 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / January 2004American Hospital Association = Joke?
Fixed Contests The American Hospital Association seems to be a club/association, which hospitals/etc can pay dues to & join. http://www.aha.org [The JCAHO might be a part of this. Hospitals volunteer to pay the JCAHO, to inspect themselves. ??? If the rules were too stringent, then the hospitals wouldn't hire them.] This is a joke! The AHA are also the people, who get to help make up & control the Best Hospitals list, which is published in U S News & World Report. Basically, hospitals get to rate themselves. And/or they'll set up the critieria to be such, that only they can win. It's sorta like a fixed beauty contest, where you know the judge's daughter is gonna win, even though she's ugly enough to crack mirrors fifty miles away. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions Our Rating Hospitals & Doctors What the hospitals & their doctors could do, that could really improve things, ... is to give all patients questionnaires to fill out, rating the care they got or didn't get, ... & to have the results of these made readily available to the public. As it is, our opinions are not being heard, acknowledged, or valued by the hospital systems. And other patients aren't being warned of the bad care or dangers. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > Our Rating Hospitals & Doctors > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the hospital systems. And other patients aren't being warned of the bad > care or dangers. Won't work, needs to be done independently like through a consumer association.  Signaturemadiba > Our Rating Hospitals & Doctors Su, This group is alt.SUPPORT.cancer.breast. Diatribes against drug companies, doctors, hospitals, or anything else, aren't going any way to support others here - most especially any new members who come among us. They have enough to cope with without reading negative posts. We all have things going wrong which upset us and which we think shouldn't have gone wrong but life's like that. How about for 2004 ALL of us being positive and giving as much love, comfort and - yes - support - to everyone else on the group? Hugs, Mary Su, This group is alt.SUPPORT.cancer.breast. Diatribes against drug companies, doctors, hospitals, or anything else, aren't going any way to support others here - most especially any new members who come among us. They have enough to cope with without reading negative posts. We all have things going wrong which upset us and which we think shouldn't have gone wrong but life's like that. How about for 2004 ALL of us being positive and giving as much love, comfort and - yes - support - to everyone else on the group? Hugs, Mary ========= Your idea of "support" & mine, are different. I don't believe in blindly supporting & cooperating with whoever's in power (such as doctors, insurance companies, PHARMA companies), & doing whatever they tell me to over & over, ... when it's obviously not working, & is also harming me. That would be stupid. I'd rather read & learn, try to figure out what went wrong & why, try to figure out how things could be done better & such, ... than verbally-attack those people, for whom the standard govt-approved cancer treatments & drugs have failed, ... than tell them they don't matter & must be silent. Some people seem to view doctors & PHARMA companies as being gods & as a religion, which must be blindly believed in, obeyed & followed, no matter what. If the docs/PHARMA had quality products & did quality work, if they were of good value, ... then I might agree somewhat. Unfortunately, I'm mostly met the cream of the cr*p here in Texas, & have been very harmed by them. I refuse to bow down to you or your "gods", or call them wonderful & wise, generous, caring & benevolent beings, ... when they're not, when they've repeatedly proven Not to be so. If there are any good treatments for cancer, then I will keep trying to find them. What I'm showing to others by doing this, is love & support, caring & concern. I want to find some cancer treatments that might work, or work better, & then to share them. Since we don't have common goals, then my posts are not intended for you. If they upset you, then don't read them. You do not have the right, to try to silence those opinions of others, which are different from your own. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions Su wrote: << I refuse to bow down to you or your "gods", or call them wonderful & wise, generous, caring & benevolent beings, ... when they're not, when they've repeatedly proven Not to be so.>> Then it's important to try and work together with them as a team. Although some are more open to this than others, it is important to find one who will do that with you. In order to do that you have to approach them, as well as their staffs, positively--with respect. You can't expect them to be open to doing that if they are put into the defensive from the start--and/or at any time. There is a way to approach things from a more positive perspective. I understand that you are coming from a position of anger. Although your feelings may be quite valid and are uniquely and rightfully yours based on your experiences, past and present, if you use that approach with professionals, they will not be open to giving you their 'best.' Su, the status of cancer treatment is not optimal at this time. And yes, some health care centers as well as physicians are better than others. It may be the luck of the draw or depend on research and networking to find them. However, it is important that you don't sabotage your chances of getting help from them through a less effective approach. Again, I am not at all suggesting that your past treatments were optimal, and I do understand your frustrations. However, if you want to get better services you need to project a more positive demeanor and use that in your approach. As you have indicated the other way has not worked. And once that negative aura has been created, it is hard to break through and re-establish a working relationship with those whom we are in need. << If there are any good treatments for cancer, then I will keep trying to find them. What I'm showing to others by doing this, is love & support, caring & concern. I want to find some cancer treatments that might work, or work better, & then to share them.>> That can be helpful to many. I am doing the same. I am also searching for a treatment approach from an oncologist/team who will look at all the individual factors which are out-of-the norm. It isn't easy. It is quite emotionally exhausting. I was put in contact with one advocate--a physician who has breast cancer herself. It was a bit unnerving to learn that we both were coming from a similar knowledge base re. breast cancer at this/that time. I was able to share information with her that she was unaware of, too. It does not give one a very secure feeling to learn that the optimal treatment for one's condition is not yet known. New and numerous discoveries are being made daily. At times it is quite frightening. It is impossible for any one practitioner to know it all, let alone work with all the individual variations of each patients cancers. However, this whole experience also be looked upon as an adventurous, albeit somewhat 'dangerous' and unchartered journey. It is important, though, to keep one's ultimate goal in mind. I know that you are looking for retribution. At times I feel the same. I shouldn't be here. I did all the right stuff not to get her--yet, the 'system' failed me at different points along the way--kind of like what my normal cells did when they ultimately became cancerous. However, my goal--and it may be a selfish one to some degree--is to survive. That means working within the system--at least I feel that I still need the medical system at this point in time. I know I could not get what I need from this system if I attacked it and believe me there are many reasons for which I could (and perhaps should). However, if I did that, then it would result in my having to put for so much greater effort to get what could have come about more easily at any given time. I am not saying that one should ignore the fallacies of the system but one has to approach it from the way that is going to result in the optimal outcome for you. If not, you may make a somewhat larger dent in the system, but you wind up sacrificing the larger good you might receive, and probably are not any better off in the long run and most likely will be worse off, in at least other ways, than if you adopted a different approach. Kaye wrote: In order to do that you have to approach them, as well as their staffs, positively--with respect. You can't expect them to be open to doing that if they are put into the defensive from the start--and/or at any time. There is a way to approach things from a more positive perspective. I understand that you are coming from a position