ray too and I said I would. Next morning, I got an early call. The doctors office wanted me to go back to the X-ray Offices and have an other one taken as they seemed to have seen a white spot next to my lung, indicating that there may be an air leak in my rib cage (Pneumothorax). He wanted to make certain that there was no mistake as that, if not taken care of immediately would lead to a collapsed lung. Taking the X-ray back to the doctor he said that the white spot is gone but an other 3/4" spot could be an indication of trouble and he gave me a referral to a lung specialist. As it befits me, the first possible appointment available was on the 13th of April ! The very first thing the lung specialist said after looking at the X-rays is that I should be very grateful to my GP as he may have possibly saved my life by recognizing the spot as lung cancer. He also suggested a lobectomy as soon as possible. (I only found out now that he did not take out that 2 cm spot in the lung, but that he cut out the upper third of my right lung.) 'Orping' agreed with him and said that the sooner it would be cut out the better the chances that it has not much more time to spread. The surgeon took out the consent forms and 'Orping' told me to sign them for the operation, upon which the surgeon called the Hospital and got a bed in ICU for the 7th of May. He then called for a CT Scan and they had an opening for that in the Hospital on the 16th. He also filled out the forms for Pre-Admission, Breath test and Anesthetist visits prior to the operation. The next day the surgeon's office called back and told me that there was an opening in the Hospital for the 3rd of May to which we agreed. The operation went fine and I was released from the hospital on the 7th of May. The results of the biopsy of the lymph nodes are negative and I do not have to get an other X-ray for three months. The pain for the first few days, in spite of the morphine, was excruciating but it ebbed off and the worst effects I have are that I don't seem to be able to keep down solid food, I feel nauseous all the time. The other problem is that I am feel freezing and then get hot flashes just the way it was during menopause. My mind is still in uproar and I cannot really talk about that. Anyway, as I said, GOOD NEWS. Love you all, > She never used to smoke when walking, but that usually was not more > than 20 minutes around the block. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > intake of relatively bland solid food and has not been using the > Maalox for the last two days. That's good :-) > I feel the main reason for the improvement is the change in her mental > state. She seems to have made peace with herself and is coming to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > My mind is still in uproar and I cannot really talk about that. Gee, maybe you're right there...Perhaps everything happened so fast that she's now (mal) digesting all the info.. Maybe it happens to others, but we don't necessarily hear back here after they get the "all clear" (ie they move on after surgery). Here's a few others...did her tummy shrink before and after surgery (nerves, not eating/well) Is she getting her sense of smell and taste back? Maybe someone who has quit, now cannot stand the smell of cigarettes in the home or car? Would it be helpful (soon) to have everything cleaned and/or painted? J >> I feel the main reason for the improvement is the change in her mental >> state. She seems to have made peace with herself and is coming to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Maybe it happens to others, but we don't necessarily hear back here after they get the >"all clear" (ie they move on after surgery). Well if it is the person involved I would not judge, but someone like myself, who has been helped by the list owes it to the list to give a feed back. I know that I too will eventually not post here any longer until the next emergency arrives, which I hope will be at least 5 years hence. >Here's a few others...did her tummy shrink before and after surgery (nerves, not >eating/well) Not before, but somewhat afterwards (obviously). >Is she getting her sense of smell and taste back? Never was very acute and seems to be the same as before. >Maybe someone who has quit, now cannot stand the smell of cigarettes in the home or >car? >Would it be helpful (soon) to have everything cleaned and/or painted? >J It is on the board. I would actually prefer to move if I could, but not now. Orping. > >> I feel the main reason for the improvement is the change in her mental > >> state. She seems to have made peace with herself and is coming to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >> just the way it was during menopause. but that he cut out the upper third of my right > lung. I wonder if location (of removal) makes a difference? My friend's FIL had lung surgery. IIRC his scar out the back was upper right just slightly below the armpit level.. He took almost a year before he was "comfortable" enough to drive and visit them (a different city). > <snipped> > > > Well if it is the person involved I would not judge, but someone like > myself, who has been helped by the list owes it to the list to give a > feed back. Thank you. Hopefully as your wife recovers, you'll be able to reassure others who are facing similar surgeries. > I know that I too will eventually not post here any longer until the > next emergency arrives, which I hope will be at least 5 years hence. Understood and it's with mixed feelings when I say goodbye to posters. I want them to go on with their lives but some are very appreciated here. > <snipped the part about sense of smell and taste and cleaning/moving> J >> >> but that he cut out the upper third of my right lung. