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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / January 2004

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Young Breast Cancer Survivors Often Suffer Emotional Problems

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Ilena - 19 Jan 2004 21:00 GMT
Note: Found this article very interesting ...

It didn't mention how many women had reconstruction after mastectomy
...

~~~~~~~~~

Young Breast Cancer Survivors Often Suffer Emotional Problems

Awareness Can Help Women, Doctors Cope

Article date: 2003/12/23  
 

Young women who are treated for breast cancer often suffer emotional
disruption that persists for years after their treatment, according to
researchers at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA).

Women younger than 50 may be especially hard-hit by feelings of
vulnerability and a fear of cancer recurrence, the researchers
reported in the Journal of Clinical Oncology (Vol. 21, No. 22:
4184-4193). About one-fourth of breast cancer cases in the United
States occur in women in this age group.

"A lot of oncologists are not necessarily well-equipped to address
these issues," said lead researcher Patricia Ganz, MD, of UCLA's
Jonsson Comprehensive Cancer Center. "Whoever's taking care of these
survivors needs to know about these problems."

Ganz and her colleagues examined 577 women who had been diagnosed with
breast cancer an average of 6 years before the study. Their ages at
diagnosis ranged from 25 to 51. About half the women had been treated
by mastectomy, while the others had lumpectomy followed by radiation
therapy. About three-fourths of the women had received some extra
treatment after their breast cancer surgery, such as tamoxifen,
chemotherapy, or both.

The women answered an extensive 45-page questionnaire about their
physical and emotional functioning, as well as their health.

Women Had Both Physical and Emotional Problems
The women were generally in good health several years after their
diagnosis, although almost all of them were unhappy with their body.
Many had experienced weight gain and about half had problems with
breast sensitivity. Many women also complained of general aching,
joint pains, and muscle stiffness, as well as forgetfulness and
trouble concentrating.

Most of the women were near or past menopause and were having hot
flashes and night sweats. Because of their cancer diagnosis, these
women were not candidates for hormonal replacement therapy to treat
these symptoms.

The youngest women (those who had been between the ages of 25 and 34
at diagnosis) had fewer physical complaints, but more trouble with
emotional function.

That finding isn't particularly surprising, Ganz said. Many of these
young women may be focused on a first job or getting married and
starting a family, and a serious illness can hamper those plans.

"They're at a time in their lives when cancer isn't on their list of
expectations," Ganz noted. Young women who had become menopausal (and
thus unable to have children) as a result of their treatment were the
most likely to be depressed and have a negative attitude toward life.

Older women, who have had more life experiences, may be better
equipped to cope with a cancer diagnosis and the effects of treatment,
said Ganz.

Support Is Important
Women who were in a relationship, those with higher educational
levels, and African-Americans reported fewer problems than other women
in the study. It may be that these women have stronger support
networks or other life experiences that help them cope with the cancer
diagnosis, Ganz said. In an earlier study, Ganz and her group found
that African-American women find more meaning in life after having
breast cancer than white women do.

Young women who are having troubles can take steps to help themselves,
Ganz noted. There are medical remedies for many of the late effects of
cancer treatment, so letting their doctor know about symptoms is
important.

Even knowing they aren't alone in having physical or emotional side
effects can be a help, Ganz said. Many survivors focus so intensely on
just getting through their disease that they don't realize there could
be side effects down the line. Research like this lets these women
know they're not crazy, Ganz said. "What they're experiencing is what
a lot of other women in their age group experience."

Although the findings may seem negative, Ganz said the overall message
for young women is positive. Breast cancer survivors show a great deal
of resiliency.

"Overall, women are doing very well, but we'd always like to do
better," she said.

~~~~~~~~~

www.BreastImplantAwareness.org
bartalo@webtv.net - 19 Jan 2004 23:45 GMT
>Older women, who have had more life
> experiences, may be better equipped to cope
> with a cancer diagnosis and the effects of
> treatment, said Ganz.

Excuse me but I don't agree with this.  As an older woman with a "lot"
of life experiences I sure don't feel equipped to cope with this bc.  I
have gotten through a lot of other illnesses but never had this attitude
because I always was sure if I could survive the pain, I would survive .
With this bc it seems to be a roll of the dice.  I try so hard to be
courageous and think positive but when I find out another person did not
survive bc, it scares me.  