of anger. Although your feelings may be quite valid and are uniquely and rightfully yours based on your experiences, past and present, if you use that approach with professionals, they will not be open to giving you their 'best.' Su, ============= Hi Kaye, As I've told you MANY times before, the problem is not my approach or manner. I was tortured & abused from birth, so I can stay very calm, logical & practical at appts, no matter what. The bad games some doctors choose to play, are childish. Their skill levels (for abuse & meanness) are quite low, when compared to my birth-family. Therefore, the docs can't provoke or upset me at med appts. And I will cooperate with any treatment the doctor suggests, that sounds even semi-reasonable or rational. I'm also very hopeful & positive, each time I see a doctor. It's a chance to learn more, & to ask for information, help, & referral again. There's no way I'd blow that chance. None. My attitude & approach to the doctors, are NOT the problem. After I've been refused good care, information & referral, etc. by the doctors, ... & later, am suffering worse & worse, am sick & in more pain, am in worse living conditions, etc., ... then I will sometimes scream in writing on the internet. My reaction is probably very mild, esp. when you consider what other people might do, in similar circumstances. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > I don't believe in blindly supporting & cooperating with whoever's in > power (such as doctors, insurance companies, PHARMA companies), & doing [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > treatments & drugs have failed, ... than tell them they don't matter & > must be silent. I find it hard to believe that the whole medical system in Texas is dramatically worse than the rest of the US, and to be quite honest I don't see too much variation across the civilised world. It also seems that not all Texans have suffered such misfortunes as you have. Where things have gone wrong I agree that we want to figure out how things could have been done better. Using four letter words to describe the entire medical and pharmaceutical fraternity does not achieve this. This is confrontational and does nothing to persuade the targets of the errors of their ways. Nor does it convince the potential victims, new patients, to do something about it. They are something of a captive audience, they have to get medical attention somewhere: if you convince them that the entire Texan (American? World?) medical system is useless then what do you suggest that they should do instead? Their only choices are either to disbelieve you or to be frightened, that is all. It doesn't help them, and it makes your argument less credible than if you were to identify specific problems that could be addressed. I am not trying to silence your opinions, but I'd like to see the discussion taken forward in a constructive manner. In my day job I solve engineering problems that are presented to me, and believe me there is nothing more useless than the all-too-common fault report "It just doesn't work. It's all buggered up." It is best to separate the enemy's strengths and defeat him "in detail". Tim Jackson Hi Tim, Right now, I'm very scared. I've been drugged-down, very sick & getting worse on Arimidex, for about a year & a half. Now that I'm no longer taking it, my mind is starting to wake up some, & I'm beginning to realize how bad this has been, & how wrong. I think it's very wrong of the doctors, to consider no other therapy but estrogen-blocking drugs, & to insist we keep taking them no matter what. No matter how many doctors & oncologists I contact here, they say that's all there is. At M D Anderson too. Nothing more. At Cancer Treatment Centers of America (in Oklahoma), they'll let you see a naturopath & nutritionist. However, the nutritionist is probably limited, by being forced to comply to govt-standards. And I don't have much faith in naturopaths. The Center won't do any extra bloodwork, unless you can pay cash for it. Almost everywhere & everyway we seek information, is blocked. And this does get very frustrating! Recently, I wasted about a week, posting at an alternative medicine newsgroup, Where I defended against one verbal attack after another, earning my place, .... only to find they seem to have almost nothing to offer. There's a bunch of people there, going after & bashing anyone who says that standard medical care isn't the best, the greatest. I need somewhere to turn to get information & discuss it, & so far, I can't find that. I'd rather that a doctor worked with me, as I try to sort through the integrative, complimentary, & alternative care, but they won't. The docs here act determinedly-dumb, limited, cold, ... like brick walls. It's very bad here. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions PS I have bronchitis now, am zonked out on meds for it, am trying hard to survive it, & am still very determined to find & reach some good cancer care, ... before the determinedly-dumb, ever-delaying, foot-dragging, & time-killing docs here, manage to murder me with their ongoing non-care, their non-working minds. > (in Oklahoma), <snip> My friend lived in OK for over 10 years and said some of the worst scammers operated out of there. (not just regarding cancer). > I need somewhere to turn to get information & discuss it, & so far, I > can't find that. http://nccam.nih.gov/ http://www.bccancer.bc.ca/PPI/UnconventionalTherapies/default.htm http://www.plwc.org/plwc/Shared/plwc_ArticleViewPrint/1,1890,30480,00.html (there's a phone number there to call) J > Right now, I'm very scared. I've been drugged-down, very sick & getting > worse on Arimidex, for about a year & a half. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > No matter how many doctors & oncologists I contact here, they say that's > all there is. At M D Anderson too. Nothing more. Su, I can understand you being scared- we all are. Yes the estrogen blocking treatment has been proven to save lives/ prolong lives. It now has a track record and has improved the quality and quantity of life for thousands. Unfortunately my tumor is not hormone receptive positive so this is not even an option for me. And yes is is very scary to have nothing to do but sit and wait. It sounds like somebody on your medical team is trying to advocate for you since it would be easy for the team to say ..ok don't take the blockers. I am also frustrated too that more is not offered for breast cancer survivors. Rather than beat your drum here against the American US Healthcare System why not start another newsgroup about medical reform. Do you have any suggestions on how to improve the system? Why not lobby the agencies you think are at fault....the pharmacy and hospital associations? In answer the care in Texas, Texas has some fine hospitals and a top notch world class hospital MD Anderson...sorry that you haven't made a good connection, Alex Alex wrote: Rather than beat your drum here against the American US Healthcare System why not start another newsgroup about medical reform. Do you have any suggestions on how to improve the system? Why not lobby the agencies you think are at fault....the pharmacy and hospital associations? ========= Hi Alex, Everything I've tried so far, has proved a dead-end. Agencies that were set up to regulate things, don't, ... & the govt employees don't care. The govt sets up an agency & funds it, very openly & publicly with bands playing, ... then withdraws almost all funds, but leaves the name on a door, for appearances sake only, ... such as Legal Aid, Workmen's Comp, Medical Examiner's Office, Health & Human Services, etc. When you go there, there's no help, due to massive amounts of govt rules & regulations, and/or to lack of funds & personnel. Private organizations like Advocacy Inc., act much the same. They take in funds. which somehow disappear. And there's no help there. -------------- Associations which are set up to monitor, are often private clubs which monitor their own, such as hospital associations, medical associations. This presents serious conflicts of interest. Almost everything so far, has proved very misleading or bogus, ... such as the hospital rankings in US News & World Report, which is where M D Anderson is rated highly, based on a very flawed criteria, on a bad set of rules which limit the voting. ------------- I've been given lots of misinformation, bad information, which has led nowhere, ... such as reporting things to the AMA, to the hospitals, to the hospital associations, to the universities, to my insurance company, to govt agencies, to the police & sheriff's office, to the DA's office, to the Texas Attorney General, to judges, etc. The Texas governor's office has also been a dead-end, under Bush & then Perry. The only place left, is to go through elected representatives. Lately, I haven't had the strength or cash to try this, partly because I've felt so deathly ill, so down & out on