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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / April 2004bad news about Catharine Honeyman, I think (from her sister, Jennifer)
Hi to all you great, supportive people on this newsgroup. My apologies for jumping in without knowing the etiquette here, but just tonight I heard from my aunt (who my sister, Catharine, has been living with near Hilo, HI) that Catharine has been nauseated & not eating or drinking much the last week. Since Saturday she hasn't wanted to get out of bed and often isn't coherent. She is sleeping a lot and has refused her Oxycontin yesterday. She won't wake up enough to talk to me on the phone. I've tried to keep up with the medical details of her mets, but of course I'm no M.D. At first I was hoping that maybe this latest round of nausea and not eating was related to a similar-seeming episode a year or two ago, but I just finished talking to her oncologist (after a hurried trip to Kinko's to fax her POA so that he WOULD talk to me: why weren't she & I as organized with the paperwork as we always thought we would be??), and he seems pretty sure about the diagnosis. And that's the reason for my posting--to let you all know what I know, and to ask your opinion of it. He says that her calcium levels on 4/6 were 12 (when she was still walking and talking, albeit slowly), and by now they're probably higher. Upper end of normal is 10, he says, and coma is at 14-16. Of course you all know the calcium is leaching out of her bones due to the mets--I think I knew that could happen. So my question to you: does all that make sense? I bet that the combined knowledge & experience in this newsgroup might surpass that of her oncologist (who hasn't seen her since 4/6 and says he probably doesn't need to see her again--he's referred her to hospice). I am, as you can all imagine, incredibly sad. Yes, I knew that this was going to happen someday, but when the someday becomes now I find that I am quite overwhelmed. And another question--I remember that she & I once talked about the various ways metastasis might ultimately kill her. If I remember correctly, hypercalcemia was one of her PREFERRED ways, since it's painless. Is that right? That is, if it has to happen, is this not so awful for her? Her oncologist suggested that I go see her soon, if I do want to see her again (I'm in Texas, she's in Hawaii). So I imagine I'll be heading out in a few days: the hospice nurse is going out for a first visit tomorrow, and I might wait and see what she has to say after assessing the situation. What should I expect? Wouldn't it be great if she recovered after ingesting a little V8? Then she and I could laugh over my premature posting to the newsgroup. Jennifer Jennifer, I'm so sorry to hear about Catherine. She's put up a phenomenal fight against this damned beast and has survived so much with that delightful flippant outlook. Her spirit has been a treasure for a lot of people. Don't know anything about hypercalcemia meaning no pain, but if that's true, that's certainly what I'd wish for her too. -- The fact that she refused the oxycontin says perhaps it is true, and that she''s finally getting some rest, thank goodness. As for waiting: You need to do what is best for you, but If it were me, I'd expect that consult first thing in the morning and would be on an afternoon plane. She's been through so very much, yet HAS rallied before, so maybe she will again. You never know. -- Just be prepared there may be a possibility she can't this time and it's time to say goodbye in whatever way will bring both of you the most comfort. I'm so sorry. Know prayers and lots of love and support are with you both. God Bless, Adrienne -- whom Catherine doesn't actually know, although we exchanged a few emails about the time we were both diagnosed. I've since watched her progress and taken strength from her courage. Furthermore, I learned to love who she is and will always feel blessed for having shared her journey. > Hi to all you great, supportive people on this newsgroup. My > apologies for jumping in without knowing the etiquette here, but just [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Jennifer Hi Jennifer, I've watched Catharine's battle for years now here and admired her strength, courage and wit. Hypercalcemia is explained here http://www.nci.nih.gov/cancerinfo/pdq/supportivecare/hypercalcemia/patient/ The most common symptoms of hypercalcemia are feeling tired, difficulty thinking clearly, lack of appetite, pain, frequent urination, increased thirst, constipation, nausea, and vomiting. Symptoms of hypercalcemia may include weakness, loss of reflexes in the muscles, and decreased stamina. Patients with central nervous system symptoms may have changes in personality, difficulty thinking or speaking clearly, disorientation, or hallucinations. Eventually, coma may result. Headaches can also occur, which can be made worse by vomiting and dehydration. " They mention death by slipping into a coma or heart attack. If the heart is strong, then I would suspect the former would happen. They also mention nausea, so it seems to fit with your description. They do mention pain but Catharine had other pain treatment methods, other than by mouth, so I expect that the hospice nurse will know what to do. Treatment for hypercalcemia is replacement of fluids and various medications up to dialysis in kidney failure. So if her Advance Care Directive states that she does not want fluid replacement nor aggressive treatment, hospice or you would likely be dripping a bit of water into her mouth with a sponge and keeping her mouth dry as we did with my Dad. We could tell that his circulation was shutting down shortly after, by the darkening colour of his feet and legs and the ever decreasing amount of urine. He floated in and out of consciousness and at some point faintly replied when we said a prayer. (so the message is talk to her, she may know you are there). What happens next very much depends on her Advance Care Directive. If she does have a time of being coherent, I'd sure give her a tablespoon of V-8, but you'll have to take your cue from her and the hospice nurse on that. This is the website that we post on alt.support.cancer (which has general descriptions) when someone asks about the various processes of dying. http://crossingthecreek.com/guts.htm I would like to think that she will rally, but based on your description and the oncologist's statement, I rather doubt it, sadly. So I hope you'll be on the first plane to see her. My thoughts go with you. Hugs to you both. J Dear Jennifer, my heart goes out to you and your family. You know how much I care about Catharine. And of course you are welcome to post here however you wish. Yes, this sounds familiar to me, this is the way it ended for my wife. She was sleeping more and more; when we transferred her to the hospice she smiled at me and just went to sleep within a couple of hours, and didn't wake again. Over the next 48 hours her breathing slowed, went a bit irregular, and stopped. No indications of pain or distress at all. When I talked to the consultant about helping her, eg I could see she was going into dehydration, he said at best I would wake her up and cause pain and distress, that I wouldn't be doing her any favours at this stage, and that it was best to leave her be. There has to come a stage when we commit to a landing and quit trying to fly the plane, but try to put down gracefully. I know that Catharine had an episode last year which -looked- like cachexia (the wasting stage when you don't want to (or can't) eat or drink) but rebalancing her electrolytes brought her back. I think this time it is the real thing, and received wisdom is that cachexia is an irreversible symptom of advanced cancer, although the mechanism is not fully understood. I think the hypercalcemia is not simply due to bone mets, I think it happens even if they are not present, and has to do with failure of the body's mechanisms for disposing of calcium through the kidneys. I do hope that if this must be the end for Catharine, that it is peaceful. Of course I share your hope that a little V8 would bring her back again, but I think we must accept that the chances are against it. If you do get to speak to her, please give her my love. Tim Jackson > Hi to all you great, supportive people on this newsgroup. My > apologies for jumping in without knowing the etiquette here, but just [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > Jennifer Jennifer, so sorry to hear that Catharine is dealing with all this. So difficult...so unfair... I agree with another poster here--think you should get there a.s.a.p. Of course one cannot predict conclusively how one will respond to this beast, but it does sound as if not the most encouraging of times for her. Please, when you see here--send her my love. My best thoughts and prayers are with her and you all at this time. {{{Hugs}}} At first I was hoping that maybe this latest round > of nausea