Sorry folks for being so morbid but this "is" a support group so you are
not supposed to get mad at me.   I'll try to be cheerful tomorrow.  If
not, I can always tick Alan off by telling him "Tim" won the contest!<g

Bea
WDW1972 - 20 Jan 2004 06:29 GMT
>Excuse me but I don't agree with this.  As an older woman with a "lot"
>of life experiences I sure don't feel equipped to cope with this bc.  I
>have gotten through a lot of other illnesses but never had this attitude
>because I always was sure if I could survive the pain, I would survive .

I also didn't agree with it, but am coming from the other direction.  As a
"younger" woman who had breast cancer at age 43 I see it as part of my past.
It's not something I think about and now that it's been 2 years I'm not even
nervous/anxious about my mammogram scheduled in 2-3 weeks.  The trouble with
these surveys is even if the majority of the people experience something, it's
possible up to 49% of the people did not.  You also don't know what
issues/emotional problems these woman had to start with.  

If anything, a younger woman should be in better shape - stronger, healthier,
etc - in general.  I can see a 25 yr old being traumatized by a mastectomy, but
with reconstructive surgery available today it's a whole different world than
the mastectomies of 30 years ago.  In any event, it's something you deal with
and move on from, and I don't think a younger person necessarily can't cope as
well as an older person.

Sue - DivaofDVC   aka WDW1972
DVC '97   OKW, Beach Club, Vero Beach, & Hilton Head
Kaye301 - 20 Jan 2004 09:35 GMT
wdw wrote: <<  I see it as part of my past.
It's not something I think about and now that it's been 2 years I'm not even
nervous/anxious about my mammogram scheduled in 2-3 weeks.   >>

mmm, but you posted to this group, so you must have some related thoughts.
I am 53 and b.c. has consumed me in a way I tried to avoid...
WDW1972 - 20 Jan 2004 13:30 GMT
>mmm, but you posted to this group, so you must have some related thoughts.
>I am 53 and b.c. has consumed me in a way I tried to avoid.

I still have this board bookmarked, but only read a few topics every now & then
- mostly to help calm people when they post a message freaking out about their
cancer diagnosis.  I don't worry that my cancer will come back - it might, and
if it does I'll deal with it like last time, but the odds are more likely it's
never coming back.I'm not a "doom & gloom" person, or a worrywart....my mother
got all the worry genes <g>.

Sue - DivaofDVC   aka WDW1972
DVC '97   OKW, Beach Club, Vero Beach, & Hilton Head
Kaye301 - 20 Jan 2004 14:09 GMT
wdw wrote:<< I don't worry that my cancer will come back - it might, and
if it does I'll deal with it like last time, but the odds are more likely it's
never coming back. >>

You are so very lucky that the odds are in your favor!
Kaye301 - 20 Jan 2004 14:40 GMT
Kaye wrote << You are so very lucky that the odds are in your favor!

And before my dx, I did most all the 'right' stuff--didn't want to have
anything to do with breast cancer--and guess where it left me--not very well
informed or prepared at the start of what might not have been a situation where
the odds were not in my favor...
Alexandra Koffman - 21 Jan 2004 02:46 GMT
Odds were you and I wouldn't get breast cancer the first time yet we did. I
don't believe in odds anymore <g> Alex
> wdw wrote:<< I don't worry that my cancer will come back - it might, and
> if it does I'll deal with it like last time, but the odds are more likely it's
> never coming back. >>
>
> You are so very lucky that the odds are in your favor!
bartalo@webtv.net - 21 Jan 2004 03:28 GMT
>Odds were you and I wouldn't get breast
> cancer the first time yet we did. I don't believe
> in odds anymore <g> Alex

I don't know what "odds" you all are talking about but the odds sure
were that I would never get it!  My mom had 8 kids and I was the last on
the tree and bc was unheard of in my family.  I also did all the right
things about getting the mammos etc. and being checked.  But.....when
the odds change out of your favor...........    I think this is why I
have such a hard time accepting my bc because it was never anything I
ever expected would happen to me.  Oh well... life must go on!