the estrogen-blocking drugs. -------------- As for bad docs, my latest lead is to report them to their county medical associations, ... which I'll start doing, as soon as I'm able. As for bad govt attorneys, I've learned they are to be reported to the FBI. However, the FBI has lost my report, so I'll have to write another one, & start the process over again. I feel so disgusted, that I'm having some trouble doing this one. This has proved very frustrating for me, time-consuming & expensive, esp. with no legal help or advice. Now that I'm off the bad cancer meds, then maybe I can function much better, ... can return to walking for exercise, eating right, taking supplements, taking better care of myself & the puppies, etc., ... regain some of my health, ... & start pursuing positive changes in the failed govt systems (& the industries which they're supposed to monitor & control), more determinedly. However, right now I've got bronchitis, am on meds for it, am coughing all night & ain't getting sleep, etc. ---------------- The Arimidex robbed me of any good health or feelings. It seemed to have caused many health problems (including sudden acute lymphedema), .. & basically made my life hell on earth, for a year & a half, ... with NO guarantee of its working at all, & with no other options for medical care or treatment, being offered. ??? For me, Arimidex proved Not to be a good option or choice. For chemotherapy & radiation, there are NO tests to see if these treatments have worked. None! The prognosis for cancer patients with mets (which has spread to lymph nodes), is extremely grim, ... like one in six might survive for five years. ??? Wouldn't some patients have survived for that long (or longer) anyway? Aren't some cancers much slower-growing, than others? How can cancer care still be this down-level, primitive, & such blind-faith-in-doctors-type stuff, ... with the one-approach-only treatments, with the PHARMA-drug-approach only, ... when so much time & money have been poured into the cancer industry & associations, for so many years now? Most things that affect the body, have more than one cause, ... so estrogen (& the blocking of it), shouldn't be the ONLY thing, on which the docs are choosing to focus. It doesn't make sense. The doctors should be doing better testing & diagnosis up-front, ... such as, to see which cancers are fast or slow growing, what might have caused or be causing the cancer, & which treatments would be best, ... rather than to keep pushing the same treatments off on everyone, & saying that those who sicken & die from it, are an "acceptable loss". At this point, I feel we've been conned & badly betrayed by the medical industry. I'm now scared & angry about this. I'm hurt & hurting. ------------- So far, I can find no talk groups, associations, etc., who are interested in or working on these problems, ... & the abuse counselors I've seen in Texas & Louisiana, don't know of any either. However, there are newsgroups & the internet. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions I couldn't agree more regarding better testing and treatment- and I think being hurt and angry are normal responds but you can't live your life being angry. I don't know what to say to you other than you are a survivor. I was suggesting why don't you start a newsgroup - here or on yahoo to discuss medical system issues some good ideas can come out of brainstorming, ALex . > The doctors should be doing better testing & diagnosis up-front, ... > such as, to see which cancers are fast or slow growing, what might have [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Susan, Su_Texas my opinions > The prognosis for cancer patients with mets (which has spread to lymph > nodes), is extremely grim, ... like one in six might survive for five > years. ??? Wouldn't some patients have survived for that long (or > longer) anyway? Aren't some cancers much slower-growing, than others? Su, just one comment, which I hope will help ease your mind a little. You talk about "mets which has spread to lymph nodes". But if the spread is confined to the lymph nodes (= Stage III) the prognosis is a lot better than the figures you quote. The latest figures I have read for 5-year survival and 10 year survival in stage III patients are 45% and 40% respectively. Besides, stage isn't everything. Tumor grade and other tumor characteristics should also be considered. And don't forget that these figures are based on patients who got their treatment at least 5-10 years ago. Newer medicines like Herceptin, Arimidex, Femara and so on will probably improve the statistics. >How about for 2004 ALL of us being positive > and giving as much love, comfort and - yes - > support - to everyone else on the group? >Hugs, >Mary Mary, I think limiting the group to only "positive" reports would eliminate the majority of the postings. This IS a cancer group and most of the stuff we have to share and teach each other is very depressing but it must be learned. I will grant you I hate reading about the "bad" side effects of a drug but I am grateful to those who share such things because it gives me the knowledge I may need if I take the drug and my doctor (as all too often) says it is just my nerves and the drug doesn't cause those side effects. I also hate to hear that some of our beloved posters or their wives do not survive this damnable disease but it forewarns me that we are dealing with something which can take our lives and we must use every effort we have to fight it. I POSITIVELY hate cancer! And I "positively" want everyone to survive it but too many don't. Sorry if my post sounds negative to you but anything I learned, I learned right here from the kind sharings of people like yourself. I wish we all could depend on the best medical care possible for our bc but Su-Texas is not completely off the wall with her rants. I will not post the url here because it is very depressing but yesterday, I read an article written by a well-known personality and her feelings about medicine and our medical help was quite a lot like Su's. IMO, we need the positive and "good news" posts but if people can't share their agonies with us, this would not be much of a "support" group. Some posters just have a unique way of sharing their help and support but I think they have good intentions. Bea We are regularily handed questionnaries after a test, treatment, hospital stay etc. This is how they find out how they're doing in different areas of the hospital, and where they need to improve things. This is also part of the rankings when they are inspected. I only know how it is here, and granted things are different everywhere...but I truly don't believe it's as bad as we're hearing it is...I think if it was truly that bad in Texas, we'd sure be hearing from more then one person. I belong to several message boards {not cancer related} and lots of the people are from different areas of Texas, and have never mentioned anything as bad as what we're reading here. Obviously we all need medical attention at one time or another and none from these boards {the Texans} have ever posted that they've had any of these expierences with any of the hospital or doctors being posted about here. And these are boards where we talk about everything..several are just general discussion boards with no specific title or subject. HTH's Take care there/God bless annie Ultimately.....we know deeply that the other side of every fear is a freedom. "Courage"...is *fear* that has said it's prayers. morning_dove1@webtv.net (?*?Annie?*?) wrote in message news:<1377-3FF7CAF1-65@storefull-2312.public.lawson.webtv.net>... > We are regularily handed questionnaries after a test, treatment, > hospital stay etc. This is how they find out how they're doing in [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > "Courage"...is *fear* that has said it's prayers. ========== Yes Annie, we're fully aware of your flaws & failings by now: your need to bully others (to cat-scratch), ... your need to repeatedly label those who don't agree with you, as being liars & such, ... your presentation of yourself as having social position, & your beliefs as having significant back-up & reinforcement from others, ... & your need to see & present yourself, as being such a "good Christian woman", while you're doing harm. You stay the same Annie. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions >Yes Annie, we're fully aware of your flaws & failings by now: I'm not aware of Annie being the one with "flaws & failings", but whatever. Like Annie, I can't help but wonder how the medical system in Texas can be as awful as Su makes it sound, when there aren't others from Texas coming forward with the same stories. Sue - DivaofDVC aka WDW1972 DVC '97 OKW, Beach Club, Vero Beach, & Hilton Head WDW wrote: I'm not aware of Annie being the one with "flaws & failings", but whatever. Like Annie, I can't help but wonder how the medical system in Texas can be as awful as Su makes it sound, when there aren't others from Texas coming forward with the same stories. Sue - DivaofDVC aka WDW1972 DVC '97 OKW, Beach Club, Vero Beach, & Hilton Head ======== One explanation is the "Forced Silence" Syndrome. When someone (like me) breaks the silence, & says there's something seriously wrong here, ... then they're usually verbally attacked, challenged & bullied about it (publicly "stoned"), and/or shunned, for a very long time. Usually, everyone knows what's wrong (such as abuse situations, etc), but they don't want anyone else talking openly about it. I've now learned enough skills, to get around and/or overcome this, ... to keep speaking out & gain some support, & to keep going, ... to keep trying for some good/positive changes. However, the medical situation is so bad in East Texas, that the people here do talk very openly about it, & often. ------------ The Internet Most people would rather not share their personal experiences on the internet, because it robs them of privacy, & leaves them open to trolls & such, to personal attacks, ... esp. at a time when they're feeling vulnerable, such as with having cancer. They prefer privacy & safety. I'm so badly injured, & have now been harmed in so many other ways too, .. that privacy is no longer an option for me. I'd rather choose duty, & work for positive changes. ------------ Threats Before I became very vocal about the situation here, I was warned (by a stranger, who confronted me in a hospital cafeteria, in 1998-1999), ... not to say anything bad about Bush & things here, or I'd be killed. At first, I was scared. Then I thought & prayed about it, & felt it was my duty to speak up & to warn others, for as long as I could. I've now been harmed to the point, where I have nothing to lose. Other people do have something or someone to lose, & can easily be threatened into silence. ------------- Protection Most people have no protection. I do have some. My mother (a completely evil & sadistic, abuser & predator) is wealthy & socially prominent, ... so I get a strange mix of harm/protection from that. In Texas, being a "Friggin' First" (first family) means something. Recently I learned what that meant (from watching City Confidential on TV), & I then learned that I am one, on both sides of the family, for many generations back. I live on the edge of town, am very socially active (I go out almost every day, drive around town, meet & greet, stop & chat a while), ... have always cared about & tried to help other people in any ways I can, .. worked at the post office for many years, etc. I went away to college after high school, & got an electrical engineering degree, which means something to people here. Since Jan 2000, I've also filed many court papers, explaining my situation, ... made many reports to the police. Many people now know exactly what's happening to me & why. I probably have some protection (which I don't know about), from powerful people in this community, ... & some favors are being done for me, so I can stay here & survive in poverty. However, I'm still living in a very cluttered house with bad wiring, no running water or heat, etc. And the yard's a mess. It's difficult. As soon as I can get a lawyer & some funds, things will get much better for me. Unfortunately, the lawyers refuse to work for contingency, due to bad laws, & the justices on Texas Supreme Court who're reversing most cases that make it that far. ------------ Why don't more people report how bad medical care is here? I don't know. These are just some theories. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions Sue...I guess I would just have to give back the advice to you that you posted to someone else in this thread..if you don't like what I'm saying, then don't read my posts. Seems simple to me. As far as the "social position" you think I'm pushing in here...I just stating facts dear..My husband works at a hospital in this area. He's been their electrican for 27+ years. And the hospital _does_ happen to be one of the best cancer treatment centers in Northwest Ohio. This also has not a darn thing to do with any kind of "social position" you might think I have. This is also fact. And what I post, and have posted in the past has been what I've learned while going through this, and in the dealing I've had here with the people that work at this hospital, where I had my surgeries and treatments. I continue to find it ironic that what you're faulting others for doing in their reply's is EXACTLY what you do when you read posts that just don't happen to set well with you, and what your beliefs are... You're allowed to attack and trash what others have posted, and the person personally, and that's okay? I will continue to post when I feel as though you are doing something that could very well be detrimental to others that are coming here for support. It's a fact that you're scaring people with what you're posting. I've had several private emails asking me if what you're posting is true, and that they're scared by what you've posted, and wanted to ask about information privately, rather then post here and have you attack them as well regarding their opinions and beliefs. Sad... You seem to have all kinds of time and energy to sit at your keyboard ranting and raving about what has happened to you, attacking others for their opinions..post how tired you are from all that has happened to you, and how terrible we are when we post back to the group as far as our opinions about a thread you started. Can I add here that you don't exactly have the market cornered on grief and illness here..take a look around this disease is not just about Sue...there are many others here that are hurting, and still try and give support and compassin and they're not doing in in a mean spirited way either. If I was as worn out as you seem to be telling us you are, then I'd be resting instead of punching my keyboard about things that arein the past and move along and see what you can do to make things better for yourself. And if you're so fired up about what has happened to you and want to change things for yourself, and others then spend your time researching and making calls to the appropriate agencies. The time you spend here ranting about things, and attacking those of us that are posting, would be used in additional phone calls, emails etc. Or forming a news group of yuor own as others have suggested to you. And last but not least, as far as the way I sign off on my posts...{ref:God bless/Take care} I think you are making yourself look rather foolish as far as trashing me for my beliefs and my willingness to share my thoughts and compassion with the others here that need support, in what I sign off with... You might try being a little gentler/kinder in your treatment of others, and you might find you are feeling better about your life and your future. I was told while growing up that when people aren't happy in their own lives they usually do their best to make others around them pretty miserable. The old saying goes "Misery loves company" And as others know from my posts over the last few years I've tried to be helpful to you as well as the others here that have also made suggestions in an effort to help you get some of these things resolved. I truly don't believe you want to move forward..it wouldn't get you the attention your rants are getting for you now. Take care and God bless you. I do sincerely hope you find peace in your life someday....you certainly won't get it acting or posting here as you've been doing for as long as I can remember. annie Ultimately.....we know deeply that the other side of every fear is a freedom. "Courage"...is *fear* that has said it's prayers. Annie, Sorry to see you caught up in this mess. I learned long ago just to ignore Su's postings. Makes newsgroup life much easier! Take care. ...lisa Annie, sweet soul, no need to apologize to "the rest". Su writes that "we're fully aware of your flaws & failings". I most empathically demand not to be dragged into that "we" of hers. She can only speak for herself and HER opinions, and she sure does. *I* for one am fully aware of your kindness, helpfulness and good heart. Love to you, sofie254 > Annie, sweet soul, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Love to you, > sofie254 Ditto. Susan doesn't speak for me either. I feel rather responsible for this correspondence since I seemed to start Su's postings by suggesting that a support groups might not be the best place to write discouraging words. I apologise to everyone who has been drawn into the unfortunate arguments. My hope was that we could make 2004 a happier year ... I still believe that we can. Hugs to everyone, Mary > I feel rather responsible for this correspondence since I seemed to start > Su's postings by suggesting that a support groups might not be the best > place to write discouraging words. You're right, it isn't.. > I apologise to everyone who has been drawn into the unfortunate