and not eating was related to a similar-seeming episode a > year or two ago, but I just finished talking to her oncologist (after > a hurried trip to Kinko's to fax her POA so that he WOULD talk to me: > why weren't she & I as organized with the paperwork as we always > thought we would be??), and he seems pretty sure about the diagnosis. ). Sorry to hear about Catharine, she is such a great and witty person.It doesn't sound like the oncologist is going to aggressively treat the high calcium and this point it would almost be pointless. Catharine would have discussed her wishes when she was able and it sounds like the MD is honoring them. Calicum is an electrolyte that affects normal heart rhythms and increases sensitivity to some heart medications (such as digoxin) . As calcium levels increase, irregular heartbeats may develop and could cause cardiac death. Please keep us posted and You and Catharine are in my thoughts. Alex Hello Jennifer, I too count myself among the fortunate to have known Catharine. Her courage and humor in the face of this miserable disease is an inspiration. I hope that if these are the final steps in Catharine's journey, they are peaceful and that you get to be with her. My love to her and to you. Barb It's me again, with an update. The hospice nurse has been to see Catharine--the nurse says Catharine is not coherent today, has lost bowel and bladder continence (oh, my hopes that she someday sees this post and is mortified that I said that!), and drank only a few ounces of water today (no food). She hasn't taken any meds in at least 24 hours. I am getting on a plane in a few short hours and should be at my aunt's house by Thurs afternoon, Hawaii time. Tentatively I will stay there until 4/21, but of course that may change. Like Catharine, I won't have any email access while there. I have printed the newsgroup postings and will bring them with me to read to her. I had the exquisitely sweet experience of talking briefly on the phone to her yesterday afternoon: I had been terrifically afraid that she and I would never again have a true exchange of words, so the small conversation we had was very welcome. I told her I loved her, and with slow, slurring words she said, "You're so sweet." Then I asked her if she was tired, and again with slow, slurring words she said, "Terribly tired." I asked if she wanted me to come, and she said, "Yes." If that is our final conversation, so be it. It was a sort of goodbye. I am glad that I am going out to be with her--I dread the trip but I am looking forward to seeing her. Thank you for all your support. I'll keep you updated when I can. Jennifer > It's me again, with an update. The hospice nurse has been to see > Catharine--the nurse says Catharine is not coherent today, has lost > bowel and bladder continence (oh, my hopes that she someday sees this > post and is mortified that I said that!), I don't think she would be - Catharine has given us some very graphic descriptions of her symptoms in the past, releasing self confidence in everyone who's read her posts. Thank you for keeping us up to date, I hope you understand how important your contact with us has been. Catharine is very important to all who had got to know her. The word 'love' has appeared so often in these posts not by co-incidence but because it's meant, very truly. Hugs, Mary Jennifer, I am glad you are getting to see her. Thanks for keeping us as posted as you can about Catherine. I have missed her posts to the group and I will continue to miss her. Her attitude has really helped me a lot. Be strong, Chris > It's me again, with an update. The hospice nurse has been to see > Catharine--the nurse says Catharine is not coherent today, has lost [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Thank you for all your support. I'll keep you updated when I can. > Jennifer > It's me again, with an update. The hospice nurse has been to see > Catharine--the nurse says Catharine is not coherent today, has [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > aunt's house by Thurs afternoon, Hawaii time. Tentatively I will > stay there until 4/21, but of course that may change. Sending many prayers. May God bless and comfort all. > Like Catharine, I won't have any email access while there. I have > printed the newsgroup postings and will bring them with me to read [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > Thank you for all your support. I'll keep you updated when I can. > Jennifer It's probably too late for you to get this, but tell her that we're giving her the HOOK 'EM HORNS here in Austin TX at the University where she went to school. Jennifer, I have not checked the newsgroup for a few weeks and this was the first post I honed in on. I know I'm too late for your trip, but I just wanted to let you know that Catharine has been an inspiration to all of us here. Her sense of humor through all this horribleness has been nothing less than inspiring. I'm praying so hard that either she pops back or that, if it happens, her passing will be painless. If you get email access while in HI, please add me to your list of people who are so very concerned about her. I remember some of the posts where she talked about you - I'm so glad that you are going to be there for her. Thinking and praying for both of you. Take care. ...lisa Hi, Jennifer - I just got back from a business trip and read your news. I've met Catharine twice - the second time my wife (the cancer survivor in our family) spent a day in Seattle sightseeing with her while I did work stuff. She's a special person - and more than once she gave me hope when I was too new at this to find any on my own. She will be missed. To my friend Catharine, all I have to say is thank you, and Godspeed. allan  Signaturewe see things not as they are, but as we are. -- Anais Nin You are the lucky one to have met Catharine, she is a special person. Alex >You are the lucky one to have met Catharine, she is a special person. Alex Yes - I've always thought I was extremely fortunate. The first time we met I was on a business trip to Seattle - she and her husband-at-the-time David and I went to what is now my favorite soul food restaurant on the planet and then took a tour through Seattle's Asian Art Museum. The next trip was probably three months later and Catharine, David, Deborah and I had seafood on Puget Sound and then drove around doing interesting night photography things. Catharine and Deborah did some sightseeing the following day while I was working. Catharine and I exchanged email for several months - and I have a postcard she sent me from Hawaii a few months back. There were a few times she stood by me when I was new at this and everything was new and frightening. She'll always be special to me - I know she is to a lot of others here as well. allan Signaturewe see things not as they are, but as we are. -- Anais Nin > Hi, Jennifer - > > I just got back from a business trip and read your news. > > I've met Catharine twice ... Allan, I think you had a picture of Catharine in her stunning days - any chance of our seeing it and being reminded of her physical beauty to go with her personality beauty?. Mary >Allan, I think you had a picture of Catharine in her stunning days - any >chance of our seeing it and being reminded of her physical beauty to go with >her personality beauty?. I did - but transferred all that stuff to Tim when cancersupporters.com changed hands. He may still have it. edit: I looked. He still has it - if you head out to http://www.cancersupporters.com you'll see it at the bottom of Catharine's bio page. allan Signaturewe see things not as they are, but as we are. -- Anais Nin > >Allan, I think you had a picture of Catharine in her stunning days - any > >chance of our seeing it and being reminded of her physical beauty to go with [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > allan Allan, that's not the picture I was thinking of but the bio was worth reading, it reminded me of so many things I'd forgotten about Catharine's history. If anyone's reading this - go to the page. If you know Catharine you'll love her even more, if you don't you'll begin to understand why we do. And the links too - I'd no idea of that side of Catharaine. Allan, thank you for leading me there. Tim, thankyou for making the site. I'll go to the bio part again. Mary >Allan, that's not the picture I was thinking of but the bio was worth >reading, it reminded me of so many things I'd forgotten about Catharine's >history. Ah - I know the picture you're talking about. She was hiding behind a big stone animal of some kind - I took that picture in front of the Asian Art Museum. I'm looking through a whole pile of digital pictures - if I find it I'll put it on the web and post a link. allan Signaturewe see things not as they are, but as we are. -- Anais Nin > Allan, thank you for leading me there. > > Tim, thankyou for making the site. Not guilty. Allan built the bio. system, I just took over managing it and providing the webspace when