Does anyone know when my hair is going to grow back? ( I know, Tim, I'll
go read your FAQs now that your url is working.<g)

Bea
A. P. Thorsen - 21 Jan 2004 21:53 GMT
> Does anyone know when my hair is going to grow back? ( I know, Tim, I'll
> go read your FAQs now that your url is working.<g)

I finished chemo in . . . April (2001), I think.  I had enough hair that
I felt I could stop wearing a wig to work in October that same year.  It
was very, very short, and very, very curly.  Maybe an inch or inch and a
half by that time?

This varies a lot by person, and should have some relationship to how
fast your hair grew before chemo.  There's a study out there somewhere
saying that Rogaine helps hair regrow faster denser after chemo.  See:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9
6272971&dopt=Abstract


(If that wraps to multiple lines, you'll need to use cut & paste to get
it into your browser.)

Ann T.
Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email
Alexandra Koffman - 21 Jan 2004 03:27 GMT
Sue,
That is great for you! I am assuming you didn't have invasive cancer....you
didn't have to have mastectomy or reconstructive surgery...
You didn't have to have chemo or sit through the lecture that your cancer is
never cured and that is could  comeback  at anytime and when it did it would
be the thing that killed me. Perhaps if I had DCIS....I too could have your
attitude....All I know have chemo was the pits. Send me to surgery any day
of the week rather than chemo.
Alex

"> I still have this board bookmarked, but only read a few topics every now
& then
> - mostly to help calm people when they post a message freaking out about their
> cancer diagnosis.  I don't worry that my cancer will come back - it might, and
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Sue - DivaofDVC   aka WDW1972
> DVC '97   OKW, Beach Club, Vero Beach, & Hilton Head
WDW1972 - 21 Jan 2004 17:42 GMT
>Sue,
>That is great for you! I am assuming you didn't have invasive cancer....you
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>be the thing that killed me. Perhaps if I had DCIS....I too could have your
>attitude....

Alex, You're right - my cancer wasn't invasive and treatment consisted of a
lumpectomy, 33 rounds of radiation, and now 5 years of tamoxifen.  It was a
piece of cake compared to what some others have to go thru, and I consider
myself very lucky to have caught it so early - before it could be felt but when
it could barely be seen on the mammogram film.  I had no risk factors at all -
no family history, I'm not overweight, I'm 100% healthy in every way (well,
except for this breast cancer incident), and everytime some study links
something to increased risk of breast cancer I am able to say - I didn't
have/do that.  I guess the bottom line is, perhaps I shouldn't have ever had
cancer, but I did and I've moved on.  Sure, it might come back again some day
but except for taking tamoxifen I really feel like I'm living in the present.
I've made it a point to enjoy life and do what I want, so if by chance my life
gets cut short at some point I won't have any regrets over things I should have
done. I do believe in my heart I have nothing to worry about, but
intellectually I realize none of us *know* anything for sure.  But, I figure
since I don't know that I'm definitely going to get cancer again, I might as
well assume & live my life as if I won't.  I will always keep current with my
screenings and hope to catch it very early again if it does come back.  One
disadvantage to having it young is the odds are greater you'll see it come back
because you're not as likely to have died from something else by then (like old
age)!  But those are just my thoughts about my own situation, and I don't want
to offend or belittle anyone else's situation.  We're all unique, and do the
best we can regarding our own specific circumstances.

Sue - DivaofDVC   aka WDW1972
DVC '97   OKW, Beach Club, Vero Beach, & Hilton Head
Kaye301 - 21 Jan 2004 18:41 GMT
wdw wrote: << I consider
myself very lucky to have caught it so early - before it could be felt but when
it could barely be seen on the mammogram film.   >>

That is very fortunate.  I caugjt mine right when it could be felt within days
after last normal mammogram but when I showed it to my dr. he reminded me that
the mammo had been normal.

<< and everytime some study links
something to increased risk of breast cancer I am able to say - I didn't
have/do that.   >>

Me, too although I did have a family hx.

