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Medical Forum / Diseases and Disorders / Breast Cancer / January 2004

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Did you say "No" to chemo?

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Jasmine - 19 Dec 2003 18:16 GMT
My mom (49) had a partial mastectomy recently - infiltrating ductal
carcinoma; two small tumors in the right breast.  They removed the sentinel
node to be safe, and it was negative.  Chest X-ray and bone scan were as
well.  Because she already has a lot of health problems, she's thinking of
not bothering with seven months of chemo.  I believe she will go through
radiation, and possible take Tamoxifen for five years or whatever specific
number the oncologists seem to come up with.  She feels what doctors tell
her regarding cancer and her treatment is totally subjective.

Any thoughts?
Thanks,
Jasmine
Kaye301 - 19 Dec 2003 18:36 GMT
I had doubts about chem (past horror stories from vague stories in my memory
and what I had read).  First, I had 3 relatively easy pregnancies, but chemo
was much easier to get through than those.  I also have other health
problems--otosclerosis, a congenital heart disorder, unexplained bilateral leg
swelling, and multiple sclerosis--all before my cancer diagnosis.  
I think it is important to do what is going to give one their best chance.  If
the cancer returns and your mom didn't do chemo, she will most likely always
regret it.  
With a negative sentinel node your mom's  chances for recurrence are, of
course, less.  However, there are some false negatives with negative sentinel
nodes, and a certain percentage (30%) may have positive internal mammary nodes
which were not biopsied.  The fact that two tumors were found would make me a
bit uneasy.  She only had a partial mastectomy.  There is the possibility of
other small micrometastases that have not shown up still being there.
I just read a recent research article which  indicated that even with
mastectomy, overall survival and reduced risk of recurrence are significantly
improved with radiation, too.
Your mom might do very well on no further treatment.  There is no sure way to
tell.  It is a decision that she will need to make--but know that is tough
based on being given only a verbal report of 'statistics.'  My best thoughts
are with your mom on which ever course she decides.  Take care...
Jasmine - 22 Dec 2003 02:14 GMT
Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts, Kaye!!!  She's trying to see a
new oncologist for a second opinion, so we'll see what happens.
Jasmine

> I had doubts about chem (past horror stories from vague stories in my memory
> and what I had read).  First, I had 3 relatively easy pregnancies, but chemo
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> based on being given only a verbal report of 'statistics.'  My best thoughts
> are with your mom on which ever course she decides.  Take care...
Tim Jackson - 19 Dec 2003 19:51 GMT
> My mom (49) had a partial mastectomy recently - infiltrating ductal
> carcinoma; two small tumors in the right breast.  They removed the sentinel
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Any thoughts?

Two tumours and being relatively young would together indicate that chemo
was worth doing.  On the other hand node-negative, ER-positive (and doing
Tamoxifen) and small tumours mean that the risks are fairly low, and it
wouldn't be that much of a loss to omit chemo.

I'm not going to go overboard either way on this one.

I suppose it depends how small the tumours were and what her other health
problems are, and in the end it is a subjective decision.  What she has to
think though, is that if she ends up dying of cancer, will she be able to
accept that the (fairly small) risk was worth taking and that she made the
right decision.

Tim Jackson
Jasmine - 22 Dec 2003 02:20 GMT
Tim, I completely agree.  There's probably going to be that 'what if' if she
decides to skip chemo.  She feels that there's a 'what if' when it comes to
following the said right path as well.  Either way, she has my support.  I
believe if she hadn't been a Registered Nurse, witnessing many terminally
ill patients go through everything to survive cancer, who wound up dying
anyway, she wouldn't feel so strongly about skipping chemo.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts,
Jasmine

[snip]
> Two tumours and being relatively young would together indicate that chemo
> was worth doing.  On the other hand node-negative, ER-positive (and doing
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Tim Jackson
Tony Lima - 20 Dec 2003 15:24 GMT
>My mom (49) had a partial mastectomy recently - infiltrating ductal
>carcinoma; two small tumors in the right breast.  They removed the sentinel
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>number the oncologists seem to come up with.  She feels what doctors tell
>her regarding cancer and her treatment is totally subjective.

She's only 49 -- that's fairly young. I don't know what her
other health problems are, but assuming they're not
particularly life-threatening I think I'd want her to do the
chemo.  (Tamoxifen and the other estrogen suppressors are
easy relative to some other chemos, e.g. adriomyacin.)

Well, you asked for opinions.  BTW, my wife was dx'ed at age
50.  She's currently on her seventh chemo regimen. - Tony

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Jasmine - 22 Dec 2003 02:31 GMT
Thank you for your thoughts, Tony.  When you say your wife is on her 7th
chemo regimen, do you mean her 7th month of it or that she's had to go back
after new tumors were found?

My mom's other health problems aren't life-threatening (chronic back pain,
migraines, Fibromyalgia, degenerative disk disease, osteoarthritis, carpel
tunnel, etc.), but they sure aren't fun.  Like I mentioned to Tim, I think
her past work as an RN has brought her very close to what cancer treatment
entails, so she fears it all the more.

I can't tell my mom that I want her to do the chemo or that I don't.  That's
her decision to make.  If she asked my opinion, which she hasn't (sounds
like her mind has been set for a while, but we gals always have a right to
change our minds LOL), I would recommend she get a second opinion, which
she's looking into already.  We'll have to wait and see what the new
oncologist suggests.
Thanks again,
Jasmine

[snip]
> She's only 49 -- that's fairly young. I don't know what her
> other health problems are, but assuming they're not
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
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Tony Lima - 22 Dec 2003 18:09 GMT
>Thank you for your thoughts, Tony.  When you say your wife is on her 7th
>chemo regimen, do you mean her 7th month of it or that she's had to go back
>after new tumors were found?