Allan was no longer able to do so (and I built the FAQ). And of course Catharine made her web page herself - it is a DIY system. If you are interested, Volcano Village Hawaii, where Catharine now lives, has its own website, www.volcanovillage.com Tim Allan, I looked again too. Mary's right.....there's so much to love about Catharine. My thanks for posting the link again. It was wonderful to read and see her picture again. Hope you can find the one you have. Hope Deborah is doing well. You guys are often in my thoughts. Barb Thanks Allan... I had lost track of the site and appreciate very much you posting the link for it again. I've been cleaning folders and other things and think it was deleted by mistake. I wanted to remember Catharine always, so I printed it out her Bio page and am tucking it away in a drawer. She's an amazing women and I too feel you're very lucky to have met her. I often thought while reading her posts that I wanted tp be just like her when I grew up. I so miss her posts, and told her on many occassions {when she was actively posting} that she was truly an inspiration to me to keep going forward with whatever I had to do to get better. Going over and reading her Bio again, that I had forgotten that her cancer was as advanced as it was upon her dx. She says that her bilateral mast was April 8, 1999. {I think} That was the day of my first biopsy {first dx} Thank you so much for posting the link so we could all read what a wonderful young girl she is...My thoughts and prayers are with her and her family. And as a few have posted I hope "if" she is going to pass, that she goes gently into the night, she's more then earned a peaceful passing. She is missed already... Take care there/God bless you and Deb and keep you safe. annie p/s this is indeed very sad, even though I never knew that well.... Ultimately.....we know deeply that the other side of every fear is a freedom. "Courage"...is *fear* that has said it's prayers. It's me again. I'm still in Hawaii--it turns out that my aunt and uncle have a cable modem. Catharine died last night (Mon, 4/20), at around 10pm Hawaii time. I'm hesitant about posting the details of her death, but I find I desperately want to tell you dear people about it. I've written out a detailed narrative of my time here, including her last hours--if you'd like to read it, email me and I'll send it. It is, perhaps, a bit too much for some, though. In short, though, I got here Thurs evening and she was unresponsive. Fri & Sat she perked up a bit, but Sunday she was unresponsive again. Monday her breathing became labored, and she died Mon night with me sitting on her bed next to her, holding her hand and talking to her. I think and hope it was relatively painless and peaceful. I said everything I could possibly think of to her, including, of course, "I love you" about a zillion times. I am very very very very very glad that I was with her for the end. I feel sure she wanted me there and I wanted very much to be there, too. Now I miss her. I will return to Texas tomorrow with her ashes, but I (and other family members, including our brother and father) will return in a few weeks (with the ashes) for her memorial service. We'll have it on Oahu: there's a surfing spot called No Place (my uncle the surfer says he can find it), out in Waikiki Harbor, where we scattered my grandfather's ashes. We'll take a boat out there and do the same with hers. My aunt and I were very impressed with Hospice of Hilo. They helped Catharine's passing go as smoothly as possible, and in a way that was (I hope) comfortable and comforting to her. I am thinking I'd like to get involved with hospice when I get back to Texas. Thank you for the link to her bio. I had never seen that before and read it eagerly--what a joy to read her words. So, dear newsgroup people who have unfortunately walked down this path, what next? Am I going insane if I still walk around the house and talk to her? When will I ever sleep again? Will my muscles ever relax? I do so miss her. Jennifer > Catharine died last night (Mon, 4/20), at around 10pm Hawaii time. ((Jennifer!)) > I'm hesitant about posting the details of her death, but I find I > desperately want to tell you dear people about it. I've written out a > detailed narrative of my time here, including her last hours--if you'd > like to read it, email me and I'll send it. It is, perhaps, a bit too > much for some, though. I'd certainly like to read it. If you wish I could attach it to her bio so that all interested can look at it there without your having to resort to individual emails. I can put a "health warning" in front of it if necessary. > So, dear newsgroup people who have unfortunately walked down this > path, what next? Am I going insane if I still walk around the house > and talk to her? When will I ever sleep again? Will my muscles ever > relax? No you are not going insane. If you deal with what you can, and learn to put the rest away for later, to deal with it from time to time, then over time you will become used to her new place in your life. Don'ts are: don't try to deal with it all at once; don't try to shut it out, bottle it up, and not deal with it at all; and most of all, don't listen to what anyone tells you, including me. Every situation is unique, what works for one person may not work for another. For some reason, our expectations of grief seem to be often far removed from the reality, so don't worry too much about what other people expect, do what feels right for you. > I do so miss her. I am sure I can safely say that we here all miss her too. I know I do, terribly. I'm so glad you were able to be there. Tim Jennifer, I'm so sorry to hear that Catharine has died. God, she was something so very special to all of us. She has always been the one person I've looked up to because she was so doggone spunky, so very open and honest. I'm sure I'm not the only one to say this, but Catharine gave so much to all of us. She'll always live in our hearts. I would like very much to read about Catharine's final days with you and your thoughts. Funny how someone I never met could be so special in my life and everyone else's too. Catharine and you and your family are in my prayers and my heart. Mary K > > "Jennifer L" <jlehman@mail.utexas.edu> wrote in message > news:98d70a38.0404202321.f2cdf96@posting.google.com... > > Catharine died last night (Mon, 4/20), at around 10pm Hawaii time. > > > ((Jennifer!)) > > > I'm hesitant about posting the details of her death, but I find I > > desperately want to tell you dear people about it. I've written out a > > detailed narrative of my time here, including her last hours--if you'd > > like to read it, email me and I'll send it. It is, perhaps, a bit too > > much for some, though. > > > I'd certainly like to read it. If you wish I could attach it to her bio so > that all interested can look at it there without your having to resort to > individual emails. I can put a "health warning" in front of it if > necessary. > > > So, dear newsgroup people who have unfortunately walked down this > > path, what next? Am I going insane if I still walk around the house > > and talk to her? When will I ever sleep again? Will my muscles ever > > relax? > > > No you are not going insane. If you deal with what you can, and learn to > put the rest away for later, to deal with it from time to time, then over > time you will become used to her new place in your life. > > Don'ts are: don't try to deal with it all at once; don't try to shut it out, > bottle it up, and not deal with it at all; and most of all, don't listen to > what anyone tells you, including me. > > Every situation is unique, what works for one person may not work for > another. For some reason, our expectations of grief seem to be often far > removed from the reality, so don't worry too much about what other people > expect, do what feels right for you. > > > I do so miss her. > > > I am sure I can safely say that we here all miss her too. I know I do, > terribly. > > I'm so glad you were able to be there. > > > Tim > > > > I'm hesitant about posting the details of her death, but I find I > > desperately want to tell you dear people about it. I've written out a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that all interested can look at it there without your having to resort to > individual emails. That's the obvious, and sensible thing to do, Tim, I support you totally. > I can put a "health warning" in front of it if > necessary. Well, we're not daft round here are we? Catharine shared so many horrible details with us that we shouldn't pussy foot round the truth. We who have or have contact with this condition surely can decide whether we want to read something or not? Newcomers to the group, who didn't know Catharine, would possible not see it anyway for some time. It was only because I asked Allan about Catharine's picture that many of us already here were reminded of your site. Until I can think of a better, it would be a great memorial to