<< I shouldn't have ever had
cancer, but I did and I've moved on. >>

Well, I can say that I shouldn't have it reach the point where it did since I
did all the 'right' recommended stuff--regular mammos and self-checks because
of my fam hx and then forgot about it--figuring if anything was wrong they'd
(medical end) would know what to do so it would be caught early.  WRONG!  I
would love to go back and forget about this but I am impacted by it daily--from
the daily wrapping of my arm (fortunately my husband is more than willing to do
that--and insists) from the lymphedema.  I can handle the prostheses without an
afterthought--they fit into a regular bra.  I would love to let loose and have
the experts handle it.  Unfortunately it is too involved and there is too much
for them to even keep it all straight.  Like yesterday, when the spine dr.
compared by 4/03 MRI with the 10/01 MRI.  I just happened to bring in the
copies of my films for the appt.  I just realized when I began seeing him--he
never got the copy of the 10/01 MRI to compare...He told me he saw marrow
changes between those two....hmmm and is now first concerned about that.  When
I first saw him he only had m 4/03 MRI.  I copy--since I have gotten copies of
most scans--he saw it for the first time.
Da*&, I sure would love to forget about this and leave it up to the *experts*
to get it 'righ.'  I probably would if I weren't at high risk.  Laughing--'high
risk'--I had mentioned that to the spine dr. at past appts--and it glossed over
him.  He wasn't at all concerned.  And now--for the first time he is saying I
am 'high risk'  HUH?  What changed?

<<  I really feel like I'm living in the present.  >>

I do too but unfortunately my circumstances has forced me to relegate this to
be 'my present' in order to survive!

<< I've made it a point to enjoy life  >>

I/we very much try to do the same.  I bring my fears and concerns --here--for
support and information and try not to let the rest impact me...

<< I do believe in my heart I have nothing to worry about, >>  I so very wish
that I could be there ...and that has led me on a course of doing whatever
little I can to perhaps gain some control and hopefully stay on top of all this
--and maybe, just maybe even turn the inevitable around...

<<but intellectually I realize none of us *know* anything for sure.   >>
Alex - 20 Jan 2004 14:55 GMT
I was diagnosed at age 40 ...the same year I was pregnant (I lost the
pregnancy). After my diagnose I went to F2F support groups, most of
the women were in there late 50's to 60's...retired, children grown,
menopausal, and had grandchildren. There issues were very different
than mine, How to cope with fertility lose, how to deal with hot
flashes, how to deal with school age children, how to deal with your
job. I had just lost both my parents prior to this but for women in
their forties they have the added stress of dealing with their aging
parents.
On top of this you are told when diagnosed, younger women have more
aggressive breast cancer and it usually doesn't respond to any
hormonal treatments. You are told that this will be a LIFELONG issue
and learn to cope with it.
I am not saying it is easy to be diagnosed at any age but I think I
could have coped with this a bit better at age 60 when I didn't have
to deal with so many issues like kids, work, and the aggresiveness of
the disease. Also at 60 I would find many more women similar in age
for support and not felt like no one understands and I would not have
the issue of being but into a wierd perimenopausal hell state. Also
when you are age 60 - your life has 20 years left whereas at age 40
you have 40 more years to go...it seems like you are being robbed of
time.

ALex
Kaye301 - 20 Jan 2004 15:05 GMT
Alex wrote: << I was diagnosed at age 40 ...the same year I was pregnant (I
lost the
pregnancy). After my diagnose I went to F2F support groups, most of
the women were in there late 50's to 60's...retired, children grown,
menopausal, and had grandchildren. There issues were very different
than mine... it seems like you are being robbed of
time. >>

