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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Cancer / April 2004

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Cancer treatment

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JP - 06 Apr 2004 03:52 GMT
Does anyone have any information about a new cancer treatment developed in
Lebanon by Nabil Habib ?
Steph - 06 Apr 2004 08:08 GMT
> Does anyone have any information about a new cancer treatment developed in
> Lebanon by Nabil Habib ?

Yes, it's nonsense.
JP - 06 Apr 2004 17:58 GMT
A friend told me that one of their tenants was using this treatment with
great results and offered to give me the phone number so I can contact an
oncologist from Lebanon.  I don't know what this treatment is and I have not
had much success in finding any information on the web. I was hoping that
some new drug can make a  positive difference in an increasingly difficult
situation.

My mother is currently undergoing chemotherapy with Gemcitabine and the MRI
has shown that after 2 cycles  a 20-25% decrease in her nasopharyngeal
tumor.
I have seen a new clinical trial that is currently offering a combination of
Flavopiridol with Gemcitabine for Head and Neck cancers.
We are hoping that she continues to show improvement with her treatment, but
if there is something additional that we can do we are open for suggestions.
Thank you Steph for taking the time to help people living with cancer.
Hopefully some day soon a cure can be found.
Sincerely,
JP

> > Does anyone have any information about a new cancer treatment developed in
> > Lebanon by Nabil Habib ?
>
> Yes, it's nonsense.
Steph - 07 Apr 2004 02:50 GMT
> A friend told me that one of their tenants was using this treatment with
> great results and offered to give me the phone number so I can contact an
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Sincerely,
> JP

Good luck to her, JP
But I'll say what I say often  -- for over 50% of people the cure has
already been found....
Gene Fuller - 09 Apr 2004 00:13 GMT
And the cure is what?

Gene

> > A friend told me that one of their tenants was using this treatment with
> > great results and offered to give me the phone number so I can contact an
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
> But I'll say what I say often  -- for over 50% of people the cure has
> already been found....
Steph - 09 Apr 2004 01:50 GMT
> And the cure is what?
>
> Gene

Cures.
Surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy
Gene Fuller - 09 Apr 2004 05:31 GMT
> > And the cure is what?
> >
> > Gene
>
> Cures.
> Surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy

That is what I thought you meant, and I have no reason to disagree with you.
But the propaganda from the opposition says that none of these provide real
cures, merely palliative treatment if that. I need a pointer to some solid
data showing cures.

My wife is believing the propaganda for products such as Protocel, and other
for me baseless claims.

Gene
Steph - 09 Apr 2004 09:05 GMT
> > > And the cure is what?
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Gene

The data are all in the public domain.
You can believe what you hope is true, and you can believe what the facts
show is true. We all have that choice.
Gene Fuller - 09 Apr 2004 19:36 GMT
Steph,

What you have told me is true, I am sure. The data are all in the public
domain. However I can find the propaganda from the anti-conventional
treatment folks, and find very little or none of the other.

When I was a child more than 60 years ago and old man that I respected often
told us that people believe what they want to believe, so I agree with him
and with you on that point as well. I still would like some pointers to that
data in the public domain which show cure rates of specifically Stage II
Breast Cancer both with and without chemo and radiation, along with firm
data on damage caused by treatment.

Gene

> > > > And the cure is what?
> > > >
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> You can believe what you hope is true, and you can believe what the facts
> show is true. We all have that choice.
J - 10 Apr 2004 01:48 GMT
> Steph,
>
> What you have told me is true, I am sure. The data are all in the public
> domain. However I can find the propaganda from the anti-conventional
> treatment folks, and find very little or none of the other.

Why would doctors or researchers waste time on something that they know is
absolutely useless in the treatment of cancer? Need it be said more than once on
various websites?
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/cancer.html
Questionable Cancer Therapies
CanCell -- originally called Entelev and recently renamed Cantron and Protocel
-- is a liquid claimed to cure cancer by "lowering the voltage of the cell
structure by about 20%," causing cancer cells to "digest" and be replaced with
normal cells. Accompanying directions have warned that bottles of CanCell should
not be allowed to touch each other or be placed near any electrical appliance or
outlet. CanCell has also been promoted for the treatment of AIDS, amyotrophic
lateral sclerosis, multiple sclerosis, Alzheimer's disease, "extreme cases of
emphysema and diabetes," and several other diseases. In 1989, the FDA reported
that CanCell contained inositol, nitric acid, sodium sulfite, potassium
hydroxide, sulfuric acid, and catechol. Subsequently, its promoters claimed to
be modifying the formulation to make it more effective [11]. They have also
claimed that CanCell can't be analyzed because it varies with atmospheric
vibrations and keeps changing its energy [12]. Laboratory tests conducted
between 1978 and 1991 by the NCI found no evidence that CanCell was effective
against cancer. The FDA has obtained an injunction forbidding its distribution
to patients."
also http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/PPI/UnconventionalTherapies/CancellEntelev.htm
(there are some books or references mentioned at the bottom of this page).