Catharine, I feel that she would approve. It would also be an acknowledgement and our small appreciation of Jennifer's part in the drama. But you know that I will bow to your better judgement in most things, if you think it's desirable to put a caveat please don't be influenced by me. Just don't do nothing ... Catharine deserves better than that. XMX > Newcomers to the group, who didn't know Catharine, would possible not see it > anyway for some time. It was only because I asked Allan about Catharine's > picture that many of us already here were reminded of your site. Ok, I admit I've not posted my FAQ pointers for ages. Slap my wrists. I'll try to do better in future. > Until I can think of a better, it would be a great memorial to Catharine, I > feel that she would approve. It would also be an acknowledgement and our [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > think it's desirable to put a caveat please don't be influenced by me. Just > don't do nothing ... Catharine deserves better than that. My first reaction was to want to grab her web page and pile everything I knew onto it as an obituary, but realised that I would be making it a shrine to her, it would not exactly be in good taste, and that anyway each of us only knew one facet of a complex person. I will consult with Jennifer when she is back in Texas and see what she wants to do with it. She is best placed to say what Catharine would have wanted. Tim > > Newcomers to the group, who didn't know Catharine, would possible not see > it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Ok, I admit I've not posted my FAQ pointers for ages. Slap my wrists. I'll > try to do better in future. I wasn't criticising you, just pointing out our fallible memories. > > Until I can think of a better, it would be a great memorial to Catharine, <snip> > My first reaction was to want to grab her web page and pile everything I > knew onto it as an obituary, but realised that I would be making it a shrine > to her, I hadn't thought of it like that. Some might like it. > it would not exactly be in good taste, That's subjective. > and that anyway each of us > only knew one facet of a complex person. That's true too but some might like to know more ... > I will consult with Jennifer when she is back in Texas and see what she > wants to do with it. She is best placed to say what Catharine would have > wanted. That's true too. But in the meantime, do we mail Jennifer individually? The consensus seems to be that people would appreciate sharing some of Jennifer's experience. We're preparing to go to a beekeeping convention on Friday, if I don't reply to anything it's not because I'm deliberately ignoring you. Mary > > I will consult with Jennifer when she is back in Texas and see what she > > wants to do with it. She is best placed to say what Catharine would have [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > consensus seems to be that people would appreciate sharing some of > Jennifer's experience. I just talked to Jennifer and her preliminary write-up and obituary notice will be on the website in about half an hour. She will no doubt want to tidy them up and/or add to them later. Tim Hi Tim, Jennifer said that she'd written how Catherine died, & was willing to share this. I need to know this, because I might be dying from the cancer alone, & I'll need to prepare & to protect myself from my birth-family (from their abuse, extreme cruelty & meanness), for as long as possible. I need to know exactly, what the last stages & the dying will be like. Is there any way you can put this information, on your website? Susan, Su_Texas my opinions PS Don't take this request wrongly. I intend to fight very hard, to live as long as possible, ... despite the many betrayals & the harm now done to me by Organized Medicine & their bogus/bad "care", ... their lies, cons & swindles, their cold-bloodedly murdering us for $$$ & power. I feel sure there's a special hell (justice without mercy), for those oncologists who push the cr*p-care, & who knowingly cause so much pain, suffering & loss, misery. This experience (cancer "care" & its aftermath) has been a friggin nightmare for me, which keeps getting worse & worse. And so far, there's been absolutely no way to get any help or justice through the legal system, for the harm done. There's no help of any kind here in East Texas, & we're getting super-screwed. Dubya Bush has ushered in the age of the New Slavery & Poverty. Despite all this, I remember to have hope, & to keep trying for something good. I also remind myself, that I'm one of the lucky ones, that I have excellent insurance that's good anywhere, ... that if there is any legitimate medical care left, & if I can work hard & long enough to find it, ... I can get it. The main problem is finding it, ... & the amount of research, effort & years that can now take, ... in the current very-failed medical system. >Hi Tim, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Susan, Su_Texas my opinions *plonk* Signaturewe see things not as they are, but as we are. -- Anais Nin From: wizard@no_spam.pointbeing.com (allan grossman) On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 23:22:14 -0500, su-texas@webtv.net wrote: Hi Tim, Jennifer said that she'd written how Catherine died, & was willing to share this. I need to know this, because I might be dying from the cancer alone, & I'll need to prepare & to protect myself from my birth-family (from their abuse, extreme cruelty & meanness), for as long as possible. I need to know exactly, what the last stages & the dying will be like. Is there any way you can put this information, on your website? Susan, Su_Texas my opinions --------- allan wrote: *plonk* Signaturewe see things not as they are, but as we are. -- Anais Nin =============== Yes, Allan, I've noticed how ugly you choose to act, how cold, critical, cruel, & uncaring, & how proud you are of it. These bad behaviors & mindset are very common. Nothing special. What does surprise me, is that you'd display this in a thread about Catharine, where we're grieving, discussing the details of death from cancer, & dreading, fearing it for ourselves. Today I spent time with my cousin Dorothy, who's probably in a coma now (she didn't wake up), & is dying from breast cancer. It hurts to lose her. And another cousin (Barbara) was recently diagnosed with cancer in both breasts. It's sad, shattering emotionally, when it's this close & personal. At the nursing home today, I saw other people I know, who've aged and/or become ill, & are suffering & dying. This was overwhelming. I've been crying a lot lately, missing Mazza, Catherine, & the others, .. wishing I could have helped them in some way, ... feeling very weak & ill, & struggling hard to function & survive, despite the injuries & cancer. At this time, I have nothing left in me that I can draw on, to offer words of sympathy. I'm numb with grief & sorrow, trauma. This is a tough life. Over time, your behaviors have been consistently bad & ugly. And while you may think it's great fun, to verbally kick women who have breast cancer, & try to downgrade & harm them, ... it only shows you to be a low-life & bully, a moral imbecile, nothing at all. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions From:"Chris" <none@example.com>Newsgroups:alt.support.cancer.breastSubject:Re: bad news about Catharine Honeyman, I think (from her sister, Organization:None References:<hSChc.32702$h44.4841383@stones.force9.net> <26335-40874876-216@storefull-3196.bay.webtv.net> <i1eg805l2unttf4dgmn5v0lblv9jls6gt6@4ax.com> User-Agent:MT-NewsWatcher/3.4 (PPC Mac OS X) Message-ID:<none-9B89B9.07271123042004@netnews.comcast.net>Lines:31NNTP-Posting-Host:24.61.34.31X- Complaints-To:abuse@comcast.netX- Trace:attbi_s03 1082719631 24.61.34.31 (Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:27:11 GMT)NNTP- Posting-Date:Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:27:11 GMT Date:Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:27:11 GMT In article <i1eg805l2unttf4dgmn5v0lblv9jls6gt6@4ax.com>, allan grossman <wizard@no_spam.pointbeing.com> wrote: > >Hi Tim, > > > >Jennifer said that she'd written how Catherine > >died, & was willing to share this. I need to > >know this, because I might be dying from the > >cancer alone, & I'll need to prepare & to > >protect myself from my birth-family (from > >their abuse, extreme cruelty & meanness), for > >as long as possible. I need to know exactly, > >what the last stages & the dying will be like. > >Is there any way you can put this information, > >on your website? > >Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > > *plonk* Hi Allan, I know you are upset, but if Susan wants to make Catherine's death all about Susan, rather than Catherine, it is something she is allowed to do in cyberspace. I hope that at some point Susan works through some issues long enough to be respectful to Catharine. Catherine offered all of us a lot, and I am sure that Su_texas would agree with that and would