I can only imagine the fear, frustration, and difficulty you experienced at
that very difficult time.  I do understand although I was 10 years older.  All
I could remember was my past family hx which immediately flashed before my
mind.
I think hearing a diagnosis of cancer is difficult at any age.  I went to one
support group meeting.  There were 2 of us who were new.  I was the 3rd person
to speak and gave a brief synopsis as did the other two ladies who had been in
the group for awhile.  When it came to the next person who was new--several
after me--the rest  of the group time was focused on her.  She told her story
and broke down in the process.  I had a hard time listening to her story--as
well as that of most of the others.  First, the other new gal was dx'd at stage
"0" and her prognosis was 99% chance of cure.  Then hearling all the others was
what made me realize the precarious situation I was in--and was what made me
for the first time experience any depressed thoughts.  I was quite naive about
it all then, too, and this was about 6 mos. after my diagnosis.  That was when
the reality of what I was dealing with hit me.
bartalo@webtv.net - 20 Jan 2004 17:06 GMT
>Also when you are age 60 - your life has 20
> years left whereas at age 40 you have 40
more years to go...it seems like you are being
> robbed of time.

Another point concerning those at age 60.  Yes, maybe they have gotten
past taking care of aging parents, and gotten their children through
their education and spent their lives doing for others and focused on
being good wives and mothers.  Maybe they were excited about those 20
years they "might" have left and made plans to spend some of that time
selfishly doing things they personally enjoyed.  They may not have
expected their last years would be spent fighting this damnable disease
and just going from doctor to doctor with a big "?" mark on whether they
would have 5 years left to "enjoy" much less those 20 you seem to think
they are due.   And for many of us the stress of the bc with the Chemo,
radiation, surgery etc. etc. keeps us too fatigued to enjoy what years
we may have left.    

In a nutshell...bc is the worse part of the crap shot no matter at which
age one gets it and we are left with no choice but to cope with it as
best we can.

Bea    
Kaye301 - 20 Jan 2004 17:25 GMT
Bea wrote: << In a nutshell...bc is the worse part of the crap shot no matter
at which
age one gets it and we are left with no choice but to cope with it as
best we can >>

It's no fun at any age, and each age range or stage has different challenges.
However, I can certainly see how a younger person would feel cheated more so or
in a different way than someone who has reached their senior years...
bartalo@webtv.net - 20 Jan 2004 23:03 GMT
>It's no fun at any age, and each age range or
> stage has different challenges. However, I
> can certainly see how a younger person
> would feel cheated more so or in a different
> way than someone who has reached their
> senior years...

>Kaye

And it seems one of my oncologists feels the same way.  I will never
forget when he told me how lucky I was to have gotten the bc at my age.
He said "I" had an 80% cure rate but he could not give those same odds
if he were giving it to a younger woman.  

What confuses me (and I guess it's because I am so dumb when it comes to
bc info) is why wouldn't the cure rate for the same type cancer be the
same no matter what age you get it?  I thought the "cure" pertains to
the pathology of your type cancer etc. and not your age.    He seemed to
think my bc would be much more aggressive in someone younger.
Well.....finally a great reason to be a senior!<g

Bea
Tim Jackson - 20 Jan 2004 23:27 GMT
> What confuses me (and I guess it's because I am so dumb when it comes to
> bc info) is why wouldn't the cure rate for the same type cancer be the
> same no matter what age you get it?  I thought the "cure" pertains to
> the pathology of your type cancer etc. and not your age.    He seemed to
> think my bc would be much more aggressive in someone younger.
> Well.....finally a great reason to be a senior!<g

For a given type of cancer the probability of a cure depends on the rate of
growth.  The slower it grows the more likely that chemo- or hormone-therapy,
or your immune system, will kill it off.  In older people everything tends
to grow slower, and that includes their cancers.

Tim Jackson
Alexandra Koffman - 21 Jan 2004 02:51 GMT
<>
> And it seems one of my oncologists feels the same way.  I will never
> forget when he told me how lucky I was to have gotten the bc at my age.
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
>
> Bea

The way it was explained to me the longer you live the more chance of breast
cancer recurring ( isn't that a cheery thought).
At age 40...I presented with the most aggresive options since the chance of
it returning in a normal lifespan are high. It I was age 60 or 70 the
oncologist would have suggested a different plan since at age 80 or 90
chances are you are going to die of something other than breast cancer.
At the cure relates to the stage of breast cancer - stage 0 the non invasive
type is curable....stage 1 invasive yet small sometimes will be "cured" for
the lucky people at stage 2 it is a lifelong disease. Alex
bartalo@webtv.net - 21 Jan 2004 03:36 GMT
>for the lucky people at stage 2 it is a lifelong
> disease. Alex

What are you talking about Alex?  My onc insists my cancer is gone!
Nulla, de nada, no more esta en mio body!  Right!  I told him what I
thought about that because my educated friends (well "some" are my
friends, I hope) in my support group tell me the truth.  He does not
like the fact that I read this group. Hmmmm.....I wonder why??<g    

Seriously tho, I know his job is to help me to cope with this bout in
case it returns  but I need to know what I am up against.  So even if
the truth is hard to bear, we must be willing to hear it.