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >He took almost a year before he was "comfortable" enough to drive and visit them (a >different city). Her incision seems to be identical. I think she has enough strength to drive locally (burbs) again, at least she wants to try. >> Well if it is the person involved I would not judge, but someone like >> myself, who has been helped by the list owes it to the list to give a >> feed back. > >Thank you. Hopefully as your wife recovers, you'll be able to reassure others who are >facing similar surgeries. I fully intend to stop by here every so often. I must admit, I admire your dedication and compassion shown. This particularly in view of having just read your reply to Jon, where I read about your own father. >> I know that I too will eventually not post here any longer until the >> next emergency arrives, which I hope will be at least 5 years hence. > >Understood and it's with mixed feelings when I say goodbye to posters. I want them to go on >with their lives but some are very appreciated here. I definitely will report here about the progress, or lack thereof, as things happen. At this time it looks as if the next step will be the next X-ray and visit in 3 months time. Orping > Actually, the post surgery consultation was today. > It was adenocarcinoma, Stage 1, with negative results from the biopsy [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Orping I quit smoking myself four years ago with the help of alt.support.stop-smoking (AS3), and since then have read that newsgroup fairly regularly. I have never seen anyone complain about nausea as a nicotine withdrawal symptom. But mood swings - oh my yes! And irritability and brain fog and weight gain and tiredness and depression. The only nausea I encountered happened when I forgot to take an anti-emetic with my pain medication after my lobectomy three months ago, and I'm sure your wife's doctors would not fail to consider this common problem. Is it possible that her nausea is a physical manifestation of the kind of mental anguish that can result from knowing that you caused your cancer and fear of the uncertainties in the future? If she is still having any problems with giving up cigarettes, I strongly urge her to visit AS3. I should caution you that sometimes there is a high level of profanity on this newsgroup. It is a place where people are encouraged to vent their rage, instead of taking it out on innocent bystanders. But the people there are very helpful to those who are trying to stop smoking. If she doesn't need any help, perhaps she'd be willing to come by and tell her story - it would help others there. This group was a source of more support to me during all the tests in the 4 months between my initial X Ray and my surgery than any real life family or friends. After my surgery I spent two long lonely days in the hospital, my first "visitor" was a 10 page fax of get-well messages from dozens of my quit smoking buddies that arrived at the hospital that night. If she would be more comfortable talking one-on-one, I can be reached at dawnbatbcsupernetdotcom. Dawn >> Now, 3 weeks after the operation she still has problems keeping down >> any food more solid than Jello and bananas, feeling queasy all the [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >anguish that can result from knowing that you caused your cancer and fear of >the uncertainties in the future? This is what I think too. The mental equivalent of motion sickness, where the mind has problems with the contradictory input from different senses. >If she is still having any problems with giving up cigarettes, I strongly >urge her to visit AS3. I should caution you that sometimes there is a high [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >to stop smoking. If she doesn't need any help, perhaps she'd be willing to >come by and tell her story - it would help others there. As she cannot type, it would be I who would have to do the visiting using the 2 finger eagle system (3 circles, one hit). You will have seen my separate post about smoking, not. Please pass it on in that group. If everybody but one thinks I'm wacky, we will have won. I am really too busy to join additional discussion groups, but I am willing to reply to eMail if that could be of help. > This group was a >source of more support to me during all the tests in the 4 months between my >initial X Ray and my surgery than any real life family or friends. After my >surgery I spent two long lonely days in the hospital, my first "visitor" was >a 10 page fax of get-well messages from dozens of my quit smoking buddies >that arrived at the hospital that night. Oh, how sad that there was no one to comfort you in person. At least I was there in ICU when she came to and visited 3 or 4 times a day. >If she would be more comfortable talking one-on-one, I can be reached at >dawnbatbcsupernetdotcom. > >Dawn At the moment it does not seem to be the smoking that is paramount on her mind. Then again, it may be but she may not want to mention it lest I may dispense unwanted advice. Thank you, your kind offer is appreciated. -- Orping Good luck and good news. The question of adjuvant or post-surgical treatment for stage 1 nsclc continues to be debated. She might consider Iressa or Celebrex, less intrusive treatments, to further improve survival though there are no clinical trials confirming their effectiveness on stage 1 patients. >Subject: Re: Lung Cancer Type? Stage? >From: orping@sympatico.ca [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > >Orping >Good luck and good news. Thanks. >The question of adjuvant or post-surgical treatment >for stage 1 nsclc continues to be debated. She might consider Iressa >or Celebrex, That would be fine for my wife's osteoarthritis and my doctor gave me some sample packs a couple of weeks ago to reduce any inflammation of the rotator cuff while the physiotherapist treats my frozen shoulder. I cannot find anything in the description of Celebrex that would be of benefit to a lung cancer condition. Please elaborate on that. >less intrusive treatments, to further improve survival though there >are no clinical trials confirming their effectiveness on stage 1 