want that reflected in this thread. Hang in there, Chris =================== Hi Chris, Your determinedly-dumb act, doesn't change the facts. It's Not a sign of your caring for or grieving about Catherine's death from cancer, or of being respectful to Catherine. It's about your using her for selfish reasons, ... your wanting to act ugly & uncaring of others in public (esp. of those who've died from & are dying from cancer), ... while proclaiming that your intentions good. It's about your need to be openly & vulgarly disrespectful. It's also about your need to support bullies (such as allan grossman) & those doing harm, & to act the hypocrite about it. I'm angry, outraged & disgusted, that so many people who are suffering so horribly & unnecessarily, & are dying from cancer, ... that they're being preyed on, victimized, robbed, repeatedly lie to, harmed & betrayed by the failed medical system, ... that there's been nothing (nothing!) I can do so far to change this, ... that Catherine & others have now died this way, ... that my cousin is suffering so badly & now dying this way, ... & that I'll probably be cold-bloodedly & deliberately murdered this way too. It's a horrible way to die, to suffer to death. And unfair. So many people here have cancer now, & are suffering to death horribly from it. Texas & Louisiana seem to have become Cancer Central, Death Valley. At times, this becomes overwhelming, & all I can do about it is to scream out loud & cry, & to pray for help & justice. No matter how determinedly-dumb, cold, cruel, & uncaring you choose to act, it doesn't change the facts or reality, ... the pain & suffering from cancer, & from the lack of quality, legitimate medical care. However, it does make you a knowing & willing part of the harm being done, for which you are responsible & accountable. And a bully & jerk, a common troll & trouble-maker, nothing. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions Susan, BACK OFF! I have Stage IV metastatic breast cancer diagnosed at age 34. I have found both Allen and Catherine to be very very helpful over the years in teaching me how to deal with this. I wish you would be respectful of that, and of them. If you can't do this, then just stop typing. You aren't the only one going through this, and I doubt you are going through as much as some of us. Chris > From:"Chris" > [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > > Susan, Su_Texas my opinions From: none@example.com (Chris) Susan, BACK OFF! I have Stage IV metastatic breast cancer diagnosed at age 34. I have found both Allen and Catherine to be very very helpful over the years in teaching me how to deal with this. I wish you would be respectful of that, and of them. If you can't do this, then just stop typing. You aren't the only one going through this, and I doubt you are going through as much as some of us. Chris ======================= Hi Chris, If you want to join allan in acting b*tt-ugly awful & ugly, if that's what you enjoy & want, then do. This shows your mindset, character & basic nature. From your post, I do now understand that your focus is very narrow, cold & selfish, ... that you're basically a bully & gang-bang-type player & enforcer, a blindly-loyal follower, a "mirror person". However, after your choice to act so ugly up-front, don't then ask me to hear or care about you or your cancer. And don't use your cancer as an excuse, to cover-up or justify your verbal attack on me. I'm suffering & dying from it too. I'd rather care about & be supportive of those people who are kind & caring, who try to have good character, who try to be helpful to others, who have an outward focus. And don't threaten me or give me orders. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions PS And as for your statement: "I doubt you are going through as much as some of us.", ... all that I can say, is that you appear to be one cold & uncaring, dumb-a*s & self-centered little b*tch. Many people with cancer suffer very badly, Not just you. How dare you judge & put-down, the level & degree of suffering of others, including myself! -------------- I cannot understand either allan's or your need, to hit me with verbal attacks & put-downs at this time. But then again, abuse & cruelty rarely make any sense. allan grossman has always acted the morally-ignorant, arrogant & abusive jerk towards me, ... esp. when I was trying so hard to find & then get through breast surgery, & take the chemo & rad treatments for third-stage cancer. And he has kept acting badly, even in the post about Catherine's death, which shows his level of disrespect for her & me, & his need for attention. allan's behaviors towards me, have been & are despicable, disgusting. He deserves no respect from me. --------------- I have been respectful of Catherine, & am grieving her loss, as well as the loss of so many others, esp. those I've known in person, such as Billy S. & .... I wish I could have done something (anything!) to help Catherine & others. If only I'd studied & gone into the medical field, if only I'd ..., if only ... su, I truly think you are out of order. I have no need to read what you write and your apparently unfounded vicious attacks on others. I can have compassion for your fears and anger, but I cannot say they are justified. I shall block all further messages from anyone in this thread, since I don't really appreciate bad behaviors from anyone, although all of us, even you, are subject to exhibiting them from time to time. May you somehow find peace. Gene > From: none@example.com (Chris) > [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > If only I'd studied & gone into the medical field, if only I'd ..., if > only ... > At times, this becomes overwhelming, & all I can do about it is to > scream out loud & cry, & to pray for help & justice. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > done, for which you are responsible & accountable. And a bully & jerk, > a common troll & trouble-maker, nothing. Susan, I understand how you feel about this, but please, this thread is not the place for flames. A couple of posters may have been unsympathetic, perhaps even critical, but I think your reaction is excessive, and in this case out of order. Tim Jackson quote: Susan, I understand how you feel about this, but please, this thread is not the place for flames. A couple of posters may have been unsympathetic, perhaps even critical, but I think your reaction is excessive, and in this case out of order. Tim Jackson ========== Hi Tim, The thread I'm posting to, is entitled Bad Behaviors, & it does seem the right place to discuss those posters, who are acting so badly & out of line right now. If someone is choosing to post ugly statements to another thread, then correct them for it. When I'm in physical & emotional pain, exhausted & grieving losses (such as Catherine's death, my cousin's dying, etc.), ... it's a very bad time for the dim-wit & dip-sh*t gang who post here (those few who overly-support & encourage each other, in acting ugly & bullying), to start verbally attacking me. I do Not believe my reaction to be excessive or out of order. And I'm surprised that you would think or say so. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions >I do Not believe my reaction to be excessive or out of order. And I'm >surprised that you would think or say so. Is everything about you? To try to parlay Catherine's death into some sort of sympathy play for yourself - unbelievable. From: gulffritallary@aol.com (Gulffritallary) "I do Not believe my reaction to be excessive or out of order. And I'm surprised that you would think or say so." Is everything about you? To try to parlay Catherine's death into some sort of sympathy play for yourself - unbelievable. ============ Hi Gulffritallary, If you stop & think about it, then you will see that was not my intention. I'm in shock that someone as strong as Catherine, could not beat the cancer, could not stay alive. This shows how powerful & deadly the disease is. It reinforces very strongly, that we Are going to die from it, & the importance of preparing for that, as much as possible, ... such as laying in a supply of water & food, necessities. It's also very important to know & recognize the symptoms, of when the end is coming, ... in order to have water & such ready, & not suffer too badly from thirst & hunger. There's also the question of protection from my birth-family. Will I need a hand-gun or what, as I get weaker & less able to defend myself from attacks & harm? And the horrifying thought, that there's no help here in East Texas. None. Almost no one has anything any more, esp. with the failed economy. And the crime & meanness seem rampant, unavoidable. Many people are in worse shape & living in worse conditions, than I. ------------ Somehow, I didn't think the cancer could get Catherine, & that she would be back posting any day. When she died, it shook my confidence that we could fight cancer & win. And I was forced to stop & think about the specifics of the