This is her seventh different chemotherapy.  She's been on
one chemo or another for most of the last 3.5 years.

>My mom's other health problems aren't life-threatening (chronic back pain,
>migraines, Fibromyalgia, degenerative disk disease, osteoarthritis, carpel
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>Thanks again,
>Jasmine

You mom may not have practiced for a while.  There are many
new drugs that do a pretty good job of suppressing nausea.
(Tell her to check out Zofran for starters.)  Also find out
which chemotherapy the docs are recommending.  Some are
fairly easy on your system (although she won't know for sure
until she starts; individuals respond differently). HTH. -
Tony

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Jasmine - 29 Dec 2003 01:23 GMT
Thanks Tony,
Jasmine

> >Thank you for your thoughts, Tony.  When you say your wife is on her 7th
> >chemo regimen, do you mean her 7th month of it or that she's had to go back
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
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>                                  / \
Richard Faulkner - 22 Dec 2003 22:53 GMT
>I can't tell my mom that I want her to do the chemo or that I don't.  That's
>her decision to make.  If she asked my opinion, which she hasn't (sounds
>like her mind has been set for a while, but we gals always have a right to
>change our minds LOL), I would recommend she get a second opinion, which
>she's looking into already.  We'll have to wait and see what the new
>oncologist suggests.

Jasmine,

When Janet was diagnosed, there were lots of decisions to make over time
and, as she is particularly headstrong, I am always careful when making
suggestions or opinions in all walks of our life.

However, in respect of cancer, I decided that I would never forgive
myself if I had an opinion, or a suggestion, which I withheld, only to
find later that it was one she would have wanted to hear, or if it were
a potential lifesaver.

I told Janet this at an early stage, and put forward all my opinions and
suggestions, no matter what, on the basis that she didnt have to take
advantage of them.

I would give your mother your opinions and suggestions, but make it
clear that she is ultimately free to make her own mind up about things,
and that you will support her in whatever she does.

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Jasmine - 29 Dec 2003 01:24 GMT
Thank you, Richard
Jasmine

> >I can't tell my mom that I want her to do the chemo or that I don't.  That's
> >her decision to make.  If she asked my opinion, which she hasn't (sounds
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
> --
> Richard Faulkner
Alex - 22 Dec 2003 22:55 GMT
> My mom's other health problems aren't life-threatening (chronic back pain,
> migraines, Fibromyalgia, degenerative disk disease, osteoarthritis, carpel
> tunnel, etc.), but they sure aren't fun.  Like I mentioned to Tim, I think
> her past work as an RN has brought her very close to what cancer treatment
> entails, so she fears it all the more.

Cancer treatment has changed quite a bit. I am a RN and only remember
people deathly sick due chemo ....now there are very effective medical
management. IS she working now? Perhaps she could talk to one of her
co workers.
Alex
Jasmine - 29 Dec 2003 01:26 GMT
Thanks Alex.  My mom went on disability about two years ago.  But she still
keeps up her CEUs and has co-workers/friends who still work.  She's just not
one to talk to others for support - not even online.  She's pretty stubborn
;)
Jasmine

> > My mom's other health problems aren't life-threatening (chronic back pain,
> > migraines, Fibromyalgia, degenerative disk disease, osteoarthritis, carpel
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> co workers.
> Alex
Jasmine - 08 Jan 2004 19:20 GMT
Mom saw another oncologist for a second opinion.  This guy was much younger
than the first, actually listened to her, and he was a lot more open minded.
He agreed with her, after going through every sheet of her report with her,
that chemo wasn't necessary, and wouldn't make much of a difference.  He did
suggest radiation, but if she doesn't like it it's her choice whether to
continue or not.

Thank you all for your input,
Jasmine

> My mom (49) had a partial mastectomy recently - infiltrating ductal
> carcinoma; two small tumors in the right breast.  They removed the sentinel
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Thanks,
> Jasmine
Kaye301 - 08 Jan 2004 19:39 GMT
Thanks for the update Jasmine.  I am glad she felt an oncologist she felt
comfortable with.  In regards to cancer, there is no way to predict.
Statistics are on her side, although none of us is a statistic based on an
individual case.  An older dr. does have more experience and has seen 'more,'
which includes both those whose case followed the norm AND the exceptions.
Chances are because of his experience he has seen many more of the exceptions
than a younger oncologist would.  Again, there is no sure way to predict who
will fit the norm and who will be the exception at this point in time.  It is
still a crap shoot, but the odds are definatly in your mom's favor.  
My best thoughts and prayers are with her and hope that cancer will no longer
be an active part of her life ever again.  Take care and {{{hugs}}}
Jasmine - 11 Jan 2004 19:28 GMT
> Thanks for the update Jasmine.  I am glad she felt an oncologist she felt
> comfortable with.  In regards to cancer, there is no way to predict.
> Statistics are on her side, although none of us is a statistic based on an
> individual case.  An older dr. does have more experience and has seen 'more,'
> which includes both those whose case followed the norm AND the exceptions.

You have a point, but the other side of the coin is that an older doctor
could be very set in his ways, as was her first oncologist.

> Chances are because of his experience he has seen many more of the exceptions
> than a younger oncologist would.  Again, there is no sure way to predict who
> will fit the norm and who will be the exception at this point in time.  It is
> still a crap shoot, but the odds are definatly in your mom's favor.

True again :)

> My best thoughts and prayers are with her and hope that cancer will no longer
> be an active part of her life ever again.  Take care and {{{hugs}}}

Thank you so much, Kaye.  You take care as well...
Hugs,
Jasmine
 
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