arguments. > My hope was that we could make 2004 a happier year ... I still believe > that we can. No need to apologise, it was the right thing to say. A support group is a network of people who support each other. If someone in the network continously shows deep bitterness in their posts it will ultimately break apart. The group functions for a while, but tensions build up and disturb the vital support function. I was the one who (not totally unwittingly) stepped on the landmine, and when the dust started to settle others felt it was time to voice their opinions on the matter too. - Although recent posts indicate that Annie got her gun some time ago.. But time is a precious commodity, in this NG more so than in most. So avoid tension and drawn-out arguments by simply killfiling individuals that irritate you and get back to supporting each other. You're doing a marvellous job of it and don't need a doc here. I'll be over in s.m.d.c should Tim or J not be able to answer your queries. Bye. Signaturemadiba > But time is a precious commodity, in this NG more so than in most. > So avoid tension and drawn-out arguments by simply killfiling > individuals that irritate you and get back to supporting each other. > You're doing a marvellous job of it and don't need a doc here. I'll be > over in s.m.d.c should Tim or J not be able to answer your queries. > Bye. Eeeeee! *Please* don't leave! I, for one, appreciate your contributions and expertise. It seems like some kind of kerfluffle breaks out about once a year or thereabouts, then we all get over it an go on Nicely for a while . . . . Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email I'll be over in s.m.d.c should Tim or J not be able to answer your queries. What does SMDC stand for ? And why not just block senders who drive your crazy ? Alex > What does SMDC stand for ? sci.med.diseases.cancer which was initially intended for cancer professionals (doctors, pathologists etc to post to) and some still do. However, patients have discovered it also AND some of the (american) doctors have had to leave due to risk of litigation (I think, but don't totally remember why) issues in the US. Madiba and Steph are from other countries so it's not an issue. So they read that newsgroup. Steph also reads and posts alt.support.cancer I'm the "steering committee" and try to steer diagnosed patients to their applicable cancer support newsgroups. J > I'll be > over in s.m.d.c should Tim or J not be able to answer your queries. > > What does SMDC stand for ? And why not just block senders who drive your > crazy ? Its not the nutty posters (actually one gets far more in the sci.med. groups than the alt. groups -they obviously feel the need to prove something there) its time to move on, you guys are doing fine. Signaturemadiba > No need to apologise, it was the right thing to say. > A support group is a network of people who support each other. If [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > over in s.m.d.c should Tim or J not be able to answer your queries. > Bye. We all have different needs and skills. We can't each offer all the support every writer needs. Patients with serious diseases do tend to go through a phase of anger and attacking those trying to help. It comes with the turf. For example my whole family was expelled from the local health centre's list because my late wife got angry at them when she had cancer. Handling anger is a particular skill. One thing I learned for sure is that retaliation rarely helps. Madiba, if you can't or don't want to help with a particular sort of problem, that is fine, just ignore it. I hope you won't deprive the rest of the group of the valuable input you can provide just because you have a problem with one particular poster. Please? I would take issue with the suggestion that we don't need input from medical professionals, it is something I see as in very short supply here. Sadly it seems that professionals rarely hang around for long because not everyone gives them the respect they (and I ) feel they deserve. Yes, the idea here is to get a consensus of opinions from all directions, and experienced patients are the main source, but the view is one sided without an occasional glimpse of the doctor's view of the coal face, given outside the consulting room. Tim Jackson > Madiba, if you can't or don't want to help with a particular sort of > problem, that is fine, just ignore it. I hope you won't deprive the rest > of the group of the valuable input you can provide just because you have a > problem with one particular poster. Please? Hey Tim, now you've created the impression I'm leaving in a huff.. :-/ > I would take issue with the suggestion that we don't need input from > medical professionals, it is something I see as in very short supply here. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > without an occasional glimpse of the doctor's view of the coal face, given > outside the consulting room. I meant what I said about the members of this NG doing a good job of supporting each other. The longer I remained here the more I felt I was intruding. Why should I watch over conversations between cancer patients who are learning by sharing their experiences? If there is a diff. of opinion, ask in one of the sci.med. groups, always MDs floating around there. I'm still reachable in smd.cancer, sm.radiology and sm.dentistry (a hobby). I was also here in a.s.c.breast to get some feedback. In Sept. I applied for a clin. onc. consultant's post in the S.Eastern UK with BC as subspeciality -didn't get it, so I'm in radiology at the moment and not at the onc. 'coal face' anyway. Signaturemadiba Madiba wrote << I meant what I said about the members of this NG doing a good job of supporting each other. >> Your professional expertise was very much welcomed by many You have been able to provide input from a different perspective which was helpful in quickly allaying many fears and anxieties. In addition you have been able to clarify areas that were not well understood as well as provide helpful information that was not readily or easily accessible in a timely manner, which was of invaluable assistance. << Why should I watch over conversations between cancer patients who are learning by sharing their experiences? If there is a diff. of opinion, ask in one of the sci.med. groups, always MDs floating around there. >> During the earlier stages of internet, in my days of technological naivite' or back when I was more technologically challenged ('96) I went online to find out information about an area of my profession that I was getting back into but hadn't been around for awhile. Because I was using one of the earliest versions of aol from a MAC I didn't have alot of options. I found a parent group. What I learned from that parent group was more valuable than any of the technical information that I could have received. I thought I had always been sensitive to parents. However, on-going contact with those who dealt with the realities of the situation on an on-going basis, broadened my perspective even further and allowed me to come from a position that further enhanced my credibility. And I was able to offer advice from a professional perspective that enabled parents to better understand and work more effectively with the 'enemy.' They were able to reduce their defenses and come to understand that we shared a common goal. At one time I came from a position of invincibility. At one time I thought, I beat M.S., why not cancer? After all, the hype we get from the media and latest 'catch phrases' thrown around from various cancer groups suggest that will happen. Even some dr's come from that perspective, and not wrongly so. However, over time, I have had to learn to accept the humbleness of the position I am in. I am not sure that is how to 'correctly' say it, but hope I am getting the point I want to make across. It hasn't been easy. And at one time I came from the position of vulnerability and anger--more because of the fruustration and fears regarding my own situation than anything else--which led me to write something that was hurtful and that I almost immediately regretted. << I'm still reachable in smd.cancer, sm.radiology and sm.dentistry (a hobby). >> Dentistry, a hobby? A masochistic one! (just kidding--I am married to a dentist who also has his Ph.D. in biological chemistry) << In Sept. I applied for a clin. onc. consultant's post in the S.Eastern UK with BC as subspeciality -didn't get it, so I'm in radiology at the moment and not at the onc. 'coal face' anyway.