dying part. Then, I gave up on that, & switched to grief, to remembering those who've died, ... to comforting those still here (my cousin), to crying, .. & to trying to get enough chores done, so my dogs & I can survive (barely) until I get legal & financial help. I deeply regret not learning more, not being able to help Catherine & others, not having a medical degree, ... not being able to find where the good cancer care is (no matter how often & hard I've tried!), & share this info with others. We each grieve differently. If you can't or won't understand this, then that's your problem. ---------------- Jennifer posted that she had written the details of Catherine's dying, but it was too painful for me to contact her for that, so I asked Tim to do it. At that time, I was numb with grief, could think of no words of sympathy to offer, & didn't want to make my grief about Catherine public. Instead, I expressed my anger & outrage at the lies we've been told, ... about how great & wonderful the medical system is, about how it can help & cure us, when it doesn't, ... & about how we're lied to, harmed & robbed, betrayed, then left to suffer to death. The medical system fails us, & it failed Catherine too. So far, I've not been able (emotionally) to open & read that information at Tim's site. -------------- I want to give enough information, so that people will consider options for cancer care, other than just the standard ones, ... or consider a mix of standard & alternative treatments, ... so they'll have a better chance of surviving, & so they'll also have some good health & quality of life left. And to say how important it is, to NOT trust the doctors. To question everything they say. To make your own choices, based on reading & research. And to change these choices, as need be. So far, there seems to be no good or right approach, to treating breast cancer. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > Hi Tim, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > If someone is choosing to post ugly statements to another thread, then > correct them for it. Changing the name of a thread does not make it a different thread, although some browsers may see it as such (eg Google, maybe WebTV too I don't know, but this tends to be a weakness of web-based browsers). It remains linked through the header references back to its Original Post. PC users using Outlook Express, Netscape Messenger, and most other Usenet browsers see it as one thread with changing names, and the Original Post (with its original name) highlights every time a new message is added. So for most of us, the thread you are posting to is entitled "bad news about Catharine Honeyman, I think (from her sister, Jennifer)" Tim Changing the name of a thread does not make it a different thread, although some browsers may see it as such (eg Google, maybe WebTV too I don't know, but this tends to be a weakness of web-based browsers). It remains linked through the header references back to its Original Post. PC users using Outlook Express, Netscape Messenger, and most other Usenet browsers see it as one thread with changing names, and the Original Post (with its original name) highlights every time a new message is added. So for most of us, the thread you are posting to is entitled "bad news about Catharine Honeyman, I think (from her sister, Jennifer)" Tim --------------------------- Hi Tim, I don't understand. I don't know computers, & barely know how to use webtv. In Google Archives & on WebTV, the threads appear separately. ??? Susan, Su_Texas my opinions Hi Sue, I think emotions are running high with all, Catharine was an amazing person. Sometimes I think we all displace our anger - the target of our anger should be the BREAST CANCER. For the majority of the people here is has effected each other of us in a horrible life changing manor. I think my anger gets worse when it robs a young vibrant woman of 1/2 of her life. Catharine never had the opportunity to have children, never found the love of her life, never was able to travel to all the places she would have loved. Despite her illness she was taking care of her elderly demented mother - to me that puts her near being a saint and she never complained about it. She was willing to share with us so much. As far as changing thread titles, I think you can't once it is started. I think we all fear dying from this awful CANCER, but let's try and keep the 2 subjects separate. In honor of Catharine , all of us should try to be respectful of one another - when discussing Catharine. Aloha - Alex alex wrote: As far as changing thread titles, I think you can't once it is started. ================ Hi Alex, At the Google Archives & on WebTV newsgroups, the threads are separate. What I didn't realize (until Tim explained), was that some computer programs don't separate newsgroup threads, once their titles change. Hmm. I think that's what he said. ??? I deeply regret that the Bad Behaviors thread, got mixed in with Catherine's. Somehow, I still can't process that she's gone. She was so tough, strong, determined to make it, & she kept overcoming everything & returning. So far, there's just this blank, dark & empty place in me, this numbness, an unwillingness to face, accept or believe it. In the grieving process, this is called Denial, but naming it doesn't make things any easier. I just can't believe it. At times, I'll sometimes sit back, relax, & mentally call the roll of those who've passed on. I'll remember them, the things they said & did, esp. the fun & funny ones, & laugh, ... I'll hold their memory close for a while, & cherish it, ... then let them go again, & get on with my daily life, ... get back to the living. (((alex))) Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > At the Google Archives & on WebTV newsgroups, the threads are separate. > > What I didn't realize (until Tim explained), was that some computer > programs don't separate newsgroup threads, once their titles change. > > Hmm. I think that's what he said. ??? Yes Susan, that is what I said. Whenever you post an article, it is assigned a unique message number by your server. When you post a reply, your browser includes (in the message headers) the message number you are replying to. A 'thread' is by definition a series of messages connected by these reference. Most Usenet (news) browsers have an option to display posts organised as threads, but some simpler ones, especially those used for Web access to Usenet, just sort them by subject and date then hopefully reconstruct them into some semblance of the original threads. This means that different threads which coincidentally have the same subject get concatentated even if they are separated by years, and changing the subject breaks up parts of the same thread. Example: Your past post included these two headers Message-ID: <6292-4089BB7B-211@storefull-3193.bay.webtv.net> References: <zOSdnSzerqYyNRTdRVn-vA@comcast.com> The first is the ID of your message assigned by WebTV, the second is the ID of Alex's message to which you were replying. Her message headers were: Message-ID: <zOSdnSzerqYyNRTdRVn-vA@comcast.com> References: <46cic.36025$Y%6.4717994@wards.force9.net>... ...<9174-408957C4-67@storefull-3191.bay.webtv.net> Which point to your previous mesage, and also mine before that (for backup). The important point is that the ID gobbledegook here is the same as the Reference in your reply. > I deeply regret that the Bad Behaviors thread, got mixed in with > Catherine's. Never mind. I understand that you couldn't see it the way other people did, and I appreciate your response. Thank you. > Somehow, I still can't process that she's gone. She was so tough, > strong, determined to make it, & she kept overcoming everything & [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > I just can't believe it. Yes, I keep wanting to write and tell her what is happening. When she went out of reach of the Internet there was always snail mail, and I feel that now she has gone out of reach of that, there ought to be some other way of contacting her. I can understand why some people go to mediums, but I know I wouldn't get a sensible reply there. Tim Susan, That was very nice. I think that I, and probably everyone else, are logging in to the site this week looking for some support. It has been a tough week. That felt very supportive. Thank you, Chris > alex wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Susan, Su_Texas my opinions It is hard for me to imagine Catharine gone too. She has been offline for awhile but I was hoping it was due to lack of computer access. I am glad she returned to her beloved Hawaii. SignatureALEXANDRA KOFFMAN > alex wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > >Hi Tim, > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > *plonk* Hi Allan, I know you are upset, but if Susan wants to make Catherine's death all about Susan, rather than Catherine, it is something she is allowed to do in cyberspace. I hope that at some point Susan works through