> When I was a child more than 60 years ago and old man that I respected often
> told us that people believe what they want to believe, so I agree with him
> and with you on that point as well. I still would like some pointers to that
> data in the public domain which show cure rates of specifically Stage II
> Breast Cancer both with and without chemo and radiation, along with firm
> data on damage caused by treatment.

And why would you or your wife expect potentially curative treatments to not
have potential side effects?
Anyhow, I expect Steph may have cure rates for his area of our country.
What type of breast cancer does she have?

There are statistics on various sites
http://seer.cancer.gov/
http://www.cancer.org/docroot/STT/STT_0.asp

HTH
J
Gene Fuller - 10 Apr 2004 03:53 GMT
Thank you for the reply, I think. <G> I have no desire for doctors or
researchers to emulate the salesmen for the "elixirs" by piling dirt on
them. I merely asked for something that I could find on the net (actually I
don't think I asked it that narrowley, just where should I look) which would
give some solid evidence with a little more hope than "we think this works
part of the time. ) Actually I have a Grandson who is about 4-5 yers into
surviving with (or from) Ewing's Sarcoma. He underwent a lot of chemo, had a
section of the diseased bone removed, and so far appears to be doing well. I
don't have any idea what he was promised, but he is alive and well.

I have read the claims about Protocel in its various incarnations, and the
book by someone showing somethin like 17 endorsements of its effectiveness.
I also found somewhere that those are not really as well off as the book
claims, etc. So I am not at all convinced that taking the stuff does
anything more than keep my wife busy every 4 hours and probably leave a bad
taste in her mouth. But she is not. Nor is she willing at this point even to
talk with her oncologist again since she believes the propaganda.

I truly appreciate the link to quackwatch. It tells me what I have read
before. With just enough knowledge of electronics to be dangerous, I took a
dim view of the idea that this mixture would lower the "voltage" in cancer
cells.

I do no texpect any good thing to be devoid of unpleasant side effects. I
had an emergency appendectomy in 1944 and spent a month in the hospital. My
surgeon had experienced a similar ailment in the 30's and had maggots used
to clean up his intestines. Both of us lived. He is now 97 I think. I had
quintuple bypass surgery 4 years ago. I assume that had I not, I would be
reclining under ground. It was not without unpleasant side effects. That is
not what I asked for, however.

Dorothy's breast cancer showed as a lump on her mammogram. Needle biopsy was
inconclusive but the pathologist who is a friend of mine said it had to come
out. It came out. Clean margins, but the surgeon took 20 lymph nodes of
which 3 contained cancer cells. Bone scan negative, lung x-rays negative.
Liver functions, I think, and blood work, normal.

We are getting on toward 2 months from diagnosis. She is said to be Stage 2,
and the cancer moderately aggressive. She is 59. Oncologist says if she was
maybe 75 he would recommend a less agressive treatment regimen. But he
recommends chmo (4 treatments over 8 weeks of one mix, followed by 4
treatments over 8 weeks of another) and then 30 chemo treatments, 5 a wek
for six weeks. Followed by arimodex for 5 years.

Seems very reasonable to me to at least start this.

Gene

> > Steph,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> to patients."
> also
http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/PPI/UnconventionalTherapies/CancellEntelev.htm
> (there are some books or references mentioned at the bottom of this page).
>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> HTH
> J
Steph - 10 Apr 2004 04:50 GMT
> Steph,
>
> What you have told me is true, I am sure. The data are all in the public
> domain. However I can find the propaganda from the anti-conventional
> treatment folks, and find very little or none of the other.

That's because we don't do propaganda. It's unethical.

> When I was a child more than 60 years ago and old man that I respected often
> told us that people believe what they want to believe, so I agree with him
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Gene

Try doing a google search for the SEER data.
Gene Fuller - 10 Apr 2004 05:38 GMT
> > Steph,
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> That's because we don't do propaganda. It's unethical.

Well, I think the word "propaganda" has some ethical meanings as well, but I
was not really asking for propaganda, you know.

Snip

Thank you. Someone else suggested that, and I have taken a quick look. It
will take me a bit more time to see what all is there.

Gene
 
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