>> Wishing you the very best, and, hopefully you will at least visit here from time-to-time, if you are unable to regularly participate. And, should you remain in radiology, I am sure that you will be able to use some of the information you have picked up from some of us. (Yesterday, my husband spoke with a private nuclear radiologist--a woman recommended by my private (as opposed to HMO) neurologist whom I've consulted with for the past 10 years--who wants to see all my scans (without reports)--which hopefully, will clear up some of the inconsistencies. I never realized the complexities involved in radiology before I went through all this. I would be a 'wash' at it. My ability to visually discriminate subtleties is not a strength. (I could never figure out the 'magic eye' illusions that most others can so easily see). Tim wrote: << We all have different needs and skills. We can't each offer all the support every writer needs. Patients with serious diseases do tend to go through a phase of anger and attacking those trying to help. It comes with the turf. >> I am not so sure it is just a phase, it is more like a waves--that surface more strongly at different times than others. I know that I have been caught on a crest at a time when I was most vulnerable, fearful, and frustrated which resulted in a response that was out-of-character and I wrote something that I almost immediately regretted. << I would take issue with the suggestion that we don't need input from medical professionals, it is something I see as in very short supply here. >> It is most definately of invaluable assistance in terms of providing missing information as well as clarifying such which helps increase our understanding, in addition to more quickly allaying fears and anxieties. That alone is quite invaluable and enables those without background in this and related areas to make better informed decisions about treatment options. Changed title of thread? I am not sure how that happened but there must be a monitor on usenet who did that. I did not change the title of this thread and add Madiba's name. I am concerned, though, that it was done. I am not sure that putting someone's name is necessarily appropriate and may be uncomfortable to some. So, whomever is monitoring this group and did that--I am requesting that this no longer be done and would appreciate correction, if at all still possible. > Changed title of thread? I am not sure how that happened but there must be a > monitor on usenet who did that. I did not change the title of this thread and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > that this no longer be done and would appreciate correction, if at all still > possible. No monitor, Kaye -- Usenet is a near-anarchy. No one is in charge, literally. Those who post control their own subject lines. It looks to me as if Tim changed the subject line to include Madiba's name when he replied on a more personal level than the main branch of the thread. This is common practice, though I understand your concern that some may be uncomfortable with it. Your post "inherited" the new title, when you replied to Madiba's reply to Tim. No one can change it now; technically you could cancel your post but that process isn't too reliable, and not all systems support it in the same way. Ann T. Remove 'dontsendspam' from address to reply by email > > Changed title of thread? I am not sure how that happened but there must be a > > monitor on usenet who did that. I did not change the title of this thread and [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > post but that process isn't too reliable, and not all systems support it > in the same way. Yes, exactly. Kaye, your browser defaults to the same subject line as the post you are replying to (prefixed "Re: " if not already there), but you are free to change it. It isn't always a good idea to do so because Google, and possibly other browsers, sort the posts into a separate thread if the subject is changed, that's why I left the first few words alone. It is not uncommon. You were posting to the thread "Bone Mets" with my name attached (by Annie) since yesterday. I guess you did not notice that one. Tim << It is not uncommon. You were posting to the thread "Bone Mets" with my name attached (by Annie) since yesterday. I guess you did not notice that one. No, I wasn't aware of that--that I was posting to the thread "Bone Mets". The address I had was the same for all the posts. It started as: "Re: American Hospital Association = joke?" That was how it was listed through usenet on aol. However, one could find the same post under different, changed headings at anyone given name if using different email names. That was in the past when I used either my professional address or sometimes my husbands (which we've shared) and is our 'family' email address. Thread titles used to change often on a newsgroup through aol; generally, it wasn't the poster who changed anything. I am guessing that some news groups provider have someone who foresees the group. This does not happen when this group is accessed through google. The thread subject title remains the same. > << It is not uncommon. You were posting to the thread "Bone Mets" with my name > attached (by Annie) since yesterday. I guess you did not notice that one. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > provider have someone who foresees the group. This does not happen when this > group is accessed through google. The thread subject title remains the same. I doubt very much if AOL have a human changing thread subjects. Any changes would only be visible to AOL users because Usenet is a broadcast medium. It would be like having your TV cable company change the name of network television programs. Why should they want to anyway, and how could they justify the wages of a staff member to do it? Maybe the AOL browser displays the subject line of the original post for all posts in a thread and ignores their own subject lines, that would be possible if a bit odd. But then there's plenty about AOL that's a bit odd. Google anomalously displays posts with changed subject lines as starting a new thread, which means the link back to the earlier part is broken. The subject line that I changed had already been changed once in the thread and was "Re: American Hospital Association = Joke?/Long+apology to the rest here" Some browsers might truncate that somewhere though. Tim Tim wrote: >Maybe the AOL browser displays the subject line of the original post for all >posts in a thread and ignores their own subject lines, Nope. I'm using AOL (free trial while I'm working out the broadband deal) and I see the changed subject lines. Perhaps it's a newsgroup reader customizable property? ...lisa Lisa wrote: << I see the changed subject lines. Perhaps it's a newsgroup reader customizable property? It is unique to usenet, although am not sure if aol only. I just went back and forth--same email name--looking at newsgroups and the threads were different at different times. Most recently the change went to "Re: American Hosital Association -" without the words joke???... or Madiba after it; however, in this index it is listed with the word - jokes???... after it. The Bone mets thread is listed separately. Sometimes the list will contain the same thread title but list it several times with one or two articles only. Again, this can change just from deleting the newsgroup and then accessing it immediately. It can be very frustrating if you are knocked off-line while responding to an article and then go back, having to start all over and not being able to find the article you were writing about because its now listed under another thread. If that does happen, and I get frustrated enough I can look at the group through google and easily find the article since it's under the original thread which is indexed to the side. > Lisa wrote: << I see the changed subject lines. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Association -" without the words joke???... or Madiba after it; however, in > this index it is listed with the word - jokes???... after it. Yes, I removed the name in my reply, in response to your request and because it was no longer applicable. You'll also see with long subject lines that WebTV replies truncate it to about 70 characters - see Sue's latest post in this thread for an example. > The Bone mets thread is listed separately. > Sometimes the list will contain the same thread [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > article and then go back, having to start all over and not being able to find > the article you were writing about because its now listed under another thread. Possibly what is happening is that the initial posts of the thread are timing out and being deleted, so if the subject has been changed midway, the index entry will change when a different subject becomes the oldest remaining post. The old posts are probably deleted when you log off, hence the list you see when you log on reflects the state when you last logged off, plus new additions. The deletions are suddenly brought up to date if you log off and on again immediately. Can you set the local retention time on your browser (if it keeps posts on your hard disk)? You would get this sort of confusion if your retention time was set shorter than the server's, the server might keep reinstating posts that your browser had expired, leading to broken threads like you describe. If not, I guess that's a design flaw, FWIW you could complain to AOL about it. > If that does happen, and I get frustrated enough I can look at the group > through google and easily find the article since it's under the original thread > which is indexed to the side. Google breaks the thread when the subject changes, never deletes anything, and doesn't store anything on your computer, so it would never have this problem. What is does do silly is to concatenate threads which have the same name even if they are 5 years apart and totally unconnected, which can be equally confusing. It just doesn't use the threading information in the message headers at all. Tim Tim wrote << Yes, I removed the name in my reply, in response to your request and because it was no longer applicable.