some issues long enough to be respectful to Catharine. Catherine offered all of us a lot, and I am sure that Su_texas would agree with that and would want that reflected in this thread. Hang in there, Chris > Hi Tim, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Susan, Su_Texas my opinions Susan As I am sure you are aware by now, Jennifer's article is posted on Catharine's bio page at www.cancersupporters.com (spelled right this time). I can also address this subject myself, having nursed my own dying wife. Some of my experiences are written up on my own website, eg www.tim-jackson.co.uk/bcancer/history.html. If you want to talk to me about it, please feel free to email me. Of course no two are the same but I can reassure you that cancer endings are usually peaceful. Of course we all die alone, but our passing is always someone else's problem. Knowing the fine final details in advance, if it is possible, is probably fairly pointless, as it is beyond your control anyway. To address your concerns about vulnerability, the final stages of cancer probably involve a few weeks or months of incapacity where nursing care is required. Tim Jackson >Catharine died last night (Mon, 4/20), at around 10pm Hawaii time. Travel well, dear friend. Thank you, Jennifer. My thoughts are with you and yours today. allan Signaturewe see things not as they are, but as we are. -- Anais Nin I'm so sorry for your loss Jennifer - and to everyone here who enjoyed Catharine so much. She gave much to this group, as I'm sure she did to everyone she knew in "real life". I like the idea of attaching the story to the bio, but if that doesn't happen I'd appreciate an email copy. The return trip to Oahu sounds like a fitting tribute. Sue - DivaofDVC aka WDW1972 DVC '97 OKW, Beach Club, Vero Beach, & Hilton Head Deborah's comments: "I am so sorry we have lost such a beautiful soul. I am glad, however, that she didn't have much pain at the end because I know she suffered quite a bit earlier. We were lucky to have her pass through our lives." >It's me again. I'm still in Hawaii--it turns out that my aunt and >uncle have a cable modem. [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > >Now I miss her. Jennifer, my heartfelt condolences. Believe me I know what you are going through. The bit of information you included is a story that's all too familiar and recent for me. I would be honored to read what you've written. Please e-mail it to me as soon as possible. Tim has given his usual good advice, including ignoring what everyone else tells you. I'm going to violate that and give one small piece of advice. Don't make any big decisions for a while. My mother-in-law suggested a year was a good time frame. I don't know whether that will work for you (or for me) but it sounds like a reasonable place to start. Do keep paying the bills, eating, get as much sleep as you can (I know why Tom Hanks couldn't sleep in "Sleepless in Seattle") and try to exercise regularly. People will offer to help. Accept those offers with open arms. My best wishes to you. Love & Light Tony > It's me again. I'm still in Hawaii--it turns out that my aunt and > uncle have a cable modem. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > > Jennifer {{{{{Jennifer}}}}} I am so glad that you were able to be with your beloved sister. Catherine C. Jennifer, I use to check this group daily for word of Catherine. She was special. I never corresponded personally with her but I sit here with tears in my eyes. I would appreciate knowing about her last hours. She will be in my payers. Barbara > > It's me again. I'm still in Hawaii--it turns out that my aunt and > > uncle have a cable modem. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Catherine C. > > It's me again. I'm still in Hawaii--it turns out that my aunt and > > uncle have a cable modem. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > Catherine C. It's me again, Jennifer...I've just read about Catharine's last days and hours with you on her bio site...I don't think I've ever been so moved in my entire life...I can never cry but the tears certainly flowed as I read this...I never responded to Catharine directly on this newsgroup...truth be known I was too in awe of this magnificent woman to do so... but I read every single word she ever wrote here and she is truly one of those rare people who came into my life and changed it...thanks *so* much for sharing this precious gift with all of us and as someone has already said, God bless you Annie, for saying it better than I ever could have... {{{{{Jennifer}}}}} {{{{{Catharine}}}} {{{{{All here who live their lives with such grace and courage}}}}} Much love, Catherine C. I am so sorry to hear about dear Catharine, she was a beautiful person inside and out ! I am glad you were able to be with her and hospice helped. ALex Send me an email too if you think of it, your pain will go away with time I promise! I'm so sorry to hear of your loss . . . and ours, if I may be so bold. If an effect on others' lives is a kind of immortality, in that sense Catharine lives on. If you are willing, I think Tim's suggestion to link your narrative to her bio is a good one. Many of us would like to know how her journey from this life began, as we will all one day make a similar trip. Also, you wrote: > So, dear newsgroup people who have unfortunately walked down this > path, what next? Am I going insane if I still walk around the house > and talk to her? When will I ever sleep again? Will my muscles ever > relax? Rest assured you are fully sane! Having lost a dear husband to cancer when he was 45, lost my mother to breast cancer, lost my father just a month ago to an unexpected heart attack while I was with him, I can say that what you're doing and feeling seems completely rational and normal. If found that if I went through the daily motions of life by sheer will as soon as I could manage it, eventually the normal feelings began to flow back in past the shock & numbness. For someone this close, the grieving never totally disappears, but over time, it does shrink a bit in the rear-view mirror. If you'll allow me one tiny bit of practical advice: Go get a massage, maybe a couple of them a week or so apart. It'll help the back thing. Take care of you, and thank you for letting us know about Catharine. Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email > It's me again. I'm still in Hawaii--it turns out that my aunt and > uncle have a cable modem. > > Catharine died last night (Mon, 4/20), at around 10pm Hawaii time. Jennifer, I am so terribly sorry. Catharine was such a special, warm and loving woman. I am the woman in the St. Louis area who adopted Jack, her cat. She knew she was dying, and she wanted to make sure Jack had a loving home. Yesterday, as I was getting out of the shower, Jack came in and began to cry and be so sad. It's not his typical behavior, even when he's hungry. He's always so happy. But there was just something so sad about him, and I immediately thought of Catharine. I would periodically check this group to see how she was doing, but hadn't in some time. So I found the news about Catharine, even though as I waited for the newgroup to load, I just knew. Jack knew and communicated it to me. I can't explain that. So I've been debating posting and checking the group often since that moment. I do hope my posting won't cause any more grief for you, but I just had to share my thoughts on how wonderful I thought Catharine was, and how it has raised awareness of breast cancer for me, and of the issue of pets and their care when a person becomes disabled, elderly, or ill. My joy in loving Jack has always been so bittersweet. I thought *I* was being a good samaritan when I offered to adopt Jack, but the truth is, my other cat Dmitri and I are the ones who have been blessed by this guy, by loving him, and having the brief chance to know what a wonderful person Catharine was. I always felt that even thought Jack moved over a thousand miles away (thanks to the generosity of cat lovers in the cat health newsgroup, who gathered money for his trip), he has always kept some kind of connection with Catharine, and he always loved her, as she did him. At some point, maybe you'd like to read the whole story and see the many pictures of Jack, so I will post the url to that. Catharine was popular in the cat health newsgroup, and when she posted that she wanted to find a home for Jack, most people in the group immediately tried to help. When I posted that I would take Jack if we could figure out a way to get him here (from Seattle to St Louis), the response was swift and overwhelming. People rushed in to say they wanted to make donations. A woman named Megan called around to find appropriate transport and found a company that would handle the trip in a professional manner, and within two days, the "Jack Fund" was filled. It was so amazing to see total strangers donate so quickly and generously to make sure Catharine's Jack had a home. I know that all of us who got