Bea
Alex - 21 Jan 2004 15:28 GMT
> >for the lucky people at stage 2 it is a lifelong
> > disease. Alex
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> friends, I hope) in my support group tell me the truth.  He does not
> like the fact that I read this group. Hmmmm.....I wonder why??<g    

I had a huge agruement with my husband when I was first diagnosed. He
insisted I was "cured" ...I remember reading in Dr Loves Book that you
are never cured with invasive cancer. We asked my oncologist and
Surgeon who stated I was right. Your doctor is the expert in your
care...he knows through his clinical practice and your past medical
history that YOU will probably never have a recurrence again.. You are
very lucky to have a doctor tell you this they wouldn't tell you this
unless they were confident that you will never have a recurrence. My
doctors have been supportive about me going on the internet but did
warn me that about 50% of what you read may not be true.  I always
double check my sources. Perhaps your doc doesn't want you to get
upset about reading something that doesn't apply to you.
Alex
PS Celebrex is a new and expensive anti inflammatory that doesn't have
the GI side effects of the NSAIDS ( motrin, aleve, etc).
Kaye301 - 21 Jan 2004 16:21 GMT
Alex wrote: <<  ...I remember reading in Dr Loves Book that you
are never cured with invasive cancer. We asked my oncologist and
Surgeon who stated I was right. Your doctor is the expert in your >>

My husband, a former cancer researcher, agrees with that 100%  Now that I have
learned what cancer is and something about how it works, (not that I understand
it completely, but then again neither do the researchers yet), I also agree.
And as far as  non-invasive cancer--the chance for cure is much more likely but
there is no way to guarantee.  What happens when cancer cells proliferate is
that a cell mutation has taken place.  It may be what recognizes the cell as
malignant--in other words the same mechanism that allows a foreign body (a
fetus) to grow may no longer recognize cancer cells as 'foreign bodies'  It has
been postulated that it that mechanism may be the problem source rather than
the individual cancer cell itself.  Some researchers think we get cancer cells
all the time but that most bodies have mechanisms to destroy them.  For some
reason that mechanism's ability to do that is no longer working or doesn't work
as well.  That is only one theory, though.  One's chances of not having a
cancer return are  much greater if it hasn't gotten into the lymph or blood
stream.  
I mentioned this here before--but had an  interesting discussion with one of my
2nd opinion oncologists--people talk about the cancer 'coming back'--where does
it come back from (the pathologyy lab?). In other words the 'mother' or mutated
cell once it has mutated may always be a part of you--although there may not be
enough other factors going on to let it work again, and there is a possibility
that it was also removed and/or destroyed, but it is not known if it did
replicate and there are other microscopic replicase of that cell somewhere in
your body...
bartalo@webtv.net - 21 Jan 2004 19:26 GMT
>You are very lucky to have a doctor tell you
> this they wouldn't tell you this unless they
> were confident that you will never have a
> recurrence. Alex

Before you or anyone else gets the impression that I am just a "doom and
gloomer" looking for black clouds, I think I may have left out the most
important part of my discussion with my Oncologist.  When I asked him
why I had to take Tamoxifen for 5 years if I was already cured of bc, he
said it was so that I would not get any "more" bc.  This infers to me
that I am just as likely to get another bout as some of the rest of you.
I also don't understand how, once a bc tumor has invaded one's body that
they can possibly protect us from some other bc cell roaming about.
When I pressed him for an honest answer, he did admit it could happen to
me again and that is why I need the additional protection.

Also wouldn't being ER+ and Her2+ make me more susceptible to it than
some of you who are ER neg??