>> I only mentioned it because I wasn't sure if Madiba had felt comfortable with it, but I am not even sure she was aware of it from her server. I know that you don't mind if your name is in the title (if the post is 'appropriate'); it can help the intended viewer to see it earlier and respond faster. << Possibly what is happening is that the initial posts of the thread are timing out and being deleted, so if the subject has been changed midway, the index entry will change when a different subject becomes the oldest remaining post. The old posts are probably deleted when you log off, hence the list you see when you log on reflects the state when you last logged off, plus new additions. The deletions are suddenly brought up to date if you log off and on again immediately.>> I am not sure how 'deletions' figure into it, but one can keep posts for at least 30 days (and I think possibly 60 or 90 days). I guess the system isn't 'perfect' but google does seem to do a bit better of a job at organizing the posts. Can you set the local retention time on your browser (if it keeps posts on your hard disk)? You would get this sort of confusion if your retention time was set shorter than the server's, the server might keep reinstating posts that your browser had expired, leading to broken threads like you describe. If not, I guess that's a design flaw, FWIW you could complain to AOL about it. > If that does happen, and I get frustrated enough I can look at the group > through google and easily find the article since it's under the original thread > which is indexed to the side. << I doubt very much if AOL have a human changing thread subjects. Any changes would only be visible to AOL users because Usenet is a broadcast medium. >> It is hard to explain, and am not sure how its done or by whom unless individual posters along the way added or deleted something from the title. It doesn't happen all the time and when it did occur it could happen several times with same thread. It was not unsual to find your article listed in a different thread title, albeit it was still in response to the post that it was intended. And as I mentioned, it could be listed under different thread titles, depending on the email name or the computer you were using with same email name. This tended to happen with long threads with many responses) and occurred more frequently with some thhan with others. This never happened though through google on which the thread title remains consistent. > << I doubt very much if AOL have a human changing thread subjects. Any changes > would only be visible to AOL users because Usenet is a broadcast medium. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > occurred more frequently with some thhan with others. This never happened > though through google on which the thread title remains consistent. Kaye: Even with Webtv access we can change the subject line. I just took Maiba's name off the top of this and it will probably post without it now. No secret little elf hiding in the shadows changing subject lines,,,,,,only certain posters.<g BTW, I am not the poster who added Maiba's name to this post earlier. However, I have done this and seen it done on certain occasions to get attention of a poster someone wants to particularly respond to. If it bothers you in this group, I will refrain from doing so. Bea Bea wrote: << I am not the poster who added Maiba's name to this post earlier. However, I have done this and seen it done on certain occasions to get attention of a poster someone wants to particularly respond to. If it bothers you in this group, I will refrain from doing so.>> Hi Bea, first I am not asking you not to change titles or add comments to subject, and personally it didn't bother me. I was just wondering if Madiba had had concerns about her name on the subject line (not knowing if that is a 'real' name or one used just for posting. She may not have been aware of it if she was posting through google where the basic thread title remains the same, I think. I don't think there is a problem with changing the subject title for the most part. The only time I find it confusing is if I am in the middle of responding to a post online and get knocked off-line while in the process. Then when I try to get back to that post, it can be hard to find. Sometimes it's listed with new thread title; many times it is listed under original thread title or even other a 3rd title. That's the way usenet on aol works. And as I mentioned previously the changes are not consistent between names or with the same name that one used to get access. You can sign out of the newsgroups and get back in as soon as possible, and this change may have taken place. From: morning_dove1@webtv.net (*Annie*) Annie wrote: Sue...I guess I would just have to give back the advice to you that you posted to someone else in this thread..if you don't like what I'm saying, then don't read my posts. Seems simple to me. Su_Texas writes: You posted to a thread I started, mentioned me by name, criticized what I said, basically called me a liar, etc. Plus, you gave some misinformation about the hospital ratings, which could do harm. Since you've chosen to act so badly in the past, I've tried to avoid you. When you confront me, I'll sometimes turn & remind you to back off. Your acting determinedly-dumb over & over, spreading lies & slander, changes nothing. -------------- Annie wrote: As far as the "social position" you think I'm pushing in here...I just stating facts dear..My husband works at a hospital in this area. He's been their electrican for 27+ years. And the hospital _does_ happen to be one of the best cancer treatment centers in Northwest Ohio. This also has not a darn thing to do with any kind of "social position" you might think I have. This is also fact. And what I post, and have posted in the past has been what I've learned while going through this, and in the dealing I've had here with the people that work at this hospital, where I had my surgeries and treatments. Su_Texas writes: [[[Annie's previous post: I only know how it is here, and granted things are different everywhere...but I truly don't believe it's as bad as we're hearing it is...I think if it was truly that bad in Texas, we'd sure be hearing from more then one person. I belong to several message boards {not cancer related} and lots of the people are from different areas of Texas, and have never mentioned anything as bad as what we're reading here. Obviously we all need medical attention at one time or another and none from these boards {the Texans} have ever posted that they've had any of these expierences with any of the hospital or doctors being posted about here. And these are boards where we talk about everything..several are just general discussion boards with no specific title or subject.]]] Annie, basically you're trying to cause trouble, to do harm, to stir up angry/hurt feelings here, to get others to join you in this, ... & are calling me a liar for reporting my experiences. You're trying to harm others, not help. The claim to social position & back-up (in your post) is: belonging to message boards, knowing lots of people there from all over Texas, & never hearing anything bad from them. I'm posting from personal experiences, & you're claiming to know more based on hearsay (on imagined hearsay?) -------------- Annie wrote: I continue to find it ironic that what you're faulting others for doing in their reply's is EXACTLY what you do when you read posts that just don't happen to set well with you, and what your beliefs are... You're allowed to attack and trash what others have posted, and the person personally, and that's okay? Su_Texas writes: When confronted by bullies, & their ugliness & personal attacks repeatedly, ... then I will sometimes respond. Also, I will continue to post my experiences, for others to read & learn from, ... & post what I'm reading & learning about new things, for others to comment on & discuss. You do Not have the power to control what's posted on newsgroups, Annie. And you'll probably continue with your bullying & personal attacks, ... will say how important it is to