involved, myself, Megan, a woman in Seattle named Beth who fostered Jack, and of course Catharine, were so overwhelmed by such generosity and spirit. Nothing has ever touched my heart more than this did, and I was so touched by how Catharine wanted to make sure Jack was taken care of. I know that it broke her heart to give him up, but she was so relieved that he found a home. And when he got here and met his new brother, the bond was quick and fierce. From the moment they met, they became best friends. Jack is incredibly happy, and he has brought so much to my life, and to the life of Dmitri. They absolutely adore one another. I have always admired Catharine's strength, her humor and her grace. Her concern was that Jack would have a good home, and I'm just so grateful that she died knowing Jack was happy and loved so much. She will always be admired and loved among cat lovers, and I know that Jack will always love her as well. Jennifer, I am so sorry for your loss. Your sister was a wonderful, wonderful woman and will be missed by so many. At some point if you would like to read Jack and Catharine's story, it's at: http://www.ect.org/dj/ With much admiration and heartfelt sadness, Juli Lawrence, Jack and Dmitri > I am the woman in the St. Louis area who adopted Jack, her cat. She > knew she was dying, and she wanted to make sure Jack had a loving home. .......... > At some point if you would like to read Jack and Catharine's story, > it's at: > > http://www.ect.org/dj/ Oh! I didn't know. Thank you Juls. That was very moving. What those guys said about her at the start, and knowing what her personal situation had really been like, made me want to throw things at the screen. But of course Catharine was stronger than that and straightened out their misconceptions diplomatically, and resisted the temptation to scream "Look I'm dying here!". Maybe I should put a link to that story on her bio website (at www.cancersupporters.com) too. Tim Jackson > > I am the woman in the St. Louis area who adopted Jack, her cat. She > > knew she was dying, and she wanted to make sure Jack had a loving home. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > misconceptions diplomatically, and resisted the temptation to scream "Look > I'm dying here!". Yes, that was Catharine. Always full of grace. > Maybe I should put a link to that story on her bio website (at > www.cancersupporters.com) too. I think that would be a marvelous idea. It was always such a wonderful thing to come out of something so hard. And Jack is just incredibly happy. Catharine brought a lot to my life in so many ways, even though I didn't know her well. And I know she taught lessons in compassion to many in the cat group. I'd like to add a link to the page to her bio, if that's okay with you? I can't tell you how much I enjoyed reading that! > Tim Jackson I was so sorry to hear the news about Catharine, although I knew that the silence could not be good. I am struck by the power of this relatively new kind of relationship. Most of us know each other only via email and only in a group setting. After awhile, names and personalities become familiar, and some people, like Catharine stand out in an extraordinary way. Only in the last few years have these sorts of relationships become possible--I don't believe we yet have the right vocabulary or reactions that feel exactly right. We need some new categories, I think. Perhaps Catharine's powerful personality and the relationships she built in this new medium will help us all move forward in finding the right words and categories. Deb > > Maybe I should put a link to that story on her bio website (at > > www.cancersupporters.com) too. > > I think that would be a marvelous idea. Done that > I'd like to add a link to the page to her bio, if that's okay with you? > I can't tell you how much I enjoyed reading that! No problem for me. It's best to link to www.cancersupporters.com/ascb and follow the links from there, that way if we ever need to change servers again (we did once), the link will still work. In principle the indirect link also hides email addresses (on the bio pages) from spambots, although I guess Catharine doesn't really care about spam any more. Tim Judi wrote << I am the woman in the St. Louis area who adopted Jack, her cat. She knew she was dying, and she wanted to make sure Jack had a loving home... So I found the news about Catharine, even though as I waited for the newgroup to load, I just knew. Jack knew and communicated it to me. >> I read this post with an unusual sense of emotion. I wasn't on-line much for the past week, but did think of Catharine, particularly these last few days while away. I vaguely remember a story about her cat but not until you mentioned it. One of the reasons I was away (in addition to a temporary, weird email/newsgroup problem) was that I was visiting one of my daughter's in St. Louis of all places. I recall specifically thinking about her Monday night. I left L.A. on Monday evening, the 20th. Originally I was supposed to arrive in St. Louis around midnight but there was a change in airlines--almost a story like Allan's re. his travel but was fortunate enough to have the good luck of being switched to another airline and flight at the last minute, so I arrived only about 20 minutes after my original schedule timed and got in at about 12:20 a.m. in the wee morning hours of the 21st. This was to be a quick trip--but almost had to take a plane which would have been delayed in Denver and wouldn't have gotten to St. Louis until the next day. I had to be there in the early evening of the 21st to be at my daughter's sr. thesis presentation (which I did make) and had to leave by 10:00 a.m. on the 22nd. I got my ticket (for the first time) through a discount on-line service that my daughter found for me which I had not previously heard of (hotwire) which I don't think I will ever do again. I did purchase travel insurance at the same time but initially it didn't go through. I think that may have allowed me to cancel/change the ticket but didn't have that info until I was already there, late the next day. Just hours after the reservation went through I came to an article online about a conference that was being held in St. Louis, starting the day I got in, on hyperthermia and cancer. It was an international conference for dr's from all over the world. If I didn't have meeting later on in the week I would have just stayed in St. Louis for the rest of the week. However, I did get a chance to check out the conference briefly. My daughter's boyfriend took me over to the hotel where it is being held and was able to pick up some brochures, get some phone #'s, and some possible info to network re. this service. It is a bit uncanny (or is it) that I thought alot about Catharine while there (and before I knew that she had passed away), although am sure those thoughts are not that unusual since becoming aware of the change in her condition. I just hadnt recalled that she had any association to St. Louis... Again, she will be so very missed for all that she has given to others--both support and inspiration--and of course for herself as well.... > It's me again. I'm still in Hawaii--it turns out that my aunt and > uncle have a cable modem. > > Catharine died last night (Mon, 4/20), at around 10pm Hawaii time. I've only just seen this post and, like everyone else, I'm very sorry - for the loss of Catharine. At the same time I'm happy that she won't be suffering any more. <snip> > I am very very very very very glad that I was with her for the end. I > feel sure she wanted me there and I wanted very much to be there, too. We'll all be very glad that you were there. > Now I miss her. Of course you do. So do we. > I will return to Texas tomorrow with her ashes, but I (and other > family members, including our brother and father) will return in a few [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > (I hope) comfortable and comforting to her. I am thinking I'd like to > get involved with hospice when I get back to Texas. Thank you for sharing that - and everything - with us. > So, dear newsgroup people who have unfortunately walked down this > path, what next? I don't know. > Am I going insane if I still walk around the house > and talk to her? No. > When will I ever sleep again? Will my muscles ever > relax? I don't know, but I think you'll learn to be strong. A sister of Catharine Honeyman couldn't be anything else. Everyone has said how much Catharine did for us, how much comfort, help, advice, fun and sheer joy she brought to this groups and it's so true. But I've had another thought - I'd like to think that she drew comfort, laughter and support from us too. > I do so miss her. So do we ... Thank you for telling us about what you've done, Jennifer, I don't know if you'll understand how helpful it's been to know the rest of Catharine's story instead of being left not knowing and always wondering. Hugs, Mary > Jennifer |
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