Bea
Tim Jackson - 21 Jan 2004 20:01 GMT
> >You are very lucky to have a doctor tell you
> > this they wouldn't tell you this unless they
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Bea

The point about getting "more" bc is not so much that there might be some
left from this tumour but that your tissues have shown that they have the
propensity to make cancer, which means there is more chance that they will
do it again sometime, compared to someone who has never had it.

Even if the tumour was invasive, if there has not yet been any detectable
invasion of the lymph nodes then the prognosis is good.  Any cells shed from
the primary tumour have not been around long enough to build up tumours in
the first place they would land, so there are even less elsewhere, and
whatever there may be should be highly vulnerable to the appropriate
therapy.  In most of these cases the cancer is truly gone.  Where there is
significant node involvement then it is much more of a gamble as to whether
any cancer remains.

It seems to me, thinking about the genetic mechanism and so on,  not
surprising that more cancers happen, but surprising that they don't happen
often.  What was so special about that one or small group of breast cells
that made them mutate into cancers.  There are billions of others that live
the same lifestyle, are exposed to the same carcinogens, eat the same diet,
etc, etc..  What was so special about this one?  This is why I believe that
the nature of cancer is fundamentally random, if it were mainly determined
by these external factors then cancers would burst out all over the breast,
like acne, not just an odd one every 30 years or so.  That said, once you
have had bc once, it is clear that your genetic and environmental ducks are
in the necessary row and all you are waiting for is the random component.
So your risks are higher than those of Ms Average, and so you stand to gain
correspondingly more from taking Tamoxifen (etc) than she does.

As to whether Tamoxifen prevents new cancers forming or just stops them
growing, I think the jury is still out, but there is some evidence for the
former.  There is I think no question that bc survivors who take Tamoxifen
tend to live longer.

Tim
Alexandra Koffman - 21 Jan 2004 22:38 GMT
> Before you or anyone else gets the impression that I am just a "doom and
> gloomer" looking for black clouds, I think I may have left out the most
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
> Bea

Once you have one cancer you can always get a secondary cancer...ie an
unrelated cancer in the other breast. I was told by 2 of docs (GYN and
oncologist) this number goes up 1% each year you live.  A normal person has
a lifetime risk of getting breast cancer of about 12.5% so for someone like
me and age 60 - I will have 32.5% risk getting a secondary breast cancer
42.5% at age 70 and if I am lucky enough to live to age 80 the chances are
stacked in the favor of me having a secondary breast cancer.
This doesn't even consider I had a 29% chance of the cancer returning
initially ( primary cancer recurrence).

If you can listen to the audiocast of the breast cancer update it was very
informative. It will expire in a short amount of time ..so if you want to
listen to it do sooner rather than later.    What I got out of listening is
that surivival rates for women who have stage IV breast cancer and are ER +
they are living much longer....ER neg- they are "thinking " of doing
research. And if you ar ER neg HER neg...there is nothing being done. And
the good news for you if you had a recurrence it can respond to hormones (
and they said if you can't tolerate one you can move to another without any
trouble) and you would be a candidate for Herceptin.

For me I had my last treatment in June and went  wigless in Ocotober.

If you don't mind me asking how old are you ?
A. P. Thorsen - 21 Jan 2004 22:50 GMT
> Once you have one cancer you can always get a secondary cancer...ie an
> unrelated cancer in the other breast.

. . . but bilateral mastectomies will reduce that risk significantly ;-).

Ann T.
Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email
Alexandra Koffman - 22 Jan 2004 00:29 GMT
I have already seen the surgeon, but I am going for genetic counseling but
my husband thinks I have my mind made up to have the mastectomy....and I
agree. Now my issue is when, Alex

> > Once you have one cancer you can always get a secondary cancer...ie an
> > unrelated cancer in the other breast.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Ann T.
> Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email
bartalo@webtv.net - 22 Jan 2004 03:10 GMT
>If you don't mind me asking how old are you ?

I am in my early 60's.  They doctor said my survival rate was better
because I was in my 60's.  I never thought I would be so grateful for
being a senior!<g

Bea
 
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