have blind faith in things (doctors & such), & to not question authority, ... & how important it is to not think or reason. --------------- Annie wrote: I will continue to post when I feel as though you are doing something that could very well be detrimental to others that are coming here for support. It's a fact that you're scaring people with what you're posting. I've had several private emails asking me if what you're posting is true, and that they're scared by what you've posted, and wanted to ask about information privately, rather then post here and have you attack them as well regarding their opinions and beliefs. Sad... Su_Texas writes: I feel very sorry for anyone who would trust you, or would take your advice on anything, ... but that's their choice. I do care about other people, & am doing my best to help them. I'm scared too, & am fighting very hard to get into better health, read & learn, ... & your verbal attacks & dumping, have only wasted time. -------------- Annie wrote: You seem to have all kinds of time and energy to sit at your keyboard ranting and raving about what has happened to you, attacking others for their opinions..post how tired you are from all that has happened to you, and how terrible we are when we post back to the group as far as our opinions about a thread you started. Su_Texas writes: You can't control me, or how I spend my time. And you certainly haven't the right to judge me. What you're doing now, is stalking me Annie. ------------ Annie wrote: Can I add here that you don't exactly have the market cornered on grief and illness here..take a look around this disease is not just about Sue...there are many others here that are hurting, and still try and give support and compassin and they're not doing in in a mean spirited way either. Su_Texas writes: Cancer is a horrible disease that takes a terrible toll. Both good & bad people get it. I'd rather care about & be supportive of the good ones. It's difficult to have & to fight cancer, ... while also having to turn & defend against the repeated attacks, of harm-filled bullies & their eager-enforcers, ... like you & yours, Annie. ---------------- Annie wrote: If I was as worn out as you seem to be telling us you are, then I'd be resting instead of punching my keyboard about things that arein the past and move along and see what you can do to make things better for yourself. And if you're so fired up about what has happened to you and want to change things for yourself, and others then spend your time researching and making calls to the appropriate agencies. The time you spend here ranting about things, and attacking those of us that are posting, would be used in additional phone calls, emails etc. Or forming a news group of yuor own as others have suggested to you. Su_Texas writes: I've been making those phone calls, sending emails & letters, contacting agencies, meeting with people, etc., for many years now. If you could read & process, posts & information, like you claim you can, ... then you'd know that. You can Not control what I do, with whatever time I have left. And you can't ruin that, no matter how ugly you act. -------------- Annie wrote: And last but not least, as far as the way I sign off on my posts...{ref:God bless/Take care} I think you are making yourself look rather foolish as far as trashing me for my beliefs and my willingness to share my thoughts and compassion with the others here that need support, in what I sign off with... Su_Texas writes: You claim many things (basically to be kind, nice, generous, supportive, etc), but then you'll act ugly & mean. & try to do harm. The abuse counselors label this behavior, as being hypocritical, two-faced, schizo.. Since this bad behavior is so common where I grew up, esp. in the church communities, ... then I've labelled it the "Good Christian Woman" Syndrome. However, not all people who claim to be Christians, fit this syndrome. Some are kind & caring. My criticism of you has nothing to do with God or Good. It has to do with your bad behaviors, with your personal attacks, with the harm you try to do, ... & with the time & resources this can waste. I'm hoping it won't be so difficult, to stop your harassment this time, .. your trollish (trouble-making) behaviors. In 2001-2002, while I was trying to get information about breast cancer, surgery, radiation & chemotherapy, & then survive them, ... your vicious verbal attacks, your mean & ugly manner, your need to dump, ... did manage to harm me some. Therefore, I have no liking or use for you, & I'd advise you to leave me alone. --------------- Annie wrote: You might try being a little gentler/kinder in your treatment of others, and you might find you are feeling better about your life and your future. I was told while growing up that when people aren't happy in their own lives they usually do their best to make others around them pretty miserable. The old saying goes "Misery loves company" And as others know from my posts over the last few years I've tried to be helpful to you as well as the others here that have also made suggestions in an effort to help you get some of these things resolved. I truly don't believe you want to move forward..it wouldn't get you the attention your rants are getting for you now. Take care and God bless you. I do sincerely hope you find peace in your life someday....you certainly won't get it acting or posting here as you've been doing for as long as I can remember. annie Ultimately.....we know deeply that the other side of every fear is a freedom. "Courage"...is *fear* that has said it's prayers. Su_Texas writes: If you had read my posts, if you could read & comprehend, ... then you'd know that I do have peace on many levels. I've always done my best & have been rewarded for that. Unlike you, I'm not here to label myself as being good or Christian, or to seek attention or approval for myself. There are many things wrong with the medical industry, & I'm hoping to help bring some attention & positive changes to these. I do hope that more & more people, are able to learn more & better skills, ... for verbally kicking someone like you to the curb, when you attack them, ... which is one reason why I've answered your post. Good Riddance & Goodbye Again, Annie. Susan, Su_Texas my opinions morning_dove1@webtv.net (?*?Annie?*?) wrote in message news:<8943-3FF8FF74-386@storefull-2314.public.lawson.webtv.net>... > Sue...I guess I would just have to give back the advice to you that you > posted to someone else in this thread..if you don't like what I'm [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > in their reply's is EXACTLY what you do when you read posts that just > don't happen to set well with you, and what your beliefs are... annie:: linda bliss here darlin here here and hhip hip horray (sP)? for your speech..i have always admired you and your thoughts..you are such a kind sweet person. i have just ignored that person..is it really worth it?? she thrives on these answers that we are all giving her..i just ignore her posts..it is not worth my time or energy..i am now trying to concentrate onthe femara and hoping the mets go away(wishful thinking) be well there dear sweet annie love linda > You're allowed to attack and trash what others have posted, and the > person personally, and that's okay? [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > > "Courage"...is *fear* that has said it's prayers. My husband works for a hospital in our area. It is one of the largest treatment centers here in Northwest Ohio. They are inspected as far as we know every year, and then recieve their rankings based on how well they're doing in all areas. I have read many of the posts by Sue, and thought perhaps that if we could read something along the lines of how some hospitals are rated it could help the news ones posting to this group, as well as the lurkers that are looking for information. All I did was type "hospital ratings" into a search engine and came up with this site. Once you're on the site, scroll past the paragraph which explains the ratings, and you'll see a list of medical conditions and click on whatever you are looking for, this will take you to a page that will give you the top 17 {I think} in that field and the ratings for hospitals that specialize in those conditions. http://www.usnews.com/usnews/nycu/health/hosptl/tophosp.htm Interestingly enough, when you click onto "cancer" M.D Anderson is ranked 1 in this particular field and Sloan Kettering is after that at #2. This was not posted to inflame, but to inform. I do truly think we do better with more then one point of view, and thought perhaps looking at the other side of the coin was worth the time. HTH's Take care there/God bless annie Ultimately.....we know deeply that the other side of every fear is a freedom. "Courage"...is *fear* that has said it's prayers. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2008 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.