patients. http://www.iressa-us.com/ seems to be only used in a very advanced, post chemo / radiation treatment. You do say that there have been no positive results from clinical trials, but have you at least anecdotal evidence of benefits? Orping > >The question of adjuvant or post-surgical treatment > >for stage 1 nsclc continues to be debated. She might consider Iressa http://tinyurl.com/3c2s6 (BC Cancer Agency) "Guideline: There is insufficient evidence to recommend current chemotherapy regimens as post-operative adjuvant therapy in the management of patients with completely resected NSCLC "- read the rest. > >or Celebrex, > > That would be fine for my wife's osteoarthritis Perhaps not right now http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/coxib_ad.htm - see gastro There's 2 others...Sulindac and Mobicox (if you wish to look those up at the above) > and my doctor gave me > some sample packs a couple of weeks ago to reduce any inflammation of > the rotator cuff while the physiotherapist treats my frozen shoulder. How do you define frozen shoulder? Can't lift above the waist? or can't life above the shoulder? > I cannot find anything in the description of Celebrex that would be of > benefit to a lung cancer condition. Me either. The way I see it, the day it's on the celebrex webpage (for cancer) is the day it's believable or proven. JMO > Please elaborate on that. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > http://www.iressa-us.com/ seems to be only used in a very advanced, > post chemo / radiation treatment. See above...and/or do you really want your wife to have a constant reminder of the lung cancer? (taking medications when it's not indicated). BC ssems to keep Iressa as third-line treatment for advanced NSCLC http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/HPI/ChemotherapyProtocols/Lung/default.htm I don't know about Ontario J >> >The question of adjuvant or post-surgical treatment >> >for stage 1 nsclc continues to be debated. She might consider Iressa [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >I don't know about Ontario >J I did not feel howian@aol.com (Howian)'s reply was fully thought out, even though the disclaimer to Stage one was there, and I wanted to allow for a more detailed submission by her/him. I will not pursue this at this time as I do not think it being applicable to my wife's situation. Orping > <snipped adjuvant Celebrex and /or Iressa> > > I did not feel howian@aol.com (Howian)'s reply was fully thought out, > even though the disclaimer to Stage one was there, and I wanted to > allow for a more detailed submission by her/him. Well, that's up to him to do so, if he wishes and he does not "spam" our newsgroup with his "services"/web page/book. . As you said he did post "no clinical trials confirming their effectiveness on stage 1 patients". On the other hand, who am I to talk you out of it? That's between you, your wife and the oncologist's (best advice on that). > I will not pursue this at this time as I do not think it being > applicable to my wife's situation. Well, since you mentioned osteoarthritis, here's another theory. Is it possible her pain (from the surgery or the OA) is not well-controlled and she's in the process of self-flagellating? ie putting up with the pain, feeling that she "deserves it" for smoking. I do think I've read on other newsgroups (or here) that severe pain can result in nausea..??? I'm not sure which is more expensive Sulindac or Celebrex. I suppose if her doctors don't object, perhaps one of them could provide samples to try? J >> I will not pursue this at this time as I do not think it being >> applicable to my wife's situation. ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ >Well, since you mentioned osteoarthritis, here's another theory. >Is it possible her pain (from the surgery or the OA) is not well-controlled and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >try? >J >> >> I cannot find anything in the description of Celebrex that would be of > >> benefit to a lung cancer condition. Celebrex doesn't cure aything but can be very effective in lung cancer pain, as are all NSAIDs MIKE >>> >> I cannot find anything in the description of Celebrex that would be of >> >> benefit to a lung cancer condition. >> > >Celebrex doesn't cure aything but can be very effective in lung cancer pain, >as are all NSAIDs >MIKE Thanks for clarifying. May I assume that "lung cancer pain" refers to a Stage where chemo or radiology treatments are applied, not the post operative pain of Stage 1. Orping > >>> >> I cannot find anything in the description of Celebrex that would be of > >> >> benefit to a lung cancer condition. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Orping NSAIDs are very good for some post op pain too. MIKE Fifth week post-operative Progress Report. The good news is that the stomach upsets have gone a way completely, food tastes fine again, catching up on the sleep and she hasn't used any pain killers for two weeks. Chills and hot flashes seem to be a thing of the past and the only weird thing remains the occasional sudden crying. The bad news is .... oops there doesn't seem to be any! She went to her psychiatrist by herself today, a 100 km return drive across Toronto during the morning rush hour. - I really feel for Shirley. I know she has to honour her mother, but she must also make sure that she does not jeopardizes her work visa situation as it, eventually will become more important to look after the well being of her daughter. When my sister called me that my mother was in the hospital, I asked how bad it was since my mother was not only very sick person, she was also a hypochondriac and I could not afford to drop everything and fly to Europe several times a year. When my sister went into an uncontrollable sob, I called my boss and told him that first off I had booked a flight for 2 weeks and I would call him from over there. I stayed 3 weeks. They sent my mother home after the first week and I sat with her all day long talking with her when she was lucid. I asked the doctor about a prognosis, pointing out that I had to get back to Canada but would extend my stay if death would be imminent. He told me that he could not predict as they did not really know, but he thought it could be a few days or it could be as long as 6 months. My mother passed away 3 weeks after I left. Eventually, after the sorrow ebbed away I made peace with myself that I had gone and spent the time with her. I was 'luckier' than Shirley as my father was still alive, my younger sister came by daily and my other sister and brothers dropped in once or twice a week. This reminds me, I must not fail to thank the posters who have gone through the cancer treatment and share their experience with us. It does help an awful lot to allay ones fears of the uncertainty. Thank you, Orping > Fifth week post-operative Progress Report. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > She went to her psychiatrist by herself today, a 100 km return drive > across Toronto during the morning rush hour. Wow ! things are looking up... Good to hear the news, Orping J (I'll try to get back to the rest of your post later) > I really feel for Shirley. > I know she has to honour her mother, but she must also make sure that [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > sister came by daily and my other sister and brothers dropped in once > or twice a week. Hi Orping, From personal experiences, I know how tough it is when our loved one is far away. For years, Dad had been going into hospital at least once a year and later twice a year (usually infections). When we'd get the word, one sibling would call the others and then we'd have to gauge, is this a "tuneup" or should we drop everything and just go? Difficult decisions in those with cancer or other chronic health problems. Tough on everyone. We want to be there, they want us there (usually), but not always practical. So I feel for you. I am happy to hear that you had some quality time with your mother and that there were other siblings nearby also, although I know many of us want to be there right to the end also. I'm glad you've found peace with that. I'm still working on that issue about my Mom. What's passed is passed, but I so wish I could have had one more week or a few days to spend with her, talking with her and give her a hug. (if only I had known). Best wishes and thanks for your post. J >> I stayed 3 weeks. They sent my mother home after the first week and I >> sat with her all day long talking with her when she was lucid. [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > >Best wishes and thanks for your post. J, as this was in 1978 I have gotten enough distance not to feel sad any longer. Daily I am reminded of her by things I see and I am very happy thinking of her and what she had done for us kids. My father did not allow visitors or pets in the house. I was 13 years old when I found out that he had 2 sisters. One an hour and the other a 4 hour bicycle ride away. I have never seen any grand parents and as the youngest of 5 I was very attached to my mother. When she passed away I, at the age of 35, had never experienced a the loss of a dear one. It hit me very hard and I was mad at the world and all and sundry. As much as half a year later I used to get mad at colleagues at work when they were telling any jokes within ear shot. It took a long time to heal, but heal it did. As I said, I have thoughts about my mother several times a day, but they are always happy. Even now, writing about this, I feel no sorrow. She was the most instrumental person in forming me and I am glad thinking of her and the mark she left on us kids. I don't think you should berate yourself for not having had that extra chance. You know you did not act from ill will. I do not feel guilty at all for not having stayed the extra 3 weeks to the very end. I had quality time with her and that give me peace. Thanks for listening. Orping Orping wrote, >Fifth week post-operative Progress Report. > >The good news is that the stomach upsets have gone a way completely, >food tastes fine again, catching up on the sleep and she hasn't used >any pain killers for two weeks. >Chills and hot flashes seem to be a thing of the past and the only >weird thing remains the occasional sudden crying. >The bad news is .... oops there doesn't seem to be any! >She went to her psychiatrist by herself today, a 100 km return drive >across Toronto during the morning rush hour. That is a good sign, that she has not needed the painkillers for a while, and that she has an appetite. The crying is good also. I know I do it and feel better afterwards. It is a way of relieving stress and anxiety. >Orping wrote, > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >that she has an appetite. The crying is good also. I know I do it and feel >better afterwards. It is a way of relieving stress and anxiety. Thanks, I ran into her GP at Tim Horton's this morning and he asked how she was doing now. Told him that, except for those crying bursts (not usually witnessed by myself), she is back to normal. He said " Is she eating normal again?" and I told him that she is so back to normal that our fierce arguments are flaring up again. 'T was good for a chuckle, albeit a cheap shot on my side, but I think it told him more than doctoral dissertation would have done. Orping Orping wrote: >I ran into her GP at Tim Horton's this morning and he asked how she >was doing now. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Orping LOL. Similar to my household, although I was staying with my elderly parents while I recuperated from surgery. They insisted as the insurance would not pay for a nurse to come in to me after the first 3 weeks home. They are in their 70's and in very good health, and I'm the one laying in the bed, although I would rather it be me than them anyway. I'm thankful to have them, that's for sure. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.